Ben-Gurion University Medical School for International Health

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IzzyMD09

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New website is up and running to answer any questions for applicants and matriculants.

Read about who we are, and what we do, learn about our curriculum, and what makes us "not your average medical school"

www.MsihMD.org

Enjoy

Izzy

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Hi, I'm planning on attending BGU, I know very little Hebrew. does anyone know how the Hebrew classes at BGU are? Should I take an Ulpan class before starting?
 
Hey and congrats on getting in. I would very much recommend taking some sort of intensive Hebrew course before school starts. The Hebrew here is taught decent,however, it helps a ton if you know some. I would suggest contacting your local Jewish community center or junior college to see if they are offering classes. If you have a foundation coming in, you will be leaps and bounds beyond most people in the class.

Good luck.
 
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Jones is fluent so not that his answer is incorrect, but i will reply as the person who knew none coming in

HEBREW IS HUGE.....even though most languages spoken are Russian, Amharric, Arabic and others, everything come third year is Hebrew, doctors, nurses, patient files, charts...everything, as far as clinical rotations go, it has been the only barrier for me, but on the other hand, it really enhances your ability to pick up on the non-verbal communication that is hard to get when everyone speaks english all the time

I would say if there is one thing you can do to pass the time before you arrive, learn as much hebrew as possible, dont waste your time reading and writing, you need to take conversation hebrew courses....i know there are some hebrew podcasts on itunes, i dont know how good they are but they are free,

you dont need to be fluent, but you have to understand, its an entirely different non-latin based language so start now

izzy

communicating with patients is 90% in Hebrew, so a good knowledge of speaking and listening far surpasses your need to read and write
 
This might be a bit off topic but I here I go:
Has anyone looked at the 2008 Match for BGU.
I wanted to get someone's impression on that.
On my opinion, the list looks small (not a lot of students) does it mean that not everyone matched?
Also, what do you guys think about the various specialties landed by the students?
I thought that BGU students were getting better and better and I don't see a great progression from last year's match. Maybe I am way wrong I seriously have no clue what I am talking about.
Cheers,
Courben
 
Do you think by 3rd year it will be possible to converse at a high enough level with patients? I learned to speak mandarin chinese fairly proficently in about 2.5 years. Are their language conversation groups/ tutors at BGU or is their not enough time for that. Thanks
 
Yes, you will be proficient enough to converse with a patient, for me it was difficult because I have always had difficulties with language,

but by now I can do a complete history and physical in Hebrew, and understand about 40% of what the patient is saying, and about 90% of the relevant things the patient is saying,

I believe the Hebrew curriculum has gotten better since I began here, and I know for me we spent too much time learning the basic how to read and write, not enough time on grammar and conversation, but in second year all you do is learn conversation , and if it worked for me itll work for you

izzy
 
Ok, so can anyone recommend a decent beginning Hebrew book to at least learn the basics before July? I have absolutely none to begin with; though I have experience with non-Latin languages none of them are anywhere close to Hebrew...

Also, any good non-fiction/historical fiction on Israel you all enjoyed? I've got the beer in one hand, but I've exhausted Pizza Hut menu (and I'm a Papa John's kind of guy).

thanks
 
By the way anyone know how the transcript and mcat scores are sent to them? Or should I just send the application and fee first? I can apply any time right, there is no cycle or anything
 
Hello...
I'm new to this forum but I thought I'd give it a try.
Anyways, I found about BGU and am convinced that it's the exact school I want to go to... (I'm set on becoming a medical missionary for most of my life. So, when I found about BGU I was pretty pumped.)
However, I'm wondering if I've got a chance....
I'm a double major in philosophy and biology.
I have A's in philosophy and most biology classes....
but my med pre-reqs are shooting around B's. (Science GPA = 3.34)
I haven't taken the MCAT yet.... I'm doing it next summer and will graduate that fall 2009.
This summer I'm planning on shadowing and snagging a job in a nursing home as well as volunteering. I have a few ECs that should help me out.... captain of varsity soccer team at my college, 4 mission trips, philosophy UROP project, and a large involvement with the Catholic group on campus (living in Catholic household which means I need to lead bible studies, eat dinner as a house twice a week, attend bible study, attend mass, do a daily hour of prayer, meet with other people, lead small groups / talks at retreats etc.....)
Well.... just wondering if anyone has any advice or suggestions? Is BGU out of the question? I know their average GPA is 3.5 and MCAT 29....

thanks
 
glad to see such hebrew enthusiasm

there are a couple of quality reads i think are beneficial
but more importantly you need to start using the vocab as soon as you learn it or it will never stick

theres the hebrew in 10 minutes a day book, which is reallly really great i liked it a lot but after 5 pages i started studying for micro (i studied a lot first year for some reason others didnt and did fine maybe i was wrong)

then for the more advanced out there, theres a book called ha-yesod which is like lessons in hebrew reading writing and speaking organized into lessons that all build on one another

there is also a book with 500 hebrew verbs that a few people use

and again there are podcasts on itunes that teach hebrew in the iUniversity site

so check those out

also pick up a lonely planet Israel, Turkey, Egypt, cause you will definately be going there on vacay while you are here

Izzy
 
This might be a bit off topic but I here I go:
Has anyone looked at the 2008 Match for BGU.
I wanted to get someone's impression on that.
On my opinion, the list looks small (not a lot of students) does it mean that not everyone matched?
Also, what do you guys think about the various specialties landed by the students?
I thought that BGU students were getting better and better and I don't see a great progression from last year's match. Maybe I am way wrong I seriously have no clue what I am talking about.
Cheers,
Courben

Courben,

The match list was small because there are only 24 people in the class total. Many people decided to take a year off for personal reasons (i.e. getting married, having babies). However, every single person that entered the match this year matched without having to scramble. The specialties you see on the list are the ones the people actually wanted, not something they had to settle on. Pretty much everyone got their first or second choice. This school is primary-care oriented and most people in their class genuinely wanted to go into primary care.

In the next class (2009) there are a few more people interested in more competitive fields, and I'm sure the next match list will reflect that.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for the info Izzy. I'm already pretty proficient in Hebrew and I was wondering if it is possible to learn Arabic instead of Hebrew starting in July. I already have a basic knowledge of spoken arabic. How would I go about setting something like this up?

Thanks,
Jonah
 
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Thanks Izzy, I've seen the 10 minutes a day book around; I'll give it a try. I have a couple of months... Even if I don't retain much it helps me to have at least seen it before.
 
Thanks for the info Izzy. I'm already pretty proficient in Hebrew and I was wondering if it is possible to learn Arabic instead of Hebrew starting in July. I already have a basic knowledge of spoken arabic. How would I go about setting something like this up?

Thanks,
Jonah

About the arabic thing, so, I remember when our class started a few students were interested in learning arabic as well, and the school said there would be a way for them to do so, but then that fell through (just being honest) but in my opinion if you are proficient in hebrew you should start practicing your medical hebrew, because all the forms and charts and everything in the system is all in hebrew. This isnt saying there arent ways for you learn arabic, there are plenty of opportunities to set up a private tutor when you are here, many of our faculty our arabic speakers, some students also speak arabic, or you can find a tutor at the University across campus, Russian may also be a good language to learn, and Amharric....meanwhile I am still trying to master the English language...
Enjoy

Izzle
 
I just turned down my acceptance to Ben Gurion. Good luck to the person who'll be getting my place :D Study hard for us both.
 
Hey Jonathan, just wondering why you decided to turn it down? Are you going to be studying in the states?
 
It's either going to be Sackler or a local US med school.
 
a good knowledge of speaking and listening far surpasses your need to read and write

Totally true. Don't let any purist Hebrew teacher get all academic on you and try to make you write the language, including upper and lower case letters and all that. We spent most of our 1st year on that and it was not very helpful.

Practically, you need to be able to speak, and even more important you need to understand spoken Hebrew. Often you are required to attend grand rounds, radiology rounds and morning reports in your 3rd year - almost invariably in Hebrew - and you really don't pick much up if you can't understand what anyone is saying.
 
Secretwave, I'm past the Hebrew 101 stage, but not at the total conversational comprehension stage. Can you recommend any basic hebrew novels (perhaps pre-teen level stuff) or hebrew textbooks with passages with limited vocabulary that I can get in Israel?

Thanks!
 
Hey Jon, you mentioned you are using Pimsleur Hebrew II - did you go through Hebrew I, and have you spoken with anyone after using either? I am on Hebrew I, and it seems better than the methods I've used for other languages, but I am curious to get the impression of someone who used it and then spoke with someone (before I spring for Hebrew II - it ain't cheap)

thanks
 
Candlestickman, I love Pimsleur language courses! I knew a little Hebrew, so I decided to spring for Hebrew II first (used from Amazon.com). I'm glad I did because it's a perfect fit for me. I know the basic vocabulary, and have been able to continue directly on from there. Pimsleur's strength is that it reinforces a basic usable vocabulary instead of introducing hundreds of words. I listen in the shower and in the car to work and home, and feel like I am surrounded by native speakers.

Since Pimsleur is weak on the reading and writing, and I have a little free time at the moment, I decided to pick up a book with lots of passages and exercises. I feel pretty happy with this one--it assumes a basic vocabulary; you need the primer if you know no Hebrew:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0874413311

I have also ordered one of the Harry Potter novels in Hebrew. I'm going to try read it alongside the English edition.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RBZM64
I know it's going to be a real slog in the beginning, but if I can get to the stage where I can enjoy reading Hebrew fiction, the language will be one less thing I have to worry about for the next four years!

How far are you into Hebrew I? How are you finding it?
 
Hey Jon, you mentioned you are using Pimsleur Hebrew II - did you go through Hebrew I, and have you spoken with anyone after using either? I am on Hebrew I, and it seems better than the methods I've used for other languages, but I am curious to get the impression of someone who used it and then spoke with someone (before I spring for Hebrew II - it ain't cheap)

thanks

I've not spoken to someone "beIvrit" since starting Hebrew II. I did however use French one a few years back, and <i>still</i> remember enough French to start a conversation. Pimsleur beats the language into you, and with a decent accent too!
 
Secretwave, I'm past the Hebrew 101 stage, but not at the total conversational comprehension stage. Can you recommend any basic hebrew novels (perhaps pre-teen level stuff) or hebrew textbooks with passages with limited vocabulary that I can get in Israel?

Thanks!

I read a lot of Amos Oz while there. I can't imagine that he would be easy fiction reading...I loved the English translations but they're pretty tough to fully comprehend.

That said, I still recommend that you avoid learning Hebrew text altogether unless, a.) you've got spoken conversational - especially MEDICAL - Hebrew down pretty well, and/or b.) learning the writing helps you learn to speak/ understand it. My strongest area of Hebrew remains reading the words and sounding out letters to words that I don't comprehend.
 
Jon -

I'm on lesson 16 of Hebrew I (so I can ask a girl out for a drink:)). I have studied a variety of languages through college courses and individual study, and I like Pimsleur the best by far. It will be interesting to see what I understand when I get there. I think I will end up getting the 2nd level as I have enough time and I am enjoying it. I actually bought it new, but on SD disk, which is much cheaper (actually the same a used CD version on Amazon).

I might check out that book you mentioned when I finish level one, if I'm feeling really ambitious.

Thanks for the link and info. Good luck on Harry Potter - I might be ready for it by the time I graduate!
 
Thank you for the info, Secretwave. I agree with you, it's better to learn to converse and comprehend than just read and write.

Candlestickman, asking a girl out for a drink is a worthy communication skill. :)
I found an excellent Hebrew podcast worth checking out. It's free and called "Hebrew Podcasts." I'm planning on downloading it to my ipod. Just another source of conversational hebrew. Who said you can't have full immersion here in the US? :eek:
 
Good call on the podcasts - a nice free way to hear some more Hebrew. I noticed there are two podcast series that come up, one from hebrewpodcasts.com and one from learnhebrewpod.com though I haven't tried either yet.
 
Candlestickman, I love Pimsleur language courses! I knew a little Hebrew, so I decided to spring for Hebrew II first (used from Amazon.com). I'm glad I did because it's a perfect fit for me. I know the basic vocabulary, and have been able to continue directly on from there. Pimsleur's strength is that it reinforces a basic usable vocabulary instead of introducing hundreds of words. I listen in the shower and in the car to work and home, and feel like I am surrounded by native speakers.

Since Pimsleur is weak on the reading and writing, and I have a little free time at the moment, I decided to pick up a book with lots of passages and exercises. I feel pretty happy with this one--it assumes a basic vocabulary; you need the primer if you know no Hebrew:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0874413311

I have also ordered one of the Harry Potter novels in Hebrew. I'm going to try read it alongside the English edition.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RBZM64
I know it's going to be a real slog in the beginning, but if I can get to the stage where I can enjoy reading Hebrew fiction, the language will be one less thing I have to worry about for the next four years!

How far are you into Hebrew I? How are you finding it?

So I have looked into the Pimsleur series, but when I search for it online, there are a whole bunch of different ones that come up. Which one do you recommend? And where did you buy yours?
 
MJ0322,

I bought my (good, used) set off Amazon, although you should look at Ebay and Audible.com too.

Basic Hebrew:
http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Hebrew-...bs_sr_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210636267&sr=8-7

...is a short, 10 lesson (5 CD) starter pack. If you don't know whether Pimsleur is for you, and you know no Hebrew, this is probably the place to start.

Modern Hebrew I and II
http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Hebrew-...bs_sr_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210636267&sr=8-7
http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Hebrew...d_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210636267&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-II-Und...bs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210636267&sr=8-3

... are each 30 lesson (15 CD) sets that teach you beginner and intermediate Hebrew. The Hebrew I set includes the 5CDs featured on the Modern Hebrew set (starter pack) above.

So, you can dive right in and buy Hebrew I, or you can purchase the intro starter pack first. Another option, if you have an MP3 player is to buy the sets in 10 lesson increments from Audible.com. It may even be more reasonable.

Hope that helps!

Jon
 
Hey MJ, just to add to Jon's suggestions -

check your local library, I got the first eight lessons there and then decided to buy the rest. An alternative to the used CDs is to get the whole thing on one "SD Disk" (it comes with a USB reader). It is convienent to put on you ipod etc. and is cheaper than the new CDs ($150)

http://www.audiofy.com/Audiofy/Hebrew_4
 
wow guys, thank you for all the info!

the library.. what a great idea. I definitely hadn't thought of that.

One more quick question. I have a foundation of Hebrew from day school when I was little (I can read & write it). I still remember some basic Hebrew (a few verbs, some basic vocab, numbers, colors, days of the week... etc.) but haven't really studied it in years.

Which would you recommend beginning with? How "beginner" is the intro course? Do you think I could jump into Hebrew 2?

thank you guys again for all your help!
 
Can you say:
I love red cars
Do you want to go to the Cafe in the garden?
I would like to eat and drink something
Where is the rest good restaurant
Hello, how are you? My name is Moshe Dayan

...If you can still do some basic conversations, then you could probably dive into HebrewII. Otherwise start with Hebrew I.
 
Hebrew I assumes you know absolutely nothing, which was true in my case. Probably tedious if you know the basics. I'm half way through and doing stuff like

I want to buy some American beer.
How much does it cost? Thirteen shekels!!
Do you have any shekels you can give me?
Do you want to go the hotel with me for a drink at 8pm?
 
Hebrew I assumes you know absolutely nothing, which was true in my case. Probably tedious if you know the basics. I'm half way through and doing stuff like

I want to buy some American beer.
How much does it cost? Thirteen shekels!!
Do you have any shekels you can give me?
Do you want to go the hotel with me for a drink at 8pm?

I wish a beer at a bar in TA cost 13 shekels....
 
Don't make fun of my 13 Shekels! I didn't know how to count past 20.

To current students - did you have to get the polio and DTP booster shots (the "in the last ten years" part)? I just noticed for another med. school it asked for the child record but stated it was not recommended for adults...
 
So now that I'm busy studying Hebrew... I came across this passage (from "The Israelis"):

"When doctors go on rounds talking to each other in Russian, we feel left out," complains a nurse at Soroka Hospital in Beersheva. "Sometimes I feel like I'm working in Moscow, not Israel. And when I'm with my patients, I need a translator. Most speak only Arabic."

Doh! Maybe everybody should just speak English.
 
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So now that I'm busy studying Hebrew... I came across this passage (from "The Israelis"):



Doh! Maybe everybody should just speak English.

I like it when they say they can speak English, but it turns out being Hebrish...
 
really?..thats odd...sackler made me get my polio booster 2 months ago


Don't make fun of my 13 Shekels! I didn't know how to count past 20.

To current students - did you have to get the polio and DTP booster shots (the "in the last ten years" part)? I just noticed for another med. school it asked for the child record but stated it was not recommended for adults...
 
... As far as the Polio immunization goes, it is probably only necessary for Israeli schools, not at any US Medical schools because of problems with Polio in the past ten years around the Middle East and N. Africa...
 
Hey all,
I am trying to pack for the big move and was wondering what kinds of clothes I should bring. By that, I mostly wonder what the usual attire worn to classes is? I'm bringing nicer clothes for clinical days, but what's standard in the classroom? Jeans/t-shirts? Slacks/nice shirts? Do I need to bust out a cocktail dress? I'd appreciate any help here, and any other advice on what to bring/what not to bring. Thanks!
 
Hey redheadedpoet,

You're in luck! I just received a PM from one of your classmates and wrote her an entire essay on what to wear. I'm going to cut and paste. Enjoy:

In general, Israel is VERY VERY casual. The style is kind of like a beachy, hippie and "anything goes" style. On hot days in Beer Sheva, we all walk around with thin strap tank-tops, tube tops, halter tops, shorts....whatever will save you from the heat. Honestly, anything goes in Beer Sheva. Class is also extremely casual. Tshirts, tank tops, jeans, shorts, skirts, sandals...whatever you're most comfortable in. Even the doctors wear very casual clothes (it's rare to find a person wearing a business suit here...if you do see ppl in suits, they're usually foreigners). In short you will spend 99% of your time wearing casual clothes in Beer Sheva, so make sure you pack enough of that stuff.

Outside of Beer Sheva, you will be wearing the exact same clothes as you do in Beer Sheva, with a few exceptions:

Tel Aviv-- this city has an amazing night life, and even though the style is still casual, we girls usually take it as an opportunity to dress up a bit (we get so few opportunities in Beer Sheva!). Nice tops, dresses, heels...whatever you like. And if you don't like dressing up, you can go casual and no one will blink an eyelid.

Jerusalem-- this city is INCREDIBLE and during orientation you'll have a day trip here. Jerusalem has a very mixed population of non-religious and religious ppl, so I usually feel most comfortable dressing modestly when I go there. You don't have to wear turtlenecks and long skirts in the summer, but I try to wear t-shirts that aren't low cut with pants and/or skirts below the knees. This is especially important if you'll be visiting any churches, synagogues, or mosques (which you will be!).

Most of your traveling in Israel will be to non-religious communities (the beach, hiking, sight-seeing, most cities) and you can wear whatever you want. For the rare times that you'll visit a very religious community, you'll get specific instructions on what is appropriate to wear in that community.

And finally, for cold-weather clothing-- The winter days are usually warm and sunny, but the nights can get quite cold (can get to 0 celcius). They are not as well-equipped for colder weather, so the homes are not insulated or heated and the floors are tiled. The key for winter here is LAYERS. Bring long-sleeved shirts, sweatshirts, warm socks and definitely a medium-weight jacket for the colder days. I also highly recommend bringing some cozy slippers.

Hope this helps! Feel free to ask more detailed questions...any excuse to procrastinate is welcome :)
 
BerryPie, Thank you so much for all of that. My first instinct was to bring clothes like that because in really hot places, you do what you can, but then my friends at American med schools were talking about new wardrobes to "dress up" from their undergrad days, so I just got worried. Thanks for quelling my fears:)
 
Have Professor Schlaffer tell you his story for how he managed to avoid wearing a tie at any time during his fellowship at some buttoned-up E. Coast program.

I wore flip-flops as much as possible (even to graduation...although I got a little flak for that one). Stereotypically, Israelis wear sandals (although cheap Teva ones mostly). Aside from the religious warning above, anything goes. It's very laid back.

Also bring a good blanket for the cold months. The chill is dull and constant when you're holed up in your apt. all day studying. Totally agree about the slippers - there's almost no carpet anywhere in Israel, so you're likely to be walking around on tile floors. Cold, tile floors.
 
are studying in Ben Gurion University?
 
Good call on the blanket, secretwave.

If you have room for a blanket in your luggage, then bring it. If not, you can always pick one up in Israel.
 
are studying in Ben Gurion University?

I'm assuming you meant to throw a 'you' in there, and that you're asking if I'm studying at BGU. The answer is neoup...not any more. Graduate '05. I like jumping back on this msg board, though, because I end up writing about parts of that experience I forgot (like the ubiquitous tile floors).

I loved my time over there; bringing up memories of it is always fun.
 
I think the question was "How many foreign students are studying at BGU," though I'm not sure if the poster meant non-US students at MSIH, or total foreign at BGU or what have you.

and I think the cocktail dress could work
 
Looks like the last post was in June, so maybe you guys are all packing for Israel at this point!? For anyone left: How competitive is the international MD program for BG? I'm really interested, but not sure if I've got much of a chance.. Want to pursue a career with the underserved including international health - specifically work with VVF ladies (vesico-vaginal fistula). Lived in Nigeria when I was little for a year, and for three months volunteering in a hospital at age 20...that's about all I've got for international experience. GPA and MCAT are on the average, but the applicant bios on their website look pretty impressive (experiences etc)! Class size looks small - secondary application is big! Any advice?
 
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