Being Undocumented Student And Want To Get In Med School

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cindy maksimov

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:confused: Hi, can someone please help me?
I have legal SSN, pay taxes, work, senior at school, but have no green card or citizenship. The story is long, my lawer messed up my case, left me without legal status and the only thing I can do is get married or wait for law to change. I have no intentions on getting married, and so far no changes in law. My goal is to find the way and get in med school. What should I do? There is a criminal background check so I cannot lie and say that I am, although one advisor told me to go for it, since i have no criminal record, bur still some people would consider me a criminal. Does anyone have any helpful ideas? PLEASE HELP:luck:
 

HumbleMD

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:confused: Hi, can someone please help me?
I have legal SSN, pay taxes, work, senior at school, but have no green card or citizenship. The story is long, my lawer messed up my case, left me without legal status and the only thing I can do is get married or wait for law to change. I have no intentions on getting married, and so far no changes in law. My goal is to find the way and get in med school. What should I do? There is a criminal background check so I cannot lie and say that I am, although one advisor told me to go for it, since i have no criminal record, bur still some people would consider me a criminal. Does anyone have any helpful ideas? PLEASE HELP:luck:
You might be getting some flaming on this (and I'm hoping you're not a troll). You have to have citizenship status, or at least some sort of education visa in which case you would be an international applicant (which is more difficult to gain an acceptance with). If you are a senior in high school, are you able to gain admittance to a U.S. University with full registration? Other question is how you have a SSN without any sort of visa, green card, or citizenship. I think your best bet, if the path to gaining citizenship/registration truly is cut off, is to go to Medical School back in Mexico. I was just looking at a faculty list for Baylor, for example, and there are a host of people from Central and South American Universities. Honestly, there aren't enough spots in medical schools for people here legally, so go to medical school in your own legal place of citizenship. And yes, you are committing a crime by staying and working here...;)
 
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EndSong

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Huh? Did I miss something? When did OP say they were Mexican?
 
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HumbleMD

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Huh? Did I miss something? When did OP say they were Mexican?

Vast majority of undocumented immigrants are Mexican. Sure there are some Guetemaltecos y Hondurenos, but I was taking an educated guess.
 

HumbleMD

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Yea, I think someone misread "senior at high school" for senor at high school.

If the OP is not of Mexican heritage I will change my post. I have yet to see anyone besides myself post something on topic.
 

Falco2525

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Like HumbleMD I find it strange you have all the documentation u have but are not a citizen or have a green card...how long have u been in the US...I was just wondering if there was anyway you could claim citizenship...also how hard is it to get a green card...I honestly know very little about this topic which is why I suggested finding another lawyer...maybe Law2doc will pipe in at some point
 

HumbleMD

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Like HumbleMD I find it strange you have all the documentation u have but are not a citizen or have a green card...how long have u been in the US...I was just wondering if there was anyway you could claim citizenship...also how hard is it to get a green card...I honestly know very little about this topic which is why I suggested finding another lawyer...maybe Law2doc will pipe in at some point

He will. Anytime anyone brings up a legal topic on these forums, the red phone in his office lights up.
 

EndSong

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Senor Cindy.

Any ways, back to OP question,

1) You need some better legal advice. We're not lawyers or INS so you need to fix that problem in some way.

2) If you are unnaturalized or non-green card holding for whatever reason, it will make your entrance to medical school very, very difficult. Its already hard enough for most people to get in who are citizens and US medical schools prefer citizens (they receive money from the state and govt to help pay for the education of residents). Additionally, not being a citizen means you do not have access to the same amount of aid that is available to most US students, i.e. many foreigners in the US who attend a US Medical school have to secure some way of paying the lump sum of medical school education by themselves, i.e. many schools considering accepting you would need proof that you have 200 k in the bank. This is of course, assuming that you can also pay for college mostly out of pocket. There may be more aid for you at the college level, I would contact your university's office for international students. Given the immense financial hurdle, if you are unable to pay for a quarter of a milllion dollars out of pocket, you're about the face, in addition to the challenges of getting a good GPA, MCAT, research and clinical experience, I second what Humble said and you should really consider medical schools in your home country or other countries like Ireland or Australia.
 

Falco2525

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Senor Cindy.

Any ways, back to OP question,

1) You need some better legal advice. We're not lawyers or INS so you need to fix that problem in some way.

2) If you are unnaturalized or non-green card holding for whatever reason, it will make your entrance to medical school very, very difficult. Its already hard enough for most people to get in who are citizens and US medical schools prefer citizens (they receive money from the state and govt to help pay for the education of residents). Additionally, not being a citizen means you do not have access to the same amount of aid that is available to most US students, i.e. many foreigners in the US who attend a US Medical school have to secure some way of paying the lump sum of medical school education by themselves, i.e. many schools considering accepting you would need proof that you have 200 k in the bank. This is of course, assuming that you can also pay for college mostly out of pocket. There may be more aid for you at the college level, I would contact your university's office for international students. Given the immense financial hurdle, if you are unable to pay for a quarter of a milllion dollars out of pocket, you're about the face, in addition to the challenges of getting a good GPA, MCAT, research and clinical experience, I second what Humble said and you should really consider medical schools in your home country or other countries like Ireland or Australia.

or the carribean
 

sunnyjohn

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I used to work with students on visas.

There are many people in the US who have been screwed over by stupid immigration lawyers who have all the documents the OP mentioned.

Getting a legal SSN was not incredibly difficult in the 1990's. Your card was marked "Not able to work without INS authorization" sometimes.

Get a new lawyer. You may still have a case.

Whatever you do, DON'T LIE on your med school application. It will come back to bite you in the butt come residency time when you can't match without a J-1. Goodbye medical license.
 
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southpawcannon

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hmm, doubtful the OP would put her real name up, but if that's the case, then maksimov doesn't quite sound like a name of someone from Mexico or any other spanish-speaking country.
 

EndSong

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Aussieland is having a doctor shortage and is interested in recruiting. Carribean schools are more expensive than most American schools and don't have a good retention rate.
 

sunnyjohn

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hmm, doubtful the OP would put her real name up, but if that's the case, then maksimov doesn't quite sound like a name of someone from Mexico or any other spanish-speaking country.


My guess is the OP came to the US on a legal tourist visa or student visa awhile ago, tried to get legal, and fell out of status while taking bad advice.....

Or they where brought over by parents.....
 

Karina 07

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Uh, it's not hard to get an SSN *nowadays*, either. I'm Canadian, and I have a U.S. SSN. International students are allowed to work on campus in the U.S. while studying in the states.

Also, I got it without having the required documents, a few days after September 11th, so there. Long story, but I essentially forgot all the documents I needed except my passport, a couple of hours away from home, and they just looked at me and said "aw, little blonde girl, okay" and processed my application anyway :p. It would have been a different story if I had been a male Pakistani or something, I'm sure.
 

baylormed

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Uh, it's not hard to get an SSN *nowadays*, either. I'm Canadian, and I have a U.S. SSN. International students are allowed to work on campus in the U.S. while studying in the states.

Also, I got it without having the required documents, a few days after September 11th, so there. Long story, but I essentially forgot all the documents I needed except my passport, a couple of hours away from home, and they just looked at me and said "aw, little blonde girl, okay" and processed my application anyway :p. It would have been a different story if I had been a male Pakistani or something, I'm sure.

Probably.

To answer somebody else's question, gettting a green card is not that easy. You must have some sort of basis to your claim for residency, whether marriage, or a direct relationship (child/parent/sibling) with someone who can claim you (this becomes harder the older you are, it's easier if you are a minor), or maybe assylum status. All of these have a limited # of visas to give out per year except in the case of people who are claimed by a US citizen. In any other case, it will take years.

Try to get yourself another lawyer, and see if there is anything that can be done. That's all the advice you can really get from here.

And yes, getting into medical school without being a Citizen/PR will be very, very difficult, and you wouldn't qualify for assistance which means you have to be able to pay for school on your own.

Good Luck.
 

baylormed

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Uh I'm pretty sure the IRS would have called the INS if this were the case. The I_S's are pretty chill together...

She may have a temporary work permit and that's why she is able to work, but a work permit is just that, a work permit. It doesn't give you PR status.
 

RAD11

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I think if the OP has overstayed here in the US with a tourist visa and is now considered "illegal", it will be close to impossible to get into medical school. I agree with what the others have said and just to go back to your home country to obtain your medical education.

However, if you leave the US to go back home and eventually want to practice here, it may also be impossible since you'll need legal status. Actually once the OP leaves, he/she might not be able to return.
 

sunnyjohn

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Uh I'm pretty sure the IRS would have called the INS if this were the case. The I_S's are pretty chill together...

No they don't. The IRS is such an evil mutha'. They will screw you first before they ever call any outside government agency. I've seen students, illegals and folks on visas get squeezed pretty hard by the IRS during audits. Smart agents will tell you straight up, "How can we collect if they are back in their home country?"

THAT is the biggest problem with US government agencies. Things fall through the cracks because the big boys are glory hogs and don't really share info with each other.

OP, you really need to speak with a new immigration attorney. Your question is way beyond the scope of this board.
 

notdeadyet

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Vast majority of undocumented immigrants are Mexican. Sure there are some Guetemaltecos y Hondurenos, but I was taking an educated guess.
Vast majority? Please. It's about as educated as saying, "Since you're applying to medical school, I assume you're white."

About 57% of undocumented immigrants are Mexican. Roughly 2/3rds of medical school applicants are white.
 
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notdeadyet

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Uh I'm pretty sure the IRS would have called the INS if this were the case. The I_S's are pretty chill together...
Actually, no. As long as you don't owe taxes, the IRS doesn't chase down/report to INS. Many folks work for years on a SSN without papers...
 

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Get a new lawyer. It sounds to me like you had legal papers but they are expired and your crappy lawyer hasn't pulled through for you.

If you want to stay and do med school, you WILL need to get legal documents. A green card or citizenship is required for most med schools (some schools will only take citizens).

This is not a good place to ask about immigration advice, even if it does pertain to med school acceptance. You need to ask a lawyer. Good luck.
 

HumbleMD

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Vast majority? Please. It's about as educated as saying, "Since you're applying to medical school, I assume you're white."

About 57% of undocumented immigrants are Mexican. Roughly 2/3rds of medical school applicants are white.

It would be a fair guess to make. Would I gamble my life on it? No. But if I'm talking to a nurse on the forums, I'd also guess they were female. Could I be wrong? Absolutely, but I do follow trends and observations.
 

blackrsx

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I think your best bet, if the path to gaining citizenship/registration truly is cut off, is to go to Medical School back in Mexico.

wow, i guess you can make blanket assumptions and still be humble
 

notdeadyet

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It would be a fair guess to make.
57%? That's sort of like assuming that a toin coss will always come up heads. It's sloppy. And when it's done with issues of race..... well, to each their own.
 

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HumbleMD

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57%? That's sort of like assuming that a toin coss will always come up heads. It's sloppy. And when it's done with issues of race..... well, to each their own.

The 57% isn't the whole story. You're assuming that the only countries that exist besides the U.S. are Mexico and some other single country (coinflip). 57% come from Mexico, and much smaller percentages come from various countries all over the world. 57% is much larger, than say the 10% that come from another specific country. So if one were to pick a country, I'd say Mexico is a pretty good guess to make. And as I've said, if the OP ever chimes back up (I'm beginning to think we've all been trolled) and they're not from Mexico, I'll gladly change my post.
 
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RAD11

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Get a new lawyer. It sounds to me like you had legal papers but they are expired and your crappy lawyer hasn't pulled through for you.

If you want to stay and do med school, you WILL need to get legal documents. A green card or citizenship is required for most med schools (some schools will only take citizens).

This is not a good place to ask about immigration advice, even if it does pertain to med school acceptance. You need to ask a lawyer. Good luck.

:thumbup:
 

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He will. Anytime anyone brings up a legal topic on these forums, the red phone in his office lights up.

I think Law2Doc is a little too ethical to jump in and answer a specific legal question like this. Also, if immigration law weren't his area of expertise, I don't think he'd be qualified.
 
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notdeadyet

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OK I guess the IRS and INS don't cross talk. Was a shot in the dark.
You're thinking far too logically for the U.S. Gov't...
Diiiiid u get that from npr
Nope. From Migration Policy Institute. Why? Do you reckon NPR would be biased one way or the other on the issue of nationality of undocumented workers? Just curious...
 

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Nope. From Migration Policy Institute. Why? Do you reckon NPR would be biased one way or the other on the issue of nationality of undocumented workers? Just curious...

Nah I just did a 10 second google search on hispanic illegal immigrants and clicked a link which was npr and it also said 57% and I was wondering if we were looking at the same thing.
 

HumbleMD

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Nah I just did a 10 second google search on hispanic illegal immigrants and clicked a link which was npr and it also said 57% and I was wondering if we were looking at the same thing.

Oh come on eternal. We all know you don't trust that Diane Rehm. Anyone with a quavering voice is never to be trusted. Remember the villain from inspector gadget?
 

inside_edition

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It would be a fair guess to make. Would I gamble my life on it? No. But if I'm talking to a nurse on the forums, I'd also guess they were female. Could I be wrong? Absolutely, but I do follow trends and observations.

you're an example of why UMich tries really hard to accept diverse students (for undergrad and grad schools).

here's something that might amuse you:


Stereotypes Are A Real Time-Saver
August 14, 2002 | Issue 38•29

I'm a busy guy. And, while I'd love to, I don't have the time to get to know every person I encounter in the course of my daily life. So thank goodness I have a handy little device at my disposal that helps me know how to deal with just about anyone I come across: stereotypes. Yes, stereotypes are a real time-saver!

You have no idea how much this streamlines my day. For example, before I started using stereotypes, if I were trying to choose a podiatrist to treat my foot pain, I would be clueless. I would've tried tons of podiatrists of all different races before finding a really good one. But, armed with the stereotype that Asians are all really smart and studious, all I have to do is scan the yellow pages for podiatrists under the name "Chang"!

Stereotypes also work when I'm trying to decide on a place for lunch. I steer clear of any place that employs Arabs—not because Arabs are all terrorists, but because they tend to be filthy and have poor hygiene. By sticking to Caucasian-run establishments, I can avoid wasting weeks lying in bed with a debilitating food-borne illness. If I'm in a rush and have to eat fast, I'll definitely avoid going to a place run by Jamaicans. They are sooo slow. Ever been to Jamaica? It takes, like, two hours to order a Coke down there.

Gender and age stereotypes can be just as useful as the racial ones. Let's say you need to ask directions. I'd never ask a woman, because her answer could be unreliable. With a woman, you can never tell if "Aunt Flow" is in town, so she could be going through a mood swing and send you to Timbuktu. And women over 50 are completely out of the question because of their hot flashes. I won't even ask a man over 60, because you never know when the ravages of Alzheimer's could be setting in. That's why the only people I trust to get me where I need to go are men under 60. White men, that is.

Stereotypes aren't just a trick for leisure time. You can really speed through your work day with them, too. Right now, the firm I manage is looking to hire an accountant. Without stereotypes, I'd have to read every resume and interview dozens of candidates. Make no mistake, there's still a lot of culling involved, because resumes rarely include photographs. But the first thing I do when a big stack of resumes shows up is throw out the Hispanic last names. This saves me hours right off the top.

After that, I make an "A-List" pile out of the Jewish-sounding names. According to the old stereotype, Jews are great with money, so those are the people I'm primarily interested in interviewing. In the interest of fairness, though, I'd like to interview a few Christians, too. Only problem is, some Christians are black, and who ever heard of a black accountant? I want to screen out the blacks, but unfortunately, not every black person is named Tyrone or Laquisha, so I sometimes wind up accidentally calling one in for an interview.

To fix this problem, I've turned to—what else?—stereotypes. I've come up with this plan where I phone everyone in the Christian pile and ask whether they'd be interested in participating in a menthol-cigarettes-and-malt-liquor taste-test (free, naturally). Boo-yah! An hour of phone calls later, and I've got my two master lists, Jews and white Christians. My competitors can flush all their free time down the crapper searching hither and yon for the actual best-qualified applicant, but Fast-Track Wally's got Yankees tickets!

Yes, even a Polack can see that stereotypes are the busy man's best friend!
 

HumbleMD

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you're an example of why UMich tries really hard to accept diverse students (for undergrad and grad schools).
...
(too long to repeat)

And quotas and point systems aren't a time saving measure, are they?

Why would you assume I *wasn't* "diverse." Becasue all white people are racist SOB's, sorry, I forgot. Or I was thinking that I assumed, with statistics on my side, that a self-confessed illegal immigrant was Mexican, after which I proceeded to give her some pretty sound advice. I wasn't making value judgements, I was guessing someone's nation of origin on an internet pre-med forum. You can get off your soapbox now.

And I still argue that we've all been trolled. The OP hasn't even responded yet. If she ever does, and is not from Mexico, as I've said, I'd be happy to change my post.

I say close the thread. We've been trolled.
 
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Cirrus83

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Vast majority of undocumented immigrants are Mexican. Sure there are some Guetemaltecos y Hondurenos, but I was taking an educated guess.

lol, the op has a SSN for one thing, and mostly it sounds like she's only undocumented to the extent that her lawyer screwed up her application for permanent residency. There's absolutely no reason to assume the OP is Mexican.

I think you've lived in the south/southwest too long or something, since there's plenty of illegal immigrants from Asia, Eastern Europe, South America, etc. I personally know people whose parents illegally immigrated from Hong Kong (after illegally immigrating TO Hong Kong from China even), Ukraine (technically the USSR back then, but from the part that is now Ukraine), and Nicaragua (although I think the last leg was a path through Mexico), so to just assume someone is from Mexico is pretty idiotic. In fact, I know ZERO illegal Mexican immigrants.
Oh and none of those people are illegal immigrants anymore, since they've all gotten either citizenship or permanent residency one way or another. Well, except the one guy who almost got deported because of a conviction, but then they couldn't because the USSR technically doesn't exist anymore. That's pretty neat no? Being an illegal immigrant they can't deport because your country is gone.
Oh and although the OP might not have used their real name as their username (although I've seen people do this), the choice of username still would suggest against being an illegal Mexican immigrant.
 

Cirrus83

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Actually, no. As long as you don't owe taxes, the IRS doesn't chase down/report to INS. Many folks work for years on a SSN without papers...

Yeah, in fact, you can commit crimes and pay taxes on your criminal profits. That's how they got Capone, on tax evasion for not reporting his criminal profits, since they had a hard time proving he had done anything criminal.

The IRS just cares about you paying them.
 

khadija

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:confused: Hi, can someone please help me?
I have legal SSN, pay taxes, work, senior at school, but have no green card or citizenship. The story is long, my lawer messed up my case, left me without legal status and the only thing I can do is get married or wait for law to change. I have no intentions on getting married, and so far no changes in law. My goal is to find the way and get in med school. What should I do? There is a criminal background check so I cannot lie and say that I am, although one advisor told me to go for it, since i have no criminal record, bur still some people would consider me a criminal. Does anyone have any helpful ideas? PLEASE HELP:luck:

first, i want to say that u have my symapthies. knowing a lot of ppl who r immigrants (legal and illegal), i know how hard things r for u guys. don't worry about the criminal record check. thats only for arrests and felonies, not immigration status. but don't lie to the school either (if they ask directly, otherwise don't say anything). if u need loans to pay for med school, then i say u're chances r pretty much non-existant for going to med school. But if u have the money to pay for it, then i don't think it should be as much a problem.

but have u thought about nursing? i would recommend that u get ur nursing degree first. there is a shortage of nurses, so this is a quick way to get a green card. its also related to the work u will do as a doctor. then u can go to med school after being legalized. its better than getting married.
 

gary5

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There are multiple forms and exams that ask if you're a U.S. citizen, while applying to med school and during med school. I expect that it would be difficult to get around this. I forget what kind of proof they ask for or if they do their own research.
 

Mr. Itchy

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you're an example of why UMich tries really hard to accept diverse students (for undergrad and grad schools).

Is this the same Umich that was smacked down by the supreme court for blatant and unconstitutional racial discrimination?


Yes, a model example.
 
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pitupitu

:confused: Hi, can someone please help me?
I have legal SSN, pay taxes, work, senior at school, but have no green card or citizenship. The story is long, my lawer messed up my case, left me without legal status and the only thing I can do is get married or wait for law to change. I have no intentions on getting married, and so far no changes in law. My goal is to find the way and get in med school. What should I do? There is a criminal background check so I cannot lie and say that I am, although one advisor told me to go for it, since i have no criminal record, bur still some people would consider me a criminal. Does anyone have any helpful ideas? PLEASE HELP:luck:

My experience as a degreed linguist and my fluency in Spanish both tell me that OP's first language is definitely not Spanish. Still, I must say that illegal alien = ILLEGAL alien, and illegal = criminal.

I would be really pissed if they the OP in with such a status. If one of us tried going to another (civilized) country ILLEGALLY and getting into one of its most competitive academic institutions, we'd be treated like common criminals. But not in the U.S., noooooo...we're too PC for that. We even give them incentives for coming here! WTF?!
 

nadica31

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gooly pple...you all re going to be doctors and cant even distuingish that the OPs name on the SDN is soooo not mexican...c'mon, even a 4 yr old child can tell you that,....either way, he can be in school and working with a student visa ( student jobs) and pay taxes..oki, now u need to tell us, whats ur status as of right now..u said, ur senior, meaning ur going to school here, meaning you should have a legal f1 visa...now if you dont, but u were working on ur case for green card and ur lawyer messed up and u got denied, u need to talk to the int'l office at ur school and get ur status str8 or u mite get deported..yes, you will get deported unless ur lucky..he could however have false documents ( this country has so much criminal as it is, trust me, theres lots of illegal students out there) the quesiton is, if you want one day to be a doctor you cant ever allow to have an illegal status..either way, if you could get ur school to get u the f1 visa, then you would be okey..im sure even if you had a period of undocumented status on your file, you can always explain that in ur application/interview, and they will understand as long as it wasn't your fault...good luck and PM me if you have any more questions...By the way, by his name guys he should be slavic and we are WHITE!!!and as someone mentioned above, thres lots of illegal eastern european as well, so no need to stereotype on the mexicans only:)
 
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