Ben-Gurion University Medical School for International Health

[Zuckman]

Yeah, I'd agree with the above posts. If you are not 80-90% sure BGU is the school for you, then I'd sway toward your state school. Most people change their minds about specialties during med.

Congrats on having multiple acceptances!

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[WorldTravelerMD]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Izzy, ETSU is East TN State Univ (Quillen COM). I made my final decision yesterday and I decided to go to Ben-Gurion! Those of you there I look forward to meeting you in person! I am very excited. Now, I just need to survive P Chem...and graduate.
I have always known I want to go overseas and am pretty convenced I want to do Peds. BGU seemed just to good to pass up, no mater how "safe" ETSU was.

On another note does anyone know when the financial stuff should arrive the pre-departure booklet implied it should have shown up by now?

 

[doctaroo]

Congrats on choosing BGU!

BGU has shown a good history of matching into peds.

 

[redheadedpoet]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Izzy, ETSU is East TN State Univ (Quillen COM). I made my final decision yesterday and I decided to go to Ben-Gurion! Those of you there I look forward to meeting you in person! I am very excited. Now, I just need to survive P Chem...and graduate.
I have always known I want to go overseas and am pretty convenced I want to do Peds. BGU seemed just to good to pass up, no mater how "safe" ETSU was.

On another note does anyone know when the financial stuff should arrive the pre-departure booklet implied it should have shown up by now?

World Traveler, Congrats on choosing BGU as your next home It's definitely a different and exciting experience. About the financial stuff, you can talk to Alice and Lynn Conneroy (have you talked with her yet?). They would be the two who could better advise you on that stuff. I know we just got our cost of attendance figures for next year, so they still might be in the process of printing and shipping the information to you guys.

Anyway, Alice is a lifesaver, so talk to her when you can about those kinds of things She'll put you in touch with the people you need to talk with.

Congratulations again. Look forward to seeing you in the fall!

 

[prettywings]

hello,

i am a rising senior interested in global health and reproductive justice. i would very much like to work on women's health in low-income countries. BGU sounds like a GREAT opportunity and the only thing we have in the US that is even close is some med schools like GW and Mt Sinai that offer a global health concentration.

i am interested in the opportunity with BGU but i am almost 100% sure that i want to go into OBGYN and i know that its easier to place in internal medicine than specialties from there. to me this is very important because i also want to work on women's health issues in the US.

any thoughts or advice? i mean i will apply to BGU and see if i get in first but i still would like to know what you all think since most of you know about BGU here.

oh and ps. im really poor does BGU give out any aid? do US banks give loans for med students to get aid to foreign schools?

 

[WorldTravelerMD]

I will leave the OBGYN comments to the more experienced, other then to say that this year ('09) the match list has three students matched in OBGYN, at Stamford/Columbia, Drexel Univ. and New Mexico.

As to the loans American BGU students are eligible for Stafford (at about 6.5% limit $20,500) and GradPlus loans (at about 8.7%, up to the estimated cost of attendance currently $51,200 for the first year) . As with any med school internal financial aid is rather limited, but current students were given the opportunity to apply for two half tuition scholarships. It remains to be seen if this will continue or if they will actually be rewarded this year. You are your own somewhat, as the distance makes for delays when trying to communicate with the Israeli office about loans, etc.

 

[IzzyMD09]

hello,

i am a rising senior interested in global health and reproductive justice. i would very much like to work on women's health in low-income countries. BGU sounds like a GREAT opportunity and the only thing we have in the US that is even close is some med schools like GW and Mt Sinai that offer a global health concentration.

i am interested in the opportunity with BGU but i am almost 100% sure that i want to go into OBGYN and i know that its easier to place in internal medicine than specialties from there. to me this is very important because i also want to work on women's health issues in the US.

any thoughts or advice? i mean i will apply to BGU and see if i get in first but i still would like to know what you all think since most of you know about BGU here.

oh and ps. im really poor does BGU give out any aid? do US banks give loans for med students to get aid to foreign schools?

Hi, My name is Izzy and Im the pseudo moderator of this post, I am a 4th year student at BGU and I am currently taking a year off to do clinical research here in the states, I believe I can answer some if not all of your questions!

Firstly and Foremostly, (and I don't mean to toot our schools horn...but I will) we are THE ONLY school to actually offer provide and SET the standard on what it means to teach, learn, and live globally with an International Health Curriculum, our school sets aside hours specifically to train us for the global, impoverished, rural, developing country setting and how to practice great medicine in those areas. Some schools will provide away electives for a month to Africa or East Asia, our school requires a 9 week Clerkship in which you conduct a public health project in 1 of several developing countries, while simulataneously practicing medicine in those areas. The prior 3 years are setting up and training for this clerkship. As Jones173 has menitoned oodles of times, yes International Health has a broad definition, International Health can be living in New York City or any diverse area where little to no one speaks English, but here in Israel you are not only privy to living in a country where English is not the primary language and in Be'er Sheva particularly you are privy to the dozens of migrant populations be they from Ethiopia, the Sudan, Thaliand, the Phillipines, as well as local more settled populations like the Bedouin, Russian, and of course Israeli. We also work with clinics on a volunteer basis aiding migrant workers, Palestinians, and African Refugees. Students volunteer to do these clinics weekly so basically what I am trying to say is you have 3.5 years of not stop global medicine.

As per your second concern, worry not, I am poor .....poor as dirt, without any financial support from anyone else, but I have managed to eek by on Stafford Loans, non-Stafford loans, graduate Plus loans, and probably a Residency and Relocation Loan, I dont think poverty should exclude people from the field of medicine but obviously it does, with an average US medical student debt of 150,000 dollars plus another 100,000 dollars at least of hidden fees for the Boards, Elective Travel, Equipment, Textbooks etc etc, most medical students are poor.

Finally, Womens Health is a big focus at BGU, we have several Student Initiated groups with a primary focus on WOmens Health, I think one of them is called the Womens Interest Group (WIG), a lot of our international modules (which are extra lecture based/interactive after-school specials) are Women's Health focused, almost to the point of reverse sexism in my opinion (Men need to be healthy too right?)so I wouldnt worry about exploring this interest further at BGU-MSIH....

I hope that helps, if you need additional info, PM me, and I can put you in touch with some of the people who matched OB/Gyn this year, and with the leaders of the Womens Interest Group at BGU!

Izzy

 

[IzzyMD09]

I will leave the OBGYN comments to the more experienced, other then to say that this year ('09) the match list has three students matched in OBGYN, at Stamford/Columbia, Drexel Univ. and New Mexico.

As to the loans American BGU students are eligible for Stafford (at about 6.5% limit $20,500) and GradPlus loans (at about 8.7%, up to the estimated cost of attendance currently $51,200 for the first year) . As with any med school internal financial aid is rather limited, but current students were given the opportunity to apply for two half tuition scholarships. It remains to be seen if this will continue or if they will actually be rewarded this year. You are your own somewhat, as the distance makes for delays when trying to communicate with the Israeli office about loans, etc.

Just to clarify, there are financial need scholarships that students can apply for yearly, and if you qualify, like you have to be wicked dirt poor like myself, then you get around 2000 dollars from the main campus, i.e. the parent school of BGU-MSIH (Ben-Gurion University). The two half scholarships are not applied for, they are not need-based, in the past they have been given to students who have shown dedication and commitment to international health prior to their enrollment at BGU-MSIH, the "application" for this scholarship is actually your application for medical school, but as previously mentioned, this may be dropped soon as financial times are tough for BGU-MSIH as they are from everywhere else,

Also it is important to note so that you are not in the dark, that tuition will increase yearly.

When I started in 2005 it was approximately 24,000 dollars per year, this past year 2009, it is closer to 29,000 a year so expect tuition to increase a little over 1000 dollars US per year. Finally I think you should not that unlike other US schools, tuition cannot be paid with credit cards, it can only be paid with US dollars (i.e. checks)!

Izzy

 

[patches13]

I am interested in applying to BGU 2010 and was looking for some help and or advice on my application. I am really interested in international health and think that the program sounds amazing buthave not really had any international experiences that would really set me out from others. I have been exposed to different volunteer work, employment and research positions that make me a good candidate for med school in general, but I was looking for some advice on how to convey this interest in my application. Help from successful previous applicants or current students would be GREAT!!

 

[shilgy]

I am interested in applying to BGU 2010 and was looking for some help and or advice on my application. I am really interested in international health and think that the program sounds amazing buthave not really had any international experiences that would really set me out from others. I have been exposed to different volunteer work, employment and research positions that make me a good candidate for med school in general, but I was looking for some advice on how to convey this interest in my application. Help from successful previous applicants or current students would be GREAT!!

hi patches,
if you dont have very good stats then this summer you should actually do some international work, that would help immensely. if you have very good stats then you may still be successful without any actual international work. by just writing about your interest then that may be enough. have you ever worked/volunteered with disadvantaged populations in your community? if so, writing about that would help also. also, writing about being exposed to people from different cultures will also help.

if you can't do anything international this summer, you can at least PLAN to do something and then write about your tentative plan on your application.
good luck!

 

[tsbqb]

Hi everyone I have a few questions:

Are there any tips anyone has about what to bring? Anything specific that you wish you had known to bring?

Any tips on what clothing to bring?

I have a cell phone. Will it work in Israel?

thanks!!

 

[ransomMCAT]

There's a lot to be said for just showing up, so if you're interested you should apply. Part of the reason the application is long is that they don't accept the AMCAS application (I suspect it may also have the effect of weeding out people who don't really want to go there).

I asked at my interview how many applications they get in a year, and they said it varies depending on what's in the news about the Middle East. If I remember correctly, they're doing pretty well when they get 200 or 300 applications (I don't remember the exact number, but it was somewhere around there. Nowhere near 1,000). That's for a class of 50.

It's common for med schools to accept a lot more than the number of seats in their class, since students with multiple acceptances can only attend one school. That's what they said at U. Miami and Einstein (at Einstein I think it was somewhere around 500 acceptances for less than 200 seats!), though I don't know how many they accept at MSIH.

The moral of the story is, it's a good idea to send in the application and see what happens.

 

[ransomMCAT]

Hey,

Anybody know who are the best lenders to use for GradPlus and Stafford loans? How many lenders are there available to MSIH students? I've heard that some of them won't lend to students at international schools.

I've been reading about repayment plans, benefits for automatic debit, and origination fees, + ability to fill out MPN online, so I guess those are my criteria. I'm interested to hear how you've made your decision, though.

 

[IzzyMD09]

Someone mentione prior that it has to do with what is in the news,

Well you got that 100% correct

In 2005 when I applied there were 900 applications for 44 spots, our class at the time was the largest, the class 1 year ahead had about 28 people, the class two years ahead had about 35

the incoming class of 2006 had around 45 people which is now greater than 50 d/t people taking a year off for family, research etc

This became problemmatic because our class rooms and facilities cannot accomodate as many people so the incoming class of 2007 was limited to around 40

Again this does correlate with the news and the media, which by all means is blown way out of proportion regardless of which side of the fence you are on!

Class sizes remain small until facilities are increased, but I believe this to be a positive thing. I look now at medical schools where I am at Tufts, BU, Harvard and at places I rotated Wayne State Case Western Columbia, and every single class is greater than 200 students, some are even in the 300's which I find odd and most likely detrimental to a learning environment dedicated to producing individual thinkers as opposed to robots.

Again just my opinion.

Izzy

 

[Zuckman]

Yeah, I was thinking that the recent war in Gaza would decrease interest in MSIH and other Israeli schools. Beer-Sheba is one of the safest places in Israel though..

 

[lukazo]

Hello Izzy.

Can you tell me how long does it take to do Ben-Gurion medical school? I don't mean American program. I searched http://bgu.ac.il/Eng/Home but couldn't find the information. Maybe I did it in a wrong way.

Thanks in advance

 

[WorldTravelerMD]

Until Izzy provides the official answer, to the best of my knowledge the Israeli program (Joyce and Irving Goldman Faculty of Medicine) is six years plus a unpaid one year internship (housemanship year) similar to most Commonwealth programs.

 

[doctaroo]

MSIH is, in my opinion, is the best medical school in the world at training well-rounded culturally sensitive physicians.

I've researched virtually every medical program in the US, Canada, Ireland, UK, New Zealand, and Australia.

MSIH stood out head and shoulders above every program I looked at. If you are interested in international health and playing a role in the bigger arena, BGU is the place to be!

 

[lukazo]

btw is it possible to transfer to BGU from foreign medical school?

 

[md1ywh]

btw is it possible to transfer to BGU from foreign medical school?

lukazo,

Your questions are pretty vague. First off, check out the BGU website for the medical program for international health here: http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/bgcu-md/Gurion.html

Second, the Israeli program is for Israeli citizens ONLY.

Third, you should contact the school directly regarding transfer possibilities. Find an email or phone number on the website and contact them directly.

 

[IzzyMD09]

Until Izzy provides the official answer, to the best of my knowledge the Israeli program (Joyce and Irving Goldman Faculty of Medicine) is six years plus a unpaid one year internship (housemanship year) similar to most Commonwealth programs.

Yes this is correct, its the quivalent of the college and medical school combined into 6 yearsm, the 7th year is their internship year practically speaking, and then they start residency!

Hope that helps

Izzy

 

[lukazo]

OK. thank you all !!!

 

[amalakassogue]

Greetings to all,
I am so glad that I found this site and have been privy to your comments. I had done a lot of international health work in the past, Peace Corps, Carter Center, African Services Committee... and figured that getting my MD would be the best way for me to continue what I was doing without getting bored or lazy. I had applied for about ten schools in the US when I found out, via email, about the MSIH. I had been receiving a plethora of emails about foreign medical schools (I think because I had been in the Peace Corps) but this one struck me as different and when I read the description I was sold! My next move was a bit brash, to say the least. Keep in mind, I was trying to make money to pay for school as a stock broker during the financial meltdown, so I was under a lot of stress and had almost no time to devote to filling out applications. Anyway, I decided to ditch filling out secondaries for all of the schools that I had applied to and apply solely to the MSIH. This seemed to make a lot of sense to me at the time, but later I sorely regretted it. I was accepted into the program, but only later realized the significance of graduating from a non-US school. I felt like I might be shooting myself in the foot.

So here I am, wracked with indecision and scheduled to leave on Wednesday. My plan B at this point is not to go and to reapply to schools for next year. I consider this to probably be the largest investment that I will make in my life, and I just want to make sure it is the best.

I greatly appreciate all of the information that everyone has posted here, and it helps to see the school as a collection of peers rather than just an institution. I have read many entries that I can relate to and I gather that many people are thinking about, or have thought about the same issues that I am.

So, here are some questions (in no particular order):

-My girlfriend is a nurse (who is a US citizen and does not know Hebrew), what would be the prospects of her finding employment in Israel.

-Would it be possible for me to focus more on Arabic than Hebrew? Ie, is it acceptable to give patient reports in Arabic?

-I speak French and Spanish, how much opportunity is there for using these languages in Be'er Sheva?

-Are any of the professors' (no need to give names) English difficult to understand?

-Do students have the opportunity to work with international aid organizations?

-Do you know of any grads who are actually working for international health organizations now?

-How is BGU-MSIH looked at by Israelis, is it a well respected school?

-Though the curriculum is geared towards matching residency in the US, what are some of the differences between the style of teaching there versus here?

-Can I get all of the books that I need over there, or should I bring some from here?

Ok, that's it for now. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and ideas.

 

[redheadedpoet]

Greetings to all,
I am so glad that I found this site and have been privy to your comments. I had done a lot of international health work in the past, Peace Corps, Carter Center, African Services Committee... and figured that getting my MD would be the best way for me to continue what I was doing without getting bored or lazy. I had applied for about ten schools in the US when I found out, via email, about the MSIH. I had been receiving a plethora of emails about foreign medical schools (I think because I had been in the Peace Corps) but this one struck me as different and when I read the description I was sold! My next move was a bit brash, to say the least. Keep in mind, I was trying to make money to pay for school as a stock broker during the financial meltdown, so I was under a lot of stress and had almost no time to devote to filling out applications. Anyway, I decided to ditch filling out secondaries for all of the schools that I had applied to and apply solely to the MSIH. This seemed to make a lot of sense to me at the time, but later I sorely regretted it. I was accepted into the program, but only later realized the significance of graduating from a non-US school. I felt like I might be shooting myself in the foot.

This is a concern for all of us currently at the school, and in the end, it's ultimately your decision. What did it for me is knowing, actually knowing, that MSIH is not a typical foreign medical school. Our school has a better reputation (and deservedly so) within the US and our graduates get better residencies. This was proven to me earlier this year when we got graduates into the Yale anesthesiology residency and the Columbia surgical residency--two of the top residencies in the country. If you're willing to work hard, there's no reason you shouldn't also do well.

So here I am, wracked with indecision and scheduled to leave on Wednesday. My plan B at this point is not to go and to reapply to schools for next year. I consider this to probably be the largest investment that I will make in my life, and I just want to make sure it is the best.

I greatly appreciate all of the information that everyone has posted here, and it helps to see the school as a collection of peers rather than just an institution. I have read many entries that I can relate to and I gather that many people are thinking about, or have thought about the same issues that I am.

So, here are some questions (in no particular order):

-My girlfriend is a nurse (who is a US citizen and does not know Hebrew), what would be the prospects of her finding employment in Israel.

I can't really help you with this, but if you message me separately, I can direct you to those people who would have more experience with this issue.

-Would it be possible for me to focus more on Arabic than Hebrew? Ie, is it acceptable to give patient reports in Arabic?

Hebrew is the priority language. You have to learn it, and if you choose to learn Arabic in addition, that's your decision, but you can't learn it in place of Hebrew. You have to know Hebrew for rounds, patient interviews, and just getting around Israel. Arabic is also super helpful. I'd say at least half of the patients at Ben-Gurion speak Arabic as a first language. But that's not the school's priority. I can also direct you to people I know who have tried to learn Arabic in conjunction with Hebrew and they can tell you more.

-I speak French and Spanish, how much opportunity is there for using these languages in Be'er Sheva?

I don't know about French, but there is a HUGE population of people who speak Spanish. It will come in very handy until your Hebrew is good enough.

-Are any of the professors' (no need to give names) English difficult to understand?

Not especially. The English of most professors is more than adequate.

-Do students have the opportunity to work with international aid organizations?

There are an amazing number of opportunities within our little school. If a niche is not currently being filled, there's an opportunity to fill it, as well. I wouldn't worry about this, as you can do many things of this nature, including Physicians for Human Rights (PHR) which is a group of doctors from Israel which goes into the West Bank once a week for open clinic.

-Do you know of any grads who are actually working for international health organizations now?

As MSIH is a relatively young school, just this year we had graduates finishing residency. I don't know one way or another if any of the first graduating class graduates, since finishing residency, have begun work for international health organizations.

-How is BGU-MSIH looked at by Israelis, is it a well respected school?

Israelis seems to see connect us more with Columbia than is probably accurate, so yes, I think so.

-Though the curriculum is geared towards matching residency in the US, what are some of the differences between the style of teaching there versus here?

I've never gone to a US medical school But MSIH vs. my college experience: I do a lot more independent learning here. I imagine that's true of American med students, though, too. I think just like everywhere, there are some really great professors, and some really not great professors. However, I personally think the other experiences (more patient contact, a challenging environment, experience living in a foreign country) greatly outweigh any teaching inadequacies.

-Can I get all of the books that I need over there, or should I bring some from here?

Our AMSA chapter runs a really great student bookroom. You can buy all of your books here. Older students price their used books and sell them to the lower years. Plus, our bookroom leader usually has tons of knowledge about which books are helpful and which are not. There is also a traditional bookstore in the hospital which has any books you may not be able to find used. Nearly all textbooks in Israel are cheaper than you could get them in the States.

Ok, that's it for now. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and ideas.

 

[amalakassogue]

Thanks RHP for writing back so promptly! When I was working in Mali, West Africa, I loved the fact that I was given so much freedom to participate in minor medical operations. Do you find that the Israeli medical system provides significantly more opportunities in this regard than in the US? That is to say, do you think there are a lot more hands on opportunities than one would find in the US?

I can appreciate that the cultural experience is an important one when considering this school, but I have had A LOT of cross cultural experience and would like to know what other significant factors added to people's choice to go to BGU-MSIH. Please share.

Thanks again.

 

[splashnchaos23]

i am 100% committed to a career in international health, but i am far more interested in an international health management position than actually practicing as a physician. i will definitely be completing an MPH program in international health, but i have not yet decided whether i will pursue the combined MD/MPH... i'm not sure that the additional training will be necessary.

that said, BGU's specialized MD program is really attractive to me. i think the very hands-on training would be complimentary to a theory-based MPH degree and put me at a tremendous advantage in terms of perspective. if i were to pursue an MD, BGU would be my first choice. however, some med schools will discredit your application if you aren't serious about a career as a clinician. do you think my interest in a non-clinical position (i.e. no residency) would make me a less desirable candidate? if i were to apply & gain acceptance, i would, of course, be just as dedicated to the curriculum and so on.

 

[amalakassogue]

If you just want to work in management and are sure that you do not want to be a clinician then I would recommend an MPH and possibly an MBA. If you think there is a chance that you might want to do clinical work then getting your MD would make more sense. Keep in mind that BGU does not offer an MD/MPH, you have to get your MPH elsewhere (which is not hard to do once you have your MD). If you do not intend to hide your true intentions when applying, I would voice your thoughts to one of the advisors in admissions and see what he/she has to say.

Good luck with everything!

 

[CecilJacobson]

Thought I'd "bump" this threat and ask a few questions myself. I'm another non-trad premed who thinks of myself as a global citizen.

Anyone have experience interviewing with MSIH? Where did you interview? What was it like? Are your only options to interview in NY or in Beer-Sheva?

"Toda,"

C.J.