"best" carribean school?

[frenchie]

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It seems strange to refer to the islands this way given I assume you've never been to either? Not everyone needs to have everything done "American-style" in order to survive...but whatever your personal preference,"Turkish Prison" is a highly exaggerated description.

I just graduate from DO school (AZCOM) so I can provide an unbiased opinion as to which school is the best in the Carribbean.

St. George has the best reputation but it's still a Carribbean school regardless of how you try to spin it. You still graduate with IMG in your title. And it's island isn't much better than Ross. Truthfully, I don't know how much of a difference it makes if one goes to St. George vs. Ross vs. AUC. I think for FMG's, it all comes down to board scores, LOR's, and the impression you made during you audition rotation (personality). That is why I would attend the school with the best campus, and most westernized island with AUC on St. Maarten. At least you could have some semblance of fun while in medical school as opposed to feeling like you were in a Turkish prison on Dominica and Grenada.

I

 

[bravotwozero]

Which carribean school would you guys consider to be the "best", in terms of residency matches, and quality of medical education? If you guys can rank them in some kind of order, that would be great.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Which carribean school would you guys consider to be the "best", in terms of residency matches, and quality of medical education? If you guys can rank them in some kind of order, that would be great.

1. Ross and SGU
2. AUC
3. all the rest

 

[steven1174]

SGU hands down...

 

[Kwijibo]

SGU is far and away the best foreign medical school as can be seen by admission criteria, boards pass rates, and residency placement.

 

[novacek88]

I just graduate from DO school (AZCOM) so I can provide an unbiased opinion as to which school is the best in the Carribbean.

I would never encourage one to attend Ross. This is the general impression I have gotten about Ross. It's just a weed out mentality with a very "Survivor" -like mentality. They admit a large class just to watch it dwindle away. I have heard the first quarter classes can't legitimately hold that many students and that they are crammed like lab rats. That is why Ross admits an unusually large class each quarter to compensate for the students they will lose. I heard Ross loses like 1/4 by the end of their second quarter. It is just a very cutthroat mentality from what I have heard. Dominica itself is basically like an island on Survivor. It's a barren island that is very third-world like.

If I had to attend a school in the Carribbean, it would be AUC. It has a much nicer island with normal U.S. ammenities. The class size is smaller and the attitude on campus is more laid back and friendly. Ross probably has more clinical sites and it's reputation is slightly better but I would hate to start medical school in that "winner take all" mentality that pervades the Ross campus. People who attend Ross just seem so much more bitter than AUC people which is due to their siland.

St. George has the best reputation but it's still a Carribbean school regardless of how you try to spin it. You still graduate with IMG in your title. And it's island isn't much better than Ross. Truthfully, I don't know how much of a difference it makes if one goes to St. George vs. Ross vs. AUC. I think for FMG's, it all comes down to board scores, LOR's, and the impression you made during you audition rotation (personality). That is why I would attend the school with the best campus, and most westernized island with AUC on St. Maarten. At least you could have some semblance of fun while in medical school as opposed to feeling like you were in a Turkish prison on Dominica and Grenada.

I think St. George's and Ross' placement seems better because their student body is generally better. Naturally, if your student body boasts higher MCATs and GPA's, they will generally tend to do better on the boards and with classes too. But that doesn't mean a smart person can't achieve the same success if he attends AUC. I don't think there is a conspiracy to give St. George a nod over Ross and AUC students. I think the placement success is overrated. The school doesn't give one their grades or board scores. Medical school is about self discipline and self-study; we all know that.

I'm an intern at a top 25 IM program. I know at our program, they don't distinguish between St. George, Ross or AUC. You are lumped into the IMG category. The person with better credentials regardless of their school name will match here assuming you interviewed well.

 

[prefontaine]

Who determined your program is top 25 for IM?

I'm an intern at a top 25 IM program. I know at our program, they don't distinguish between St. George, Ross or AUC. You are lumped into the IMG category. The person with better credentials regardless of their school name will match here assuming you interviewed well.

 

[novacek88]

Who determined your program is top 25 for IM?

Morpheus but only after he consulted the Oracle first

 

[luvklub]

Morpheus but only after he consulted the Oracle first

hi, i'm thinking of going to the caribbean, but my gpa is a 3.4 and i had mid 20 mcat's. i don't want to go to DO school. should i stay the extra year and do a post-bacc?

 

[rokshana]

I just graduate from DO school (AZCOM) so I can provide an unbiased opinion as to which school is the best in the Carribbean.

I would never encourage one to attend Ross. This is the general impression I have gotten about Ross. It's just a weed out mentality with a very "Survivor" -like mentality. They admit a large class just to watch it dwindle away. I have heard the first quarter classes can't legitimately hold that many students and that they are crammed like lab rats. That is why Ross admits an unusually large class each quarter to compensate for the students they will lose. I heard Ross loses like 1/4 by the end of their second quarter. It is just a very cutthroat mentality from what I have heard. Dominica itself is basically like an island on Survivor. It's a barren island that is very third-world like.

If I had to attend a school in the Carribbean, it would be AUC. It has a much nicer island with normal U.S. ammenities. The class size is smaller and the attitude on campus is more laid back and friendly. Ross probably has more clinical sites and it's reputation is slightly better but I would hate to start medical school in that "winner take all" mentality that pervades the Ross campus. People who attend Ross just seem so much more bitter than AUC people which is due to their siland.

St. George has the best reputation but it's still a Carribbean school regardless of how you try to spin it. You still graduate with IMG in your title. And it's island isn't much better than Ross. Truthfully, I don't know how much of a difference it makes if one goes to St. George vs. Ross vs. AUC. I think for FMG's, it all comes down to board scores, LOR's, and the impression you made during you audition rotation (personality). That is why I would attend the school with the best campus, and most westernized island with AUC on St. Maarten. At least you could have some semblance of fun while in medical school as opposed to feeling like you were in a Turkish prison on Dominica and Grenada.

I think St. George's and Ross' placement seems better because their student body is generally better. Naturally, if your student body boasts higher MCATs and GPA's, they will generally tend to do better on the boards and with classes too. But that doesn't mean a smart person can't achieve the same success if he attends AUC. I don't think there is a conspiracy to give St. George a nod over Ross and AUC students. I think the placement success is overrated. The school doesn't give one their grades or board scores. Medical school is about self discipline and self-study; we all know that.

I'm an intern at a top 25 IM program. I know at our program, they don't distinguish between St. George, Ross or AUC. You are lumped into the IMG category. The person with better credentials regardless of their school name will match here assuming you interviewed well.

How on earth do you think as a Stateside DO student you have the ablity to give an unbiased view of Caribbean schools? Plus there is an obvious bias to your assessment of Ross(what, they reject you?).

Bias will be there for both of us, because never fear there is a stigma against DO as well as IMGs, both are seen as couldn't get into US allo schools(may not be a true one, but its there nonetheless)- I'm sure the RD didn't distingish amongst the DO students by school either- as you said "The person with better credentials regardless of their school name will match here assuming you interviewed well"-allo, US or foreign or DO, doesn't really matter does it?

 

[novacek88]

How on earth do you think as a Stateside DO student you have the ablity to give an unbiased view of Caribbean schools? Plus there is an obvious bias to your assessment of Ross(what, they reject you?).

Bias will be there for both of us, because never fear there is a stigma against DO as well as IMGs, both are seen as couldn't get into US allo schools(may not be a true one, but its there nonetheless)- I'm sure the RD didn't distingish amongst the DO students by school either- as you said "The person with better credentials regardless of their school name will match here assuming you interviewed well"-allo, US or foreign or DO, doesn't really matter does it?

The very fact that I graduated from a stateside school is how I can give an unbiased view. I would be biased if I graduated from SGU, Ross or AUC. I never attended any of the Caribbean schools so I don't have any incentive to favor one over the other. I was accepted to a competitive DO school with entrance stats far higher than Ross so I can assure you I never considered applying to any Caribbean school let alone Ross. I know several people including extended family who have attended all three Caribbean schools. I have received feedback from all of them and the people who attended AUC seemed to have been the happiest and most satisfied with their choice.

U.S. allopathic programs discriminate against D.O's and IMG's, but they still rank DO's ahead of IMG's in general. It's still M.D. > D.O. > IMG. That's just the way it is. I know our mod Stephew will disagree but then again he is on the east coast which is the only place left that truly harbors old anti-DO sentiment. The remaining sections of this country favor DO's over IMG's. Programs are aware that a considerable number of D.O.'s chose to attend an osteopathic school. But the same can't be said of IMG's. No IMG will choose an offshore school if they were admitted to a U.S. M.D. school. This is why programs assume every IMG was a U.S. allo-reject. Then there is the issue of standards. Osteopathic schools have similar albeit lower admission standards than U.S. M.D. schools. But it is still much more difficult to get accepted into a D.O. than a Caribbean school in general. Sure, you could take the very worst D.O. school and compare it to St. George but in general that's not the case. The acceptance rate for most osteopathic schools is less than 20%. It's for all these reasons D.O.'s are preferred over IMG's; this is certainly the case with my program.

I think SGU is an exception. They have required the MCAT for years and haven't shyed away from publishing their admission statistic, which have been respectable. Their application process is normal too from what I hear. An interview at St. George is taken seriously and isn't used as a publicity stunt to make it appear as if their application process is legitimate. I wouldn't be suprised if programs in certain pockets of the east coast viewed SGU and D.O. schools with the same regard. Maybe, there is some merit to attending SGU over Ross and AUC. At the same time, SGU grads are still IMG's no matter how you slice it. At the end of the day, you are still thown into the IMG pile just like we are thrown into the DO pile. Maybe on the east coast, the St. George student will be given almost-U.S.-grad status, but everywhere else, they are not going to see St. George; they are only going to see "IMG." This is why I would encourage one to pursue AUC and enjoy the creature comforts of the island instead of being miserable for 2 years. If you excel on the boards, I don't think you will be penalized because you didn't attend SGU or Ross.

 

[Kwijibo]

the main thread was asking which caribbean medical school was the best. If best is determined by living on the nicest island, then maybe you are correct. And as you said, the stigma of graduating from a caribbean medical school is one that sticks with you throughout your career, but on the other hand, is it worse to have to explain to every one of your patients what D.O. stands for? and prove that you are a real doc? Either way, neither are as good as graduating from the worst US medical school.
But as far as Carib Med schools, SGU is universally recognized as the best of the three. By no means should one think otherwise. The end result of medical school is passing your boards and placement in residency programs. Go to SGU.edu and check the pass rates and the positions people got. While the most competative fields are pretty much out of reach (derm, plastics, etc) there are good placements in other moderately competative fields (surgery, ER, anesthesia, etc), and people in primary care (peds, ob/gyn, internal med) have great match stats even in very good places. SGU also is the number one place to attend if you want to transfer to a US medical school. For this reason it is super competative in the top of the class. But don't go there expecting to transfer because very few people do- it requires being good, and even more so, being lucky.
So don't pay the D.O.'s thread too much mind, but do remember there always is a stigma attached, much as there is with everything you have been associated with in one way or the other. But remember, if you are accepted to all three, do not make the mistake of choosing anything but St. George's.

 

[HockeyDoc]

I have been away from SGU now for 10 plus years. I have completed an excellent residecy and an outstanding highly competative fellowship and have been a private practice anesthesiologist for 5 years now. I practice in a large community hospital.

Absolutely NO ONE knows or cares where I did my medical school. Some people know where I trained. EVERYONE knows I am an MD and NOT a DO.

I was judged solely on my ability and skills and I am considered one of the best in the hospital. How do I know this you might ask. Because when the hospital staff needs surgery they ask me to care for them.

Given the choice of going to a US DO school vs SGU I would chose SGU in a heartbeat. There is always a subtle if not overt bias against DOs. Novacek88 might be blind to it but it is there.

Having been the chief resident and being involved in reviewing and determining who gets into my old program and later also into my fellowship, I can tell you that SGU is looked at as head and shoulders better than the rest.

You also have to be realistic. If you want an extremely competative residency you need to go to a US allopathic medical school and kick butt in class and the boards.

 

[novacek88]

That is a pre-med myth that IMG's perpetuate and never let go of to justify their decision to go offshore(assuming of course they had a choice). Let's separate myth from fact. Most D.O.'s only have "Dr." on their coat so the questioning of their initials is often never an issue. My attendings and residents are the only ones who know I'm a DO. Those same people would know who was an IMG assuming one was in our class. If you attended St. George, your M.D. won't hide that. Hockeydoc is either oblivious or in denial to the reality facing him because the truth is most physicians he works with know he is an IMG. They obviously don't discuss that with him so he might assume they don't know, but they know and most likely don't care as they wouldn't care if he was a DO either. The only time, people wouldn't know if you were an IMG is if you worked in a clinical outpatient setting in which you didn't interact with other physicians. But in a hospital setting, it's a guarantee they know where you went to school. The stigma against D.O.'s and IMG's is perpetuated by a small number of physicians and program directors, not nurses and patients. So if one has issues with DO's, it's likely they have issues with IMG's if not moreso.

You will acquire your patients through factors other than where you trained. Patients will choose physicians based on their reputation, proximity and availability not their initials. That is the reality. Joe Smith just wants to get his Z-pack and will see the physician he gets along with and doesn't have to wait a 3 months to see. If I'm going to lose a patient because he or she randomly filled in their bubbles on a insurance form and selected M.D. instead of D.O. without asking around (highly unlikely), then so be it. I'm not worried considering I know several DO's who are not accepting any new patients.

I didn't turn this into an IMG vs. DO thread, Rokshana did but if you are going to trump up the trite: "Having to explain to patients what a DO means is painful", I certainly have a right to respond to that claim.

Granted, it would be easier being an MD than a DO but it's far worse to be denied certain residencies and fellowships. I would much rather be a cardiologist and a DO than being an aspiring IMG who had to settle on being an internist because he couldn't match at a competitive IM residency. This happened to a friend of mine who graduated from AUC. He tried to get cards at first but was denied. Last year, he tried to get into a CC/Pulm fellowship and failed. He is doing well but the bottomline is his IMG status prevented him from advancing. At my program, one of our second years is a DO and got GI at our allo program. Do you think patients will care about his initials considering that GI physicians are in a limited supply and it could take as long as 6 months to see one? Two of our cardiology fellows are DO's. I would say those are pretty competitive fields. We didn't have any IMG's match at our program this year although several applied.

Regarding placement, we had someone in my class match at Hopkins for internal medicine. We also had 3 ortho-surgery matches, 14 ER, 10 anesthesiology, 1 radiology, a neurosrurgery match and 5 true general surgery matches(not pre-lim). Not bad considering we had less than a 130 in our class and not close to 240 like SGU. I didn't include the many OB-Gyn and PMR matches. Unlike SGU, our school doesn't list our pre-lim matches as surgery matches which is why your stats are misleading. With SGU, Ross and AUC, you have to be careful with viewing their matchlists because they have nearly twice to three times the number of students per class relative to U.S. M.D. and D.O. schools so it gives a false impression that your chances of matching into a competitive field is realistic.

Having said all the above, all of you may have the last word so the true purpose of this thread can continue.

 

[drmikey]

if you have a good application with a good gpa but low mcat, or vice versa...do post-bacc and re-apply to u.s. schools, if you don't get in, the caribbean will always be an option. currently, the established and legitimate med schools in the caribbean are sgu, ross, and auc. you will need to do extensive research on each to find out which one fits you best. these three schools have proven that they are of quality and will allow you to succeed with the usmle, residency, and getting licensed. however, the more competitive residency positions (orthopaedic surgery, dermatology, most EM, and the top IM, FM, etc.) will be very hard to obtain. graduating with good scores and letters you won't have a problem getting a decent residency, but keep in mind that just as all schools have drawbacks so do residency programs.

graduating from a foreign school you still receive an MD and there is no "foreign grad" title that you have to display on your forehead. physicians, nurses, other residents/students will probably know what school you graduated from, but most people don't care where you're from as long as you do a good job. you will never have to tell a patient where you went to school or why, and probably 95% of the patients will never ask you that question. in comparing DO to MD, DO's are given the same respect as MD's, and the only ones that have a problem with DO's are the old physicians who are on the verge of retiring, and some young hotshot physicians that think that the MD next to their name means that they are gods.

 

[student80]

if you have a good application with a good gpa but low mcat, or vice versa...do post-bacc and re-apply to u.s. schools, if you don't get in, the caribbean will always be an option. currently, the established and legitimate med schools in the caribbean are sgu, ross, and auc. you will need to do extensive research on each to find out which one fits you best. these three schools have proven that they are of quality and will allow you to succeed with the usmle, residency, and getting licensed. however, the more competitive residency positions (orthopaedic surgery, dermatology, most EM, and the top IM, FM, etc.) will be very hard to obtain. graduating with good scores and letters you won't have a problem getting a decent residency, but keep in mind that just as all schools have drawbacks so do residency programs.

graduating from a foreign school you still receive an MD and there is no "foreign grad" title that you have to display on your forehead. physicians, nurses, other residents/students will probably know what school you graduated from, but most people don't care where you're from as long as you do a good job. you will never have to tell a patient where you went to school or why, and probably 95% of the patients will never ask you that question. in comparing DO to MD, DO's are given the same respect as MD's, and the only ones that have a problem with DO's are the old physicians who are on the verge of retiring, and some young hotshot physicians that think that the MD next to their name means that they are gods.

I completely agree!!! if you're good, then those who count will recognize that. doesnt matter where you do your first 2 years of med school (sciences), just matters if you learn what you need to know.

 

[blueoval]

As for schools, I would only look at SGU, AUC, and Ross. I personally chose AUC or should I say they chose me. Anyway, I have heard Saba is also a good school. They don't take federal money though, so you'd be on your own there. Do the research, take your time, look at opinions, go to an open house somewhere then decide. As for anyone looking to get a post grad, to each his own. Even after the post grad you might find that time spent put to better use if you would have just applied to the carib schools. I kept trying the US direction and they just wouln't have it.

 

[RUJC05]

So far from what I read, I think the ranking from 1 to 5 are:

1) SGU
2) Ross or AUC
3) AUC or Ross
4) SABA
5) SMU

Anybody care to disagree? Atleast with these 5 schools, residency in the U.S. shouldn't be a problem.

 

[jiy76]

thats pretty much correct when smu gets CA approval I would move it all the way up to 2. Its already better than these places but the CA thing is a big issue.

 

[RUJC05]

thats pretty much correct when smu gets CA approval I would move it all the way up to 2. Its already better than these places but the CA thing is a big issue.

Yeah, if only SMU can get CA approval. I read the report from CA on SMU. It seem like they still have a lot of work to get that approval. Being disapproved this year, it would take atleast several years (maybe even more to get CA approval).

Otherwise, it is a great school. If you can live without practicing in CA, SMU is not a bad choice. Students at SMU seem to love their education. When students are actually happy with their education, the school must be doing something right.

 

[HEME-ONC]

My Brother just finished his third year at St. Georges and my other brother just graduated from Ross. I myself want to go St. Georges. Just for the fact that at Ross as my brother described it “you either sink or swim." He went through a divorce during his third term. He basically told me that Ross wasn't really understanding with his situation. He even thought of leaving the program. He stuck it out and finished, but he barely passed step one.

My other brother who went to St. Georges loved it. The school wants you to do well and they will do everything possible for you to do well. My brother’s friend who has major ADHD was a student there, he left the program in his 2nd year but according to my brother the school helped that guy as much as they can.

Your major factor should be: I want to go to a school that wants me to become a doctor. You should just call the programs and ask every question possible. The more questions, the more answers.

Good luck =)

By the way we live in Miami, My brother who went to Ross is a U of M grad and my brother who is in St. Georges went to U of F so …

 

[peppy6]

So far from what I read, I think the ranking from 1 to 5 are:

1) SGU
2) Ross or AUC
3) AUC or Ross
4) SABA
5) SMU

Anybody care to disagree? Atleast with these 5 schools, residency in the U.S. shouldn't be a problem.

I recently learned about another school in Antigua, American University of Antigua. I read some really good things about the school but never really heard it in conversations or even in this thread. Do any of you know more about this school and how it fares among other schools?