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anaesthetic said:
Replace cryptocurrency with SPACs or wallstreetbets, and you have the same problem in the stock market. I'm not sure that the existence of pump-and-dump schemes and bubble behavior invalidates a new, emerging sector--emphasis on new. It could fail, or it could not. Nobody knows for sure. Diversify into it, or don't.

I think blockchain technology does have the potential to change finance but probably not in ways that we can imagine. It feels very similar to the advent of the internet. I think the timeline will be similar as well in that the technology will take decades to fully mature. and the current "top" coins may or may not exist at that point.

We will see in a decade. I'm sure someone will resurrect this thread in 2030. Hopefully, I'll be on a beach somewhere and have long forgotten how to do a machine check or a pre-op. One can dream.
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The comparison is flawed because we we have laws and regulators with the force of law behind them to curtail that behavior in the stock market. You can’t just list a stock and have access to 8-9 figure sums of investment money based on a theoretical but as of yet unused form of secure transactions for adult entertainers with the sophomoric name cum rockets because it will go to the moon…

Elon musk got fined 20 million by the SEC for his Twitter nonsense about taking Tesla private that drove the stock price up but all his Bitcoin tweeting bull**** goes unpunished because it isn’t illegal to manipulate it.
 
dr doze said:
Agree that the nations with volatile currencies will adopt crypto. Or at least lots of their citizens and small businesses will. But an US or EU person or buyer is going to have to take the step of converting $ or Euros to crypto and back to $ or Euros. What is the compelling incentive to do so? Especially given the volatility. In simple words how will this save me or a corporation time or money? Still trying to figure this out.
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Just for clarification, the currency of El Salvador is the US dollar (like Ecuador Panama and a few other central and South American countries). The expansion of the money supply (money printing) has led to expected inflation (if it is transitory, we will see). These nations that have the US dollar as the official currency are affected moreso than Americans and they can’t handle a 500% increase in lumber (even if temporary). The effect of inflation affects then worse than us.

Not sure if making bitcoin legal tender is the solution, but they are exploring options at breaking away from a currrency which they have no say in the monetary policy. At least with bitcoin they know it.

Addendum:

And a small surf town in El Salvador has been using bitcoin for a few years. It started out with just a a few merchants and a way to get the youth out of gang life, and has now expanded to just about everyone in the community utilizing Bitcoin via the second layer of BTC called lightning (almost instantaneous settlement). Google bitcoin beach and El Salvador if you’re interested.
 
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Proof of steak:

Unknown-2.jpeg
 
Direct Laryngoscopy said:
Paraguay in a race for second place to make Bitcoin official currency

If this bill passes, Paraguay will be the second nation to adopt bitcoin as legal tender. Things really happen fast. I predict once we get to 5 or so nations, but also a different continent (Africa is my guess), you’ll see rapid global adoption as Bitcoin as the base of internet money.
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There actually was some Bitcoin news from Africa today -

South African brothers disappear along with $3.6 billion in Bitcoin

🙂
 
Just got back from a decent bike ride w/ a fellow partner in the group…

682FC50A-D0D2-4FC2-8E6F-490CDFE2CD9C.jpeg



Funny part of the ride conversation was my partner trying to convince me to buy 100k of etherium because it’s better than bitcoin. 😂🤷🏽‍♂️

🧐

Still curious tho…
 
sevoflurane said:
Just got back from a decent bike ride w/ a fellow partner in the group…

View attachment 339441


Funny part of the ride conversation was my partner trying to convince me to buy 100k of etherium because it’s better than bitcoin. 😂🤷🏽‍♂️

🧐

Still curious tho…
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haha beautiful

One of my partners also does these bike rides with his son. Looks amazing
 
Climbed above Marlette lake in the foreground. Tahoe in the background.

But that etherium…. 😂
 

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Direct Laryngoscopy said:
Paraguay in a race for second place to make Bitcoin official currency

If this bill passes, Paraguay will be the second nation to adopt bitcoin as legal tender. Things really happen fast. I predict once we get to 5 or so nations, but also a different continent (Africa is my guess), you’ll see rapid global adoption as Bitcoin as the base of internet money.
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Well, maybe not so much ...

www.reuters.com

Is Paraguay set to make bitcoin legal tender? Don't bet on it

In the wake of El Salvador's dramatic move to make bitcoin a legal tender, a world first, the internet has been buzzing with rumors that another Latin American country may be set to follow in its footsteps: Paraguay.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Actually quite the opposite of the original report - the guy is presenting "a bill to regulate cryptocurrencies, not make them legal tender."

Also, the guy is a member of a "political party with a total of four seats in Congress" ...
 
Link to “The B Word” with Elon Musk, Jack Dorsey, and Cathie Wood. Apparently if you’re a billionaire, you can wear a t-shirt when you feel like it.

 
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GassYous said:
Opentable is also down, my secretary couldn't make my michelin star restaurant reservation

I was able to get into fidelity right now though thank goodness
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Is this your secretary or your “secretary” that’s making your reservation for her or your SO?
 
GassYous said:
Opentable is also down, my secretary couldn't make my michelin star restaurant reservation

I was able to get into fidelity right now though thank goodness
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Nvm…they’re all back up. I was just being paranoid. Weird coincidence.
 
bitcoinist.com

How Bitcoin Has Boosted MicroStrategy's Brand by 100x, CEO Reveals

In an interview, Michael Saylor said that Bitcoin has “done wonders” for the MicroStrategy brand elevating it “by a factor of 100”.
bitcoinist.com bitcoinist.com


“The CEO of MicroStrategy will stick to the plan that has worked out for the company, so far, taking on debt to buy BTC. Data from Bitcoin Treasuries indicates that MacroStrategy, the entity created by MicroStrategy to hold their BTC, has around $4 billion or 105,084 BTC.

The car manufacturer led by Elon Musk, Tesla, holds over 40,000 BTC or $1,6 billion, followed by the Jack Dorsey-led Square with 8,027 BTC or $220 million. In total, the public companies that have invested in Bitcoin hold over 7% of the cryptocurrency’s total supply.”
 
sevoflurane said:
Just got back from a decent bike ride w/ a fellow partner in the group…

View attachment 339441


Funny part of the ride conversation was my partner trying to convince me to buy 100k of etherium because it’s better than bitcoin. 😂🤷🏽‍♂️

🧐

Still curious tho…
Click to expand...

Your partner is right. Did you buy? ETH was 1800-1900 the day you posted this, now it's 3150 headed towards 4k.

If anyone would like to join our discord please PM me!
 
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Therefore, ETC will likely rise past $7,000 in the next ten years​

As seen in the table below, if the base layer only achieves 50% of the value of gold in ten years, then Bitcoin will be worth $3 trillion or around $143,000 per BTC, and Ethereum Classic $1.5 trillion or around $7,100 per ETC.

Bitcoin and Ethereum Classic vs Gold in the next ten years.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Why is Ethereum better than Bitcoin? What is Ethereum 2.0? I have been reading the trend is towards buying Ethereum over Bitcoin.
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I only know the basics but from what I understand, BTC is the original so it's more popular but it's more of a currency like digital gold. There is really no utility and it takes a massive amount of electricity to mine which is bad for the environment - this was Elon's excuse for Tesla not accepting BTC a few months ago. In order to verify new transactions, add them to the blockchain, and create new tokens - BTC uses proof of work which is outdated and energy intensive.

ETH is an open source network that developers can use for decentralized finance, smart contracts, and new applications on the blockchain. Smart contracts are secure transactions that do not need the help of a third party like VISA, PAYPAL or a lawyer. You may have heard of non fungible tokens (NFTs) such as NBA Top Shots which are digital collectibles, these are used on the ETH network. There are basically four "network" alt coins and they are ETH, ADA, DOT and SOL. ETH is far and away the most widely used. Smaller alt coins such as MATIC, ONE, ZIL are ETH scaling coins which increase transaction speed.

The main flaw with ETH is the high fees due to network congestion. During May when all the ****coins were mooning, ETH fees were absurd. ETH 2.0 will make it far more energy efficient (99.9% less) by using proof of stake vs proof of work. This will decrease the fees significantly. The recent EIP 1559 upgrade increased transaction speed, makes fees predictable and "burns" a set amount of ETH helping to keep the supply deflationary.

Developers consider ETH to be the internet 2.0 and compare it to buying MSFT in the 80s. This has the potential to disrupt the current world banking system, so you can see why politicians and governments are trying to shut it down.

The average person does not know any of this which is why BTC is still king. For the most part, ETH still follows BTC although there were some moments where it looked like ETH was decoupling from BTC. In a few years most people expect ETH to surpass BTC - "the flippening". I have a few very smart software engineers who work for FAANG companies and the ones who do not invest in crypto admit that ETH does have actual utility.

Cocomelon knows far more than me, too bad he is banned here but if you want to PM me I can invite you to our group chat on discord.

TLDR; if BTC is a calculator then ETH is an iPhone.
 
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BLADEMDA said:
Why is Ethereum better than Bitcoin? What is Ethereum 2.0? I have been reading the trend is towards buying Ethereum over Bitcoin.
Click to expand...

Ethereum is the baselayer that the vast majority of blockchain applications, and smart contracts, are, and will be, built on. It has the network effect. While other chains may have aspects that are superior, another blockchain replacing ETH, at this point, would be a bit like another operating system trying to replace Windows in the 90's. The chances are not zero, but they are pretty damn close to it.

Ethereum is currently a proof-of-work blockchain, that is transitioning to a proof-of-stake chain with ETH 2.0. Part of the transition is adding in things like sharding that increases the scalability, allowing for more transactions per second. There is more to it than that, but that is the basic idea.

BTC will continue on as a store of value. It won't, and shouldn't, ever be a block chain to support applications. BTC is like gold. ETH is like the internet. Very different things. Both are valuable in their own, different ways.

ETC is not Ethereum. It is Ethereum classic. It is basically an orphan chain at this point. I wouldn't touch it as it does not offer superior risk adjusted returns to BTC, ETH, DOT, and other currencies.

Ethereum still has another 10x in this current bull market, likely ending sometime in 2022. Bitcoin only has another 3x to 4x tops. DOT & KSM probably have a bit more than a 10x, but are slightly riskier. CEL, SNX, and AAVE are even higher risk plays that could return substantially more. 5% plays in each can quickly grow to top 3 holdings if your timing is good. HEX is unique, and buying PLS, when I did, is potentially like buying BNB or ETH on day 1. The Covid crash was a great time to buy, and all of my ETH was bought at under $1,000.

I expect ETH market cap to temporarily top BTC in the next 6 months, at which time I will flip a lot of my ETH back to BTC. I will reflip after ETH dips back below and stabilizes.

My current portfolio includes
ETH - BTC - CEL - SNX - AAVE - DOT - KSM - HEX - PLS (when it is released) - LINK - UNI - LTC - SRM

I'm considering adding some positions in FTT and SOL, and will buy equity in Celsius at their Round B equity offering.
 
I agree with most of what you wrote here except that I don't belive that the sharding in ETH 2.0 will do much to reduce gas fees. It is amazing how many people thought that EIP-1559 would do this. It never was about reducing gas fees, and if anything will increase them by making ETH less inflationary, and thus more expensive.

For cheaper gas, we are going to have to look to the L2 solutions. Optimism and Arbitrum.
 
periopdoc said:
Ethereum still has another 10x in this current bull market, likely ending sometime in 2022.
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You think ETH will be 30k by next year?? It hasn't even tested it's all time high of 4362 yet. I was thinking it would get there in like 2030.
 
It all depends on how long this bull market lasts. We probably need it to extend late summer to hit that 30k, but the dip over the last few months opens the door to an extended cycle that should last through at least mid summer.

Without EIP 1559, I think ETH would have hit 20k. With it, ETH can hit 30k next year.

There are still some very smart bears calling for 10k BTC this year, and the technical case for 10k in September is pretty strong. If that happens, I will back the dump truck up. The most connected people I know believe that we have clear sailing from here to 100k.
 
periopdoc said:
It all depends on how long this bull market lasts. We probably need it to extend late summer to hit that 30k, but the dip over the last few months opens the door to an extended cycle that should last through at least mid summer.

Without EIP 1559, I think ETH would have hit 20k. With it, ETH can hit 30k next year.

There are still some very smart bears calling for 10k BTC this year, and the technical case for 10k in September is pretty strong. If that happens, I will back the dump truck up. The most connected people I know believe that we have clear sailing from here to 100k.
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How do you value ETH at $30,000? Wouldn't that market cap exceed Gold? Bitcoin at $100K would have a smaller overall valuation than ETH at $30K.

It seems like to me that those who don't trade around their positions could lose a lot of money. I still regret not selling some Bitcoin at $60K. Wouldn't you want to be a seller at $20K ETH not a buyer? 15 months ago ETH was $300 not $3,000.
 
At 30k, ETH will have a market cap of about 3.3 trillion, compared to golds current market cap of 11 trillion. (when adjusting for the EIP-1559 burn)

I do expect the market cap of all crypto to exceed the market cap of gold during this bull market. It will fall well below it in the next bear market.

A 3.3 trillion market cap for BTC would be $175k which is only a 3.8x from here. I tend to think that BTC will retain a slight edge in market cap, so a 200k target is reasonable.

We could see a scenario where BTC really takes over dominance, and market cap, from ETH and we end up with 240k BTC (a 5x) and 20k ETH (a 6.6x)

Don't put all your eggs in one basket, but either basket will pay well.

This all assumes the bull market lasts into mid next year.

I'm pretty bad at taking profits. I had upside targets of 55k BTC and 4k ETH for the spring runup. 30k and 1800 was a predictable dip, but at too low a probability for me to take the risk of selling. I did pull my principle out, though, so dumped that back in on the lows
 
periopdoc said:
At 30k, ETH will have a market cap of about 3.3 trillion, compared to golds current market cap of 11 trillion. (when adjusting for the EIP-1559 burn)

I do expect the market cap of all crypto to exceed the market cap of gold during this bull market. It will fall well below it in the next bear market.

A 3.3 trillion market cap for BTC would be $175k which is only a 3.8x from here. I tend to think that BTC will retain a slight edge in market cap, so a 200k target is reasonable.

We could see a scenario where BTC really takes over dominance, and market cap, from ETH and we end up with 240k BTC (a 5x) and 20k ETH (a 6.6x)

Don't put all your eggs in one basket, but either basket will pay well.

This all assumes the bull market lasts into mid next year.

I'm pretty bad at taking profits. I had upside targets of 55k BTC and 4k ETH for the spring runup. 30k and 1800 was a predictable dip, but at too low a probability for me to take the risk of selling. I did pull my principle out, though, so dumped that back in on the lows
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I took gold 2500-3000 years to obtain a market cap of 11 trillion. In just 2 decades the combined Crypto market could equal the value of all the gold for the past 2500 years? If the idea behind Bitcoin is "digital gold" then the real thing should be going up in value as well. That just isn't the case as the price of gold has increased maybe 5% per year the past few years. Clearly, the price of Crypto has no relationship to the price of Gold.
 
1628553639963.png


POD has moved to a whole new level of trading. Crypto is multiples more volatile than any other asset class in existence. If POD is correct he will make multiple millions from a rather small investment in Crypto.
 
POD or any experience crypto trader, do you use Coinbase pro to trade crypto?

if I wanted to buy into that new coin POD mentioned how would I go about it? I have a Coinbase pro account so I’m familiar with the big boys of crypto but no so much with small cap coins.
 
Two weeks ago, the chartists had me convinced that we would see BTC 12-15k and ETH 1k-1200 by this winter. Now I see people saying ETH 10k by end of year again. Sentiment changes quickly.

I have 23 ETH staked at a high average of around 2830 so I'll be happy either way. My plan was to save up cash to load up in winter. I probably won't add anymore crypto unless I can get DOT around 10, ADA around 1.00, MATIC around 0.80 and KSM around 100. If ETH somehow goes to 30k instead then I'll sell if ETH 2.0 is out by then.
 
I'm only lightly invested in BTC and ETC, 15kish spread 70/30 between the two on coinbase. Looking to even that up soon.

Sadly don't feel educated enough to make a play on any of the new stuff mentioned above. Have some reading to do!
 
BLADEMDA said:
I took gold 2500-3000 years to obtain a market cap of 11 trillion. In just 2 decades the combined Crypto market could equal the value of all the gold for the past 2500 years? If the idea behind Bitcoin is "digital gold" then the real thing should be going up in value as well. That just isn't the case as the price of gold has increased maybe 5% per year the past few years. Clearly, the price of Crypto has no relationship to the price of Gold.
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I only mention gold because you asked about the possibility of the ETH market cap exceeding gold market cap.

Gold is a mature asset, which is heavily manipulated by institutions and governments. It has been that way since before the dawning of the common era. Perhaps it did have meteoric rises in value, prior to its adoption as currency, but that would be in the time of pre-recorded history.

BTC is comparatively immature, and is only now seeing adoption as official currency. It behaves much like that hot new stock that is in price discovery mode. Eventually, the volatility dampens to correlate to the larger market. Centuries from now, when value is no longer measured in USD, Bitcoin, or whatever digital currency supersede's it, will become more centralized and manipulated, and the volatility will correlate more closely with the movements of gold.

I onboard my taxable account into Coinbase Pro, and I use Kraken to onboard my Roth and traditional 401k funds. For some reason, it is just easier to use Kraken for corporate account, and Coinbase for personal account, onboarding. Kraken has made some improvements for personal accounts recently.

Once I have onboarded, I do almost all of my trades on DEXs like 1inch and Uniswap, but I don't trade much. I hate short-term cap gains tax. I do not leave anything on the exchanges, except for the DOT and KSM that I stake on Kraken. As we approach the end of the bull market, I will remove those coins as well. You simply cannot trust the exchanges to have the necessary liquidity during times of high demand. I have a large portion of my portfolio on deposit with Celsius, and in cold storage. My key phrases are split up and stored in multiple locations. You need to access three of the five different locations to recompile the keys.

Crypto offers the volatility of futures and options, with the protections of spot trading. You don't get liquidated. (well, you can trade leveraged, but why?) Nobody who has held Bitcoin for 3 or more years has ever lost money. Sure, Bitcoin drops 80% on the regular. Who cares? It then goes up 5x from there. Unlike equities, it still follows traditional technical analysis. This is probably the last bull market before their is enough centralization and institutional ****ery to change that. Maybe we get one more bull market before that happens.

Small investments can yield massive returns, and grow to top positions in your overall portfolio. Why wouldn't we risk 10% of our retirements into a Roth account. In five to ten years, it will dwarf the rest of our accounts, even if we screw up and buy during the upper 3rd of the bull market.
 
Shimmy8 said:
I'm only lightly invested in BTC and ETC, 15kish spread 70/30 between the two on coinbase. Looking to even that up soon.

Sadly don't feel educated enough to make a play on any of the new stuff mentioned above. Have some reading to do!
Click to expand...

BTC and ETH are all you really need to start. Everything else is high risk/high reward. ADA may be third but that is speculative too, as mentioned before it's a better network than ETH but there is not much adoption. In ten years, BTC and ETH will be around but who knows about the rest.
 
mentos said:
Two weeks ago, the chartists had me convinced that we would see BTC 12-15k and ETH 1k-1200 by this winter. Now I see people saying ETH 10k by end of year again. Sentiment changes quickly.

I have 23 ETH staked at a high average of around 2830 so I'll be happy either way. My plan was to save up cash to load up in winter. I probably won't add anymore crypto unless I can get DOT around 10, ADA around 1.00, MATIC around 0.80 and KSM around 100. If ETH somehow goes to 30k instead then I'll sell if ETH 2.0 is out by then.
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Get better chartists. A good chartist should give you rough probabilities to go with the possibilities. Anyone who says Bitcoin will definitively do this or that, should be avoided.

Could BTC have gone to 12-15? Yes. The probability, when BTC was 60k, was likely in the 0.25 to 0.5% range. The probability of 30's was only in the 5% range. ETH 1200 was probably closer to 15%

80% drops in BTC happen frequently, and that would have been in the 12-15 range, but then it 5x's from there. You only lose if you trade with leverage, or sell on the drop. Just hold through.

Only put in what you can afford to lose. At our income level, you don't need to put in more than that to accumulate life-changing wealth.
 
periopdoc said:
Get better chartists. A good chartist should give you rough probabilities to go with the possibilities. Anyone who says Bitcoin will definitively do this or that, should be avoided.

Could BTC have gone to 12-15? Yes. The probability, when BTC was 60k, was likely in the 0.25 to 0.5% range. The probability of 30's was only in the 5% range. ETH 1200 was probably closer to 15%

80% drops in BTC happen frequently, and that would have been in the 12-15 range, but then it 5x's from there. You only lose if you trade with leverage, or sell on the drop. Just hold through.

Only put in what you can afford to lose. At our income level, you don't need to put in more than that to accumulate life-changing wealth.
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2 questions

1. Why can't I use the cold storage on Coinbase? They guarantee its safety

2. How much money are you talking about for Crypto? $400K in today's Crypto values? $600K? I am referencing what you are "willing to lose."

Is Coinbase safe? Coinbase uses extensive security measures to protect your privacy and your crypto assets. Ninety-eight percent of customer funds are stored in offline cold storage, and the company maintains insurance to protect against loss.Jun 15, 2021
 
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