Becoming a doctor for the money?

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green45

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Im currently an engineering undergrad (ChemE), and while i like my classes and my experiences working in industry, i cant help but wish i had more potential for making money. I think I would like being a doctor, I like to help people and all that stuff, but I really think i just like engineering more. What are your thougts on becoming a doctor primarily for the money - is it worth it? Thanks!

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I'm sure many disagree, but I think this is a good and relevant question. I don't think you should go into a profession because you can make money...especially one that requires years and years of school and training. I do, however, think it's acceptable if you find some balance in your decision meaning if you ARE sincerely interested in medicine then it's not a terrible idea to consider it despite the fact that you like engineering more. I have tangential interests as well ( being a college prof, ethics, public health)...but I know these things don't have the potential to make much money. No one should judge you for wanting to make money. I just think you do need to want to become a physician or your future quality of life will not override the inevitability that you will be miserbale in a career you didn't really want. You will spend many more hours being a doctor than you will spending your money! just my thoughts
 
green45 said:
Im currently an engineering undergrad (ChemE), and while i like my classes and my experiences working in industry, i cant help but wish i had more potential for making money. I think I would like being a doctor, I like to help people and all that stuff, but I really think i just like engineering more. What are your thougts on becoming a doctor primarily for the money - is it worth it? Thanks!


I had the same thoughts as you a couple months ago. I'm also chemE, will be graduating in May. I've decided to pursue the research aspect of MD/PhD. I've been working in a lab doing research on campus for the past 3 years and absolutely love it. I'm not sure what the difference in pay is b/w a MD/PhD vs. just an MD, I would guess that MD/PhD gets paid worse, but definitely more than BS in chemE. That's something you might want to consider.
 
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I agree about the previous stuff about using search before posting, but it's also kinda silly to keep on reviving the same old topic from 3 years ago that's 15 pages long. Maybe this is a parody thread? :)

If it's money you want then I believe that the MD route is not the way for you to go. I think if you look at the richest people around, you'll notice they are NOT practicing doctors. What you want is business. Maybe even business school.
If you are prepared to accept a practicing doc's lifestyle which is arguably comfortable, but not filthy rich then go to med school.



green45 said:
Im currently an engineering undergrad (ChemE), and while i like my classes and my experiences working in industry, i cant help but wish i had more potential for making money. I think I would like being a doctor, I like to help people and all that stuff, but I really think i just like engineering more. What are your thougts on becoming a doctor primarily for the money - is it worth it? Thanks!
 
Die horsey, Die!

deadhorse.gif
 
green45 said:
Im currently an engineering undergrad (ChemE), and while i like my classes and my experiences working in industry, i cant help but wish i had more potential for making money. I think I would like being a doctor, I like to help people and all that stuff, but I really think i just like engineering more. What are your thougts on becoming a doctor primarily for the money - is it worth it? Thanks!


You are better off creating your own engineering business, if you want money and nothing else out of medicine.
 
sunnyjohn said:
Die horsey, Die!

deadhorse.gif


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D

Oh BTW, I LOVE THE AVATAR!!!!!!!!!! ME = Cat lover!!!!! :D
 
green45 said:
Im currently an engineering undergrad (ChemE), and while i like my classes and my experiences working in industry, i cant help but wish i had more potential for making money. I think I would like being a doctor, I like to help people and all that stuff, but I really think i just like engineering more. What are your thougts on becoming a doctor primarily for the money - is it worth it? Thanks!

I think you should go for it, just as long as (1) the quality of care given to a patient doesn't correlate with their income, (2) you do your job to the best of your ability.
 
gujuDoc said:
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D

Oh BTW, I LOVE THE AVATAR!!!!!!!!!! ME = Cat lover!!!!! :D
Yep, I love cats too.

My own cat Wysiwyg is sitting on my computer desk napping as I type this. :p

I want to get another one ASAP.

Who else Liek cats, Dogs, hamsters, ferrets, bunny rabbits, fishies? Post pics of your pets!

Yes, I am trying to hijack this thread.
 
green45 said:
What are your thougts on becoming a doctor primarily for the money - is it worth it? Thanks!


Don't become a doctor primarily for the money. Medicine requires far too many sacrifices - consider that if you enter medical school at 23, you won't be a practicing physician until at least 30, possibly until 33 or 34, and you won't be a highly paid physician until at least three years post-residency. So if you want to be an orthopedic surgeon, you won't be making loads of cash until 36. That's after at least nine years of training, which is certain to be physically, mentally, and emotionally draining. Other careers paths are draining as well, but they usually don't require you to make life and death decisions at the end of a 16 hour shift.
Make sure that you do a few things before you decide on medicine; first, volunteer in a hospital (hopefully an Intensive Care Unit) to determine if you can handle working with sick people. Many people underestimate the importance of this - it's not easy dealing with grouchy, demanding people with many medical problems, who you may or may not be able to help. Second, shadow a physician (preferably two or three), and as you shadow this doc, talk to him/her and his/her partners about their thoughts on medicine and their jobs. I heard nothing but negative opinions on the future of medicine from people until I shadowed an ER doc and talked to him and his colleagues about medicine - four of the five doctors (an orthopedist, two trauma surgeons, and two ER docs) encouraged my medical aspirations and would enter medicine again if they were recent college graduates. One of the other doctors, however, hated medicine - not because of what he could do, but because of what he cannot do for the multitude of uninsured patients that he can't help, along with the boatload of paperwork that drags down every shift (among other issues). Third, before you decide on medicine, look at other careers, both in and outside of the health field. Do you like science and working with people, want to make a lot of money, but aren't wedded to the idea of becoming a physician? Become an orthodontist. Those guys are given money machines as soon as they graduate. Also read about other careers, and maybe take a "what type of job should I get" test. It won't pinpoint what type of career path you should take in the future, but it may help you think about what you want in life and how should go about getting it.
Good luck, and keep in mind that medicine isn't worth it simply for the money; make sure their are other reasons that you want to be a physician other than the paycheck (which in the long run will probably not be as big as you thought it would be). :)
 
Hi Pete!
My cat Skid is currently fighting with my roommate's cat, "Mon Petit Choux Choux". (We call her Shoes.)
 
I don't know many people who become doctors for the debt. I think money, prestige, and/or power is a part of all of our decisions, whether or not we choose to admit it.
 
Megboo said:
A picture of our cat, Pete is attached.
Pete looks like quite a charmer! :D
 
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I don't mean to prolong multiples of this thread, but I will pass along the advice every single physician has given me when I have ever mentioned an intention to apply to medical school:

If there is anything else you could see yourself doing happily and successfully, do it instead.
 
SanDiegoSOD said:
Don't become a doctor primarily for the money. Medicine requires far too many sacrifices - consider that if you enter medical school at 23, you won't be a practicing physician until at least 30, possibly until 33 or 34, and you won't be a highly paid physician until at least three years post-residency. So if you want to be an orthopedic surgeon, you won't be making loads of cash until 36. That's after at least nine years of training, which is certain to be physically, mentally, and emotionally draining. Other careers paths are draining as well, but they usually don't require you to make life and death decisions at the end of a 16 hour shift.
Make sure that you do a few things before you decide on medicine; first, volunteer in a hospital (hopefully an Intensive Care Unit) to determine if you can handle working with sick people. Many people underestimate the importance of this - it's not easy dealing with grouchy, demanding people with many medical problems, who you may or may not be able to help. Second, shadow a physician (preferably two or three), and as you shadow this doc, talk to him/her and his/her partners about their thoughts on medicine and their jobs. I heard nothing but negative opinions on the future of medicine from people until I shadowed an ER doc and talked to him and his colleagues about medicine - four of the five doctors (an orthopedist, two trauma surgeons, and two ER docs) encouraged my medical aspirations and would enter medicine again if they were recent college graduates. One of the other doctors, however, hated medicine - not because of what he could do, but because of what he cannot do for the multitude of uninsured patients that he can't help, along with the boatload of paperwork that drags down every shift (among other issues). Third, before you decide on medicine, look at other careers, both in and outside of the health field. Do you like science and working with people, want to make a lot of money, but aren't wedded to the idea of becoming a physician? Become an orthodontist. Those guys are given money machines as soon as they graduate. Also read about other careers, and maybe take a "what type of job should I get" test. It won't pinpoint what type of career path you should take in the future, but it may help you think about what you want in life and how should go about getting it.
Good luck, and keep in mind that medicine isn't worth it simply for the money; make sure their are other reasons that you want to be a physician other than the paycheck (which in the long run will probably not be as big as you thought it would be). :)
Great F...ing post. Most SDNers should be required to read this before they go on posting: my chances, I hate URMs, mcat scores and all that premed nonsense threads that I see constantly.
 
seilienne said:
Hi Pete!
My cat Skid is currently fighting with my roommate's cat, "Mon Petit Choux Choux". (We call her Shoes.)
Poor Shoes!
 
I second dentistry. The life style is better and the money comes in after four years of dental school.
 
I blame the French. :D
 
CTSballer11 said:
I second dentistry. The life style is better and the money comes in after four years of dental school.


Actually, I think Pharmacy is the way to go if you are going to do it for the money. With dentistry, you still need to know how to interact with patients properly. With pharmacy, you don't have patient care to deal with.
 
gujuDoc said:
Actually, I think Pharmacy is the way to go if you are going to do it for the money. With dentistry, you still need to know how to interact with patients properly. With pharmacy, you don't have patient care to deal with.

Okay, pharmacy ? In that case I blame Canada! Those d@#$ cheap drugs!
:mad:
 
gujuDoc said:
Actually, I think Pharmacy is the way to go if you are going to do it for the money. With dentistry, you still need to know how to interact with patients properly. With pharmacy, you don't have patient care to deal with.

Sure. If someone is choosing between med and dental school, they had better have some social skills. If you can get over how boring teeth are, you will be making some big time $$$$. :D
 
I got my cat from Human society too. She was a gift from my fiance and the best gift I ever got. :)

SDNers, ADOPT A SHELTER KITTY OR PUPPY!

You can put it in you Personal statement. :D
 
I really can't imagine myself being satisfied as a dentist, orthodontist, pharmacist, optometrist, PA, etc., no matter how much money I was pulling in. It's not just the money that comes with being a doctor (although of course the money does matter), it's the authority, prestige, and the unparalleled training and opportunities. When you go to medical school, you don't just get a degree in medicine, you become a doctor. Medical school transforms you like nothing else. Of course at some level it's just a job like any other, but I admit that for me it's more than that...
 
CTSballer11 said:
Sure. If someone is choosing between med and dental school, they had better have some social skills. If you can get over how boring teeth are, you will be making some big time $$$$. :D


Yah, but if you read the original post, it seemed like the poster didn't really care about proper social skills or interacting with people so much as they cared solely for the money. So I think Pharm is the way to go.

But in all seriousness, if they want engineering and good money, the best way to go is to start their own engineering firm and go into the business aspects of engineering. That's where the real money is. Real billionaires got where they did by going into business aspects and becoming leaders in the businesses they created.
 
gujuDoc said:
Actually, I think Pharmacy is the way to go if you are going to do it for the money. With dentistry, you still need to know how to interact with patients properly. With pharmacy, you don't have patient care to deal with.


whats the salary range for pharmacists? How long is pharmacy school, 4 years?
 
Green, you know you could use your engineering background and couple it with an MD to be a very powerful medical researcher? I work in a biomedical engineering lab, most of the grad and phd students are ChemE or ElectiricalE backgrounds. Anyways, we work with children with congenital heart defects, a lot of computational fluid dynamics and experimental flow analysis etc...most of the MDs we work with...are...well, not open to change or ideas that will improve their surgeries they perform on kids. It would be a lot easier to convince them if they understood the engineering side of things. You should consider that, I don't think by becoming an MD you would necessarily discard your engineering background. I think engineering majors are at a much greater advantage going into medical school because of the rigorous course load, work, and research required to succeed, AND still taking pre-med courses that don't necessarily count for anything towards your engineering degree.
 
i think there are easier ways of making a ton of money than become a doctor (like winning the lottery for instance). so don't become a doctor just for the money, especially if you have another career in mind. you'll be miserable. although you probably won't believe me, but making a ton of money is pretty low on my list of reasons why i want to become a doctor. its a plus, but i have other, more important reasons for wanting to be a doctor, and there's nothing else i'd rather do.
 
Dental specialties are difficult to get into just like medical specialties. Beware phrases like why don't you JUST become an orthodontist. That is analogous to why don't you JUST become an ENT/Rads.

Dentistry is not for me but the competitiveness of getting a dental residency shouldn't be overlooked. Also, the variety of medicine vs. dentistry is a major plus for medicine in that pretty much everyone in medicine can find a niche they enjoy.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Dental specialties are difficult to get into just like medical specialties. Beware phrases like why don't you JUST become an orthodontist. That is analogous to why don't you JUST become an ENT/Rads.

Dentistry is not for me but the competitiveness of getting a dental residency shouldn't be overlooked. Also, the variety of medicine vs. dentistry is a major plus for medicine in that pretty much everyone in medicine can find a niche they enjoy.


What he said ^^^

Dentistry is not that different from medical school. In some ways it is more competitive due to the small number of schools available in the country vs. that of the 126 med schoos in the country.

Then we have to take the fact that if a person is doing it for money, and prefers engineering, that's like saying they won't be caring about the actual job they'll be doing at all. In a job like patient care fields, you gotta really like your job to be happy. Money is not everything, but if it is all you care about then go another route.
 
sunnyjohn said:
Okay, pharmacy ? In that case I blame Canada! Those d@#$ cheap drugs!
:mad:

Could we turn this into an anti-canadian healthcare system thread? Anyone? I think that would be nice.
 
morgan said:

"beating a dead horse" (i.e., revisiting the same topics again and again and again...)

But you know, practicing medicine is like that, too -- you see a lot of the same stuff again and again and again...
 
humuhumu said:
"beating a dead horse" (i.e., revisiting the same topics again and again and again...)

But you know, practicing medicine is like that, too -- you see a lot of the same stuff again and again and again...

Although certain topics might be revisited, it is definitely helpful as the SDN is constantly having new member. So, something that was discussed three years ago might be ignored by new members. Besides, every thread offers new insights on the topic. :)
 
green45 said:
Im currently an engineering undergrad (ChemE), and while i like my classes and my experiences working in industry, i cant help but wish i had more potential for making money. I think I would like being a doctor, I like to help people and all that stuff, but I really think i just like engineering more. What are your thougts on becoming a doctor primarily for the money - is it worth it? Thanks!


Do you realize that you will be a doctor for the rest of your life? And how can you treat people, knowing that you are there for the money, instead of being there to help them. If you really wanted to be a Doctor than you would do it even if you didn't get paid.

Peace.
 
green45 said:
Im currently an engineering undergrad (ChemE), and while i like my classes and my experiences working in industry, i cant help but wish i had more potential for making money. I think I would like being a doctor, I like to help people and all that stuff, but I really think i just like engineering more. What are your thougts on becoming a doctor primarily for the money - is it worth it? Thanks!

Don't engineers make 100K a yr? How much do you really want? Well, I'm like you. I'm in it for the money. My plan is to become a doc, buy up some real estate ASAP, and retire to some tropical country. School has been pretty traumatic for me overall, and I need a lifetime to recover.
 
Sicilian said:
Don't engineers make 100K a yr? How much do you really want? Well, I'm like you. I'm in it for the money. My plan is to become a doc, buy up some real estate ASAP, and retire to some tropical country. School has been pretty traumatic for me overall, and I need a lifetime to recover.


That depends on years of experience and field and need. My dad only started making that much in his late 50's a couple years ago. my brother makes half that.
 
namaste said:
I can understand wanting to make money and having the need to help others. But, if we are talking about prestige, you will get prestige in other fields. We have to admit physicians are experts in medicine, but not everything else. You you will gain prestige as a mathematician, seismologist, judge, etc.

Where healthcare is concerned, I think there is prestige in pharmacy. As far as pharmacy goes, I know people that always run to their pharmacist to check out whether or not their physician prescribed the “correct” medications for them. I have heard about this happening on my rotations and know a family that does this on a regular basis. They worry about dosages and receiving prescriptions for medications that conflict with each other.

There are many authority figures not just physicians. Would you contact a physician for information on earth magnetic fields? I think not.
In pharmacy?
Pharmacy has suffered from a self admitted decline in prestige. Check out their forum. Same with optometrists.
They are slowly losing their private practice jobs in favor of supermarket and drive thru positions. Not exactly what I or they would call prestige.
 
namaste said:
I am referring to the knowledge that pharmacists have about their specialty and the public knowing that. I am not referring to the business of pharmacy.
With the business shifting into these type venues, the public is beginning to view pharmacists equal to the teller at the drive thru bank. They essentially perform the same task of taking your order from the vacuum tube and filling the order. The pharmacist and health professionals in general are moving towards minimal patient contact b/c people just want their drugs and want to get out even in FP.

NOTE: I do not share the views of the public. I value pharmacists as a member of the healthcare industry.
 
TO THE OP:
you like medicine and want to make money, then do it. I know that lots of people on this thread have suggested other professions and thats true that other jobs do make good money, but in general practicing physicians make the most money.

starting a business in engineering is probably much harder than starting your own clinic as fp. Although the engineering business has potential in the billions (pppfff yea right! who ever really makes that?) the fp business is guarenteed to make some real $$$ although not millions per year it could make maybe 1/2 a million per year or more. it all depends on how hard you work.

Also someone mentioned buying real estate. Investments really could make you more wealthy. Seriously, think about it. who gets wealthy off of their salary? maybe neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeon with their own business and paris hilton.

Where I live, our land lord rents 10 apts for 2K each month. Thats not bad. He bought this place and let it pay itself with the rent and had some left over, but that took years for the place to pay itself.

So in summary, a MD by your name gives you a better salary and makes it a hell of a lot easier to make more money if you like!

I know engineers can make a lot too but i bet the physician who works 60hrs a week will make more than the engineer working 60hrs a week.

Just do something you enjoy. If you dont like patients that much then your severely limited in medicine to paths like radiology, pathology, and what ever else there might be?
 
goldfish85 said:
starting a business in engineering is probably much harder than starting your own clinic as fp. Although the engineering business has potential in the billions (pppfff yea right! who ever really makes that?) the fp business is guarenteed to make some real $$$ although not millions per year it could make maybe 1/2 a million per year or more. it all depends on how hard you work.


You really have no idea how much family practice doctors make do you.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
In pharmacy?
Pharmacy has suffered from a self admitted decline in prestige. Check out their forum. Same with optometrists.
They are slowly losing their private practice jobs in favor of supermarket and drive thru positions. Not exactly what I or they would call prestige.

I know a guy in pharmacy school at a no name university in the midwest who claims he can make the equivalent salary of a physician ($200k) by seeking work in a pharmaceutical industry or becoming a compounder. I think this is bogus. Wouldn't pharmacists get paid even less than researchers because they lack the research skills? What do PharmD's really do, the only ones I encounter are at the above mentioned check out counter? Is there money to be made?
 
green45 said:
Im currently an engineering undergrad (ChemE), and while i like my classes and my experiences working in industry, i cant help but wish i had more potential for making money. I think I would like being a doctor, I like to help people and all that stuff, but I really think i just like engineering more. What are your thougts on becoming a doctor primarily for the money - is it worth it? Thanks!

Short and simple answer: Hell NO!
If you are just looking for a way to make money talk to Shredder about going into business.
Engineers can make a decent amt of $ too if they consult...so i hear.
 
abraxas said:
You really have no idea how much family practice doctors make do you.

i guess on a salary about 130-150k/yr on national average.. somewhere in that range. but i was talking about a fp owning a business, and i said they could make that much... not really that its a shoe in.

Im not sure if i misinterpreted you... sorry if i did.
 
I know a pharmacist couple - just got out of pharm school and got married. They both work at drugstores like Rite-Aid or Wallgreens and pull in well over a 100k each. They just finished building this massive house in the burbs of Jersey and have more cash and free time than they know what to deal with. That sounds pretty freakin good to me - especially since you consider the fact that they have no call, and no malpractice insurance to deal with. Unless you relish the physician's lifestyle of heavy hours (plus random call), the responsibilty of life or death, and the pain in the ass reams of pprwork and soaring malpractice premiums, I dont know whether medicine for you.
 
amojan99 said:
I know a pharmacist couple - just got out of pharm school and got married. They both work at drugstores like Rite-Aid or Wallgreens and pull in well over a 100k each. They just finished building this massive house in the burbs of Jersey and have more cash and free time than they know what to deal with. That sounds pretty freakin good to me - especially since you consider the fact that they have no call, and no malpractice insurance to deal with. Unless you relish the physician's lifestyle of heavy hours (plus random call), the responsibilty of life or death, and the pain in the ass reams of pprwork and soaring malpractice premiums, I dont know whether medicine for you.


Bravo!!!!!!!! Well stated.
 
I second gujuDoc. Also, keep in mind that med school is expensive and we lose, what, 7-12 years of earning potential while accumulating massive loans (that then accrue interest while we finish our training). While our earning potential is great once we reach that point, we don't reach it for a lot longer than anybody else.
 
amojan99 said:
I know a pharmacist couple - just got out of pharm school and got married. They both work at drugstores like Rite-Aid or Wallgreens and pull in well over a 100k each. They just finished building this massive house in the burbs of Jersey and have more cash and free time than they know what to deal with. That sounds pretty freakin good to me - especially since you consider the fact that they have no call, and no malpractice insurance to deal with. Unless you relish the physician's lifestyle of heavy hours (plus random call), the responsibilty of life or death, and the pain in the ass reams of pprwork and soaring malpractice premiums, I dont know whether medicine for you.

Sure medicine is not the gold mine it once was. The average salary of a physician is still the highest out there.
 
goldfish85 said:
TO THE OP:
you like medicine and want to make money, then do it. I know that lots of people on this thread have suggested other professions and thats true that other jobs do make good money, but in general practicing physicians make the most money.

starting a business in engineering is probably much harder than starting your own clinic as fp. Although the engineering business has potential in the billions (pppfff yea right! who ever really makes that?) the fp business is guarenteed to make some real $$$ although not millions per year it could make maybe 1/2 a million per year or more. it all depends on how hard you work.

Also someone mentioned buying real estate. Investments really could make you more wealthy. Seriously, think about it. who gets wealthy off of their salary? maybe neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeon with their own business and paris hilton.

Where I live, our land lord rents 10 apts for 2K each month. Thats not bad. He bought this place and let it pay itself with the rent and had some left over, but that took years for the place to pay itself.

So in summary, a MD by your name gives you a better salary and makes it a hell of a lot easier to make more money if you like!

I know engineers can make a lot too but i bet the physician who works 60hrs a week will make more than the engineer working 60hrs a week.

Just do something you enjoy. If you dont like patients that much then your severely limited in medicine to paths like radiology, pathology, and what ever else there might be?




Yeah that pretty much sums it up. Although FP physicians dont make anywhere near $500, 000gs a year.

If you do well in med school, score well on the STEP, and match into a decent residency, you have serious monetary potential. Becoming a RAD, anesthesiologist, suregon, opthamologist, ENT, etc all have legit opportunities to make over $450K a year. My cousin is 29 and finishing her residency as an OBGYN, she has med school nearly paid off, and recently got a job offer starting her off @ $295k a year. TO START. I dont know too many 29 year olds that are bringing in that kind of revenue. (btw her mal practiced is paid for)
 
to op:
like people mentioned there are a few opportunities to get a good salary as a physician you just must work. Also residency pays too but its almost an avg. salary. A family friend in IM is in his final years of residency and he just does lots of moonlighting to make up for any needed income. Also, its not like hes poor or anything, hes making an average salary for only 3 yrs then he done with residency but some people make it sound bad when they say 9 years of training dept, mal practice , etc...

its 4 yr of med school then 3-7 ys of training but you get paid an avg salary during this and the mal practice is often paid for by your employer (thats if you choose to be employeed)

One profession which i may get flamed for mentioning is EM docs. they make pretty good money and have decent time off. Also it is not as competitive as dermatoloy/ortho/radiology and the lifestyle supposibly aint so bad. but regardless you must do some soul searching....

for example read this thread...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=1351909&postcount=9

it depends how important money is. surgery would pretty much take up all your time and leave you no life for impressing girls at cocktail parties.
 
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