Being poor :(

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12345a

12345a

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I've always been attracted to dentistry b/c there is so much to offer: the compensation is good for the amount of work put in, the hours are unbeatable, it's a medical related profession that doesn't involve death, it involves getting to work with the hands, and it allows you to run your own business if you want to.

With all these great things, I was curious if it was possible to be poor as a dentist. All the dentists in my family (there are 5 of them) are in there mid to late 30's. Some own their own business and others are associates aspiring to open a practice. They're all wealthy and I guess I have been spoiled with the notion that, 'become a dentist any you'll be rich'.

Besides making bad investments and managing your money unwisely, do you think is it possible to do everything right and still be poor as a dentist?
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no. i mean, its possible to be poor, but you'd have to really try to screw up.
 
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If you end up in a large city or an area with a high concentration of dentists you'll end up making less than if you were to move elsewhere. My dentist opened a practice in a growing area outside Phoenix, AZ and he's making a KILLING.

Also depends on your definition of poor. Average salary is ~$140k (if I'm not mistaken) and that's a great salary (I grew up on ~$100k) but I would hardly call it "rich". Very well off, middle to upper-middle class I'd say. But if you're used to living a higher standard of living, you may be in for a surprise.
 
Slack3r said:
If you end up in a large city or an area with a high concentration of dentists you'll end up making less than if you were to move elsewhere. My dentist opened a practice in a growing area outside Phoenix, AZ and he's making a KILLING.

Also depends on your definition of poor. Average salary is ~$140k (if I'm not mistaken) and that's a great salary (I grew up on ~$100k) but I would hardly call it "rich". Very well off, middle to upper-middle class I'd say. But if you're used to living a higher standard of living, you may be in for a surprise.
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average is more like ~200k. and tbh, the only dentist whose salary information i know owns his own practice and works in a non-saturated area, and he crushes this number. so i'm not really sure whether 200k is actually what to expect or whether this number is underreported/dragged down by people who insist on working in saturated areas as associates.
 
I guess it is possible to be a poor dentist... if some radical event happens in your life or if you are completely stupid in financial planning.
 
The general consensus from all the dentists I've talked to is that associates generally make ~100k. I don't know what its like in other states but here in Texas most associates get paid 35% of their production. So do the math and see how hard you have to work to net over 100k after taxes.

I work for a general dentist who owns two practices and has been in business for almost 20 years, he nets around 400k. But the area we're in isn't saturated at all.

Some of you kids are crazy too saying that 100k a year isn't that good of a quality of life. Some of us grew up with way less than that and never complained.
 
Of course it is. All you need to do is spend more than you make.
 
WilsonJing said:
nope. 100000 a year is hard to blow through
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You're joking, right? I think there is a litany of former athletes and celebrities who would beg to differ. That being said, even if you're making over 100K, there is a lot (A LOT) of debt associated with dental school, plus if you choose to buy a house, practice, etc. I think it is pretty darn easy to keep yourself poor no matter how much you are making.

ps In dental school expect to be super poor. Every time I go to buy anything I think about how I'm going to have to pay like 3x its value in the future when I actually pay off my loans and it makes me so sad.
 
arg...being an educated productive part of society is pricey

thanks for the responses, really broadened my perspective
 
I think they were implying that 100k a year is not enough if you take into account tax deductions and loans to pay off..
 
One thing that really bugs me is when people point out

"making 100,000 is not very much after taxes/medical insurance/house....you may only see 35-40,000. Which means that your down to just an average American salary. There really isn't as much money as you think in dentistry"

(^^^----made that up but that's usually how it goes----^^^).

Do they forget to realize that people with a salary of 40,000 also pay taxes/medical insurance/rent. These people have the same monthly expenses to pay back (besides maybe school loans but still probable).
 
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Remember... you dont have to be in debt if you dont want to... just join the armed forces :)
 
12345a said:
I've always been attracted to dentistry b/c there is so much to offer: the compensation is good for the amount of work put in, the hours are unbeatable, it's a medical related profession that doesn't involve death, it involves getting to work with the hands, and it allows you to run your own business if you want to.

With all these great things, I was curious if it was possible to be poor as a dentist. All the dentists in my family (there are 5 of them) are in there mid to late 30's. Some own their own business and others are associates aspiring to open a practice. They're all wealthy and I guess I have been spoiled with the notion that, 'become a dentist any you'll be rich'.

Besides making bad investments and managing your money unwisely, do you think is it possible to do everything right and still be poor as a dentist?
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Wow, your a lucky person to have been raised in such a household. Well what I think is that it is possible to be a poor dentist, if you take too many loans in dental school or become a lazy dentist in the start. If you start out your first year in practice and you opt to work 9am - 3pm, then work only 3 days a week, you still have debts to pay off providing you took a loan so in that case you would be a very poor dentist.
 
If you want to make money in dentistry, I think you generally can... but if you start a practice right out of school with no patient base, you may be making less than $30K/yr and some (after overhead) make next to nothing. The good news is that there are generally a lot of opportunities to work as an associate or for a larger dental group where $ will be better if this is your case.

As far as the military goes, I think it is great to get into that but remember that you on average starting make about 30-40K less than a community dentist in general practice. This would be about the repayment on your loan (a little more) if you want to pay it off in 10 yrs. It averages out pretty well.
 
Even 120k per year starting isn't great when you have massive loans to pay. Just assuming you're paying 35% taxes, you net $78,000 of which 35% should go back to student loans (private school). $50700 net per year sucks when my friend out of college can make that much doing accounting or engineering with no advanced degree. :scared:
 
ArmyDDS2013 said:
Even 120k per year starting isn't great when you have massive loans to pay. Just assuming you're paying 35% taxes, you net $78,000 of which 35% should go back to student loans (private school). $50700 net per year sucks when my friend out of college can make that much doing accounting or engineering with no advanced degree. :scared:
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True your friends may make just as much in the short term but I bet if we gauge the life span of a Dentist and an Engineer, in the long run ,the Dentist will end up being more financially well off and not to mention job security...
 
OMFS08 said:
True your friends may make just as much in the short term but I bet if we gauge the life span of a Dentist and an Engineer, in the long run ,the Dentist will end up being more financially well off and not to mention job security...
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Very true indeed! The first few years will suck but it's all about long term goals and needs. Of course we will all be better off :thumbup:
 
you need to think about where you want to live and raise a family after you are done with school. For $500K you can get a 3 level, 5000-6000 sf property sitting on 2-6 acres, in a very nice, exclusive area of Indianapolis. The same house in southern California would cost $2-$3 million, and would sit on 1 acre or less. and if you are making 150k a year, you probably cant afford the latter. And if youre persian that makes things 1000000000000x more complicated...but thats a whole other discussion. :)
 
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If you go into research/faculty at a university (which is something I'm considering), you might be poor. I think new faculty start around 70-90k (that's what I dug up by searching old threads). That won't really go terribly far if you're living in, say, Boston or San Francisco, and trying to pay off your student loans at the same time. Then again, at many schools faculty supplement their income with practicing a few days a week, so you might be pretty well off.
 
aren't student loans tax deductible? i thought all education was tax deductible???

and in canada, if you pay those loans within 7 years you can substract them from your pre-tax income.
 
Contach said:
aren't student loans tax deductible? i thought all education was tax deductible???

and in canada, if you pay those loans within 7 years you can substract them from your pre-tax income.
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Student loans are not tax deductible. Student loan interest paid is, but the tax deductibility depends heavily upon income. With 100k+ per year you won't be deducting much, and that which you do deduct will barely decrease your effective tax rate.

We're not in Canada so that's a mute point.
 
Contach said:
aren't student loans tax deductible? i thought all education was tax deductible???

and in canada, if you pay those loans within 7 years you can substract them from your pre-tax income.
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Student loan interest is tax-deductible at $2,500 max per year......at least in AMERICA

Most dental students don't work so you have nothing to deduct. When you are earning 100,000 per year, $2500 deduction returns you at most 500-700 dollars.
 
whateveryoulike said:
yep, do what he says, then you get to trade your debt for government issued shackles ;)
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I much rather have the opportunity to serve the country gave me the opportunity to become a dentist than come out with a huge financial weight on my back. My dad came to this country as an immigrant, and I feel like the luckiest kid in the world to have been born in such a free and affluent place. I'm doing a 3 year AF scholarship, I've already gone through MEPS @ Pearl Harbor, and can't wait to be on the government payroll.
 
I dont think most you guys realize that you actually cant go based on what the online salaries tell you. Its only really accurate if you live in a rual area, when I went to school up state I hade a friend whos dad was a dentist. He would do everything inlcuding his own cleanings, an really didnt make that much from what he told me. Now im from long island, an were I did my internship the dentist were easily making 300k each just as associates, not owners.
Its all different depending on were you live.
 
xplayer2885 said:
I dont think most you guys realize that you actually cant go based on what the online salaries tell you. Its only really accurate if you live in a rual area, when I went to school up state I hade a friend whos dad was a dentist. He would do everything inlcuding his own cleanings, an really didnt make that much from what he told me. Now im from long island, an were I did my internship the dentist were easily making 300k each just as associates, not owners.
Its all different depending on were you live.
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I live in long island too, I love it!
 
ArmyDDS2013 said:
Even 120k per year starting isn't great when you have massive loans to pay. Just assuming you're paying 35% taxes, you net $78,000 of which 35% should go back to student loans (private school). $50700 net per year sucks when my friend out of college can make that much doing accounting or engineering with no advanced degree. :scared:
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Just like the guy above said, your math is wrong.

Let's say...

Dentist first year out = $120k
$120k - $42k (taxes) = $78k
$78k - $14k ($200k loan, 30 yrs, 6%) = $64k

Your friend making $50k with accounting first year out = $50k
$50k - $14k (taxes) = $36k
$36k - $1.5k (his student loans) = $34.5k

So it is not the same. It is in actuality nearly double the amount the accountant friend is making.

But the fun really starts when the dentist becomes owner, moves up to $200k and writes off loads of personal expenses through his dental business. ;)
 
xplayer2885 said:
I dont think most you guys realize that you actually cant go based on what the online salaries tell you. Its only really accurate if you live in a rual area, when I went to school up state I hade a friend whos dad was a dentist. He would do everything inlcuding his own cleanings, an really didnt make that much from what he told me. Now im from long island, an were I did my internship the dentist were easily making 300k each just as associates, not owners.
Its all different depending on were you live.
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Well, the fact that he did it ALL himself is probably why he didn't make as much money as other dentists. There isn't enough manypower/womanpower to get enough people through the door for profit. If he had two dental assistants AND treated two patients every time they were cleaning, he could make significantly more. BUT, maybe he likes to work alone and do everything himself, money isn't everything you know...
 
All i can read in this post is how much you'll end up making as a dentist, but i think it is important to understand that the "picture" that you have of the rich dentist who makes millions is far away behind us.
It was maybe the case 10 to 20 years ago, when dental schools was cheap, tax was not what it is today and when buying a house an office and dental equipement was much more affordable.
Today, a lot of dentist are struggling in getting a good number of patients due to hardcore competition. And as if it wasn't enough they also struggle with inssurance companies to get paid!!!!!!!

So my point here is that its not worth it the money and the 8 years of very difficult studies to end up with a job that you wont like .... Especially if you realize that your friends who went into business are making 3 times as much as you with a simple b.a

think twice before getting into dentistry for the money
 
if your a dentist your not going to be poor, thats a fact.

And as far a business friends doing better than you i dont really buy it. Right now most my business friends are really struggling to get jobs or internships. Only a select few will make it into I banking and other high pay jobs. As dentists we on the other hand can all expect over 100k. If your going to compare against the select few business kids with the highest paying jobs you should compare against the dentists making >300,000k.

yeh you should do dentistry only for the money, but on the other hand i cant think any other jobs that pay as well, are as secure, and have as high an earning potential.
 
littlefrenchman said:
All i can read in this post is how much you'll end up making as a dentist, but i think it is important to understand that the "picture" that you have of the rich dentist who makes millions is far away behind us.
It was maybe the case 10 to 20 years ago, when dental schools was cheap, tax was not what it is today and when buying a house an office and dental equipement was much more affordable.
Today, a lot of dentist are struggling in getting a good number of patients due to hardcore competition. And as if it wasn't enough they also struggle with inssurance companies to get paid!!!!!!!

So my point here is that its not worth it the money and the 8 years of very difficult studies to end up with a job that you wont like .... Especially if you realize that your friends who went into business are making 3 times as much as you with a simple b.a

think twice before getting into dentistry for the money
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My dentist went to school in the 50's, had time to work a little, and when he finished his loan was $1,500! He feels sorry for us students that will end up with so much debt in the end :( I think it's worth it, and one has to be very careful to borrow as little as we can :thumbup: It all depends on how you work things out right after school, where you work, how to pay the loans back, and make smart financial planning. Work TODAY, play mañana :cool:

I'm sure it will be a sad drive to work every day for a job you really don't love....
 
Interesting, anything is possible but I dont know any poor dentists myself. You could make millions and if your irresponsible, you'll be poor. Sounds like professional athletes are filing for bankruptcy left and right nowadays.
 
Just marry a gold digger who will divorce you in a few years and you'll be set to be in the poor house.
 
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