Benefits to being an Older Med Student

[534455]

I get alot of emails from older Pre-Med students telling me about their struggles in preparing for entrance into Medical School (both MD and DO). They are discouraged. They tell me it is hard for them. They think about giving up. This is why I am posting this.

Here is a story that is tailor made of older, non-traditional students hoping to be physicians. It is called "Doing Good is an Accident".

It is about my story of tending to homeless patients at a local clinic where my age is a plus, and the younger medical students are at a loss to understand the dynamics unfolding in front of them. The patients are taken up with having someone their age or older (homeless are as young as in their 20s) who can speak with maturity, authority in confidence. I cut them no slack and I am onto them. Wearing a stethoscope around your neck is meaningless to them.

If you are an older, non-trad Pre-Med Student, there are alot of perks to being an older student in medical school. You need to know this to keep you motivated. You may not know about these b/c no one talks about them. There aren't many of us around to tell you. Your younger pre-meds can't learn these skills in school but you already have them by virtue of life experiences. These are not tested in the MCAT nor captured in GPAs. But they will make or break your patient interaction. GPA and MCAT scores are meaningless in the patient setting. It's how you carry yourself that makes the day.

Sooooo.....

Chin up
Chest Out
Shoulders Back

Go study and get into medical school. You'll be a fabulous doctor.

Enjoy

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[LiveLoveLearn]

I get alot of emails from older Pre-Med students telling me about their struggles in preparing for entrance into Medical School (both MD and DO). They are discouraged. They tell me it is hard for them. They think about giving up. This is why I am posting this.

Here is a story that is tailor made of older, non-traditional students hoping to be physicians. It is called "Doing Good is an Accident".

It is about my story of tending to homeless patients at a local clinic where my age is a plus, and the younger medical students are at a loss to understand the dynamics unfolding in front of them. The patients are taken up with having someone their age or older (homeless are as young as in their 20s) who can speak with maturity, authority in confidence. I cut them no slack and I am onto them. Wearing a stethoscope around your neck is meaningless to them.

If you are an older, non-trad Pre-Med Student, there are alot of perks to being an older student in medical school. You need to know this to keep you motivated. You may not know about these b/c no one talks about them. There aren't many of us around to tell you. Your younger pre-meds can't learn these skills in school but you already have them by virtue of life experiences. These are not tested in the MCAT nor captured in GPAs. But they will make or break your patient interaction. GPA and MCAT scores are meaningless in the patient setting. It's how you carry yourself that makes the day.

Sooooo.....

Chin up
Chest Out
Shoulders Back

Go study and get into medical school. You'll be a fabulous doctor.

Enjoy

Awesome post - thanks!

 

[sstespri]

I get alot of emails from older Pre-Med students telling me about their struggles in preparing for entrance into Medical School (both MD and DO). They are discouraged. They tell me it is hard for them. They think about giving up. This is why I am posting this.

Here is a story that is tailor made of older, non-traditional students hoping to be physicians. It is called "Doing Good is an Accident".

It is about my story of tending to homeless patients at a local clinic where my age is a plus, and the younger medical students are at a loss to understand the dynamics unfolding in front of them. The patients are taken up with having someone their age or older (homeless are as young as in their 20s) who can speak with maturity, authority in confidence. I cut them no slack and I am onto them. Wearing a stethoscope around your neck is meaningless to them.

If you are an older, non-trad Pre-Med Student, there are alot of perks to being an older student in medical school. You need to know this to keep you motivated. You may not know about these b/c no one talks about them. There aren't many of us around to tell you. Your younger pre-meds can't learn these skills in school but you already have them by virtue of life experiences. These are not tested in the MCAT nor captured in GPAs. But they will make or break your patient interaction. GPA and MCAT scores are meaningless in the patient setting. It's how you carry yourself that makes the day.

Sooooo.....

Chin up
Chest Out
Shoulders Back

Go study and get into medical school. You'll be a fabulous doctor.

Enjoy

Thanks for the post. I can't wait to read this when I'm off work. Before I even read it though, I must say that I have already seen some pluses coming from being an "older" (26) aspiring medical student. The typical premed student doesn't have "life experience" outside of the 4 year college setting (aside from some volunteering, a mission trip, shadowing, etc.). I've heard from various Adcoms that having the experiences I have had (world travels, career experiences, etc.) set me aside. I hope they're right. I'll post some thoughts about this article later. Thanks again.

 

[dsoz]

I hope I can take some of the lessons you are bloging about and use them in my next year as a MS1.

Thank you for reminding us of our place in the medical system.

dsoz

 

[Juan Solo]

I get alot of emails from older Pre-Med students telling me about their struggles in preparing for entrance into Medical School (both MD and DO). They are discouraged. They tell me it is hard for them. They think about giving up. This is why I am posting this.

Here is a story that is tailor made of older, non-traditional students hoping to be physicians. It is called "Doing Good is an Accident".

It is about my story of tending to homeless patients at a local clinic where my age is a plus, and the younger medical students are at a loss to understand the dynamics unfolding in front of them. The patients are taken up with having someone their age or older (homeless are as young as in their 20s) who can speak with maturity, authority in confidence. I cut them no slack and I am onto them. Wearing a stethoscope around your neck is meaningless to them.

If you are an older, non-trad Pre-Med Student, there are alot of perks to being an older student in medical school. You need to know this to keep you motivated. You may not know about these b/c no one talks about them. There aren't many of us around to tell you. Your younger pre-meds can't learn these skills in school but you already have them by virtue of life experiences. These are not tested in the MCAT nor captured in GPAs. But they will make or break your patient interaction. GPA and MCAT scores are meaningless in the patient setting. It's how you carry yourself that makes the day.

Sooooo.....

Chin up
Chest Out
Shoulders Back

Go study and get into medical school. You'll be a fabulous doctor.

Enjoy

 

[Nervous Ned]

I hope you're going to make similar posts in five years about the benefits to being a younger resident, because being an older resident blows.

Seriously, this chest thumping is beyond obnoxious. These are your colleagues. But of course you're already mature enough to recognize that and not go on line to bash them for their age, right?

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I hope you're going to make similar posts in five years about the benefits to being a younger resident, because being an older resident blows.

Seriously, this chest thumping is beyond obnoxious. These are your colleagues. But of course you're already mature enough to recognize that and not go on line to bash them for their age, right?

Lol. I didn't want to say anything, because I'm not one to pull the criticism lever in Non-trad too often, but...yeah. Age and experience can help, it can hurt. There are mature 22 year olds, immature 35 year olds. Engage in whatever mental gymnastics you need to push yourself to success, but we're all starting from the same place.

 

[Goro]

Some of my all-time best students have been older students, in their 30s and even 40s.

I get alot of emails from older Pre-Med students telling me about their struggles in preparing for entrance into Medical School (both MD and DO). They are discouraged. They tell me it is hard for them. They think about giving up. This is why I am posting this.

 

[534455]

Thanks for the post. I can't wait to read this when I'm off work. Before I even read it though, I must say that I have already seen some pluses coming from being an "older" (26) aspiring medical student.

My pleasure.

I have befriended (per their request) some "kids" who are in their 20s who blow away people I know in their 40s and 50s. Heck, even 60s. A friend has a relative in their 70s whom I have met and she acts like an utter child. Selfish woman. Very consumed with self. But she's in her 70s. And no dementia.

Age is a number.

In my former medical career when I interfaced with thousands of physicians, I called all medical students, Residents and Fellows by their first name. I was older than them and frankly, they were a liability in the hospital setting. In my book, they didn't rank being called Dr. It wasn't until over time that I would come to respect some of them and pull them aside to talk about their presentations to Attendings, their performance on Rounds and try to give them some counsel on how to get on the good side of their Dept Chairmen/women.

So if you're 26 and have traveled the world, scaled Mt Everest and picked up life experiences, crow about it. Medical school committees will want to know about it.

 

[534455]

Some of my all-time best students have been older students, in their 30s and even 40s.

How come? Please share why.

Last night at the clinic where I volunteer, some of the patients in their 60s treated me with supreme respect even though I am only a first year student. The fourth year was bothered because the older patients did not take him seriously: rose colored cheeks, little boy face, poor interpersonal skills and insecure. I came to his rescue and told the patients he was my senior and I was following his lead. The older patients changed their tact. The 4th year later told me he appreciated that. So I see I'm going to have to come to the rescue of some kids who are younger but more "senior" than me b/c the patients will compare us and defer to me. Respect is earned, and young physicians often make the terrible mistake in believing everyone should respect them b/c they have an MD. Oh boy. Far from it.

Other than maturity, why were some of your 30+ and 40+ students your all-time best students?

Thanks Goro

 

[JourneyAgent]

I get alot of emails from older Pre-Med students telling me about their struggles in preparing for entrance into Medical School (both MD and DO). They are discouraged. They tell me it is hard for them. They think about giving up. This is why I am posting this.

Here is a story that is tailor made of older, non-traditional students hoping to be physicians. It is called "Doing Good is an Accident".

It is about my story of tending to homeless patients at a local clinic where my age is a plus, and the younger medical students are at a loss to understand the dynamics unfolding in front of them. The patients are taken up with having someone their age or older (homeless are as young as in their 20s) who can speak with maturity, authority in confidence. I cut them no slack and I am onto them. Wearing a stethoscope around your neck is meaningless to them.

If you are an older, non-trad Pre-Med Student, there are alot of perks to being an older student in medical school. You need to know this to keep you motivated. You may not know about these b/c no one talks about them. There aren't many of us around to tell you. Your younger pre-meds can't learn these skills in school but you already have them by virtue of life experiences. These are not tested in the MCAT nor captured in GPAs. But they will make or break your patient interaction. GPA and MCAT scores are meaningless in the patient setting. It's how you carry yourself that makes the day.

Sooooo.....

Chin up
Chest Out
Shoulders Back

Go study and get into medical school. You'll be a fabulous doctor.

Enjoy

I'd get plenty of emails too...if I pandered to a hungry crowd with supersized ego dogs with smarmy cheese sauce. And if I liked fooling people into giving me fellatio in the process and keeping them at it long enough to release my self-romantic blog schmaltz into them.

But I demur. And will have to settle for laughing at you. Even if it's only me and that other guy who think its hilarious.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Read this line...

...Respect is earned, and young physicians often make the terrible mistake in believing everyone should respect them b/c they have an MD. Oh boy. Far from it.

And then go back and read the rest of the post I snipped that from and tell me how you earned those patients' respect. Hint: you didn't, unless you consider looking older than the 4th year student whom you "rescued" as "earning" respect.

 

[Goro]

I think the maturity angle sums it all up. Less distractible, more discipline, more willing to sacrifice to achieve a goal. I suppose better at time mgt, and more resilient too. Perhaps after getting knocked around by life a little more than the avg 25 year old, a 30+ year old brings a more realistic perspective?

How come? Please share why.


Other than maturity, why were some of your 30+ and 40+ students your all-time best students?

 

[ChE04]

I think the maturity angle sums it all up. Less distractible, more discipline, more willing to sacrifice to achieve a goal. I suppose better at time mgt, and more resilient too. Perhaps after getting knocked around by life a little more than the avg 25 year old, a 30+ year old brings a more realistic perspective?

You mean maturity like not looking down your nose at colleagues who are younger than you?

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with Nervous Ned, Pons Asinorum, and JourneyAgent. Every post I read from the OP is just dripping with condescension towards younger generations. I think being a non-trad can be a plus, but it doesn't automatically make you a better physician, and it certainly doesn't entitle you to the holier-than-thou attitude that the OP seems to have.

 

[CastleG8]

I enjoy everyone's perspectives. If anything, I wish there were more interesting and unique pre-meds at my school. Even more than maturity, I would crave some diversity as far as life experiences.

 

[doctorold]

I'm tired of this old vs young BS. People, med schools bring in non-trads because of their life experience, they bring something different to the table. As doctors-to-be, we gonna work as a team, making the patient's experience as positive as we can by utilizing our collective strength (energy of the young and experience of the old).
I disagree with the OP. being young has its' benefits, and short comings (I wish I was young). Same goes for being an older med student.
We are all adults, and should work together, not pick on each other like kids. Grow up.



Where is the like button?

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm tired of this old vs young BS. People, med schools bring in non-trads because of their life experience, they bring something different to the table. As doctors-to-be, we gonna work as a team, making the patient's experience as positive as we can by utilizing our collective strength (energy of the young and experience of the old).
I disagree with the OP. being young has its' benefits, and short comings (I wish I was young). Same goes for being an older med student.
We are all adults, and should work together, not pick on each other like kids. Grow up.



Where is the like button?

The one thing that really impressed me in med school was how mature and focused some of my 22 year old traditional student colleagues were. I sure didn't have my act as together when I was starting law school at that age. I think different people peak at different times, and there will be both young and old people who will have the advantage and better life skills at different times along this journey. You have to milk what you've got for all its worth and not waste time taking a victory lap because you think you are better just because you've got more mileage. We all come to med school with our bag of tricks, some more useful than others. But everybody gets periodically humbled on this path, young or old.

 

[deleted480308]

My pleasure.

I have befriended (per their request) some "kids" who are in their 20s who blow away people I know in their 40s and 50s. Heck, even 60s. A friend has a relative in their 70s whom I have met and she acts like an utter child. Selfish woman. Very consumed with self. But she's in her 70s. And no dementia.

Age is a number.

In my former medical career when I interfaced with thousands of physicians, I called all medical students, Residents and Fellows by their first name. I was older than them and frankly, they were a liability in the hospital setting. In my book, they didn't rank being called Dr. It wasn't until over time that I would come to respect some of them and pull them aside to talk about their presentations to Attendings, their performance on Rounds and try to give them some counsel on how to get on the good side of their Dept Chairmen/women.

So if you're 26 and have traveled the world, scaled Mt Everest and picked up life experiences, crow about it. Medical school committees will want to know about it.

You immediate dismissal of credentials due to age is troublesome. I'd like to suggest you review your tone as it is currently in the range of, "you darn kids better get off my lawn". Take a deep breath

 

[Captain Sisko]

I'm tired of this old vs young BS. People, med schools bring in non-trads because of their life experience, they bring something different to the table. As doctors-to-be, we gonna work as a team, making the patient's experience as positive as we can by utilizing our collective strength (energy of the young and experience of the old).
I disagree with the OP. being young has its' benefits, and short comings (I wish I was young). Same goes for being an older med student.
We are all adults, and should work together, not pick on each other like kids. Grow up.



Where is the like button?

Like.

 

[45408]

In my former medical career when I interfaced with thousands of physicians, I called all medical students, Residents and Fellows by their first name. I was older than them and frankly, they were a liability in the hospital setting. In my book, they didn't rank being called Dr. It wasn't until over time that I would come to respect some of them and pull them aside to talk about their presentations to Attendings, their performance on Rounds and try to give them some counsel on how to get on the good side of their Dept Chairmen/women.

Ah, the sage adviser schtick.

Last night at the clinic where I volunteer, some of the patients in their 60s treated me with supreme respect even though I am only a first year student. The fourth year was bothered because the older patients did not take him seriously: rose colored cheeks, little boy face, poor interpersonal skills and insecure. I came to his rescue and told the patients he was my senior and I was following his lead. The older patients changed their tact. The 4th year later told me he appreciated that. So I see I'm going to have to come to the rescue of some kids who are younger but more "senior" than me b/c the patients will compare us and defer to me. Respect is earned, and young physicians often make the terrible mistake in believing everyone should respect them b/c they have an MD. Oh boy. Far from it.

Respect is earned how, by having an older face? Why do you continually comment on someone's youthful appearance as detracting from the amount of respect they warrant but then say it's earned?

 

[JourneyAgent]

These "advantages" seem more speculative and perhaps merely compensatory and made up for the very real disadvantages.

For instances, some of my best material is becoming irrelevant. My references far to obscure. I came up with a great joke relating a situation to the show CHIP's and nothing but crickets.....and my own chortling.

F@ck that what's not funny about these guys:

 

[kavorca]

In my former medical career when I interfaced with thousands of physicians, I called all medical students, Residents and Fellows by their first name. I was older than them and frankly, they were a liability in the hospital setting. In my book, they didn't rank being called Dr. It wasn't until over time that I would come to respect some of them and pull them aside to talk about their presentations to Attendings, their performance on Rounds and try to give them some counsel on how to get on the good side of their Dept Chairmen/women.

This is the most condescending attitude I have ever read. I hope by the time you are on the wards, you will look back on these posts and cringe.

 

[Croooz]

There definitely are benefits to being an older student. I'll qualify for Medicare while in medical school. You youngins don't hate!

I'm older but medicine is without a doubt a young person's profession. While I'm sure I'll have less need to go out and socialize or act a fool the reality is it would take me 2 days to recover from a night of drinking versus the 5 minutes and 2 shots of expresso that would revive the younger crowd.

I appreciate the OP's post because there are many older people who fear they have nothing to offer. However there is the danger of going toward the other side of assuming age = maturity = better physicians. The best thing about being older will be adding to the diversity and helping out in areas of experience and accepting the experience of those younger. I mean, we are talking about 22 y/o in medical school. That is a major accomplishment and I can't fault them for expecting to earn some respect from that alone or after graduating at 26. I understand that respect is earned but let's be real, we have no clue what some students been through to get to where they are and perhaps at 22 they've overcome more than the average 22 y/o and already earned some respect.

I apply next year and by the time I'm accepted I'll be married for 23 years...a year older than a trad student. If my kids had lived they would probably be my classmates. So I expect to give advice when asked and not get offended when it's ignored. My wife and I will invite students to the apartment for some homecooked meals and I'll do my best to be one of guys. No better, no worse, just older...with a slight smell of bengay.

 

[NTF]

I'm an older non-trad and I find your posts at best pathetically amusing and your utter lack of humility about yourself and your younger colleagues beyond obnoxious. And your incessant promotion of your awful blog is just the lamest thing I've encountered on SDN for awhile.

 

[JourneyAgent]

Some of us have been wondering off line whether or not this is a great character creation. Something Ricky Gervais would tee off on.

It's just too obnoxious and funny to be real.

I'm wish it was real. I love to imagine some old m-1 walking around being condescending to everyone. Maybe I get some perverse joy out of it.

Maybe I shouldn't try to call this one out just so we can enjoy its situational comedy. But I--and others--are curious at the level of commitment it would require to execute this character.

Has the level of trolling really gone matrix or this guy real...? Does it matter? Maybe comic means is a fine end.

 

[NTF]

Every year we get posts extolling the benefits of "life experience". Seriously, people need to get over themselves.

My take on the topic from two other threads, one before I started med school and one during.

I personally don't buy this hypothesis on many levels.

First, I don't think non-trads have any special ownership over the "intangibles". And even if we did, that advantage gets leveled pretty quickly. We tend to compare ourselves to pre-meds 10 years younger than us rather than those same pre-meds when they are our current ages. They'll have years of clinical practice under their belts after they've done the "maturing" we've supposedly done. So are we really that much better off? I tend to see the advantages and disadvantages on a more individual level. There's arsehole non-trads (entitled by their "wealth" of life experience, lacking in humility, dismissive of the wisdom and value of their younger colleagues' maturity and insight) as well as arsehole trads (we all know what these are like).

Second, I don't necessarily buy into the notion of "more fulfilling" specialties vs. "life-style" specialties. Mostly, because so much of this has to do with the individual personality of the doctor in question. Believe me I've met bitter, jaded and useless FPs as often as I've met shallow Plastics guys. But is it really the work itself that has less fulfillment or the nature of the person doing it. I have a great deal of respect for the work of most specialties (that I know of) when done with expertise and with humanity. Should we really value the work of a plastic surgeon who repairs a person's face after it flies through a glass windshield less than the noble work of a family doc or pediatrician? (I mean value existentially not monetarily) I personally think each individual physician is best served by going into the field of medicine that allows him/her to perform at a high level and with humanity. That's going to be different for each individual non-trad or otherwise. I don't demerit someone for going into derm if that's where they'll give expert care and not be dehumanized by the practice or process. I don't give any special points for someone who practices in rural areas. I give respect to those who do what they do with wisdom, competence, and vigilance...even if that meant walking away from medicine because they knew their talents were better served elsewhere.

Third, I know it's an easy trap for us to think we have a leg up over our traditional counterparts, but the reality is that all we've done is just GET INTO MED SCHOOL. Most of us, trad or non-trad, have yet to actually go through any substantial portion of the meat-grinder that is medical training. So I for one go into medical school and training with alot of humility. I expect to be tested and push myself. I expect to wonder whether I really have what it takes many times during the process. And I expect to learn from anyone who does anything well or knows something I don't whether they're a patient, a 19 year old pre-med, nurse, 50 year old non-trad, attending, intern, unit clerk, or housekeeper.

Just my 2 cents.

I kind of think you guys should get over yourselves.

The so called "trads" or "younger non-trads" (especially the ones you'll meet when you matriculate) aren't really in need of your mentorship. They need like we all do, collegial comraderie and support. Many of them will be smarter than you and weather the demands of med school better than you. Others won't. Sometimes you're riding high. Other times you're getting your heinie handed to you and you could use some help.

Don't get so pleased as punch with your "life experience" that you think that you can't learn something from nearly everyone you meet.

 

[534455]

This is the most condescending attitude I have ever read. I hope by the time you are on the wards, you will look back on these posts and cringe.

I just hope you're not the type of Resident who thinks they know more than the seasoned Nursing Assistant, OR Scrub Tech, Respiratory Tech, even Housekeeper who can run circles around you as to SOPs in a teaching hospital.

I once saw an OR Scrub Tech bring a surgical procedure to a grinding halt b/c the Surgical Resident, of whom you remind me, copped an attitude about knowing more than the "lesser" staff b/c they were not doctors. The Scrub Tech stopped offering instruments to the "know it all" Surgical Resident, and when the Surgical Attending walked into the OR room, he asked why the Resident was taking so long in the procedure. The Resident, thinking he could hide behind his MD degree, tried to blame the OR Scrub Tech. That went over like a lead ballon. It was the Scrub Tech who had taught the Attending how to operates decades earlier. Suffice to say he was told to leave the OR Room, the Attending took over and everyone breathed a sigh of relief. I didn't see the Resident for a while.

Hopefully you won't be one of those types....or worse, a Resident that gets thrown out of their Program b/c of their "MD" behind their name getting to their head. Happens all the time.

That's why you are in training, Missy. You're not a doctor yet.

good luck with that Teaching Hospital experience

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I just hope you're not the type of Resident who thinks they know more than the seasoned Nursing Assistant, OR Scrub Tech, Respiratory Tech, even Housekeeper who can run circles around you as to SOPs in a teaching hospital.

I once saw an OR Scrub Tech bring a surgical procedure to a grinding halt b/c the Surgical Resident, of whom you remind me, copped an attitude about knowing more than the "lesser" staff b/c they were not doctors. The Scrub Tech stopped offering instruments to the "know it all" Surgical Resident, and when the Surgical Attending walked into the OR room, he asked why the Resident was taking so long in the procedure. The Resident, thinking he could hide behind his MD degree, tried to blame the OR Scrub Tech. That went over like a lead ballon. It was the Scrub Tech who had taught the Attending how to operates decades earlier. Suffice to say he was told to leave the OR Room, the Attending took over and everyone breathed a sigh of relief. I didn't see the Resident for a while.

Hopefully you won't be one of those types....or worse, a Resident that gets thrown out of their Program b/c of their "MD" behind their name getting to their head. Happens all the time.

That's why you are in training, Missy. You're not a doctor yet.

good luck with that Teaching Hospital experience

I will be following this thread. Let the Burnett's Law-ing commence!




Jesus.....

 

[JourneyAgent]

He's.....the.....Clint Eastwood of Douche.......

---cue up the Ennio Morricone.

Haha!

 

[cbarne01]

"If at first you've nothing good to say, don't say anything at all."

To those of you who feel that "older" non-trads sound pompous or that younger trads don't have enough life experience, don't be so quick to hate. Their perspective of you is just as enlightening as yours of them. Listen, take what you will and leave the rest, but we all need to think before we speak.

 

[doctorold]

It was the Scrub Tech who had taught the Attending how to operates decades earlier.

Really? The Scrub Tech taught the Attending how to operate?
You need to chill old man!

 

[deleted480308]

I just hope you're not the type of Resident who thinks they know more than the seasoned Nursing Assistant, OR Scrub Tech, Respiratory Tech, even Housekeeper who can run circles around you as to SOPs in a teaching hospital.

I once saw an OR Scrub Tech bring a surgical procedure to a grinding halt b/c the Surgical Resident, of whom you remind me, copped an attitude about knowing more than the "lesser" staff b/c they were not doctors. The Scrub Tech stopped offering instruments to the "know it all" Surgical Resident, and when the Surgical Attending walked into the OR room, he asked why the Resident was taking so long in the procedure. The Resident, thinking he could hide behind his MD degree, tried to blame the OR Scrub Tech. That went over like a lead ballon. It was the Scrub Tech who had taught the Attending how to operates decades earlier. Suffice to say he was told to leave the OR Room, the Attending took over and everyone breathed a sigh of relief. I didn't see the Resident for a while.

Hopefully you won't be one of those types....or worse, a Resident that gets thrown out of their Program b/c of their "MD" behind their name getting to their head. Happens all the time.

That's why you are in training, Missy. You're not a doctor yet.

good luck with that Teaching Hospital experience

Ok...i'm beginning to join the camp that calls "troll". This is getting ridiculous

 

[sgemmell]

There are benefits to being an older student; but there are also disadvantages to being an older student - but it all depends on the individual. Not all older students are going to possess the generalized benefits; nor are all older students going to face the generalized disadvantages. Some younger students will have the same generalized advantages that older students have; some younger students will have some of the same generalized disadvantages that older students have.

Some of the benefits (and again, these are just generalizations) may be more life experience, better time management skills, more maturity, having children (this can be a disadvantage also), and other disadvantages. That said, there are a lot of younger students that have these same things.

Some of the disadvantages may be having to take care of children (this can be an advantage too, depending on how you view it), less in common with other students (which can make it hard to develop friendships and an support system with other students), more financial responsibilities that need to be met with the same limited resources as a younger student (this is especially true if you have children), and many other disadvantages. Again, younger students may face some of these same challenges.

In the end, we are all medical students. There are benefits and disadvantages to being both an older student and a younger student.

I am an older student and a single parent in medical school. Yeah, there are some things that my life experience has brought to me skills to use in medical school that I wouldn't have had if I had gone to medical school as a traditional student. But, there are other things that have brought me challenges in medical school that I would have had I gone to medical school as a traditional student.

None of us are "better" or "worse" simply because of our age.

 

[kavorca]

Hopefully you won't be one of those types....or worse, a Resident that gets thrown out of their Program b/c of their "MD" behind their name getting to their head. Happens all the time.

That's why you are in training, Missy. You're not a doctor yet.

good luck with that Teaching Hospital experience

It actually doesn't happen that often. People usually are self aware enough to realize that they know almost zero starting residency. It is only those with staggering lack of insight to their place on the food chain who have this problem. Luckily there are MS1s around to explain everything to them that they are doing wrong.

You should keep lecturing your fellow students, upper levels, and attendings when you hit the wards, especially in the surgical fields. One thing I have learned is that they really appreciate the reality checks you could provide them. Also make sure to explain to your chiefs and upper level residents how they aren't really doctors yet.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I've got to agree with NTF and others.

Being a traditional student comes with its own advantages and disadvantages, as does being a non-traditional student.

I also take issue with this idea that Age= Life Experience. Some people cram more life experience and gain more maturity in 25 years than some people manage in 45. Then there are all different kinds of knowledge and maturity (social, emotional, cultural, intellectual, etc) those experiences can bring so that everyone becomes a composite of these different things and brings a unique personality and perspective to the table. Some people are social maturity rockstars, but lack the same level of intellectual maturity that others have. For others its the opposite.

A young traditional student who grew up in a military family that's been based around the world at various points is going to have a whole heck of a lot more cultural awareness at 22 than someone like me, who at 30 hasn't strayed too far out of the midwest and whose only foray out of the country has been a brief trip barely into Canada. On the other hand, my work experience has taught me a ton about interacting effectively with people in a fast paced work environment with a lot of politics and bureaucracy.

That's why I think diversity is so important. Everyone has something to bring to the table regardless of age, gender, or whatever else. I think the biggest sign of maturity is recognizing that fact and using those interactions with others to bolster whatever areas you're weak in. And you will be weak in several, whether or not you have enough insight to recognize it. We should be building ourselves and our colleagues up, not beating each other down and being condescending.

For that reason, some of the posts on here bother me. There's no room for the condescension and ego in medicine, although there seems to be a ton of both. There's a quote about medicine that I really like:

"In medicine, you're either humble or you're about to be." ~uknown

The most dangerous people in a healthcare setting are those who are never wrong, aren't willing to consider the possibility, aren't willing to second guess themselves, hear other people out and consider their thoughts, or look from a different perspective. Some of the posts on here hint strongly at that kind of mindset.

 

[ChE04]

None of us are "better" or "worse" simply because of our age.

Simply not true. Clearly the OP is better. If you read his posts you would know that.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I just hope you're not the type of Resident who thinks they know more than the seasoned Nursing Assistant, OR Scrub Tech, Respiratory Tech, even Housekeeper who can run circles around you as to SOPs in a teaching hospital.

I once saw an OR Scrub Tech bring a surgical procedure to a grinding halt b/c the Surgical Resident, of whom you remind me, copped an attitude about knowing more than the "lesser" staff b/c they were not doctors. The Scrub Tech stopped offering instruments to the "know it all" Surgical Resident, and when the Surgical Attending walked into the OR room, he asked why the Resident was taking so long in the procedure. The Resident, thinking he could hide behind his MD degree, tried to blame the OR Scrub Tech. That went over like a lead ballon. It was the Scrub Tech who had taught the Attending how to operates decades earlier. Suffice to say he was told to leave the OR Room, the Attending took over and everyone breathed a sigh of relief. I didn't see the Resident for a while.

Hopefully you won't be one of those types....or worse, a Resident that gets thrown out of their Program b/c of their "MD" behind their name getting to their head. Happens all the time.

That's why you are in training, Missy. You're not a doctor yet.

good luck with that Teaching Hospital experience

Oh man more classic posts by roadlesstravel...I can't wait to see what he comes up with next

This is the same dude that thought surgery had to grovel to Med-Onc for business...and now the scrub tech is teaching the attending how to operate and the nursing assistants and housekeepers know more than the resident. The stories just keep getting better. I'm back and forth on whether this guy is even in med school.

Just saw OPs new profile picture but I think he put the wrong one up...this is what he meant to have

 

[Captain Sisko]

Best reading in the nontrad forum in some time!

 

[sgemmell]

Simply not true. Clearly the OP is better. If you read his posts you would know that.

Hahaha

 

[eject]

Oh man more classic posts by roadlesstravel...I can't wait to see what he comes up with next

This is the same dude that thought surgery had to grovel to Med-Onc for business...and now the scrub tech is teaching the attending how to operate. The stories just keep getting better. I'm back and forth on whether this guy is even in med school.

What's so irresistible about him is that he takes every kind of feedback (accolades, criticism, indifference) as a confirmation of his worldview and his own rectitude. It is a mighty fortress of narcissism that we cannot penetrate--and I'm kind of in awe of it.

 

[MsFutureDr]

I've got to agree with NTF and others.

Being a traditional student comes with its own advantages and disadvantages, as does being a non-traditional student.

I also take issue with this idea that Age= Life Experience. Some people cram more life experience and gain more maturity in 25 years than some people manage in 45. Then there are all different kinds of knowledge and maturity (social, emotional, cultural, intellectual, etc) those experiences can bring so that everyone becomes a composite of these different things and brings a unique personality and perspective to the table. Some people are social maturity rockstars, but lack the same level of intellectual maturity that others have. For others its the opposite.

A young traditional student who grew up in a military family that's been based around the world at various points is going to have a whole heck of a lot more cultural awareness at 22 than someone like me, who at 30 hasn't strayed too far out of the midwest and whose only foray out of the country has been a brief trip barely into Canada. On the other hand, my work experience has taught me a ton about interacting effectively with people in a fast paced work environment with a lot of politics and bureaucracy.

That's why I think diversity is so important. Everyone has something to bring to the table regardless of age, gender, or whatever else. I think the biggest sign of maturity is recognizing that fact and using those interactions with others to bolster whatever areas you're weak in. And you will be weak in several, whether or not you have enough insight to recognize it. We should be building ourselves and our colleagues up, not beating each other down and being condescending.

For that reason, some of the posts on here bother me. There's no room for the condescension and ego in medicine, although there seems to be a ton of both. There's a quote about medicine that I really like:

"In medicine, you're either humble or you're about to be." ~uknown

The most dangerous people in a healthcare setting are those who are never wrong, aren't willing to consider the possibility, aren't willing to second guess themselves, hear other people out and consider there thoughts, or look from a different perspective. Some of the posts on here hint strongly at that kind of mindset.

You took the words right out of my mouth.Well said! Great advise for all future MDs. I'm fortunate that i have met more humble physicians in my 10 years as a clinician. These physicians listen to everyone and respect the opinions of everyone they meet. I aspire to be like these physicians. I've met a couple of arrogant physicians suffering from that God-like complex ( it's not just surgeons)..... I know it all, i'm smarter than everyone, all subordinates are beneath me and cannot teach me anything new, i'm never wrong blah blah blah. I could predict with 99% certainty which of them will be sued because of that arrogance. Some hospitals recognize these physicians are huge liability. If i was a CEO of a hospital i would mandate my CHRO screen all providers (physicians or mid levels) applicants for humility during the interviewing process. Unfortunately no such test exists that accurately confirms lack of humility in a person. When you start believing you know everything, you are setting yourself up for failure. One more thing, every employee you meet in the hospital from the janitor, to the dietary aides, nursing assistants, technicians, social workers, nurses, medical students,mid-levels, physicians, managers, directors, all the way up to the senior executives etc, are crucial in the delivery of healthcare services to all patients. Everyone should ideally work together as one big TEAM

 

[JourneyAgent]

You took the words right out of my mouth.Well said! Great advise for all future MDs. I'm fortunate that i have met more humble physicians in my 10 years as a clinician. These physicians listen to everyone and respect the opinions of everyone they meet. I aspire to be like these physicians. I've met a couple of arrogant physicians suffering from that God-like complex ( it's not just surgeons)..... I know it all, i'm smarter than everyone, all subordinates are beneath me and cannot teach me anything new, i'm never wrong blah blah blah. I could predict with 99% certainty which of them will be sued because of that arrogance. Some hospitals recognize these physicians are huge liability. If i was a CEO of a hospital i would mandate my CHRO screen all providers (physicians or mid levels) applicants for humility during the interviewing process. Unfortunately no such test exists that accurately confirms lack of humility in a person. When you start believing you know everything, you are setting yourself up for failure. One more thing, every employee you meet in the hospital from the janitor, to the dietary aides, nursing assistants, technicians, social workers, nurses, medical students,mid-levels, physicians, managers, directors, all the way up to the senior executives etc, are crucial in the delivery of healthcare services to all patients. Everyone should ideally work together as one big TEAM

Yeah because the OP is about as humble as the insult comic dog-- nice Calvin&hobbes68.

Are you an NP msfuturedoc?

In any case, wanting to make a point to the extent of not thinking about who your colluding with without any sense of irony is being in the least....hasty.

 

[MsFutureDr]

Yeah because the OP is about as humble as the insult comic dog-- nice Calvin&hobbes68.

Are you an NP msfuturedoc?

In any case, wanting to make a point to the extent of not thinking about who your colluding with without any sense of irony is being in the least....hasty.

Oh no i'm just a regular nurse. My experience is a little different from op.I have learned so much from those who are younger than i am and as well as those who are older than me. We can all learn from each other regardless of age. I have met younger medical students, residents that were very mature and as well the immature ones. I'm a fair person, i give everyone a chance. I refuse to lump people into one category.
Usually wisdom and maturity comes with age, but it's not always the case. My single female friends complain about this issue with men today ( sorry guyz)

 

[DocGodfather]

Thanks for the excellent post! Feel more re-energized for the mcat and apps/end of the semester stuff.

 

[Birdnals]

You might have some more experience than others but everyone hates that old person who just spouts "you damn kids" all the time. Take being older for what it is, both good and bad, and realize that it doesn't make you better or worse than anyone else but that it simply makes you "you."

 

[sstespri]

Aside from the nonsense posts in here (few here and there), this thread has been interesting to keep an eye on. Lots of opinions, both positive and negative.

 

[45408]

I just hope you're not the type of Resident who thinks they know more than the seasoned Nursing Assistant, OR Scrub Tech, Respiratory Tech, even Housekeeper who can run circles around you as to SOPs in a teaching hospital.

Dr. Jan Itor is a fictional character.

And while CNAs are a thankless, underpaid job, I have never met one that aided my education at all.

I once saw an OR Scrub Tech bring a surgical procedure to a grinding halt b/c the Surgical Resident, of whom you remind me, copped an attitude about knowing more than the "lesser" staff b/c they were not doctors. The Scrub Tech stopped offering instruments to the "know it all" Surgical Resident

That's extremely unprofessional. The scrub tech was not performing his job, causing the patient's care to be delayed (while under general anesthesia), to try to prove a point.

and when the Surgical Attending walked into the OR room, he asked why the Resident was taking so long in the procedure. The Resident, thinking he could hide behind his MD degree, tried to blame the OR Scrub Tech. That went over like a lead ballon. It was the Scrub Tech who had taught the Attending how to operates decades earlier. Suffice to say he was told to leave the OR Room, the Attending took over and everyone breathed a sigh of relief. I didn't see the Resident for a while.

No. Just no.

 

[Girly X]

lolz. lots of 'em.

 

[DocVapor]

That's extremely unprofessional. The scrub tech was not performing his job, causing the patient's care to be delayed (while under general anesthesia), to try to prove a point.


No. Just no.

That was my thought as well. Blatant patient endangerment, and it gets a rousing applause from the OP. Nice.

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