Becoming more competitive on paper

[Espressso]

Very average/below-average third year DO student, set on applying IM in September (either continue on for cards vs stay as a hospitalist (this is up in the air right now)). Below average boards (S1 ~215, L1 ~515), a mix of passes and high passes thus far on rotations. Haven't had IM yet. Have a few solid generalized LORs.

I'm obviously aware that cards is a research-heavy field but I have zero publications/posters/abstracts/etc thus far. I had a couple stints of basic sci research during undergrad but I'm not too interested in that life anymore tbh. Is there an more efficient way to get publications? Obviously I'm looking to make my application more competitive, and coming from a DO school that has no research footprint, and most preceptors are disinterested in really even having students around, it's been difficult to figure out how to go about this.

Any tips/advice? Right now, my main focus is on Step 2 and level 2, as well as doing really well on my IM rotation. But I'm just at a loss in terms of getting in a position to crank out publications and posters and what not for the upcoming cycle.

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[FutureDoctor5000]

Very average/below-average third year DO student, set on applying IM in September (either continue on for cards vs stay as a hospitalist (this is up in the air right now)). Below average boards (S1 ~215, L1 ~515), a mix of passes and high passes thus far on rotations. Haven't had IM yet. Have a few solid generalized LORs.

I'm obviously aware that cards is a research-heavy field but I have zero publications/posters/abstracts/etc thus far. I had a couple stints of basic sci research during undergrad but I'm not too interested in that life anymore tbh. Is there an more efficient way to get publications? Obviously I'm looking to make my application more competitive, and coming from a DO school that has no research footprint, and most preceptors are disinterested in really even having students around, it's been difficult to figure out how to go about this.

Any tips/advice? Right now, my main focus is on Step 2 and level 2, as well as doing really well on my IM rotation. But I'm just at a loss in terms of getting in a position to crank out publications and posters and what not for the upcoming cycle.

Does your school let you do a research rotation? Do that and atleast write some case reports in the field that you are interested in(i.e. cards). Reach out to large academic centers in the state/area and email every professor that does Cardiology research, especially clinical research and data stuff where you will get you publications, if that doesn't work then do bench research and at least you can put that on your app. You can still prbly match community programs and former AOA programs that have Cardiology fellowships(ie. Largo medical center, Northside medical center in St. Pete etc.) as well as low tier university programs that have cardiology fellowships make sure that you match at a place that has an in house cardiology fellowship and do research in residency to make your self more competitive.

 

[Espressso]

Does your school let you do a research rotation? Do that and atleast write some case reports in the field that you are interested in(i.e. cards). Reach out to large academic centers in the state/area and email every professor that does Cardiology research, especially clinical research and data stuff where you will get you publications, if that doesn't work then do bench research and at least you can put that on your app. You can still prbly match community programs and former AOA programs that have Cardiology fellowships(ie. Largo medical center, Northside medical center in St. Pete etc.) as well as low tier university programs that have cardiology fellowships make sure that you match at a place that has an in house cardiology fellowship and do research in residency to make your self more competitive.

Sorry to bump but I have a new follow-up question.

I was able to get ahold of a big hospital research department that is heavy focused on cards research. They are able to bring in fourth year students to jump on current projects. Although they said only if it's a full month - which is easy to do - but also! if it's closer to the end of their fourth year. Which i mean, takes away from the idea of doing research to get more competitive for ERAS.

On one hand, I understand all research is probably good for you. Especially if I'm looking towards potentially applying for cards fellowship down the line. But on the other hand, this won't really contribute much to my ERAS application for IM programs. The soonest I'd be able to do it is probably after Jan/Feb of 2021 (grad year), so that would be around the time rank lists are being made. But also, this would help me guarantee being able to be back in my home town and home state for fourth year which would be great for me (say, I do two months of research with them for example).

My question is, should I still think about proceeding with this for the back half of my fourth year? And if I don't completely say no now, how do I easily probe them about ensuring I get publications and presentations? I feel like flat out asking them that is rude at best. Any advice on how to go about that?

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Sorry to bump but I have a new follow-up question.

I was able to get ahold of a big hospital research department that is heavy focused on cards research. They are able to bring in fourth year students to jump on current projects. Although they said only if it's a full month - which is easy to do - but also! if it's closer to the end of their fourth year. Which i mean, takes away from the idea of doing research to get more competitive for ERAS.

On one hand, I understand all research is probably good for you. Especially if I'm looking towards potentially applying for cards fellowship down the line. But on the other hand, this won't really contribute much to my ERAS application for IM programs. The soonest I'd be able to do it is probably after Jan/Feb of 2021 (grad year), so that would be around the time rank lists are being made. But also, this would help me guarantee being able to be back in my home town and home state for fourth year which would be great for me (say, I do two months of research with them for example).

My question is, should I still think about proceeding with this for the back half of my fourth year? And if I don't completely say no now, how do I easily probe them about ensuring I get publications and presentations? I feel like flat out asking them that is rude at best. Any advice on how to go about that?

Do it anyway it will look better down the line for Cards plus I don’t think not having any other research will really hinder you too much for lower- mid tier IM programs and community programs that have in house Cardiology fellowships.

 

[AlteredScale]

Sorry to bump but I have a new follow-up question.

I was able to get ahold of a big hospital research department that is heavy focused on cards research. They are able to bring in fourth year students to jump on current projects. Although they said only if it's a full month - which is easy to do - but also! if it's closer to the end of their fourth year. Which i mean, takes away from the idea of doing research to get more competitive for ERAS.

On one hand, I understand all research is probably good for you. Especially if I'm looking towards potentially applying for cards fellowship down the line. But on the other hand, this won't really contribute much to my ERAS application for IM programs. The soonest I'd be able to do it is probably after Jan/Feb of 2021 (grad year), so that would be around the time rank lists are being made. But also, this would help me guarantee being able to be back in my home town and home state for fourth year which would be great for me (say, I do two months of research with them for example).

My question is, should I still think about proceeding with this for the back half of my fourth year? And if I don't completely say no now, how do I easily probe them about ensuring I get publications and presentations? I feel like flat out asking them that is rude at best. Any advice on how to go about that?

The project being done in the end of fourth year won't mean crap for residency application cycle. Sure you can still do it for your future prospects of cards.

Find a case report or chart review to do sooner rather than later if you have no research with you. Contact all your IM contacts (residents, faculty you rotated with) and find something so that you have some output. You need to show to your programs that you will be productive beyond passing your board exams.

 

[risus_sardonicus]

Sorry to bump but I have a new follow-up question.

I was able to get ahold of a big hospital research department that is heavy focused on cards research. They are able to bring in fourth year students to jump on current projects. Although they said only if it's a full month - which is easy to do - but also! if it's closer to the end of their fourth year. Which i mean, takes away from the idea of doing research to get more competitive for ERAS.

On one hand, I understand all research is probably good for you. Especially if I'm looking towards potentially applying for cards fellowship down the line. But on the other hand, this won't really contribute much to my ERAS application for IM programs. The soonest I'd be able to do it is probably after Jan/Feb of 2021 (grad year), so that would be around the time rank lists are being made. But also, this would help me guarantee being able to be back in my home town and home state for fourth year which would be great for me (say, I do two months of research with them for example).

My question is, should I still think about proceeding with this for the back half of my fourth year? And if I don't completely say no now, how do I easily probe them about ensuring I get publications and presentations? I feel like flat out asking them that is rude at best. Any advice on how to go about that?

Bruh the research is meaningless in the grand scheme of what’s vital to your future success. You should focus on destroying step 2, minimum >250. In my honest opinion, I think that’s the most effective way for you to improve your application at this point.


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[AlteredScale]

Bruh the research is meaningless in the grand scheme of what’s vital to your future success. You should focus on destroying step 2, minimum >250. In my honest opinion, I think that’s the most effective way for you to improve your application at this point.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

If you want to do a fellowship, you need to think about doing research. And it's better to get started sooner rather than later because in residency you have 2 years to do stuff and many IM programs discourage any intern from doing research for the first 6 months....so that leaves you with very little time to be productive.

Killing boards should be an expectation for essentially every medical student IMO. But it should be reiterated that research does not "make up" for poor board scores.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Sorry to bump but I have a new follow-up question.

I was able to get ahold of a big hospital research department that is heavy focused on cards research. They are able to bring in fourth year students to jump on current projects. Although they said only if it's a full month - which is easy to do - but also! if it's closer to the end of their fourth year. Which i mean, takes away from the idea of doing research to get more competitive for ERAS.

On one hand, I understand all research is probably good for you. Especially if I'm looking towards potentially applying for cards fellowship down the line. But on the other hand, this won't really contribute much to my ERAS application for IM programs. The soonest I'd be able to do it is probably after Jan/Feb of 2021 (grad year), so that would be around the time rank lists are being made. But also, this would help me guarantee being able to be back in my home town and home state for fourth year which would be great for me (say, I do two months of research with them for example).

My question is, should I still think about proceeding with this for the back half of my fourth year? And if I don't completely say no now, how do I easily probe them about ensuring I get publications and presentations? I feel like flat out asking them that is rude at best. Any advice on how to go about that?

I would know what the research is in and mention it in your application in some way. See if their 4th year starts later than your school. For instance my school started 4th in June, but some places start in July. So if there is that kind of discrepancy maybe you can take advantage.

Either way I still think you go for it even if it is only to help your future self. Take care of the future and the future will take care of the present. That’s a concept that many more people should live by.

 

[Espressso]

The project being done in the end of fourth year won't mean crap for residency application cycle. Sure you can still do it for your future prospects of cards.

Find a case report or chart review to do sooner rather than later if you have no research with you. Contact all your IM contacts (residents, faculty you rotated with) and find something so that you have some output. You need to show to your programs that you will be productive beyond passing your board exams.

Yeah, I'm definitely working on the latter point. And I think the idea of being productive beyond interview season has potential to still help me long term. Thanks for the responses.

Bruh the research is meaningless in the grand scheme of what’s vital to your future success. You should focus on destroying step 2, minimum >250. In my honest opinion, I think that’s the most effective way for you to improve your application at this point.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN

I didn't mean to imply that step 2 isn't the focus. It most definitely is. I'm just curious if being productive, from a research standpoint on the back half of fourth year can still help me if I plan to pursue a research-heavy field such as cards or heme/onc.

I would know what the research is in and mention it in your application in some way. See if their 4th year starts later than your school. For instance my school started 4th in June, but some places start in July. So if there is that kind of discrepancy maybe you can take advantage.

Either way I still think you go for it even if it is only to help your future self. Take care of the future and the future will take care of the present. That’s a concept that many more people should live by.

Yeah, I'm going to try and push it a little to maybe do it sooner than January. But if not, I still think it wouldn't hurt to do 4 weeks of an elective. I get around 12 weeks of elective time, so I have room for it.

 

[AlteredScale]

@AlteredScale Is it possible to send you a DM?

Go for it.