Being forced to work more due to a divorce

[Brigade4Radiant]

So my friend worked about 180-210 hours a month for his wife because she wanted an extravagant lifestyle it broke him which of course working like that would he has been doing this three years

His wife’s attorney is saying that he must work those hours since that is what he’s capable of. Needless to say he can’t go 50/50 custody of his two kids if he works this

He lives in NYC and he says if he works 120 hours he should be left with 2-3k a month

Has this happened to anyone can they really say the extra you worked is now your standard? The wife doesn’t work

This is three years post residency

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[throway134]

So my friend worked about 180-210 hours a month for his wife because she wanted an extravagant lifestyle it broke him which of course working like that would he has been doing this three years

His wife’s attorney is saying that he must work those hours since that is what he’s capable of. Needless to say he can’t go 50/50 custody of his two kids if he works this

He lives in NYC and he says if he works 120 hours he should be left with 2-3k a month

Has this happened to anyone can they really say the extra you worked is now your standard? The wife doesn’t work

This is three years post residency

1. Probably the only person who can really answer this is a divorce attorney specific to both New York and nyc
2. Your opponents attorney != good source of legal advice
3. I doubt anyone can compel you to work, though they may be able to garnish your reduced wages
4. Will depend on a lot of individual factors

Attorneys will say outrageous, obviously untrue things.

In b4 the first reference of #reason 654 not to live in nyc

 

[RustedFox]

Lesson #1 - Don't marry a gold-digging woman.

But for real, I've seen enough buddies go thru enough similar things where the message needs to be sent:

Attention "modern women":
You want an equitable marriage? Want ownership of half of the home? Want half of the decision-making weight?

Cool. Pay half the bills.
Awww... can't do that?
Looks like you don't get a seat at the table.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Jesus Christ.

I have nothing to add, except to warn high earners to have a prenup.

Do not marry the SAHM type. It's a trap. Your friend is about to learn this very expensive lesson.

 

[anonperson]

So my friend worked about 180-210 hours a month for his wife because she wanted an extravagant lifestyle it broke him which of course working like that would he has been doing this three years

His wife’s attorney is saying that he must work those hours since that is what he’s capable of. Needless to say he can’t go 50/50 custody of his two kids if he works this

He lives in NYC and he says if he works 120 hours he should be left with 2-3k a month

Has this happened to anyone can they really say the extra you worked is now your standard? The wife doesn’t work

This is three years post residency

What's his lawyer say?
You can't be forced to work but he will get raked over the coals for child support. Alimony will depend on the length of the marriage.

The courts will determine the amount he has to pay for the above and it will be up to him to keep the money flowing. This is where a good/expensive lawyer can try to keep things reasonable.

But judging from the wife's lawyers rhetoric, it looks like this will be a long and painful process.

Probably cheaper to keep her.

 

[RustedFox]

Jesus Christ.

I have nothing to add, except to warn high earners to have a prenup.

Do not marry the SAHM type. It's a trap. Your friend is about to learn this very expensive lesson.

Pre-nups are largely useless; as there are dozens of ways to invalidate them.

Addendum: It's a shame that this is a reflection of where we have gotten as a society, both in terms of the sanctity of the family unit as well as the attitudes of people who enter into a marriage. Really is.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Pre-nups are largely useless; as there are dozens of ways to invalidate them.

Addendum: It's a shame that this is a reflection of where we have gotten as a society, both in terms of the sanctity of the family unit as well as the attitudes of people who enter into a marriage. Really is.

Depends on state.

There's generally a framework that makes most of them valid however:

1) Both parties have independent council

2) agreement entered well before the planned marriage (several months)

3) no unenforceable clauses (usually things regarding child custody and support)

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

What's his lawyer say?
You can't be forced to work but he will get raked over the coals for child support. Alimony will depend on the length of the marriage.

The courts will determine the amount he has to pay for the above and it will be up to him to keep the money flowing. This is where a good/expensive lawyer can try to keep things reasonable.

But judging from the wife's lawyers rhetoric, it looks like this will be a long and painful process.

Probably cheaper to keep her.

His lawyer says that he has a case where a doctor had to pay alimony on a tune to 18k a month due to the three best years of income out of nine years

He says he will try to argue against it

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

His lawyer says that he has a case where a doctor had to pay alimony on a tune to 18k a month due to the three best years of income out of nine years

He says he will try to argue against it

This is when I leave the country. Or just stop working and move into Mom's basement. Can't garnish wages that don't exist.

 

[throway134]

This is when I leave the country. Or just stop working and move into Mom's basement. Can't garnish wages that don't exist.

Kids are the sticky part of this.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

His lawyer says that he has a case where a doctor had to pay alimony on a tune to 18k a month due to the three best years of income out of nine years

He says he will try to argue against it

Jesus…good luck. And I thought paying $4k/month in child support (which my ex largely appears to be…using to engage in illegal activities) was outrageous.

My experience in family court was so bad that you’d think it was something that happened in a corrupt backwater country, not the USA. The family courts in America are so abysmal that I think I would have seriously reconsidered having kids (or even getting married) if I knew how sideways it could go.

That said: rule #1 of dealing with family court in America is that most of the lawyers are dishonest schmucks. If your friend is hearing stuff like this from his attorney, he likely needs a new attorney. (My first attorney sold me down the river on a horrible dissolution agreement that has taken years of fighting in court to fix properly. If I had dropped that idiot early on, my life would be quite a bit better today.)

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Kids are the sticky part of this.

Nobody should be forced into wage slavery just because they once had children. Parents are entitled to be able to live freely and enjoy their lives also. And what exactly keeps the spouse from getting a job and providing?

 

[DoctwoB]

Depends on state.

There's generally a framework that makes most of them valid however:

1) Both parties have independent council

2) agreement entered well before the planned marriage (several months)

3) no unenforceable clauses (usually things regarding child custody and support)

Also keep in mind. Pre-nup is just that. For Pre Nuptial assets. Mostly just covers assets prior to marriage.

For many docs this doesn't apply, as we are often married in our negative or low net worth years. You can't pre-nup away future child support or alimony.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

False.

A prenup can cover whatever you want it to (except child support).

 

[sylvanthus]

Child support should be enough to reasonably care for the basic needs of the child, not a percent of your income irregardless of how much you make. Can anyone really argue that it costs 18k/month to clothe, feed, house a child? If so, the majority of the country is fuked.

 

[RoyBasch]

This is when I leave the country. Or just stop working and move into Mom's basement. Can't garnish wages that don't exist.

I bet the French Foreign Legion would have need of physicians with emergency medicine experience.

 

[Tenk]

If that happened to me, I would quit my job, take all my assets, dump it into a margin account and gamble it all on options. I’d either become rich enough to not give a damn and split the money 50/50 or go into such crippling debt I’d declare bankruptcy and go to jail.

Both outcomes are better than working 200 hours a month for an ex-wife though so who cares.

 

[allantois]

Jesus…good luck. And I thought paying $4k/month in child support (which my ex largely appears to be…using to engage in illegal activities) was outrageous.

My experience in family court was so bad that you’d think it was something that happened in a corrupt backwater country, not the USA. The family courts in America are so abysmal that I think I would have seriously reconsidered having kids (or even getting married) if I knew how sideways it could go.

That said: rule #1 of dealing with family court in America is that most of the lawyers are dishonest schmucks. If your friend is hearing stuff like this from his attorney, he likely needs a new attorney. (My first attorney sold me down the river on a horrible dissolution agreement that has taken years of fighting in court to fix properly. If I had dropped that idiot early on, my life would be quite a bit better today.)

Our legal system is corrupt and backwater

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Our legal system is corrupt and backwater

The entire country is getting there, too. The quote I heard recently is “America is a third world country in a Gucci belt”. Sounds about right.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

This is when I leave the country. Or just stop working and move into Mom's basement. Can't garnish wages that don't exist.

You’d have to leave the country. Problem with moving into Mom’s basement is that in most states, the family courts can “impute” income on you in these situations. You were a doctor once? To a judge, that means you should be making XYZ dollars, and that’s how much will go into the child support/alimony calculations. Can’t pay that? You go to jail.

 

[Apollyon]

I bet the French Foreign Legion would have need of physicians with emergency medicine experience.

Your throwaway comment bears reflection. La Legion has medics that are Legionnaires, but the medical department and doctors are French Army. It's similar to special forces detachments worldwide. There is battlefield stabilization and transfer to a field hospital or higher.

 

[RustedFox]

Your throwaway comment bears reflection. La Legion has medics that are Legionnaires, but the medical department and doctors are French Army. It's similar to special forces detachments worldwide. There is battlefield stabilization and transfer to a field hospital or higher.

BRO, HOW DO YOU KNOW ALL THIS WEIRD FRENCH STUFF?

 

[RustedFox]

Your throwaway comment bears reflection. La Legion has medics that are Legionnaires, but the medical department and doctors are French Army. It's similar to special forces detachments worldwide. There is battlefield stabilization and transfer to a field hospital or higher.

Swear, when I first joined here and started reading your posts, I thought "Apollyon" was French for like: "I'm appalled at y'all" or something.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

BRO, HOW DO YOU KNOW ALL THIS WEIRD FRENCH STUFF?

I think he was in the FFL and his new identification is “Apollyon” who later emigrated back to the US and went to med school.

Not gonna lie every time I go to France I end up reading about the FFL while waiting for spouse to get ready for dinner or whatnot and it never sounds like a great deal - I don’t think you can truly rebuild your identity nowadays but maybe I’m misremembering

 

[hundreddaysoff]

Many legal horror stories similar to the above in Greenspun et al's book _Real World Divorce_. Confirms that family lawyers are not to be trusted for the most part.

My conclusion from that book is that the system is out to get you and if you find yourself in this position, the only logical thing to do is give up and give the wife and her lawyer whatever they want, even if it means you never see your kids again. In many cases, this will be the least worst option out of several bad options for the kids anyway, in the long run.

Otherwise, I am a poor source for advice since I am a white cloud and (finally!) have a good relationship with my wife. But, AFAICT this was mostly down to luck on my part, and despite me doing a lot of the right things and reading a freaking book about divorce before marrying, things could've just as easily ended in divorce for us in another timeline.

 

[Apollyon]

I think he was in the FFL and his new identification is “Apollyon” who later emigrated back to the US and went to med school.

Not gonna lie every time I go to France I end up reading about the FFL while waiting for spouse to get ready for dinner or whatnot and it never sounds like a great deal - I don’t think you can truly rebuild your identity nowadays but maybe I’m misremembering

Closer than you might think. When I got screwed out of a commission in military college, I seriously considered the FFL. I spoke French (REALLY well back then), and was from a military school. If there was any Internet back then, I would much more likely be now a veteran of La Legion.

Notably, you can enlist under any name, but they do run photos through an Interpol database. They won't turn you in. They just might not take you. Maybe.

These dudes are military studs. And, they will - literally - fight to the last man. They're not f'n around.

 

[southerndoc]

Would be a shame if he became disabled.

 

[Porfirio]

Would be a shame if he became disabled.

I think I would pay someone to make me disabled.

 

[rokshana]

What's his lawyer say?
You can't be forced to work but he will get raked over the coals for child support. Alimony will depend on the length of the marriage.

The courts will determine the amount he has to pay for the above and it will be up to him to keep the money flowing. This is where a good/expensive lawyer can try to keep things reasonable.

But judging from the wife's lawyers rhetoric, it looks like this will be a long and painful process.

Probably cheaper to keep her.

you decide to have kids and then decide not to live with them, you need to pay to support them.,.if you can't do this...dont have kids.

 

[RoyBasch]

Your throwaway comment bears reflection. La Legion has medics that are Legionnaires, but the medical department and doctors are French Army. It's similar to special forces detachments worldwide. There is battlefield stabilization and transfer to a field hospital or higher.

Damn there goes my backup plan.

 

[CoolDoc1729]

you decide to have kids and then decide not to live with them, you need to pay to support them.,.if you can't do this...dont have kids.

There’s a lot of space between “paying to support your kids” and “being forced to work 1.5-1.75 FTE to support a lavish lifestyle for your ex”

 

[throway134]

Nobody should be forced into wage slavery just because they once had children. Parents are entitled to be able to live freely and enjoy their lives also. And what exactly keeps the spouse from getting a job and providing?

I am the choir friend, I don’t need preaching.

I agree no one should be forced into wage slavery. I also think it’s absurd that they can simultaneously argue that the wife was providing childcare/housework so that you could work more (“earning” the expensive alimony) and argue that you can still work the same number of hours without that support. And that there is no obligation on the other party to provide that level of support. The custody laws are also fairly sexist.

Having said all that, if it’s my kids and I am losing custody, I still want them to have the best life I can give them. Leaving them in poverty because I don’t like their mother wouldn’t be consistent with my own moral code.

 

[anonperson]

you decide to have kids and then decide not to live with them, you need to pay to support them.,.if you can't do this...dont have kids.

We don't know who initiated the divorce.

May not have been the friends choice.

Regardless, the issue isn't the idea of child support. The issue is what is a reasonable amount.

 

[ScepticSkeksis]

So if you only make $15K in a month, do they throw you in jail because you physically don't have the other 3K to pay them?

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

We don't have debtor's prison in this country.

 

[CajunMedic]

Closer than you might think. When I got screwed out of a commission in military college, I seriously considered the FFL. I spoke French (REALLY well back then), and was from a military school. If there was any Internet back then, I would much more likely be now a veteran of La Legion.

When I came off Active duty and out of the National Guard, I was considering it myself. I spoke decent French and was in pretty good shape. Even started selling off the stuff I didn't need to pay for the ticket to Paris.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

We don't have debtor's prison in this country.

Unless it’s child support multiple doctors are on the wanted list for child support

Also let’s say you have a kid with someone and they aren’t married to you and if you don’t keep receipts of the child support you can be hit with back support and fines

Why some men owe 30-100k

 

[dozitgetchahi]

We don't have debtor's prison in this country.

No. But many states can and do jail folks for non payment of child support. You haven’t heard of this?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

So if you only make $15K in a month, do they throw you in jail because you physically don't have the other 3K to pay them?

Yes. You can get a lawyer and go back to court to argue about it, but success there assumes you have a sane judge (and in family court, good luck).

 

[deleted1140701]

Idk about others but I'd never be okay with a "SAHM." That's an old, outdated concept. People should split responsibilities. Hire a full time nanny for childcare if necessary. Get take out/prepared meals if no time to cook. All that's possible with the second salary assuming they're not working at Burger King. The concept of SAHM is a recipe for depression, laziness, and lack of fulfillment from my experience watching my cousins' moms who are all SAHMs.

 

[RustedFox]

Idk about others but I'd never be okay with a "SAHM." That's an old, outdated concept. People should split responsibilities. Hire a full time nanny for childcare if necessary. Get take out/prepared meals if no time to cook. All that's possible with the second salary assuming they're not working at Burger King. The concept of SAHM is a recipe for depression, laziness, and lack of fulfillment from my experience watching my cousins' moms who are all SAHMs.

Been married for 8 years.
Wife didn't work for a few.
She went absolutely mad; to the point where divorce was imminent.
Papers were drafted.
She started working again.
A good majority of the issues simply dissolved, as she felt like she was now "purposeful" again in life.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Jesus Christ.

I have nothing to add, except to warn high earners to have a prenup.

Do not marry the SAHM type. It's a trap. Your friend is about to learn this very expensive lesson.

Or marry an equally high income spouse. Extra points for marrying someone who makes more than you 😂

 

[RustedFox]

Closer than you might think. When I got screwed out of a commission in military college, I seriously considered the FFL. I spoke French (REALLY well back then), and was from a military school. If there was any Internet back then, I would much more likely be now a veteran of La Legion.

Notably, you can enlist under any name, but they do run photos through an Interpol database. They won't turn you in. They just might not take you. Maybe.

These dudes are military studs. And, they will - literally - fight to the last man. They're not f'n around.

When I came off Active duty and out of the National Guard, I was considering it myself. I spoke decent French and was in pretty good shape. Even started selling off the stuff I didn't need to pay for the ticket to Paris.

Okay guys, forgive my civilian ass.
What's such a big deal about the French Foreign Legion?
Sure, I've heard the term "Legionnaire", but it doesn't strike me the same way as like "Delta Force" or "SEAL Team Six".

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Okay guys, forgive my civilian ass.
What's such a big deal about the French Foreign Legion?
Sure, I've heard the term "Legionnaire", but it doesn't strike me the same way as like "Delta Force" or "SEAL Team Six".

I've known a few FFL guys. Much of the mystique comes from legend. But basically the unit is made up of non-French nationals, under the command of the French military. So historically they were thrown into difficult combat scenarios, partially because they're well trained, it's all volunteer which says a lot about the guy next to you when things get tough, and they aren't French - the thought being it's easier for the French government to put them into situations where they may not survive.

The guys I knew were all pretty down to earth, but historically it was a place you could literally run away to and start a new life. If they accept you, you lose your passport, any identification cards, you create a new identity. Back in the day it was a place you could disappear. New name, new French passport (when the time came), new identity. So there was a smattering of people seeking thrills, escaping their lives (the law or just their current situation) and putting it all on the line for the chance of a new start. If you make a career out of it and spend (I think) 20 years in the legion, you get to retire to a lovely place in France, all expenses paid. Like a farm of sorts.

Now that's the mythology. In reality it's less like this (so my FFL guys tell me). You do get a new identity, but you're not likely to escape a murder 1 charge by running to the FFL. They are also fairly selective on who they take. They don't often care for people with prior military experience, though they will take them if they need/want them. It takes more than physical fitness and motivation. They don't really publish what it is they look for in a recruit, but they turn plenty of people away.

In all reality probably closest in comparison to US marines. Different mission set and skillset from the units you mentioned.

If anybody has other experience with them that's cool. I'm not an authority on the FFL. Just know some guys who served and we used to chat in my military days. This was awhile ago though. So basically I'm adding this as an addendum to say that the above is what I know second hand from these guys, nothing more.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Idk about others but I'd never be okay with a "SAHM." That's an old, outdated concept. People should split responsibilities. Hire a full time nanny for childcare if necessary. Get take out/prepared meals if no time to cook. All that's possible with the second salary assuming they're not working at Burger King. The concept of SAHM is a recipe for depression, laziness, and lack of fulfillment from my experience watching my cousins' moms who are all SAHMs.

Yeah but they will say they they baby is hard work and they don’t feel comfortable with a stranger watching the kids only for a few years

They 6 years go by and then they complain that they are stuck with the kids all the time and grow unsatisfied

 

[Apollyon]

I've known a few FFL guys. Much of the mystique comes from legend. But basically the unit is made up of non-French nationals, under the command of the French military. So historically they were thrown into difficult combat scenarios, partially because they're well trained, it's all volunteer which says a lot about the guy next to you when things get tough, and they aren't French - the thought being it's easier for the French government to put them into situations where they may not survive.

The guys I knew were all pretty down to earth, but historically it was a place you could literally run away to and start a new life. If they accept you, you lose your passport, any identification cards, you create a new identity. Back in the day it was a place you could disappear. New name, new French passport (when the time came), new identity. So there was a smattering of people seeking thrills, escaping their lives (the law or just their current situation) and putting it all on the line for the chance of a new start. If you make a career out of it and spend (I think) 20 years in the legion, you get to retire to a lovely place in France, all expenses paid. Like a farm of sorts.

Now that's the mythology. In reality it's less like this (so my FFL guys tell me). You do get a new identity, but you're not likely to escape a murder 1 charge by running to the FFL. They are also fairly selective on who they take. They don't often care for people with prior military experience, though they will take them if they need/want them. It takes more than physical fitness and motivation. They don't really publish what it is they look for in a recruit, but they turn plenty of people away.

In all reality probably closest in comparison to US marines. Different mission set and skillset from the units you mentioned.

If anybody has other experience with them that's cool. I'm not an authority on the FFL. Just know some guys who served and we used to chat in my military days. This was awhile ago though. So basically I'm adding this as an addendum to say that the above is what I know second hand from these guys, nothing more.

Cosign that, but, one thing: some percentage are native Frenchmen.

 

[Apollyon]

Okay guys, forgive my civilian ass.
What's such a big deal about the French Foreign Legion?
Sure, I've heard the term "Legionnaire", but it doesn't strike me the same way as like "Delta Force" or "SEAL Team Six".

There's only about 8-9000 of them (like, USMC is around 200k). They're special forces operators.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Cosign that, but, one thing: some percentage are native Frenchmen.

No kidding, I had no idea. Aside from the officer corps as well?

 

[Apollyon]

No kidding, I had no idea. Aside from the officer corps as well?

To my knowledge, those are all French. I don't think you can get commissioned from enlisting.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

To my knowledge, those are all French. I don't think you can get commissioned from enlisting.

Yeah that was also my understanding. I didn’t know any enlisted were French though.