BEST 6-year OMFS residency for CRANIOFACIAL?

[jbabious]

Hi,

I am applying for 6-yr OMFS residency right now and I am looking for the best program(s) for CRANIOFACIAL experience...primary CL/P, synostosis, hemifacial microsomia...

Thanks a million!

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[54807]

Hi,

I am applying for 6-yr OMFS residency right now and I am looking for the best program(s) for CRANIOFACIAL experience...primary CL/P, synostosis, hemifacial microsomia...

Thanks a million!

yeah, how bout a plastics residency and fellowship.

No externships to help guide your decision?

 

[jbabious]

I plan on doing a plastics residency and CF fellowship after OMFS. I've done externships at University of Washington, North Carolina and Michigan. I will be at Oregon in June and Texas Southwestern in August. The programs I've been to all have a hint of CF, but mostly secondary stuff for OMFS with the major turf going to plastics. Turvey at NC seems to the most CF on his own of guys at these programs. I just wanted to see if there are other spots out there that I just haven't heard a lot about. Cheers-

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

I plan on doing a plastics residency and CF fellowship after OMFS. I've done externships at University of Washington, North Carolina and Michigan. I will be at Oregon in June and Texas Southwestern in August. The programs I've been to all have a hint of CF, but mostly secondary stuff for OMFS with the major turf going to plastics. Turvey at NC seems to the most CF on his own of guys at these programs. I just wanted to see if there are other spots out there that I just haven't heard a lot about. Cheers-

If you want to do craniofacial.. why would you also do a residency in Plastic surgery? You don't have to "switch specialties" in order to practice craniofacial surgery. Craniofacial surgery is also a subspecialty of OMFS.

You can either do:

OMFS -> Craniofacial surgery fellowship

or

Plastics -> Craniofacial surgery fellowship

What you learn and your scope of craniofacial surgery after you complete your fellowship are the same. You are a craniofacial surgeon either way.



Its the same with "Hand surgery".. you can either do:

Orthopaedic surgery -> Hand surgery fellowship

or

Plastics -> Hand surgery fellowship

or

General surgery -> Hand surgery fellowship


Hand surgeons from either background are equally trained in "hand surgery".

If you want to also be able to do boobs and body contouring and other full body cosmetic procedures or something.. then by all means, you should do plastics residency. But if Craniofacial is what you want, then stick with OMS and just do a craniofacial fellowship afterwards. You will usually log a greater number of craniofacial trauma cases, orthognathics, etc in OMFS than you will at most plastics programs.. as in plastics, you will usually spend more of your time doing burns, full body cosmetics, hands, etc (other aspects of PRS). Personally I feel Plastics or OMFS.. if you want to do full time craniofacial you NEED to complete a fellowship regardless of your background. There are fellowships available to both specialties to do the same thing. When you are finished you are equally licensed as craniofacial surgeons and provided you are board certified by ABOMS and have a good log of cases (from your fellowship) you will have no problems. Plastics trained guys will tell you that if you want to do craniofacial you have to complete a plastics residency, this is simply not true. It all comes down to the number and types of cases you log during your residency and fellowship training that determines your competency and ability to obtain hospital privileges. Honestly, what are a couple of extra years treating burns, hands, and popping in breast implants going to teach you about LeFort III distraction and fronto-orbital advancements? (... nothing).

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Hi,

I am applying for 6-yr OMFS residency right now and I am looking for the best program(s) for CRANIOFACIAL experience...primary CL/P, synostosis, hemifacial microsomia...

Thanks a million!

If you want to be a well qualified OMFS craniofacial surgeon... just apply to any training program that provides you with the best full scope exposure to OMFS and then apply for a craniofacial fellowship afterwards.

Examples of OMFS craniofacial fellowships:


- Georgetown, Washington, DC
- University of Pittsburgh
- Orlando, Florida
- Charleston, West Virginia
- Plaza de los Misterios Muncipio de Huixquilacan, Mexico
- Sick Kids Hosp, Toronto, Canada
- Royal Children's Hospital in Liverpool, England
- Oxford Craniofacial Unit, Oxford, England
- Birmingham Children's Hosp, Birmingham Craniofacial Unit, England
- Chang-Gung Hosp, Taiwan
- Manuel Gea Gonzalez Hosp, Mexico City, Mexico
- Wilhelms University, Muenster, Germany

 

[jbabious]

Thanks Millisevert! You're an OMFS resident? Where? So far, so good?

Again, thanks!

 

[servitup]

Tiwana at Louisville is fellowship trained and does 1-2 primary clefts/month I am told. Also, residents do the cutting.

 

[jbabious]

Thanks servitup!

 

[TiggerJSA]

Programs that will give you significant exposure to CF are:

Louisville
Michigan
Maryland
LSU Shreve (I think)
Pittsburgh
Parkland (I think)

I know Louisville, Michigan, and Maryland all have fellowship trained guys either with Costello or Posnick. I'm pretty sure Gali does some in Shreve, and I think Sinn may still do some in Parkland (I may be mistaken). Of course, Costello is at Pitt and has his own fellowship. As far as who's cutting, I know that Tiwana at Louisville lets his residents cut, Caccamese at Maryland most likely lets his cut (but has limited volume due to competition with Johns Hopkins, although his volume may have improved since I went to dental school there), and I'm sure Gali lets residents cut if he has the cases.

Here at UAB, Dr. Waite does a ton of secondary CP repair with ICBG's if you were just looking for a taste. But, as someone else posted here, your best bet is to find a good broad scope residency that will give you a strong foundation that will support you into a fellowship if you so desire to pursue that. Hope this helps!

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Programs that will give you significant exposure to CF are:

Louisville
Michigan
Maryland
LSU Shreve (I think)
Pittsburgh
Parkland (I think)

I know Louisville, Michigan, and Maryland all have fellowship trained guys either with Costello or Posnick. I'm pretty sure Gali does some in Shreve, and I think Sinn may still do some in Parkland (I may be mistaken). Of course, Costello is at Pitt and has his own fellowship. As far as who's cutting, I know that Tiwana at Louisville lets his residents cut, Caccamese at Maryland most likely lets his cut (but has limited volume due to competition with Johns Hopkins, although his volume may have improved since I went to dental school there), and I'm sure Gali lets residents cut if he has the cases.

Here at UAB, Dr. Waite does a ton of secondary CP repair with ICBG's if you were just looking for a taste. But, as someone else posted here, your best bet is to find a good broad scope residency that will give you a strong foundation that will support you into a fellowship if you so desire to pursue that. Hope this helps!

Don't forget Oklahoma OMFS. Smith and Sullivan have both completed the craniofacial surgery fellowship at the Royal Children's hospital in Melbourne, Australia. I heard they let residents cut if they show an interest and are well prepared.

 

[jbabious]

Who's the Cf fellowship guy at Michigan? Is it Sean Edwards? I liked that program a lot and it seems like OMFS is starting to get a little bit of the Cf real estate, but the Plastics Chief, Buchman (sp?) definitely runs Cf clinic and appears to get the lion's share of the primary cases.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Who's the Cf fellowship guy at Michigan? Is it Sean Edwards? I liked that program a lot and it seems like OMFS is starting to get a little bit of the Cf real estate, but the Plastics Chief, Buchman (sp?) definitely runs Cf clinic and appears to get the lion's share of the primary cases.

Yes, its Dr. Edwards at Mich.

In Oklahoma I believe its OMFS that runs Cf clinic. Also, at Carle since there are no PRS or ENT residencies at the hospital OMFS treats all Cf cases and since they only take 1 resident per year and since there is no fellow, residents get primary operating experience on all Cf cases.

 

[Yahtzee]

Yes, its Dr. Edwards at Mich.

In Oklahoma I believe its OMFS that runs Cf clinic. Also, at Carle since there are no PRS or ENT residencies at the hospital OMFS treats all Cf cases and since they only take 1 resident per year and since there is no fellow, residents get primary operating experience on all Cf cases.

Same thing down in Jacksonville (except for the 1 resident part).

 

[54807]

Same thing down in Jacksonville (except for the 1 resident part).

dude. if you keep talking Jax up over the next 2 years I'll never have a shot matching!!

 

[LSU-Cowboy]

dude. if you keep talking Jax up over the next 2 years I'll never have a shot matching!!

The thing Jax is lacking is a good dentoalveolar component. Jax and Gainesville used to be a combined program...Jax was the trauma rotation and G-ville was the bread and butter....

 

[Yahtzee]

The thing Jax is lacking is a good dentoalveolar component. Jax and Gainesville used to be a combined program...Jax was the trauma rotation and G-ville was the bread and butter....

Wait. Dento-what now?

 

[jbabious]

Do residents at any of the Florida programs get OR time with Ramon Ruiz?

 

[LSU-Cowboy]

Wait. Dento-what now?

Dental...my bad.....bread and butter stuff...wizzies, implants...etc..

 

[rrc]

The thing Jax is lacking is a good dentoalveolar component. Jax and Gainesville used to be a combined program...Jax was the trauma rotation and G-ville was the bread and butter....

I spent some time at the program and they have dentoalveolar clinic several times per week. They do sedations, extractions, implants, etc with 1 attending watching who never scrubs in or anything. He just stands back and gives some words of encouragement. This was how it was when I was there several years ago.

 

[griller]

lets say you do a 6yr OMFS residency, how many more years of training does it take to pursue facial plastic surgery or even general plastic surgery (breast implants, liposuction, etc)?

 

[toofache32]

lets say you do a 6yr OMFS residency, how many more years of training does it take to pursue facial plastic surgery or even general plastic surgery (breast implants, liposuction, etc)?

https://www.abplsurg.org/ModDefault.aspx?section=TrainingRequire

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Hi,

I am applying for 6-yr OMFS residency right now and I am looking for the best program(s) for CRANIOFACIAL experience...primary CL/P, synostosis, hemifacial microsomia...

Thanks a million!

Also, the University of Dalhousie has a great OMFS program that will provide you with an exceptional exposure to cleft/craniofacial cases.

Dr. David Precious, Chair of Dalhousie OMFS

 

[servitup]

Do residents at any of the Florida programs get OR time with Ramon Ruiz?

Not as far as I know but BOTH Florida programs told us at interviews this past year that they were setting up rotations so who knows what the future holds.

Jacksonville's program is trauma and cancer/microvascular central but dentoalveolar is light. They do around 200 sedations/year for the whole service. They do about 100 implants/yr for the whole service, 99% of those on cancer or trauma recon cases. They also do more Ear recons than BSSO's as orthognathics is light too. They do some sweet cases in trauma, cancer, etc. though.

 

[Flappy McSuture]

Interviewed at UF Jacksonville. We were told that Dr. Steinberg does a lot of craniofacial (i.e. primary clefts, cranial synostosis, etc.) Got the impression that you do a little as a resident, but if you ask to be more involved he will let you be a part of as much as you are prepared for and can fit in time wise. Spent time at UNC and Parkland and didn't see any Craniofacial at Parkland (not to say they don't do it) and only secondary repairs at UNC. Was told while at UNC that Turvey is a part of the Craniofacial team and that you will get to be involved in some primary repairs and synostosis cases. But from what I have gathered, for Craniofacial exposure, it might be hard to beat what you could do at Jacksonville.

 

[GatorTeef]

If you are interested in Craniofacial, find out who the primary service is for the Craniofacial team. We're the primary here at Jacksonville. We do a lot of Craniofacial, enough that you wont need to do a fellowship to be comfortable, but more training is always better.

One thing I would like to clear up:

We here at jax we do PLENTY of dentoalveolar and orthognathics. It might have been like that in past, but I'm only an intern in my 4th month and I've already done over 50 sedations on everything from full mouth extractions all the way to full bony impacted 3rds. Also, I've dropped 4 implants. Sure that's not a lot now, but I'm an intern, and I'm still learning, so the majority of those cases go to the people ahead in the line.

Plus, I know for a fact that MANY residencies out there the interns do scut and would dream about the day they get to run the sedations or drop an implant.

Jacksonville is what you make of it. You can come out being totally geared for anything, because we cut A LOT (5 days a week, sometimes opening up 3 rooms all day simultaneously). I know that I want to go into private practice, so I'm making sure that I get plenty of OR time with implants, pre-prosthetic, and orthognathics. One Chief I have wants to do that, and he's well on his way. We have this reputation of being a trauma/cancer center, but the fact of the matter is that we do all that, but still end up getting PLENTY of bread and butter cases, too.

Also, I've cut cases. And I'm an intern. I'm pretty happy I matched here.

 

[dannyboy8]

Harvard/MGH has pretty good exposure. During the month I was there, I saw 3-4 distraction cases, 2 cleft orthognathic and 2 hemifacial cases (1 requiring an orbital osteotomy) and a bunch of pediatric/craniofacial stuff in the clinic. The craniofacial clinic is run by OMFS/Plastics/Pedi Surg and meets on a rotating basis in the OMFS clinic.

In addition, I was told (didn't get a chance to go over to the other campus) that the chiefs spend four months on the craniofacial service at Boston Children's hospital. This is where they get their Lefort III, Midface distraction and cleft experience. Plastics handles all of the craniosynostoses.

Kaban does most of the craniofacial stuff. Though, like Turvey he is getting old, so I'm not sure who will fill in the gap once he slows down. Dr. Padwa is the director at Children's.

 

[sajjy]

Harvard/MGH has pretty good exposure. During the month I was there, I saw 3-4 distraction cases, 2 cleft orthognathic and 2 hemifacial cases (1 requiring an orbital osteotomy) and a bunch of pediatric/craniofacial stuff in the clinic. The craniofacial clinic is run by OMFS/Plastics/Pedi Surg and meets on a rotating basis in the OMFS clinic.

In addition, I was told (didn't get a chance to go over to the other campus) that the chiefs spend four months on the craniofacial service at Boston Children's hospital. This is where they get their Lefort III, Midface distraction and cleft experience. Plastics handles all of the craniosynostoses.

Kaban does most of the craniofacial stuff. Though, like Turvey he is getting old, so I'm not sure who will fill in the gap once he slows down. Dr. Padwa is the director at Children's.

They do some crazy procedures here.