best DO schools?

[Orthodoc40]

None of this is Unique to DMU

Maybe not unique, but it isn't seen at all schools yet.

Go to PCOM
We have those plus a laparascopic simulator.

I've been told that DMU does, too, actually.

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[Static Line]

VCOM is graduating its first class this year

Very true. VCOM is doing everything right to get its name out there and is an up and coming school with a big future. Recruiting big people with big money in research. Partnering with the right institutions to create AOA/ACGME residencies like Nuerosurgery, and lots of others in the works like FM, EM, Gen Surg, IM, OMM fellowships, already have SM fellows etc... More probably I am sure I don't know about.

That said: VCOM has a long ways to go to catch up to the established big playas.

 

[Dr JPH]

I've been told that DMU does, too, actually.

I have heard rumors but have not had anyone from DMU to confirm. Last I heard they were renting a machine for a month at a time to train residents. PCOM owns a machine and in fact just purchased new software that allows us to do more procedures.

There arent many of these lap sims floating around.

 

[Dr JPH]

Very true. VCOM is doing everything right to get its name out there and is an up and coming school with a big future. Recruiting big people with big money in research. Partnering with the right institutions to create AOA/ACGME residencies like Nuerosurgery, and lots of others in the works like FM, EM, Gen Surg, IM, OMM fellowships, already have SM fellows etc... More probably I am sure I don't know about.

That said: VCOM has a long ways to go to catch up to the established big playas.

Exactly. I dont see how it can be considered one of the "best" DO schools...not yet anyway.

I am sure it is a great school and the people I have met from there are incredibly nice.

 

[jpatzi]

I do not know if the one simulator that DMU has is rented, but it is used to train first and second years, and they are getting 3 more simulators beginning in the fall.

 

[Dr JPH]

I just spoke with a friend.

He said DMU has, and is looking to purchase more, simulators. From what he tells me they are the portable video simulators.

The simulator I am referring to at PCOM is a 3-dimensional simulator. Its not 2 arms grasping at foam rubber with a top-mounted camera.

The difference is several hundred thousand dollars

 

[HarveyCushing]

I just spoke with a friend.

He said DMU has, and is looking to purchase more, simulators. From what he tells me they are the portable video simulators.

The simulator I am referring to at PCOM is a 3-dimensional simulator. Its not 2 arms grasping at foam rubber with a top-mounted camera.

The difference is several hundred thousand dollars

I hope that KCUMB gets one of them before I graduate. I would love to gain experience using one of them.

 

[Dr JPH]

I hope that KCUMB gets one of them before I graduate. I would love to gain experience using one of them.

I used one of the cheap ones at a vendor fair once.

It was basically a camera that you would mount on your computer that pointed down through a hole at foam rubber and plastic organs. Then you took your tools and performed the surgery while looking at a laptop screen that had the picture from the camera. It was pretty bad.

 

[HarveyCushing]

I used one of the cheap ones at a vendor fair once.

It was basically a camera that you would mount on your computer that pointed down through a hole at foam rubber and plastic organs. Then you took your tools and performed the surgery while looking at a laptop screen that had the picture from the camera. It was pretty bad.

I saw the YouTube video of PCOM on Channel 10, and your laparoscopic sim is Seems like it is the perfect tool to teach students. How many different procedures does it come with?

 

[spicedmanna]

I hope that KCUMB gets one of them before I graduate. I would love to gain experience using one of them.

Likewise. Perhaps, later, we can suggest this to the CQI committee?

 

[HarveyCushing]

Likewise. Perhaps, later, we can suggest this to the CQI committee?

Yeah that would be awesome. Maybe the school didn't think there would be an interest on the part of the students to justify its purchase? The fact that the school opened the new clinical education building with the 6 simulators means that the school has a huge interest in providing its students with the best education possible.

 

[spicedmanna]

Yeah that would be awesome. Maybe the school didn't think there would be an interest on the part of the students to justify its purchase? The fact that the school opened the new clinical education building with the 6 simulators means that the school has a huge interest in providing its students with the best education possible.

It's talking about stuff like this that gets me super-excited about starting school.

 

[Static Line]

Yeah that would be awesome. Maybe the school didn't think there would be an interest on the part of the students to justify its purchase? The fact that the school opened the new clinical education building with the 6 simulators means that the school has a huge interest in providing its students with the best education possible.

That's ridiculous to think that students before you, your upperclassman wouldn't or didn't have an interest in a piece of surgical equipment that would help them improve their training. Go to the surgery club when you matriculate and tell them what a bright idea you came up with on SDN to help improve things over there. Maybe you'll be elected surgery club chair.

 

[HarveyCushing]

That's ridiculous to think that students before you, your upperclassman wouldn't or didn't have an interest in a piece of surgical equipment that would help them improve their training. Go to the surgery club when you matriculate and tell them what a bright idea you came up with on SDN to help improve things over there. Maybe you'll be elected surgery club chair.

 

[Steel_City]

Noooooot Lecom!!!

 

[Orthodoc40]

There are some allopathic schools that have reputations for 'teaching to the boards'. Does anyone know if any osteopathic schools have that reputation?

 

[spicedmanna]

There are some allopathic schools that have reputations for 'teaching to the boards'. Does anyone know if any osteopathic schools have that reputation?

When I interviewed at WU/COMP, they told me they had newly revamped their curriculum in order to up their board pass rates. A lot of the focus of the curriculum presentation was on the boards; they even attemped to demonstrate an online board-review session that was integrated with powerpoint, or something of the sort, that they had set up.

 

[medhacker]

@ PCOM some of our faculty are COMLEX question writers
Often during lecture profs are known to say "know this for the boards" - "this will be on the boards"

Also, a large number of our test questions have been as hard or harder than board like questions.

 

[Taus]

@ PCOM some of our faculty are COMLEX question writers
Often during lecture profs are known to say "know this for the boards" - "this will be on the boards"

Also, a large number of our test questions have been as hard or harder than board like questions.

while I agree w/ that first part.....our tests are nothing like the boards....except for maybe 10% of the Q's on each test..none really required anything past 2nd order reasoning....you'll find out what I'm talking about right around this time next year

 

[Dr JPH]

while I agree w/ that first part.....our tests are nothing like the boards....except for maybe 10% of the Q's on each test..none really required anything past 2nd order reasoning....you'll find out what I'm talking about right around this time next year

I had a long response to this but I just deleted it.

Ive wasted enough time over the last 3 years on PCOM 1st & 2nd years trying to help them.

And every year Savarese is God and PCOMs board pass rate goes further into the $hitter.

I cant wait to leave.

 

[medhacker]

while I agree w/ that first part.....our tests are nothing like the boards....except for maybe 10% of the Q's on each test..none really required anything past 2nd order reasoning....you'll find out what I'm talking about right around this time next year

I certainly did not mean all the questions

The only way I could say they are like actual USMLE / COMLEX questions was if I compared them to NBME questions or post-COMLEX compiled questions, which I have not. I could but I will save those babies for later .

I have compared them to some of Kaplan QBANK, USMLEeasy, and Robbins Review Pathology questions and they were as hard or harder.

So, in my comparison, while not all of our test questions qualify, a good number are up there with those sources I used. That is, upthere with BOARD-LIKE questions (qbanks etc) not the actual test questions but available board-like questions.


P.S.: And believe you me, I hate those you-must-memorize-ridiculous-minutiae questions we tend to get

 

[medhacker]

I had a long response to this but I just deleted it.

Ive wasted enough time over the last 3 years on PCOM 1st & 2nd years trying to help them.

And every year Savarese is God and PCOMs board pass rate goes further into the $hitter.

I cant wait to leave.

No way man,

give us the scoop, are board scores going down in your perception?

 

[Dr JPH]

No way man,

give us the scoop, are board scores going down in your perception?

Sorry, JP is retiring.

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

MSUCOM is ranked #2 in the nation for primary care!

 

[Krazykritter]

I had a long response to this but I just deleted it.

Ive wasted enough time over the last 3 years on PCOM 1st & 2nd years trying to help them.

And every year Savarese is God and PCOMs board pass rate goes further into the $hitter.

I cant wait to leave.

Interesting to hear this as it is almost the opposite at DMU. Our professors tell us every year that our OMM notes & review material they provide us are more than sufficient & evidently they are b/c from what the administration tells us, our OMM board scores are far above average. Then again we also spend the most hours of any school in OMM (again the word from the department & don't know whether it's true or not).

Our final OMM exam was also fairly heavy on board style questions which was good to see. Is the Savarese book any good though?

 

[medhacker]

Interesting to hear this as it is almost the opposite at DMU. Our professors tell us every year that our OMM notes & review material they provide us are more than sufficient & evidently they are b/c from what the administration tells us, our OMM board scores are far above average. Then again we also spend the most hours of any school in OMM (again the word from the department & don't know whether it's true or not).

Our final OMM exam was also fairly heavy on board style questions which was good to see. Is the Savarese book any good though?

We will never know now, JP is retiring

 

[Dr JPH]

Interesting to hear this as it is almost the opposite at DMU. Our professors tell us every year that our OMM notes & review material they provide us are more than sufficient & evidently they are b/c from what the administration tells us, our OMM board scores are far above average. Then again we also spend the most hours of any school in OMM (again the word from the department & don't know whether it's true or not).

Our final OMM exam was also fairly heavy on board style questions which was good to see. Is the Savarese book any good though?

You missed my point.

PCOMs OMM curriculum and the tests ARE board style. For some reason the current students dont believe us when we tell them, and they flock to Savarese for COMLEX prep. And the recent board scores have shown it.

Savarese doesnt write board questions, but PCOM faculty do. So why would they write one type of Q for exams and another for boards? They wouldnt and they DONT.

The final exam the MS2 took was very much board style, and probably some similar questions ended up being submitted to boards.

But the students will study what and how they like.

 

[Dr JPH]

We will never know now, JP is retiring

Ive said it enough. Im done trying to help. My words and actions are taken for granted and in the end I dont end up getting anywhere.

 

[UltimateDO]

I certainly did not mean all the questions

I have compared them to some of Kaplan QBANK, USMLEeasy, and Robbins Review Pathology questions and they were as hard or harder.

So, in my comparison, while not all of our test questions qualify, a good number are up there with those sources I used. That is, upthere with BOARD-LIKE questions (qbanks etc) not the actual test questions but available board-like questions.

Now that we have completely hijacked the thread.
Trust me, do not make the mistake of using Kaplan's COMLEX Q-Bank. The OMM questions are awful. I teach for Kaplan and they have made no changes in spite of the input from myself and other OMS teachers.
In talking to Dr. E about the changes they have planned to make you would be well advised to take advantage of your school's Fellows (like J.P.) and believe it or not try to read Foundations (choosing chapters carefully of course ).

 

[Taus]

JP...I wasn't talking about the OMM tests...I don't doubt in the least bit that our final was like the boards (which I rocked after reading that POS review book and skimming the scribes...albeit I did pay attention the past couple years..)

medhacker....unless they have pulled a total 180 for your classes tests...they were no where near the Robbins review Q's....I did those before every single one of our tests, along w/ a few other Qbanks over the last 2 years....maybe 5 q's per test required "boards-style" thinking....I don't mean our tests were easy....but the questions weren't exactly "thinkers" if you knew the material

 

[Beau Geste]

Ive said it enough. Im done trying to help. My words and actions are taken for granted and in the end I dont end up getting anywhere.

I'm sorry you feel that way

I've seen lots of your posts and you are extremely helpful. I don't think I've ever asked you anything directly but some of the topics applied to me and you give great advice.

Thanks for what you did give!

 

[medhacker]

Now that we have completely hijacked the thread.
Trust me, do not make the mistake of using Kaplan's COMLEX Q-Bank. The OMM questions are awful. I teach for Kaplan and they have made no changes in spite of the input from myself and other OMS teachers.
In talking to Dr. E about the changes they have planned to make you would be well advised to take advantage of your school's Fellows (like J.P.) and believe it or not try to read Foundations (choosing chapters carefully of course ).

Yeah, complete hijack LOL

I meant USMLE Kaplan Qbank not the comlex one.

Thanks for the foundation's tip (What do you mean by choosing chapters carefully though?)

 

[Beau Geste]

LOL CCOM is looking really good to me b/c it's 45 minutes from home (meaning I wouldn't have to MOVE).

 

[Taus]

Yeah, complete hijack LOL

I meant USMLE Kaplan Qbank not the comlex one.

Thanks for the foundation's tip (What do you mean by choosing chapters carefully though?)

Kaplans Qbank is also more like a med school test then the current boards.....only about 1/3 of its q's reflect the current boards format....so I guess I can't fault you for your logic....

and USMLEeasy (while its nice that its free for us)...is total crap IMO...

Robbins Q's are legit Q's....if you can handle those you're in great shape....

ha...sorry I guess all I can think about these days are boards...

 

[Taus]

LOL CCOM is looking really good to me b/c it's 45 minutes from home (meaning I wouldn't have to MOVE).

haha...nothing like airing a little dirty laundry....

seriously though...I hope no one mis-interpreted what I said....I'll try to make it clearer:

were we well taught? Absolutely
were we taught board relevant material? Absolutely
was there an over-abundance of irrelevant minutia taught/tested? on the low side compared to friends I have at several schools
were our tests easy? not really...you had to know your $hit
were the questions on our tests (not talking about OMM) in boards format? maybe 30%
do I feel prepared for the boards and clinical rotations? absolutely....though board prep no matter where you are is mostly an
individual effort

I guess my main point was that our tests were more about what you know then how you can apply it (like the boards)....which isn't necessarily a bad thing b/c sitting through a 150 Q test full of paragraph long questions every few weeks is a pain in the ass....

 

[Dr JPH]

Also remember that as of the last ECOP meeting, PCOM was the only DO school returning OMM exams to students to use as study material.

There is something to be said about that.

And something to be said about the fact that the Dept Chair of OMM at PCOM is the longest tenured OMM chair in the osteopathic community. In fact, the average length of chairmanship is in the range of 5 years. We have a chair who has been with us nearly 6 times as long. His manual and teaching style were responsible for the birth of OMM departments at at least 4 other schools...all of which came when PCOM grads went out and helped establish these schools.

Believe it or not the PCOM OMM Department cares a great deal about how our students do on boards and in the real world.

 

[Taus]

Believe it or not the PCOM OMM Department cares a great deal about how our students do on boards and in the real world.

I don't think anyone doubts that....its pretty easy to see how dedicated they are and how much they care

 

[Krazykritter]

Also remember that as of the last ECOP meeting, PCOM was the only DO school returning OMM exams to students to use as study material.

There is something to be said about that.

Gotta hand it to PCOM for doing this. I would love to have a copy of OMM exams to review for the boards.

I did miss your first point, JP. Not surprised that people run out & buy Savarese though...90% of our class is that neurotic about all things boards too.

 

[Dr JPH]

Not surprised that people run out & buy Savarese though...90% of our class is that neurotic about all things boards too.

Jokes on them when they find out that the boards are much more difficult than the savarese review book.

And even funnier when they show up to an OMM practical exam quoting Savareses book and forget to realize there are several mistakes in the book.

I dont know why students dont use the AOA and NBOME suggested board review book by Dr Crow. Mystery.