Best D.O. schools for those looking to pursue Emergency Medicine?

[asykes]

Just as the title says, my interest lies in emergency medicine and I would really like to attend a school that can fully prepare me for an ER residency.

For reference, here is what my app looks like thus far:

GPA: 3.64c 3.65s (3.86 over last two years)

MCAT: 27

-2 years working as EMT with over 500 calls ran

-40 hours shadowing D.O.

-60 volunteer hours (40 in ER, 20 in community service)

What schools would you recommend? Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

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[Doctor Bob]

What schools would you recommend? Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

One school won't help you any more than another school. The odds of getting into EM are based on your medschool GPA, board scores, and how well you do on rotations.

 

[asykes]

Thanks for the info. Follow up question: based on my stats, are there any schools I should or should not apply to? Thanks again.

 

[TXKnight]

Thanks for the info. Follow up question: based on my stats, are there any schools I should or should not apply to? Thanks again.

The question you should ask instead is, what schools do I think I'd like to attend based on the many variables (cost,mission,stats,location,etc). The best you can do is to read more about each school in these forums. Anyway, this is your best friend for now:

http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Pages/default.aspx

 

[LaughingMan]

Probably one of the biggest things you should look at is if they have elective rotations in the 3rd year that you can do for EM.

 

[pattr]

EM is getting more and more competitive every year but it's not to the point where going to one school or another would help your chances at matching in an EM residency.

If you were interested in something ultra-competitive like ortho, neurosurg, ent... there might be some benefit in going to a certain school that sends its students for rotations at hospitals with those specific programs... for EM it's not extremely important. Just study hard and rock your steps.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

One school won't help you any more than another school. The odds of getting into EM are based on your medschool GPA, board scores, and how well you do on rotations.

How important is medschool GPA really tho? From what I've gathered it is of pretty low importance as long as you are passing your classes, do well on the boards and your rotations and have good letters of rec.

 

[Roxas]

How important is medschool GPA really tho? From what I've gathered it is of pretty low importance as long as you are passing your classes, do well on the boards and your rotations and have good letters of rec.

Doesn't class rank matter more than gpa? gpa can be very subjective based on location, but it seems like rank would be a bigger indicator.

 

[SurgeDO]

Doesn't class rank matter more than gpa? gpa can be very subjective based on location, but it seems like rank would be a bigger indicator.

class rank means nearly nothing.

GPA means absolutely nothing.

audition rotations and board scores are important...that is really it.


the medical school you attend is also a decently weighted factor--believe it or not.

 

[JDMcNugent]

I could be wrong but one of the local schools (Creighton) operates on a pass/fail basis so I have to assume that GPA may not be as great of a factor.

 

[Dreamstoo]

class rank means nearly nothing.

GPA means absolutely nothing.

audition rotations and board scores are important...that is really it.


the medical school you attend is also a decently weighted factor--believe it or not.

Yeah, I've heard this from a family friend. She said your board exams are also important especially if you want to go to a MD residency. She's now in a primary care MD residency from a mid-tier DO.

 

[cliquesh]

I could be wrong but one of the local schools (Creighton) operates on a pass/fail basis so I have to assume that GPA may not be as great of a factor.

GPA, by itself, does not matter very much, but your GPA influences your class rank, which does matter to some program directors. Moreover, GPA is often used in the selection process for Sigma Sigma Phi (the DO honor society). Being a member of SSP can be beneficial when applying to some competitive AOA residencies. Most acgme residencies, however, are unaware of SSP.

Schools that are pass fail still rank their students.

Board scores, letters, and clinical grades are the most important part of your residency application. Research isn't really that important unless youre applying to a very competitive field of medicine or a very academic institution.

Many DOs match into EM every year. Last year 178 DOs matched an acgme EM residency and 233 matched an AOA EM residency, which means roughly 8% of the class of 2013 will be EM docs. I wouldn't worry about which school you attend too much.

 

[Trogghunter]

Michigan state...period. Has 15 base hospitals with many ER programs in the no. (1-flint/Pontiac, 2. Detroit) most dangerous cities per capita in america. Yes, if you do well on your boards, you'll have a leg up from anywhere, but program directors know what type of students theyre getting when they're msu graduates, and they're highly sought after. What if you don't rock your boards and do average or worse...fail a step? Game over unless you rotate amazingly. If you do well at your msu base hospital, you'll get that spot.

 

[JediZero]

A few thoughts from a current DO EM applicant (for the OP and others):

You can do anything from anywhere, and the school's effect on your ability to match in a particular specialty is minimal. This should take a back seat when considering your med school options. Also remember that yes, even your specialty choice may change. I was dead-set on FM, and here I am, absolutely in love with EM.

One big question I will point out: geography. Are there EM residency programs near the school? Will it be easy for you to get there for auditions/interviews? If you're interested in MD programs this is less of an issue, but there are only 50 AOA EM programs, and they're clustered in Michigan, Ohio and the Tri-State area. This can be advantageous in terms of meeting alumni/faculty during your preclinical years, networking, familiarity with the hospitals, and generally making fourth year less of a headache. (I can't speak to MSU from my own experience, but I'll trust Trogghunter and add that it's one of the top DO schools, period.)

As mentioned, a school that lets you do an EM rotation before fourth year is a big help. Many will not let a new clinical student do so, though they may be more open-minded toward the end of third year when you're a little more seasoned.

As mentioned, the dirty secret of pass-fail is that they still know your raw percentage score in each class, and it all goes into your class rank. P/F is a nice 'selling point' for prospective students, but don't be fooled- your class rank will still be calculated and shared with programs.

As for the factors involved in getting into residency, I'd suggest starting with the 2012 NRMP Program Director's Survey, which talks about the factors that determine a) interviews and b) rankings. This is data MD match only, though it includes their opinions on Osteopathic applicants. You can probably extrapolate the general idea to AOA programs. Check the overall data, but the EM-specific stuff starts on page 37. On the DO side, there is the 2011 DO GME Match Report, which uses data pulled directly from ERAS rather than PD opinion to determine what qualities each successful applicant possessed (admittedly descriptive rather than predictive). Again, all good info, but the EM-specific section is on page 27.

More to the OP's point, you can look at data from the 2013 DO match by specialty and then by school (though unfortunately not by combination of the two) here. Might give you some insight.

Bottom line is that you'll do fine regardless of where you wind up. Work your ass off, do a lot of rotations in EM, and have good people skills. That'll take you a long way.

 

[JediZero]

As for your med school application, OP, you're a solid candidate to my slightly rusty eyes (I just got off of a night shift, so you'll have to excuse the mixed metaphors). No reason not to apply to a school you like; no reason to bother with a school you don't. There isn't as much of a super-selective 'top tier' in the DO world, though my impression is that there is a bit of a drop off between the older, more established schools and the younger ones (though YMMV).

 

[asykes]

As for your med school application, OP, you're a solid candidate to my slightly rusty eyes (I just got off of a night shift, so you'll have to excuse the mixed metaphors). No reason not to apply to a school you like; no reason to bother with a school you don't. There isn't as much of a super-selective 'top tier' in the DO world, though my impression is that there is a bit of a drop off between the older, more established schools and the younger ones (though YMMV).

Thanks for writing up those posts, they were very helpful!

 

[asykes]

As for your med school application, OP, you're a solid candidate to my slightly rusty eyes (I just got off of a night shift, so you'll have to excuse the mixed metaphors). No reason not to apply to a school you like; no reason to bother with a school you don't. There isn't as much of a super-selective 'top tier' in the DO world, though my impression is that there is a bit of a drop off between the older, more established schools and the younger ones (though YMMV).

Thanks for writing up those posts, they were very helpful!

 

[TwinsFan]

In general it doesn't matter, but a few schools (MSU etc) will give a leg up by doing core rotations at areas with AOA ER residency programs.

 

[Doctor Bob]

if you do well on your boards, you'll have a leg up from anywhere...

This is true

but program directors know what type of students theyre getting when they're msu graduates, and they're highly sought after.

No more so than any other place.

What if you don't rock your boards and do average or worse...fail a step? Game over unless you rotate amazingly.

This is true

If you do well at your msu base hospital, you'll get that spot.

So long as you also do well on boards and have a strong GPA... but it's the good board scores and strong GPA that will get you the interview, not the school you're coming from.

 

[ruiner]

So long as you also do well on boards and have a strong GPA... but it's the good board scores and strong GPA that will get you the interview, not the school you're coming from.

While I don't disagree with what you're saying, his comment about getting a spot at a base hospital is correct also. A lot of MSUCOM grads get specialty residencies without amazing scores based on the fact that their base hospital has a program and they rocked it while rotating through. I'm at MSUCHM and know COM students who have done it for ortho, derm, and em.

Edit: Obviously they still have ok scores, you still need to have some aptitude

 

[Doctor Bob]

A lot of MSUCOM grads get specialty residencies without amazing scores based on the fact that their base hospital has a program and they rocked it while rotating through. I'm at MSUCHM and know COM students who have done it for ortho, derm, and em.

Edit: Obviously they still have ok scores, you still need to have some aptitude

So what you're talking about is getting a spot at the place you do a core rotation because you did well on the rotation. Sure, that happens all the time.

The inference made by Trogghunter, at least as far as I understood it, was that PDs at facilities other than the ones MSU grads go through, will want to take MSU grads just because of the rotations they do. I would posit that it is not the case.

Certainly if you do a rotation and you do well it gives you an edge at that facility. But that has to do with individual performance and is not because of the school you went to. Could you argue that by not going to that school you never would have been able to do that rotation? Yes, but it's still a leap to say that it is the proximate cause. Students at all of the COMs have away electives which give them the opportunity to shine on rotations at facilities with residencies.