Benefits of taking loans

[Contach]

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There is no reasonable argument against hard work benefiting character. But it sounds like there is argument about how much financial support one should receive from their parents...

I absolutely don't think the OP somehow doesn't deserve to have their dental school tuition covered and of course I wish I was in their situation, who wouldn't! Besides, I was awarded an HPSP scholarship so guess what, I also have $0 debt! Why would I be jealous? I had the same opportunity in undergrad and through the military in dental school.

Debt can come in more forms than money. When you say you will have $0 debt, this is true. But you will be indebted to the military for atleast 4 years of service. They can send you anywhere - for many this puts lots of stress on those close to them (significant others/family). Don't believe them when they promise you that you will get your first 3 choices of placement... 2 of my friends didn't.. and are paying for it now in places they never imagined they would have to be.

I recently read an op-ed in the nytimes trying to explain why children of immigrant families in the USA are have greater socioeconomic upward mobility than children born of those born in America.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/opinion/sunday/the-immigrant-advantage.html?_r=0
The idea is that immigrant families are more likely offer support to their children, and this benefits these children because in the landscape of America today, opportunity alone is not sufficient for upward mobility (as it once was). Community is important, you can't deny that. Some opt to receive money from the government, others from their family. Either way, there is a magnitude of debt associated with each, whether it be debt in the form of money, or gratitude to ones parents. Relationships are a give and take. If anyone thinks that money being bestowed to them from their parents is a take-take-take, they are naive and will one day be awoken. For the sacrifice they provide, you too will one day be on the hook for that same sacrifice. To tell anyone who receives money from their parents that they are deserving of less respect, is nearsighted, and needs to reflect on their own relationships with their family.

 

[Shunwei]

That last part is a pretty weak argument, Contach. Getting something from your parents is very different than borrowing on your own, and it has nothing to do with ones relationship with family but more about how you view the meaning of independence and self-career building. If you can't see that I don't know what to tell you. But it doesn't surprise me that most people would prefer short cuts. That's what separate the men from the boys.

And yes, I reiterate my personal position that two people, all else being equal, will mark themselves different in my eyes if one earns everything on his own versus someone who gets handouts from parents. I love my parents but I also have the pride knowing that all of my achievements were from my own two hands.

 

[Mattthias]

That last part is a pretty weak argument, Contach. Getting something from your parents is very different than borrowing on your own, and it has nothing to do with ones relationship with family but more about how you view the meaning of independence and self-career building. If you can't see that I don't know what to tell you. But it doesn't surprise me that most people would prefer short cuts. That's what separate the men from the boys.

And yes, I reiterate my personal position that two people, all else being equal, will mark themselves different in my eyes if one earns everything on his own versus someone who gets handouts from parents. I love my parents but I also have the pride knowing that all of my achievements were from my own two hands.

total bs
You are the product of modern civilization. You would not exist but for the fact of millions of people. First of all when you're born you are essentially helpless till you are five and even then you don't have a chance of taking care of yourself till you are at least in your teens. We all stand on the people that came before us. You didn't teach yourself to speak or read. You didn't make your own clothes or grow your own food. There is nothing you have done or will ever do that you did all by yourself. Even creative endeavors like paintings or literature are influenced by people that come before.

One of the main reasons I want to be a dentist is so that I can give my children a better life than what I have. If I can help them get an education without becoming a slave to debt I will by all means do this. The fact that you think it makes them a weaker person to accept help only shows how immature you are. Also don't forget that you are receiving help from the federal government or a private bank to get the loans in the first place, you didn't earn the right to borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars. Stop deluding yourself.

 

[Shunwei]

total bs
You are the product of modern civilization. You would not exist but for the fact of millions of people. First of all when you're born you are essentially helpless till you are five and even then you don't have a chance of taking care of yourself till you are at least in your teens. We all stand on the people that came before us. You didn't teach yourself to speak or read. You didn't make your own clothes or grow your own food. There is nothing you have done or will ever do that you did all by yourself. Even creative endeavors like paintings or literature are influenced by people that come before.

One of the main reasons I want to be a dentist is so that I can give my children a better life than what I have. If I can help them get an education without becoming a slave to debt I will by all means do this. The fact that you think it makes them a weaker person to accept help only shows how immature you are. Also don't forget that you are receiving help from the federal government or a private bank to get the loans in the first place, you didn't earn the right to borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars. Stop deluding yourself.

Your argument is completely off the map. I don't know how you dragged civilization into this and gone off into your BS filibuster. My view is simple. Independence vs relying on your parents. Many will opt for the easy solution. I prefer to know that I did it on my own and owe no one. I am also of the conviction that doing so makes me a better professional and person. Those of you who want to take your parents handout, take it, but don't hide behind excuses of culture or how you deserve it. In the end a spade's a spade.

 

[Glimmer1991]

My view is simple. Independence vs relying on your parents. Many will opt for the easy solution. I prefer to know that I did it on my own and owe no one. I am also of the conviction that doing so makes me a better professional and person. Those of you who want to take your parents handout, take it, but don't hide behind excuses of culture or how you deserve it. In the end a spade's a spade.

If your parents pay for something and there are no strings attached, why can't you still be "independent?" It's a gift. Truly, that's all it is. A gift. And the only response that a gift necessitates is a bit of gratitude.

If your parents won the lottery for 200 million next year and offered to give you 50 million, would you not take it? This is a more extreme example, but once again, it's just a monetary gift. This one, though, just wouldn't be for something specific like school.

You truly "owe no one?" Really? You've done it all on your own?

Something tells me that even if your parents didn't pay for your school, they still raised you in an environment that set you up to become who you are today. That is PRICELESS. I know that at least for me, I would not be the person I am today were it not for my parents constantly encouraging me to do my best. On the other hand, maybe you had a terrible childhood. Well, at least that allowed you to realize that you wanted something better for yourself.

Or what about government loans? Get any of those? Those are help, even though you're paying them back.

My parents didn't pay for my undergrad because of "culture"... we're just your usual white folks. I don't feel like I "deserved" their help. However, I guess they felt like I deserved it. And they also felt like they wanted to give me a gift, since they could. If paying for my undergrad would have put financial strain on them, I'm certain they wouldn't have done it--and I wouldn't have begrudged them that at all.

It's great that you have done so well for yourself. It truly is. However, if the end results are the same and a person works hard and has strong ethics either way, I don't see why one is any less than the other.

 

[Contach]

Your posts bleed of arrogance and omnipotence.

I prefer to know that I did it on my own and owe no one. I am also of the conviction that doing so makes me a better professional and person.

You owe the government idiot.

ANYONE in america who gets into dental school can take government loans. You are not a better person for being a naive 21 year old and signing papers to put yourself into tremendous amounts of debt. The fact of the matter is that when you signed these loans you were the same as anyone else, not a better person. You probably had a good idea that you would be able to repay the loans, but you had no certainty - just like everyone else who takes loans.

If you went bust, I bet you would have leaned hard on family and friends.

 

[ncamc]

I went to my state school and have quite a bit of undergrad debt. Dental school will only increase the tally, and if my parents could foot that bill I would be forever grateful. From the perspective of someone who can't just have mom and dad pay my loans, it can be frustrating when people nonchalantly mention their parents paying for their education with ease. That's about as far as it goes for me though, because if I had the opportunity, I'd jump on it.

To the OP I agree with pretty much everyone else, you shouldn't take the loans if you don't have to.

Lastly, doing manual labor when you're young builds character. I guess you could call mowing the lawn or delivering newspapers 'dangerous'. But come on, seriously? What about stacking wood? Afraid your child will get splinters? Well guess what, they will get splinters. Pull them out.
With proper safety education and supervision they will be fine.
I'm not saying use children as slave labor, but they should know these basic skills, and the work required to complete the task.
I don't know about everyone here, but I grew up in a working/middle class home where whining was not tolerated, and there was work to be done. It made me stronger, and my kids are going to do it too.