Benefit to Rotating with Residents?

[Neopolymath]

No matter how respectful you are they see you as ungrateful so stop caring what they think and advocate for yourself

Probably the most important thing to say to any M1 who just started DO school.

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[Ho0v-man]

Perhaps - but these aren't these some of the people you may network with, attend conferences with, look to join their research projects, need letters from etc...

If you don’t stand up for yourself, your school will happily do the bare minimum for you and admin will pat themselves on the back when you SOAP into FM in nowheresville North Dakota. You’re paying them way too much. Try to get something out of it.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Probably two dumb questions but I'll ask:
1) How do you specifically request a resident based rotation vs a preceptor based? Does that usually require an away rotation not connected to your medical school affiliated hospitals?
2) Does your medical school find such requests to be insulting / ungrateful? Maybe this second question is impossible to answer.

1) It's all preceptor based. It's just that some preceptor based rotations are ward-like because they have residents. Depends on how your school assigns core rotation sites. If there is some kind of ranking system or lottery, Just research each site and put the sites/hospitals that have at least 1 residency program as your top choices, and hopefully you get assigned to one of them. Otherwise there's nothing you can do about it till 4th year when you can do audition rotations.

2) Does it even matter? You are paying them. Just do what's best for you, and stay on the low so you don't get on their bad side. They can always screw you at anytime.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Perhaps - but these aren't these some of the people you may network with, attend conferences with, look to join their research projects, need letters from etc...

You'd be surprised how little insight or influence academic admins have re: the job market or even residency placement. Your clerkship coordinator means almost nothing in the grand scheme of things

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Just to re-iterate. I’ve seen 4th years medical students who did preceptor based medicine for 3rd year and it was scary how little they knew. May just be my personal experience, but I strongly recommend against the preceptor based teaching. Attendings who want to teach have residents. The programs are set up to have some educations with rounds, grand rounds, M&M etc.

What can those of us who had preceptor only rotations third year do to make up for it? Is "how little they know" a knowledge thing or working in a resident esque team type of thing?

 

[DO2015CA]

What can those of us who had preceptor only rotations third year do to make up for it? Is "how little they know" a knowledge thing or working in a resident esque team type of thing?

It really depends. In my experience, I come from peds which is a really small amount of med school curricula so every student has a knowledge gap. Where the true gap is seen is inpatient at the children’s hospital. Students coming from preceptor only don’t understand the actual management even though they know the book knowledge associated. On top of that, they, for the most part, are worse presenters, note writers, and at developing a plan.

In contrary to quite a few med students understanding, peds is an inpatient residency specialty where we spend 80% of our time in the hospital (gen floor, NICU, PICU, card service, GI service, etc) so not having those experiences will put you behind the 8 ball.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

It really depends. In my experience, I come from peds which is a really small amount of med school curricula so every student has a knowledge gap. Where the true gap is seen is inpatient at the children’s hospital. Students coming from preceptor only don’t understand the actual management even though they know the book knowledge associated. On top of that, they, for the most part, are worse presenters, note writers, and at developing a plan.

In contrary to quite a few med students understanding, peds is an inpatient residency specialty where we spend 80% of our time in the hospital (gen floor, NICU, PICU, card service, GI service, etc) so not having those experiences will put you behind the 8 ball.

As someone who is leaning towards peds or med peds, this is a worry of mine. I was planning on trying to fix some of those gaps during 4th year, there just isnt much I can do about it now

 

[Hippocrates II]

Before our rotation sites ever dropped, I asked if I could have inpatient IM rotations since I'm interested in IM. I was told they don't take requests because that wouldn't be fair. Lo and behold, I got placed in a tiny inpatient IM rotation, and then an outpatient IM where I have learned little to nothing. I have a very high step 1 / comlex 1 and near the very top of our preclinical class rank. Meanwhile, my friend, who has both no interest in IM and is deep in the 4th quartile of class rank with boards to match gets placed in one of the busiest IM rotations our school offers in KC. I don't mention my academics to brag, but I feel like academic success should have an impact on rotation sites. I don't really see how that is unfair when we all have the same opportunity to sink or swim in school. Isn't that the basis of medical education? Do better in undergrad/MCAT = better med school. Do better in med school = better residency. Do better in residency = better fellowship. Why should rotation sites be any different?

Hell, if we're just going to tiptoe around everyone's feelings and not stick lower performing students in slower rotations, at least take our professional interests into consideration. If I'm interested in IM, try and give me a legitimate IM experience. If someone else is interested in surgery and I'm not, give me the slow rotation and that person the busier one. I realize this would add to their level of work and therefore will never happen, but c'mon.

 

[Chibucks15]

Before our rotation sites ever dropped, I asked if I could have inpatient IM rotations since I'm interested in IM. I was told they don't take requests because that wouldn't be fair. Lo and behold, I got placed in a tiny inpatient IM rotation, and then an outpatient IM where I have learned little to nothing. I have a very high step 1 / comlex 1 and near the very top of our preclinical class rank. Meanwhile, my friend, who has both no interest in IM and is deep in the 4th quartile of class rank with boards to match gets placed in one of the busiest IM rotations our school offers in KC. I don't mention my academics to brag, but I feel like academic success should have an impact on rotation sites. I don't really see how that is unfair when we all have the same opportunity to sink or swim in school. Isn't that the basis of medical education? Do better in undergrad/MCAT = better med school. Do better in med school = better residency. Do better in residency = better fellowship. Why should rotation sites be any different?

Hell, if we're just going to tiptoe around everyone's feelings and not stick lower performing students in slower rotations, at least take our professional interests into consideration. If I'm interested in IM, try and give me a legitimate IM experience. If someone else is interested in surgery and I'm not, give me the slow rotation and that person the busier one. I realize this would add to their level of work and therefore will never happen, but c'mon.

So I agree if you have interest then you should get the rotation. It should be based on interest not relative resume, especially for IM. It comes off pretty bad to say so. This isn't a 'feelings' post, there are plenty of "lower" people who end up succeeding pretty well in IM. I'm sorry you didn't get the rotation but welcome to DO school, use electives and fourth year to get your inpatient exposure. If you're so worried about "doing better" shouldve gone MD bud

 

[Hippocrates II]

So I agree if you have interest then you should get the rotation. It should be based on interest not relative resume, especially for IM. It comes off pretty bad to say so. This isn't a 'feelings' post, there are plenty of "lower" people who end up succeeding pretty well in IM. I'm sorry you didn't get the rotation but welcome to DO school, use electives and fourth year to get your inpatient exposure. If you're so worried about "doing better" shouldve gone MD bud

Agree to disagree. Medicine is largely a merit-based profession. I don't begrudge someone getting into a better medical school than me if they did better in undergrad or on the mcat. I don't see why clinicals should be any different. My opinion, at least.

 

[Chibucks15]

Agree to disagree. Medicine is largely a merit-based profession. I don't begrudge someone getting into a better medical school than me if they did better in undergrad or on the mcat. I don't see why clinicals should be any different. My opinion, at least.

If it was a big time field like ortho or derm then I’d agree. IM is so broad and is open to literally everyone so it doesn’t make sense. I understand your frustration though

 

[DO2015CA]

As someone who is leaning towards peds or med peds, this is a worry of mine. I was planning on trying to fix some of those gaps during 4th year, there just isnt much I can do about it now

All you can do is do as many away rotations in 4th year as possible. It’s still peds and thus one of the most uncompetitive specialties so you’ll still match

 

[ohmanwaddup]

All you can do is do as many away rotations in 4th year as possible. It’s still peds and thus one of the most uncompetitive specialties so you’ll still match

I'm leaning more towards med peds, assuming I don't hate my IM rotation. I agree with you, I'm hoping that covid will be better by the time applying aways happens so I can do all of 4th year as aways.

Sorry to keep asking questions, but do you think its a bad idea to start of right out of the gate with sub Is in peds and IM for my first aways? I dont want to be scrambling for letters for residency apps, but I am a little worried that I'll look like the worst kind of fool after preceptor only. Feel damned if I do Damned if I dont

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Agree to disagree. Medicine is largely a merit-based profession. I don't begrudge someone getting into a better medical school than me if they did better in undergrad or on the mcat. I don't see why clinicals should be any different. My opinion, at least.

Because those other students are paying the same amount of money for an education at the same school?

Interest should take priority, and if demand exceeds supply then you do a lottery.