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NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS: Obviously, you got a quite a round of applause there. Some in that room and elsewhere since that video has gone viral have said you should run for president. What do you think of that?
DR. CARSON: I've always said if God grabs me by the collar and sticks me in that arena, that's the only way that I'll do it... I'm actually going to retire in June from surgery... so it does open up a lot of possibilities for me.
Thoughts?

- pod
 

pgg

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Flat taxer who doesn't like Obamacare, so far so good. What are his other views?

I don't think he's ever held political office. For that reason alone I don't think I could vote for him for president.


the renown neurosurgeon announced that he plans to retire from surgery in June to teach, because “an uneducated populace will fall for anything”
But I like his style.
 
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Flat taxer who doesn't like Obamacare, so far so good. What are his other views?
I don't think he's ever held political office. For that reason alone I don't think I could vote for him for president.

But I like his style.
From what I remember when he was coming to Emory for the commencement speech, he is a staunch creationist who thinks that everyone who believes in evolution is amoral because they don't believe that an imaginary friend is watching them from the heavens and hence have a free pass to do evil as they may please.
He seems like a pretty typical, staunchly religious, black guy who rose out of poverty and became a success story for his surgical skill and the fact that he was a minority so everyone cheered him on. There are no parallels between him and Obama, who despite all his shortcomings, is a very savvy political operator and strategist.
I'd take my kid to Carson for brain surgery, but not for anything else. He may do fine as a senator or congressman, but has no hope of being president.
 
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NightNight

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Flat taxer who doesn't like Obamacare, so far so good. What are his other views?

I don't think he's ever held political office. For that reason alone I don't think I could vote for him for president.




But I like his style.
Seems like a plus to me...
 

Random Anesthesiologist

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From what I remember when he was coming to Emory for the commencement speech, he is a staunch creationist who thinks that everyone who believes in evolution is amoral because they don't believe that an imaginary friend is watching them from the heavens and hence have a free pass to do evil as they may please.
He seems like a pretty typical, staunchly religious, black guy who rose out of poverty and became a success story for his surgical skill and the fact that he was a minority so everyone cheered him on. There are no parallels between him and Obama, who despite all his shortcomings, is a very savvy political operator and strategist.
I'd take my kid to Carson for brain surgery, but not for anything else. He may do fine as a senator or congressman, but has no hope of being president.
Or, you could actually find out what he really said.

Also, the current President is a creationist in some form, since he openly states he believes in God and states he is a Christian. Unless he's lying about that, too ;)

He doesn't seem like a typical black guy to me at all. But then again, what's "typical"?

I'd take my kid to Carson for surgery, too. I'd probably take my kid to see Obama, too. But I'd emphasize to my (actual, not hypothetical) kid that one of these guys is a person to look up to, and one is a perfect example of arrogance.
 
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I don't think he's ever held political office. For that reason alone I don't think I could vote for him for president. But I like his style.
What if he served 2/3rds of a federal senate term and a couple of state senate terms? :smuggrin:

He seems like a pretty typical, staunchly religious, black guy who rose out of poverty and became a success story for his surgical skill and the fact that he was a minority so everyone cheered him on. There are no parallels between him and Obama, who despite all his shortcomings, is a very savvy political operator and strategist.
I'd take my kid to Carson for brain surgery, but not for anything else. He may do fine as a senator or congressman, but has no hope of being president.
That's the whole point, he is the anti-Obama. Personally successful prior to seeking office. What did Obama do before becoming a state sen again? Obama used the system to become President. Carson used the system to become a profoundly successful and respected neurosurgeon. Much props to both for the temerity to follow the paths that they did.

As one of the resident atheist curmudgeons, I would love nothing more then to have a solid, somewhat fiscally conservative, socially libertarian candidate who isn't burdened with the veil of religion. Realistically speaking it is not happening, The best we can hope for is a non-commital candidate like Gary Johnson. That being said, of all the faults that I could not overlook in a candidate who I otherwise agree with, religion is not in the top ten.

He might be nothing more than just another Herman Cain, but my interest is piqued.

- pod
 
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Being successful at neurosurgery says absolutely nothing about his ability to lead. Would a brilliant anesthesiologist be great at leading a pack of infantrymen in war? Obama was a career politician and strategist. That is what you need to be a politician. In fact, all I see is that Carson completely lacks the flexibility to accomodate other points of views. He is the next Herman Cain.
 

Random Anesthesiologist

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Yeah, I get it. He appeals to conservatives. As a neurosurgeon he probably frequents victims of another 'theory' - gravity. I wonder what his views are about that. Thankfully, the electorate is quite wise in their selections.
Here is the article that started this:
http://www.adventistreview.org/2004-1509/story2.html

Here are his exact words:
Q: How does this happen? What are the consequences of accepting evolutionary views of human origins? How does this affect society and the way we see ourselves?
By believing we are the product of random acts, we eliminate morality and the basis of ethical behavior. For if there is no such thing as moral authority, you can do anything you want. You make everything relative, and there's no reason for any of our higher values.
Yes, they ran this article. And Carson later clarified that they did not print everything he said about the topic. Did you read my link?

It's fairly obvious you have disdain for anyone with a religious belief. I just want you to clarify this to save me the trouble of trying to debate something of this nature with someone who has no religious tolerance.
 

Random Anesthesiologist

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What if he served 2/3rds of a federal senate term and a couple of state senate terms? :smuggrin:



That's the whole point, he is the anti-Obama. Personally successful prior to seeking office. What did Obama do before becoming a state sen again? Obama used the system to become President. Carson used the system to become a profoundly successful and respected neurosurgeon. Much props to both for the temerity to follow the paths that they did.

As one of the resident atheist curmudgeons, I would love nothing more then to have a solid, somewhat fiscally conservative, socially libertarian candidate who isn't burdened with the veil of religion. Realistically speaking it is not happening, The best we can hope for is a non-commital candidate like Gary Johnson. That being said, of all the faults that I could not overlook in a candidate who I otherwise agree with, religion is not in the top ten.

He might be nothing more than just another Herman Cain, but my interest is piqued.

- pod
:thumbup: This was nice to see.

I am religious, but I recognize the role of secular government, individual freedom, and free will.
 
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http://www.adventistreview.org/2004-1509/story2.html

Here are his exact words:
Q: How does this happen? What are the consequences of accepting evolutionary views of human origins? How does this affect society and the way we see ourselves?
By believing we are the product of random acts, we eliminate morality and the basis of ethical behavior. For if there is no such thing as moral authority, you can do anything you want. You make everything relative, and there's no reason for any of our higher values.


Carson told Inside Higher Ed he doesn’t believe that people who believe in evolution are unethical. The Adventist Review condensed that quote, he said.

Carson wishes the Emory letter writers had asked him for clarification before writing their letter.

“It would have been extremely courteous if they had asked me whether it was true that I said people who are evolutionist are unethical, which I never did,” Carson said. “Those of us who believe in God and derive our sense of right and wrong and ethics from God’s word really have no difficulty whatsoever defining where our ethics come from. People who believe in survival of the fittest might have more difficulty deriving where their ethics come from. A lot of evolutionists are very ethical people.”


Read more: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/05/08/commencement-speakers-creationist-views-prompt-criticism-emory#ixzz2KiIBcW2p
Inside Higher Ed .
Can't believe that I am defending a creationist. :laugh:

- pod
 
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Yes, they ran this article. And Carson later clarified that they did not print everything he said about the topic. Did you read my link?

It's fairly obvious you have disdain for anyone with a religious belief. I just want you to clarify this to save me the trouble of trying to debate something of this nature with someone who has no religious tolerance.
Some of the best people I have worked with are devoutely religious and highly successful professional. They don't use their professional success as a pedestal to push their religious beliefs and judgments. Your imaginary friend is better than my imaginary friend - I get it. I just don't want to know who your imaginary friend is or want to tell who mine is, because that is my own personal matter and it should be your own personal matter as well.
 

Random Anesthesiologist

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Being successful at neurosurgery says absolutely nothing about his ability to lead. Would a brilliant anesthesiologist be great at leading a pack of infantrymen in war? Obama was a career politician and strategist. That is what you need to be a politician. In fact, all I see is that Carson completely lacks the flexibility to accomodate other points of views. He is the next Herman Cain.
What leadership roles with responsibility has Obama ever had? How about responsibility with human life? More American troops and civilians have been killed under his leadership than the alleged war-criminal Bush. Perhaps someone who deals in life and death issues on a daily basis would be a bit more sensitive to this.

And what about promoting fiscal responsibility? We all know the track record Obama has on that :)thumbdown). You'd think someone like Carson, whose success depends on his ability to perform well would be important, compared to someone whose success has been dependent on popularity and hero status rather than a job well done. And what experience does Obama have in the fiscal department prior to presidency? Running non-for-profits into the dirt.

You don't get to be a well-trained and well-respected neurosurgeon without a bit of diplomatic prowess. There was a time not long ago when this country was up in arms about a Catholic (gasp) being president, too.
 

Random Anesthesiologist

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Some of the best people I have worked with are devoutely religious and highly successful professional. They don't use their professional success as a pedestal to push their religious beliefs and judgments. Your imaginary friend is better than my imaginary friend - I get it. I just don't want to know who your imaginary friend is or want to tell who mine is, because that is my own personal matter and it should be your own personal matter as well.
The fact that you refer to my "imaginary friend" is hostile enough. It is a personal matter, and I've not tried to push it on you. I've stuck strictly to the topic at hand.

You, on the other hand, feel free to denigrate the religious, with Carson as your effigy, by snark and venom. No one is challenging your atheism here. Maybe show a little respect for those who don't believe what you believe. Unless, of course, as I thought - maybe you just aren't capable of religious tolerance or carrying on a discussion about religion without getting personal.
 

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Of course he's a "creationist" or he wouldn't have been invited to speak at the National Prayer Breakfast ;-)

Saw a follow up interview with him where he said, "I'm not a democrat and I'm not a republican. If there was a logic party, I'd joint that"

I haven't heard enough of his political views to determine how libertarian he is, but it sounds promising...

I read his autobiography many years ago and didn't realize he had written more books or was making political speeches. It will definitely be interesting keeping an eye on him!
 
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Being successful at neurosurgery says absolutely nothing about his ability to lead. Would a brilliant anesthesiologist be great at leading a pack of infantrymen in war? Obama was a career politician and strategist. That is what you need to be a politician. In fact, all I see is that Carson completely lacks the flexibility to accomodate other points of views. He is the next Herman Cain.
Neither does successfully navigating the treacherous waters of modern day politics and yet...

Of course, Ben Carson has served as The Johns Hopkins Division of Pediatric Neurosurgery Director since 1984 and The Johns Hopkins Cleft and Craniofacial Center Co-Director since 1991. He has served as the PI and Co-investigator on multiple research projects. I will go out on a limb here and say that his leadership experience far outweighs the leadership experience garnered by a certain community organizer prior to his entry into politics.

I will take a physician with that kind of CV any day of the week over a career politician.

Still a lot to learn about this guy, but I am impressed by anyone who has the cojones to take a stand like he did right in front of the President.

- pod
 

pgg

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Seems like a plus to me...
Until he goes all Ross Perot or Herman Cain. I wouldn't vote for anyone for president without at least SOME kind of public service record to review.

If this guy's awesome, fine, he can run for Congress or the Senate or state office first. We need good people in those jobs, and he could prove his ability to actually advance his ideas while facing some opposition.


What if he served 2/3rds of a federal senate term and a couple of state senate terms? :smuggrin:
Hmm. How are his organizational skills?

The best we can hope for is a non-commital candidate like Gary Johnson.
I'd love to see him run again, and get through the R primary. I'd like to have a candidate I could genuinely support, rather than sadly accept some semi-schmuck as the hopeful best of bad choices.
 

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Being successful at neurosurgery says absolutely nothing about his ability to lead. Would a brilliant anesthesiologist be great at leading a pack of infantrymen in war? Obama was a career politician and strategist. That is what you need to be a politician. In fact, all I see is that Carson completely lacks the flexibility to accomodate other points of views. He is the next Herman Cain.
I would take Herman Cain and Ben Carson any day before the idiot that currently resides in the White House.
 

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The fact that you refer to my "imaginary friend" is hostile enough. It is a personal matter, and I've not tried to push it on you. I've stuck strictly to the topic at hand.

You, on the other hand, feel free to denigrate the religious, with Carson as your effigy, by snark and venom. No one is challenging your atheism here. Maybe show a little respect for those who don't believe what you believe. Unless, of course, as I thought - maybe you just aren't capable of religious tolerance or carrying on a discussion about religion without getting personal.
That seems to be the standard for atheists. Maybe the atheist religion has a tenet that one must be hostile to anyone who has a religious faith of any sort.
 

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That seems to be the standard for atheists. Maybe the atheist religion has a tenet that one must be hostile to anyone who has a religious faith of any sort.
Settle down. There are at least two atheists in this thread besides Noegrus, and I can't remember either of us ever once expressing contempt or hostility toward religious people. I've got a family full of them, and periopdoc does too. You've been here long enough to know us.
 

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Settle down. There are at least two atheists in this thread besides Noegrus, and I can't remember either of us ever once expressing contempt or hostility toward religious people. I've got a family full of them, and periopdoc does too. You've been here long enough to know us.
I don't recall you referring to "imaginary friend". :)
 

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I don't recall you referring to "imaginary friend". :)
I've heard 4-5 different comments about God listening, providing, helping about every random thing being talked about just this morning!
Religious people don't even know how obnoxious they are.
I know it was a minority of religious people, actually just two today.
You should know that most rational people don't go out of their way to talk about it all the time. The religious are far worse, you just probably don't notice when they are being obnoxious.
 

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No public service experience, no chance.
Run for Congress, senate, dog catcher, something.
 

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I've heard 4-5 different comments about God listening, providing, helping about every random thing being talked about just this morning!
Religious people don't even know how obnoxious they are.
I know it was a minority of religious people, actually just two today.
You should know that most rational people don't go out of their way to talk about it all the time. The religious are far worse, you just probably don't notice when they are being obnoxious.
I'm not a proseletyzer. I actually find people who wear religion on their sleeve to be quite irritating in general, whether Christian or something else, and those who take it to extremes, like the Westboro Baptist Church crowd or "the Rev." Jeremiah Wright to be quite shameful and embarassing. Most of us simply show our faith by the way we conduct ourselves in our everyday lives and our relationships with others.
 

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No public service experience, no chance.
Run for Congress, senate, dog catcher, something.
Perfect - Carson For Senate - and two years in he can run for president with a FAR better resume' than the current community organizer.
 
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It is God's will that I guide you to the right path and save you from voting for Ben Carson so he can focus on helping more kids with brain tumors. How dare you criticise me for saving kids from dying of brain tumors? :slap:
 

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It is God's will that I guide you to the right path and save you from voting for Ben Carson so he can focus on helping more kids with brain tumors. How dare you criticise me for saving kids from dying of brain tumors? :slap:
U so funny :)
 
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He should run for president simply because of his cameo in "Stuck on You" with Matt Damon and Greg Kinnear. Never mind that they were stuck at the torso and he's a neurosurgeon. Farrelly brothers movie cameo= awesome. I told him so in the elevator one day and he got all shy and blushy.
 

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He should run for president simply because of his cameo in "Stuck on You" with Matt Damon and Greg Kinnear. Never mind that they were stuck at the torso and he's a neurosurgeon. Farrelly brothers movie cameo= awesome. I told him so in the elevator one day and he got all shy and blushy.
I don't care if you think the devil created and buried dinosaur bones to lead man away from god at some point in the 6000 year history of the world.
If you're for the flat tax, and that flat rate is 25% or less, you've got my vote (unless the other candidate is better of course, but who are we kidding? He isn't)
 

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That seems to be the standard for atheists. Maybe the atheist religion has a tenet that one must be hostile to anyone who has a religious faith of any sort.
Nah. I know a few atheists who are great people. Very nice.

Jerks come in all flavors, Christian, atheist, whatever. Usually they're pretty easy to spot, and when I realize someone is a jerk, it's not that hard to ignore them.
 

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Would an . . .anesthesiologist be great at leading a pack of infantrymen in war?.
I'd like to think it worked out OK for me.

As a former infantry leader, I can tell you I would never follow BHO into battle.
 

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Random MS. There is nothing more hateful / spiteful than a left-wing-militant-atheist. Most I know want to tear down the world and rule others by straight up oppression. That is why many tend to be statist-democrats.

EDIT: I don't think Carson will succeed in political office.
 
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Random MS. There is nothing more hateful / spiteful than a left-wing-militant-atheist.
Except for a militant believer with free license from his god to carry out atrocities against his fellow man.

- pod
 

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I would rather deal with terrorism from a religious fanatic than a populous bent on controlling every aspect of my life and confiscating any wealth or skills I may gain in my life via government.

militant atheists > militant believers. They'll soon be critical mass... then we'll see the "religious fanatics" [read: any religious person] marginalized in society.

Except for a militant believer with free license from his god to carry out atrocities against his fellow man.

- pod
 
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They'll soon be critical mass... then we'll see the "religious fanatics" [read: any religious person] marginalized in society.
We can only hope. . .
 

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I'm not going to get into a religious war. I just think there are ways for both sides to show a little tact here and not compromise their own beliefs (or lack thereof).
 

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It is God's will that I guide you to the right path and save you from voting for Ben Carson so he can focus on helping more kids with brain tumors. How dare you criticise me for saving kids from dying of brain tumors? :slap:
How about Carson for U.S Surgeon General? If Sanjay Gupta (journalist and neurosurgeon) was eligible at one point, I don't see why Carson would not be either.
 

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I don't recall you referring to "imaginary friend". :)
That was exactly my point, and why I was irritated by your characterization of all atheists.


I just think there are ways for both sides to show a little tact here and not compromise their own beliefs (or lack thereof).
Agreed, an unlimited supply of politeness carries the price tag of $0.
 
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How about Carson for U.S Surgeon General? If Sanjay Gupta (journalist and neurosurgeon) was eligible at one point, I don't see why Carson would not be either.
He is very well qualified to contribute to healthcare policy. Would be a fantastic choice for a surgeon general.
Ben Carson for surgeon general!!!!! :banana:
 
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I would rather deal with terrorism from a religious fanatic than a populous bent on controlling every aspect of my life and confiscating any wealth or skills I may gain in my life via government.

militant atheists > militant believers. They'll soon be critical mass... then we'll see the "religious fanatics" [read: any religious person] marginalized in society.
Thanks to the fact that you live in a secular society, religious terrorism is only an external force that will effect you rarely if at all. There are a few religious countries that I could suggest you visit if you want to see the daily effects of religious terrorism, or, as the locals call it, religious law.

Thanks largely to secular influence and pressures, the Christian Church by and large is in a down cycle of violent behavior towards presumed non-believers and those presumed to be of a different faith. It was not always this way in the past and may not be so in the future.

You are equating atheism with socialism/ communism. While you can find examples of individuals who are both, there are plenty of capitalistic atheists and religious socialists. It would be safe to say that while atheists are over-represented in American socialist/ communist circles, the vast majority of both groups are in fact religious.

In regards to marginalization of the religious. Riiiiight. Only 5% of Americans claim to be atheists and they are the least trusted of all non-mainstream groups. Less than gays, muslims, and jews. Supposedly, we garner about the same amount of trust as rapists.

Convenient scapegoat for your " populous bent on controlling every aspect of my life and confiscating any wealth or skills I may gain in my life via government.", but no, the vast majority of people trying to do this to you are in fact religious.

- pod
 
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In regards to marginalization of the religious. Riiiiight. Only 5% of Americans claim to be atheists and they are the least trusted of all non-mainsream groups. Less than gays, muslims, and jews. Supposedly, we garner about the same amount of trust as rapists.

- pod
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet – Napoleon Bonaparte
 

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Two weeks ago, I randomly ran into a guy who was a fellow at JH and out of the complete blue somehow we got on the subject of Ben Carson. I honestly had no idea who he was talking about until it dawned on me and I remembered him as a pedi neurosurgeon. He told me that he is one of the most malignant people at JH and he is not well liked by staff. Interesting to hear but taken with a grain of salt like most things.


On the topic of religion. I would never consider voting for or against someone based on their religion. I, myself, am an agnostic but I have alot of respect and admiration for those who are religious. I don't like those who preach to me from any point of view.
 
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He told me that he is one of the most malignant people at JH and he is not well liked by staff. Interesting to hear but taken with a grain of salt like most things.
This does not surprise me in the least. Never interacted with him myself, but there certainly were a fair number of malignant individuals at JHH and, generally speaking, malignant folks seem to be over-represented in neurosurg.

There were many, many more really good folks there though.

- pod