Below the class average...

[CarlosDanger]

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[NickNaylor]

I don't have any particular advice, but just remember that you're now a part of a much more ambitious, much higher achieving cohort than you likely ever have been before. Someone has to be at the bottom of the class, and most people in med school are halfway intelligent and driven. Being in the bottom half of the class isn't a knock on you necessarily.

Keep in mind that this is more of an issue if you're considering something competitive, where doing well is important (if only for AOA purposes). Beyond that, I'm not sure there's much else to say beyond working harder and honing your study skills.

Good luck.

 

[DermViser]

How were you inefficient?

 

[mvenus929]

I very quickly decided that I'd rather do other things than study and get in the top of the class. I was somewhere around average in my class, maybe slightly below. I got used to it and moved on.

 

[CarlosDanger]

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[DermViser]

I was just having a hard time focusing for some reason - I was getting tired and distracted really easily. I haven't been in a graded course in about 3 years so that may have been part of it.

I was also writing out flashcards by hand which took a lot of time and was exhausting. After day 4 or 5 I gave that up and started typing everything

Why were you anxious? The key is to keep up with the material as close as you can without burning out. Listening to lectures at 1.5 speed is helpful and taking notes then with constant repetition to cement the material in your head.

 

[NickNaylor]

I was just having a hard time focusing for some reason - I was getting tired and distracted really easily. I haven't been in a graded course in about 3 years so that may have been part of it.

I was also writing out flashcards by hand which took a lot of time and was exhausting. After day 4 or 5 I gave that up and started typing everything

If you're a fan of flash cards, have you ever checked out Anki? Or something similar?

 

[ChEMD]

Work to make your studying as efficient as possible, work as hard as you can while staying sane, and then accept the results. The last part is really the hardest, but it may turn out that you're average or below average in your class. Theres nothing wrong with being average amongst a group of very intelligent people, but often people can't accept that, and they end up unhappy and stressed, which ends up making their performance even worse.

 

[Arkangeloid]

If I could be a merely below average student, I would be so happy...

#4thquartile4life, #yolo, #EverybodyScornsMe


Just saying dude, it could be much worse



Oh, and let me give you some advice. Don't tell peeps about your scores. Trust me, when people find out that you're below average, NOBODY will ever want to study with you, or be in your group for crap. I found this out the hard way.

 

[TheShaker]

Legit question: Isn't the average in most medical school classes around a B?

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Legit question: Isn't the average in most medical school classes around a B?

If the grading scheme exists, then yes. Where the scale is placed is somewhat arbitrary and pointless.

 

[DermViser]

Work to make your studying as efficient as possible, work as hard as you can while staying sane, and then accept the results. The last part is really the hardest, but it may turn out that you're average or below average in your class. Theres nothing wrong with being average amongst a group of very intelligent people, but often people can't accept that, and they end up unhappy and stressed, which ends up making their performance even worse.

THIS.

 

[Spikebd]

If the grading scheme exists, then yes. Where the scale is placed is somewhat arbitrary and pointless.

It depends on the class you're taking. Most everyone in med school can nail the easy questions that make up 75% of a test.

 

[Southplains]

If I could be a merely below average student, I would be so happy...

#4thquartile4life, #yolo, #EverybodyScornsMe


Just saying dude, it could be much worse



Oh, and let me give you some advice. Don't tell peeps about your scores. Trust me, when people find out that you're below average, NOBODY will ever want to study with you, or be in your group for crap. I found this out the hard way.

Yeah but screw those guys. I hope the majority of your class doesn't have that kind of attitude, it's pretty immature. The real truth is as pre-clinical medical students, we're no better than pre-med students. No one gives a **** you can bubble the correct answer in the clinic (I guess with the exception of PDs around match list ranking time..) and you should just do your thing and get through.

 

[compstomper]

Today I got my score back for the first major exam and I scored a couple points below the class average. I did ok and passed, and the class average was pretty high I thought. I didn't necessarily expect to be at the top for this one, given my studying was pretty inefficient for the first week or so of class, but still - being below average kinda sucks. I'm sure the right answer is to just study harder and better for the next exam and do better, but just wondering if anyone else had the experience of being towards the back of the pack early on and improving. My questions are -

1. Did you older students find it hard to score consistently where you wanted to during the first 2 years (relative to the rest of your class)?

2. My school has a post bacc that takes a fair amount of students (not sure how many). Those students have already had the exact same classes we're taking last year, so I feel like they're pulling up the averages. Maybe thats just an excuse though. Does anyone else have that at their school? I guess come second year, we'll all be on the same level, but still.

Although I have nothing of substance to contribute to this conversation as my exam is tomorrow, I feel compelled to tell you that the epicness of your avatar is dwarfed only by your name.

 

[Ismet]

Legit question: Isn't the average in most medical school classes around a B?

Drastically depends on the course and the difficulty of the exam. We had a course where the average was in the 50's. Usually the average is in the 70's-80's, but it's not consistently in the 80's by any means.

 

[cbrons]

Just don't waste time going to class and if your lecturer is bad don't watch the podcast or be afraid to find a different resource and teach yourself everything.

The kids who are obsessive-compulsive about going to class regardless of value and doing 5 hr/day anki memorize w/o understanding sessions seem to suffer the most in med school.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

 

[AMEHigh]

I very quickly decided that I'd rather do other things than study and get in the top of the class. I was somewhere around average in my class, maybe slightly below. I got used to it and moved on.

Ditto this. If I could go back and do things again I'd probably focus on trying to do a slightly better so I could've been a little more prepared for Step 1. But overall I'm happy that I was able to keep my school-life balance during the first 2 years of med school, which lead me to be an average student. I'm ok with that and have other strengths outside of getting all As on my tests.

 

[Kaustikos]

Just don't waste time going to class and if your lecturer is bad don't watch the podcast or be afraid to find a different resource and teach yourself everything.

But what if class is mandatory?

 

[Frazier]

If you take 100 students that have, up to that point, dominated everything academic set before them and are also able to make it that all 100 are in full steam efficiency/study/absorption mode...

50 of them are still going to be in the bottom half of the class.

Do the best you can and accept the level to which you are willing to commit.

 

[mimelim]

Today I got my score back for the first major exam and I scored a couple points below the class average. I did ok and passed, and the class average was pretty high I thought. I didn't necessarily expect to be at the top for this one, given my studying was pretty inefficient for the first week or so of class, but still - being below average kinda sucks. I'm sure the right answer is to just study harder and better for the next exam and do better, but just wondering if anyone else had the experience of being towards the back of the pack early on and improving. My questions are -

1. Did you older students find it hard to score consistently where you wanted to during the first 2 years (relative to the rest of your class)?

2. My school has a post bacc that takes a fair amount of students (not sure how many). Those students have already had the exact same classes we're taking last year, so I feel like they're pulling up the averages. Maybe thats just an excuse though. Does anyone else have that at their school? I guess come second year, we'll all be on the same level, but still.

Answer the question: Why does 'being below average (in pre-clinical classes) kinda suck'?

There is a reason nobody cares about pre-clinical grades.

 

[GUH]

If I could be a merely below average student, I would be so happy...

#4thquartile4life, #yolo, #EverybodyScornsMe


Just saying dude, it could be much worse



Oh, and let me give you some advice. Don't tell peeps about your scores. Trust me, when people find out that you're below average, NOBODY will ever want to study with you, or be in your group for crap. I found this out the hard way.

I know a "friend" in a similar situation grades-wise but he isn't scorned. Maybe it's a DO thing though.

 

[TheShaker]

But what if class is mandatory?

Isn't that what they call "hell"?

 

[Serous Demilune]

Isn't that what they call "hell"?

I would seriously consider dropping out. I don't know if my passion for medicine could stand up to a 3 hour lecture on histo or pharm.

 

[DermViser]

Answer the question: Why does 'being below average (in pre-clinical classes) kinda suck'?

There is a reason nobody cares about pre-clinical grades.

Because we define our entire being and self-worth by letter grades, which we replace (A/B/C/D/F) with (H/HP/SP/MP/F) as well as which quartile we rank in the class.

 

[PL198]

Answer the question: Why does 'being below average (in pre-clinical classes) kinda suck'?

There is a reason nobody cares about pre-clinical grades.

tell me your pre-clinical averages were below average and I'm about to attack step 1 so hard instead of doing class stuff

 

[Kaustikos]

Isn't that what they call "hell"?

I would seriously consider dropping out. I don't know if my passion for medicine could stand up to a 3 hour lecture on histo or pharm.

Oh... that explains a lot. They told me it was a medical school.

 

[Nephronlearner]

1st couple of months of medical school are mostly about finding your own way to study and finding the right work-life balance. For as long as you comfortably pass your classes, you are satisfying the criteria set by your school. If you know you were inefficient in any way and if you know you could have done better (and still managed to pass comfortably), I think you are in pretty good shape to do really well later on.

 

[Arkangeloid]

I know a "friend" in a similar situation grades-wise but he isn't scorned. Maybe it's a DO thing though.

I think so. I know several DO students, and they tend to be kind, friendly, more relaxed, and less judgmental. Perhaps it's because they tend to be more from older and nontrad backgrounds, and have more of a sense of perspective.

MD students, especially at my school, tend to be more high-strung, status-obsessed people. And grades are a measure of that status, so you can bet your ass that people will judge each other on those grounds.

 

[mcloaf]

MD students, especially at my school, tend to be more high-strung, status-obsessed people. And grades are a measure of that status, so you can bet your ass that people will judge each other on those grounds.

It could just be that you go to school with dbags. The MD students at my school wouldn't trash talk people for low grades or scorn them. If anything they'd offer help.

If you conduct yourself in person the way you do on here I suspect the issue might be less related to grades than you make out (i.e. "all my female classmates can just marry rich anyway amirite?"). Not trying to be an dingus when I say this, just something to consider.

Edit: didn't realize SDN now changes a-hole to dingus rather than just ***'ing it out. Interesting.

 

[Arkangeloid]

It could just be that you go to school with dbags. The MD students at my school wouldn't trash talk people for low grades or scorn them. If anything they'd offer help.

If you conduct yourself in person the way you do on here I suspect the issue might be less related to grades than you make out (i.e. "all my female classmates can just marry rich anyway amirite?"). Not trying to be an dingus when I say this, just something to consider.

Edit: didn't realize SDN now changes a-hole to dingus rather than just ***'ing it out. Interesting.

Nah, I don't say this stuff in public, just on SDN. I'm not stupid, I know that sometimes, the truth is better left unsaid.

 

[DermViser]

I think so. I know several DO students, and they tend to be kind, friendly, more relaxed, and less judgmental. Perhaps it's because they tend to be more from older and nontrad backgrounds, and have more of a sense of perspective.

MD students, especially at my school, tend to be more high-strung, status-obsessed people. And grades are a measure of that status, so you can bet your ass that people will judge each other on those grounds.

While normally I would call you out here on this observation, it is relatively true. It's definitely the type of student they recruit, esp. if you look at matriculation statistics - which isn't surprising. MD schools, esp. the more established ones, recruit a higher GPA/MCAT, who tend to be more grades-centric, who will then gravitate towards "higher status" specialties (what they believe to be "higher-status"). Not surprisingly they also tend to have very little actual life experience as well.

I don't know about DO school, but yes, at least in MD school, not a good idea at all to tell people your grades, EVER.

 

[Ismet]

Nah, I don't say this stuff in public, just on SDN. I'm not stupid, I know that sometimes, the truth is better left unsaid.

The people on SDN are human just like the people you interact with in real life, you're just hiding behind a very thin layer of anonymity here so you think you can say whatever you want, no matter how insulting or offensive to others. I am sure this personality of yours comes out in person and you're not as good at hiding it as you might think. Maybe you'll get more positive reactions from people in life and on SDN if you have a better attitude and actually learn WHY some of the stuff you say is offensive.

 

[DermViser]

It could just be that you go to school with dbags. The MD students at my school wouldn't trash talk people for low grades or scorn them. If anything they'd offer help.

Depends very much on the student body. Let's just say certain medical schools have a student body that leaves much to be desired with respect to comradery and collaboration. I believe a lot of it is fear-induced, where people who aren't doing as well can be treated like the plague. Depending on who you are, medical school can change you quite a bit across the 4 years. You figure out quickly who your real friends are in this process.

 

[DermViser]

The people on SDN are human just like the people you interact with in real life, you're just hiding behind a very thin layer of anonymity here so you think you can say whatever you want, no matter how insulting or offensive to others. I am sure this personality of yours comes out in person and you're not as good at hiding it as you might think. Maybe you'll get more positive reactions from people in life and on SDN if you have a better attitude and actually learn WHY some of the stuff you say is offensive.

To be fair, I don't believe he's purposefully trying to be offensive. He just doesn't realize that it is. It's difficult for some people.

 

[DermViser]

Oh, and let me give you some advice. Don't tell peeps about your scores. Trust me, when people find out that you're below average, NOBODY will ever want to study with you, or be in your group for crap. I found this out the hard way.

Maybe they detect low self-esteem as well, so naturally if you don't believe in yourself, why would they? It isn't just med school, it's MS-3, residency, and life.

 

[Arkangeloid]

The people on SDN are human just like the people you interact with in real life, you're just hiding behind a very thin layer of anonymity here so you think you can say whatever you want, no matter how insulting or offensive to others. I am sure this personality of yours comes out in person and you're not as good at hiding it as you might think. Maybe you'll get more positive reactions from people in life and on SDN if you have a better attitude and actually learn WHY some of the stuff you say is offensive.

Very thin? What makes you say that?


Or are you threatening me?

 

[DermViser]

Very thin? What makes you say that?

Or are you threatening me?

You're reading WAY too much into words and taking it personally, and missing context. Again.

 

[Arkangeloid]

While normally I would call you out here on this observation, it is relatively true. It's definitely the type of student they recruit, esp. if you look at matriculation statistics - which isn't surprising. MD schools, esp. the more established ones, recruit a higher GPA/MCAT, who tend to be more grades-centric, who will then gravitate towards "higher status" specialties (what they believe to be "higher-status"). Not surprisingly they also tend to have very little actual life experience as well.

I don't know about DO school, but yes, at least in MD school, not a good idea at all to tell people your grades, EVER.

Every year, more people from our school match into Plastic Surgery than Family Practice. That should tell people enough about what med students here value.

 

[Ismet]

Very thin? What makes you say that?


Or are you threatening me?

Of course I'm not threatening you. You're never truly anonymous on the internet. That's true whether it's SDN or any other forum. For instance, how many schools are doing pulm right now? You've said in multiple threads that you are studying for pulm, and that the pulm physiology exam is notoriously difficult. All it takes is someone from your school to see that, make the connection, and start figuring out who you are. Just saying, it's very hard to be anonymous on the internet. My point was that since you know that some of the stuff you say on SDN wouldn't be okay to say in real life, I thought I'd point out that you're not as anonymous as you might think.

 

[DermViser]

Every year, more people from our school match into Plastic Surgery than Family Practice. That should tell people enough about what med students here value.

Depends also highly on the number of people in your class. That being said, the number of people who match into Integrated Plastics is quite small compared to the entire medical school population. Not everyone wants to do Plastics esp. bc of the number of years in that residency. As far as Family Practice being shunned - that's been the case for decades, not just bc of reimbursement but also govt. mandates for primary care, and changing practice models, as well as scope of knowledge needed in that specialty.

 

[hallowmann]

I know a "friend" in a similar situation grades-wise but he isn't scorned. Maybe it's a DO thing though.

Yeah, I definitely study with people like that. We mainly study with people who's personalities we like. No one is really checking each other's scores. Honestly though, I'm not huge on the group studying, maybe that's a bad thing...

I think so. I know several DO students, and they tend to be kind, friendly, more relaxed, and less judgmental. Perhaps it's because they tend to be more from older and nontrad backgrounds, and have more of a sense of perspective.

MD students, especially at my school, tend to be more high-strung, status-obsessed people. And grades are a measure of that status, so you can bet your ass that people will judge each other on those grounds.

Really? I think this has to be school specific. I have definitely heard this from some MD student friends, but is the difference really that pronounced?

To begin with the idea that studying with people that are doing worse than you would significantly affect your med school grade is ridiculous. You get what you put into it. Studying with people in 4th (let alone 3rd) quartile vs. people in 2nd quartile isn't going to significantly affect your grades. I could see wanting to study with the 1st quartile kids if you aren't getting stuff, but not at the expense of others. Besides the major difference I see between the 1st quartile kids and the 2nd quartile kids is amount of study time.

It could just be that you go to school with dbags. The MD students at my school wouldn't trash talk people for low grades or scorn them. If anything they'd offer help.....

Definitely think its school-specific.

...I don't know about DO school, but yes, at least in MD school, not a good idea at all to tell people your grades, EVER.

People don't shun people for doing poorly at my DO school (in fact I'm a little surprised at how willing people are to say they failed stuff here). That said, focusing on other people's grades is probably not ideal at any med school.

 

[DermViser]

To begin with the idea that studying with people that are doing worse than you would significantly affect your med school grade is ridiculous. You get what you put into it. Studying with people in 4th (let alone 3rd) quartile vs. people in 2nd quartile isn't going to significantly affect your grades. I could see wanting to study with the 1st quartile kids if you aren't getting stuff, but not at the expense of others. Besides the major difference I see between the 1st quartile kids and the 2nd quartile kids is amount of study time.

Unless those people feel that you're impeding their time/studying by asking a lot of questions or "dumb" questions. I believe he is referring to group study.

 

[hallowmann]

Unless those people feel that you're impeding their time/studying by asking a lot of questions or "dumb" questions. I believe he is referring to group study.

Maybe its because I consider "group study" time, review time. I don't know. I still think having to explain the dumb and probably some not-so-dumb questions to someone with less of a grasp on the material than you inherently helps your retention of the material and the depth of your knowledge in it. Like I said though, I was never big on the group study scene, so maybe I don't get it.

 

[DermViser]

Maybe its because I consider "group study" time, review time. I don't know. I still think having to explain the dumb and probably some not-so-dumb questions to someone with less of a grasp on the material than you inherently helps your retention of the material and the depth of your knowledge in it. Like I said though, I was never big on the group study scene, so maybe I don't get it.

I agree. That's why I liked group study. Someone else's strengths could help you on your weaknesses. I guess it depends on how long it takes to help the person who isn't getting it.

 

[Arkangeloid]

Unless those people feel that you're impeding their time/studying by asking a lot of questions or "dumb" questions. I believe he is referring to group study.

Ideally I would like to talk about group studying (I see it as a way to review stuff and get another perspective on the material, which is important). People have offered to group study with me, but whenever I pressed the matter and took them up on it, they mysteriously started ignoring me (lol).

It's just like being back in undergrad, where people would make friendly overtures on Facebook about partying with you, but you would never see them, and if you said "hi" some time later, they would just ignore you. Probably after they remembered that you're too low-status to go to their parties, I suppose.

 

[DermViser]

Ideally I would like to talk about group studying (I see it as a way to review stuff and get another perspective on the material, which is important). People have offered to group study with me, but whenever I pressed the matter and took them up on it, they mysteriously started ignoring me (lol).

It's just like being back in undergrad, where people would make friendly overtures on Facebook about partying with you, but you would never see them, and if you said "hi" some time later, they would just ignore you. Probably after they remembered that you're too low-status to go to their parties, I suppose.

I really think the way you're viewing people's intents and they way they see you is quite off (not surprising). And it's a vicious snowball in which you only let in stimuli that supports how you feel and discounting other stuff that negates it. It's funny in college, the same people who would complain about people not talking to them 9 times out of 10, were people who didn't talk and try to make friends either. They sort of expected people to make overtures. Friendships work both ways, and it's completely unfair to expect people to read your mind.

 

[hallowmann]

Ideally I would like to talk about group studying (I see it as a way to review stuff and get another perspective on the material, which is important). People have offered to group study with me, but whenever I pressed the matter and took them up on it, they mysteriously started ignoring me (lol).

It's just like being back in undergrad, where people would make friendly overtures on Facebook about partying with you, but you would never see them, and if you said "hi" some time later, they would just ignore you. Probably after they remembered that you're too low-status to go to their parties, I suppose.

Woah there. Are you sure you aren't taking their actions a little personally? Its possible they just didn't have much time when you contacted them. For example, I wouldn't consider group studying with anyone a week before a PBL exam. Its possible they have their own stuff going on, and they were genuine when they made the offer. More times than not people's actions (and attitudes) have less to do with you, than they do with themselves. I wouldn't be so quick to assume they have ill intent.

 

[mimelim]

tell me your pre-clinical averages were below average and I'm about to attack step 1 so hard instead of doing class stuff

I honored one class during preclinical and got 250+ on Step 1.

 

[DermViser]

I honored one class during preclinical and got 250+ on Step 1.

Your experience is hardly what the majority of medical students in this country experience. You tend to be at the head of the bell curve in many respects, mimelim. Hardly indicative of the norm.