Best ECs ever

[Toffey]

So i've been looking into what ECs I would like to do and this forum has been pretty helpful.

So in general , it is better to volunteer or work for a meaningful organization (homeless clinic, tutoring underserved kids, ect) than to work the typical pre-med jobs of scribe, EMT, and such? That seems to be the vibe I've gotten here.

Is it ok to sacrifice some clinical exposure time in order to show your altruism and that you care about your community, and if so how much? I'm trying to figure out my time commitments to various organizations

This may be an overly technical question but if you could give a proportion in % of how much time should be spent in research/non clinical work/clinical work, what would your numbers be?

And yeah, I know we should all do what we like doing and what we have a passion for..my question is about how much time should one reasonably commit to these passions while in undergrad.

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[deleted407021]

As much time as you can commit without burning out or doing poorly in classes. There is no ideal percentage of this or that. Get some clinical and community service, get involved with some clubs and try to be involved in leadership. I'd say the only thing that you need a standard amount of hours for is shadowing; no less that 50 hrs in a few specialties, at least one a PCP. If you like research, try to do a bit of that.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Niche organizations with potential leadership opportunities like: blind centers, womens and children's shelters, autism centers, etc.. I am one of the only pre-meds I know in my area who takes advantage of some of these opportunities. Most people do not do them because they make you get your hands dirty.. I have cooked in ghetto a** kitchens in the ghetto, worked with people who speak languages I can't understand, and have picked up sh** tons of trash off elementary school premises. I think volunteering with The Nature Conservancy is cool too. I planted willow trees to restore the habitat of an endangered species of bird called The Southwestern Willow Flycatcher. That was a really awesome experience. I think these other orgs complement general volunteer hours quite well; also, most of these niche organizations are severely under served so you will really be appreciated.
My only tip is that you attemot to log at least 50 hours with whichever orgs you start with. One time events are not bad, but commitment obviously looks better. Also, log your activities everyday. You want to be able to describe your purpose when you're volunteering at unusual places at interviews.

 

[allantois]

Let's try,
Research: whole summer/ or 2 regular semesters/ or more
Clinical Volunteering: consistent over long period of time
Nonclinical: you can get creative here.

Btw EMT is not a typical pre-med thing.
Also try to through in some leadership in there, which could be through a school club

 

[Toffey]

Niche organizations with potential leadership opportunities like: blind centers, womens and children's shelters, autism centers, etc.. I am one of the only pre-meds I know in my area who takes advantage of some of these opportunities. Most people do not do them because they make you get your hands dirty.. I have cooked in ghetto a** kitchens in the ghetto, worked with people who speak languages I can't understand, and have picked up sh** tons of trash off elementary school premises. I think volunteering with The Nature Conservancy is cool too. I planted willow trees to restore the habitat of an endangered species of bird called The Southwestern Willow Flycatcher. That was a really awesome experience. I think these other orgs complement general volunteer hours quite well; also, most of these niche organizations are severely under served so you will really be appreciated.
My only tip is that you attemot to log at least 50 hours with whichever orgs you start with. One time events are not bad, but commitment obviously looks better. Also, log your activities everyday. You want to be able to describe your purpose when your volunteering at unusual places at interviews.

I like you That's kind of my goal too, I live in an area with some pretty crappy neighborhoods and a huge homeless population. I'm hoping to build experience particularly in these types of places

 

[Mad Jack]

I had zero research and 60 hours of volunteering, with zero clubs or other ECs. Everyone that interviewed me was okay with it because I had >11,000 hours of paid clinical experience.

 

[Toffey]

I had zero research and 60 hours of volunteering, with zero clubs or other ECs. Everyone that interviewed me was okay with it because I had >11,000 hours of paid clinical experience.

NIce. Sadly, I don't think I've spent 11,000 hours doing anything except maybe sleep and study

 

[Mad Jack]

If I were to pull a formula out of my ass I'd say:
Multipliers are multiplied by hours of participation

Paid Clinical Hours: 0.25 multiplier
Volunteer Hours, non-clinical: 1.0 multiplier
Volunteer Hours, clinical, non-caregiver role: 0.5 multiplier
Volunteer Hours, clinical, caregiver role: 1.5 multiplier
Research Hours: 1.0 multiplier
Published Research Project: Add 100 points
Club or Student Government Position, minor: Add 15 points
Club or Student Government Position, major: Add 30 points
Award, minor: Add 10 points
Award, major: Add 30 points
Award, national, major: Add 100 points
Sports participation, minor: Add 30 points
Sports participation, major: Add 75 points
Sports participation, nationally recognized team: Add 100 points
Only one type of EC: Subtract 500 points
Only two types of EC: Subtract 300 points
Only three types of EC: Subtract 100 points
Get 500 points and you win- you have equal consideration for med school as the average
750 gives you above average odds of getting in or makes up for minor deficits elsewhere
1,000 gives you an extremely high chance of getting in, or makes up for a few more deficits elsewhere.

And that's the completely crap scale I just made up that doesn't mean anything at all and if I ever see it again I'm going to roll my eyes clean out of my head.

 

[Toffey]

^ this needs to be given to every neurotic little freshman pre-med out there

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Let's try,
Research: whole summer/ or 2 regular semesters/ or more
Clinical Volunteering: consistent over long period of time
Nonclinical: you can get creative here.

Btw EMT is not a typical pre-med thing.
Also try to through in some leadership in there, which could be through a school club

I'm taking my EMT course next semester; I'm excited for it.

 

[Toffey]

I'm taking my EMT course next semester; I'm excited for it.

It's a fun class, but I personally didn't find it as helpful job-wise as I thought it would be....for me volunteering in the hospital as an EMT > ambulance EMT. But that's just me

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

It's a fun class, but I personally didn't find it as helpful job-wise as I thought it would be....for me volunteering in the hospital as an EMT > ambulance EMT. But that's just me

I will see. I actually need a job that pays something when I transfer to university, and I have seen scribes, EMTs, and medical assistants. Personally, I would rather work as an EMT out of those basic options.

 

[Toffey]

I will see. I actually need a job that pays something when I transfer to university, and I have seen scribes, EMTs, and medical assistants. Personally, I would rather work as an EMT out of those basic options.

Yep, this is true Good luck in the class, after all the pre-med science classes, it should be a breeze!

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Thanks, good luck to you as well.

 

[sunflower18]

Honestly, my opinion is that the best ECs tell a story. Interested in primary care? It looks good to have a lot of community service in free clinics, time spent shadowing family practitioners, etc. Have personal experience with a particular illness? Might want to engage in lots of research and outreach and advocacy for groups centered around the cause. Want to go into academic medicine? Probably not a bad idea to spend significant time engaged in research and teaching. Certain ECs look good no matter what -- clinical volunteering, leadership, scribe/MA/EMT, for example -- since they relate to being a physician/medical practitioner without necessarily contributing to an overarching story or motivation. But overall, I am most impressed with applications who present a clear narrative of the applicant and their passions, goals, and beliefs. That's not to say that unfocused apps get tossed in the garbage, by any means. There are certainly benefits to exploration and a wide variety of interests. I just personally really admire clear directionality with every or almost every activity and essay contributing to an overlying message.

My own application did not successfully tell a single story, though. Instead it is centered around three themes: communication, humanism, and a goal to become an academic physician. I wish that I could have made my activities and everything a bit more streamlined instead of juggling multiple narratives and ideas, but I think my passion for all three of these ideas have come across. Most of my interviewers have acknowledged the clear presence of these stories in my application and interview answers, and I think that's been helpful in my success so far this cycle -- the admissions committees have a really good idea of who I am and what kind of physician I want to be (both in terms of priorities and practice environment), so they are better able to decide whether or not I'd truly fit in/succeed at their institution.

I may be totally off-base, but this has been my observation/experience during this cycle. Best of luck in your own application!

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Honestly, my opinion is that the best ECs tell a story. Interested in primary care? It looks good to have a lot of community service in free clinics, time spent shadowing family practitioners, etc. Have personal experience with a particular illness? Might want to engage in lots of research and outreach and advocacy for groups centered around the cause. Want to go into academic medicine? Probably not a bad idea to spend significant time engaged in research and teaching. Certain ECs look good no matter what -- clinical volunteering, leadership, scribe/MA/EMT, for example -- since they relate to being a physician/medical practitioner without necessarily contributing to an overarching story or motivation. But overall, I am most impressed with applications who present a clear narrative of the applicant and their passions, goals, and beliefs. That's not to say that unfocused apps get tossed in the garbage, by any means. There are certainly benefits to exploration and a wide variety of interests. I just personally really admire clear directionality with every or almost every activity and essay contributing to an overlying message.

My own application did not successfully tell a single story, though. Instead it is centered around three themes: communication, humanism, and a goal to become an academic physician. I wish that I could have made my activities and everything a bit more streamlined instead of juggling multiple narratives and ideas, but I think my passion for all three of these ideas have come across. Most of my interviewers have acknowledged the clear presence of these stories in my application and interview answers, and I think that's been helpful in my success so far this cycle -- the admissions committees have a really good idea of who I am and what kind of physician I want to be (both in terms of priorities and practice environment), so they are better able to decide whether or not I'd truly fit in/succeed at their institution.

I may be totally off-base, but this has been my observation/experience during this cycle. Best of luck in your own application!

You got accepted; I am taking note of this..

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Honestly, my opinion is that the best ECs tell a story. Interested in primary care? It looks good to have a lot of community service in free clinics, time spent shadowing family practitioners, etc. Have personal experience with a particular illness? Might want to engage in lots of research and outreach and advocacy for groups centered around the cause. Want to go into academic medicine? Probably not a bad idea to spend significant time engaged in research and teaching. Certain ECs look good no matter what -- clinical volunteering, leadership, scribe/MA/EMT, for example -- since they relate to being a physician/medical practitioner without necessarily contributing to an overarching story or motivation. But overall, I am most impressed with applications who present a clear narrative of the applicant and their passions, goals, and beliefs. That's not to say that unfocused apps get tossed in the garbage, by any means. There are certainly benefits to exploration and a wide variety of interests. I just personally really admire clear directionality with every or almost every activity and essay contributing to an overlying message.

My own application did not successfully tell a single story, though. Instead it is centered around three themes: communication, humanism, and a goal to become an academic physician. I wish that I could have made my activities and everything a bit more streamlined instead of juggling multiple narratives and ideas, but I think my passion for all three of these ideas have come across. Most of my interviewers have acknowledged the clear presence of these stories in my application and interview answers, and I think that's been helpful in my success so far this cycle -- the admissions committees have a really good idea of who I am and what kind of physician I want to be (both in terms of priorities and practice environment), so they are better able to decide whether or not I'd truly fit in/succeed at their institution.

I may be totally off-base, but this has been my observation/experience during this cycle. Best of luck in your own application!

PS friend, I am pretty dead-set on cardiothoracic surgery.
Outside of obviously shadowing the surgeons and PCP--which is a necessity if I think I am right--would you recommend any other ways of expressing my interest?
I would think volunteering in same-day-surgery or surgical services would be the most logical, at a hospital, volunteer-wise.
Other than that, perhaps attending a heart conference, or applying for summer internships?
I have noticed a dichotomy between sub-specialties and specialties like FM. For example, every one loves the altruistic PCP applicant, who is interested in rural practice, right? However, when I mention I am interested in cards surg I hear, "Well hold on buddy, you need to be realistic about your goals here."
I am keeping an open mind, but I know I love watching surgeries, especially treating the heart and lungs.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Honestly, my opinion is that the best ECs tell a story. Interested in primary care? It looks good to have a lot of community service in free clinics, time spent shadowing family practitioners, etc. Have personal experience with a particular illness? Might want to engage in lots of research and outreach and advocacy for groups centered around the cause. Want to go into academic medicine? Probably not a bad idea to spend significant time engaged in research and teaching. Certain ECs look good no matter what -- clinical volunteering, leadership, scribe/MA/EMT, for example -- since they relate to being a physician/medical practitioner without necessarily contributing to an overarching story or motivation. But overall, I am most impressed with applications who present a clear narrative of the applicant and their passions, goals, and beliefs. That's not to say that unfocused apps get tossed in the garbage, by any means. There are certainly benefits to exploration and a wide variety of interests. I just personally really admire clear directionality with every or almost every activity and essay contributing to an overlying message.

My own application did not successfully tell a single story, though. Instead it is centered around three themes: communication, humanism, and a goal to become an academic physician. I wish that I could have made my activities and everything a bit more streamlined instead of juggling multiple narratives and ideas, but I think my passion for all three of these ideas have come across. Most of my interviewers have acknowledged the clear presence of these stories in my application and interview answers, and I think that's been helpful in my success so far this cycle -- the admissions committees have a really good idea of who I am and what kind of physician I want to be (both in terms of priorities and practice environment), so they are better able to decide whether or not I'd truly fit in/succeed at their institution.

I may be totally off-base, but this has been my observation/experience during this cycle. Best of luck in your own application!

I completely agree here. My own application is even less "focused on a single narrative" than yours, and that might be what's holding me back (I have no acceptances yet and didn't have nearly as many interviews as you did). However, I do love great stories, and I think the best applicants have awesome stories.

 

[sunflower18]

PS friend, I am pretty dead-set on cardiothoracic surgery.
Outside of obviously shadowing the surgeons and PCP--which is a necessity if I think I am right--would you recommend any other ways of expressing my interest?
I would think volunteering in same-day-surgery or surgical services would be the most logical, at a hospital, volunteer-wise.
Other than that, perhaps attending a heart conference, or applying for summer internships?
I have noticed a dichotomy between sub-specialties and specialties like FM. For example, every one loves the altruistic PCP applicant, who is interested in rural practice, right? However, when I mention I am interested in cards surg I hear, "Well hold on buddy, you need to be realistic about your goals here."
I am keeping an open mind, but I know I love watching surgeries, especially treating the heart and lungs.

Sure, doing cardiothoracic research or volunteering with post-surgical patients might be a good way to express interest. You're right though, in that some people will view it as naive and presumptuous for you to be completely set on a particular specialty prior to extensive exposure to other fields. Whether or not they are correct is something that I will not speak to, since I would have to go through rotations before fully understanding their perspective, but it is something to be mindful of. For what it's worth, I'm open-minded but fairly certain I'll end up in oncology, though I didn't really talk about this much unless it was directly asked of me (many interviewers truly wanted to know if I had a specialty interest in mind). I suppose my interest in oncology is clear from many of my activities and stories in my essays, but I didn't dwell on it for exactly the reasons I mentioned earlier. This might have been irrational of me, but all I can really speak to is my own experience.

Good luck! Let me know if you have other questions and I'm happy to help as best I can

I completely agree here. My own application is even less "focused on a single narrative" than yours, and that might be what's holding me back (I have no acceptances yet and didn't have nearly as many interviews as you did). However, I do love great stories, and I think the best applicants have awesome stories.

Right -- my stats are good but not stellar, which leads me to believe that my interviews and acceptances hinge on other parts of my application like my activities and consistent narratives. Maybe not, but that's the best guess I have so far!

(I'm still really really really hoping UNC pulls through for you ASAP though, Ace!)

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Good luck! Let me know if you have other questions and I'm happy to help as best I can

Thanks chief.

 

[Pusheen]

Honestly, my opinion is that the best ECs tell a story. Interested in primary care? It looks good to have a lot of community service in free clinics, time spent shadowing family practitioners, etc. Have personal experience with a particular illness? Might want to engage in lots of research and outreach and advocacy for groups centered around the cause. Want to go into academic medicine? Probably not a bad idea to spend significant time engaged in research and teaching. Certain ECs look good no matter what -- clinical volunteering, leadership, scribe/MA/EMT, for example -- since they relate to being a physician/medical practitioner without necessarily contributing to an overarching story or motivation. But overall, I am most impressed with applications who present a clear narrative of the applicant and their passions, goals, and beliefs. That's not to say that unfocused apps get tossed in the garbage, by any means. There are certainly benefits to exploration and a wide variety of interests. I just personally really admire clear directionality with every or almost every activity and essay contributing to an overlying message.

My own application did not successfully tell a single story, though. Instead it is centered around three themes: communication, humanism, and a goal to become an academic physician. I wish that I could have made my activities and everything a bit more streamlined instead of juggling multiple narratives and ideas, but I think my passion for all three of these ideas have come across. Most of my interviewers have acknowledged the clear presence of these stories in my application and interview answers, and I think that's been helpful in my success so far this cycle -- the admissions committees have a really good idea of who I am and what kind of physician I want to be (both in terms of priorities and practice environment), so they are better able to decide whether or not I'd truly fit in/succeed at their institution.

I may be totally off-base, but this has been my observation/experience during this cycle. Best of luck in your own application!

This is really interesting. Thanks for your input!

 

[allantois]

Honestly, my opinion is that the best ECs tell a story. Interested in primary care? It looks good to have a lot of community service in free clinics, time spent shadowing family practitioners, etc. Have personal experience with a particular illness? Might want to engage in lots of research and outreach and advocacy for groups centered around the cause. Want to go into academic medicine? Probably not a bad idea to spend significant time engaged in research and teaching. Certain ECs look good no matter what -- clinical volunteering, leadership, scribe/MA/EMT, for example -- since they relate to being a physician/medical practitioner without necessarily contributing to an overarching story or motivation. But overall, I am most impressed with applications who present a clear narrative of the applicant and their passions, goals, and beliefs. That's not to say that unfocused apps get tossed in the garbage, by any means. There are certainly benefits to exploration and a wide variety of interests. I just personally really admire clear directionality with every or almost every activity and essay contributing to an overlying message.

My own application did not successfully tell a single story, though. Instead it is centered around three themes: communication, humanism, and a goal to become an academic physician. I wish that I could have made my activities and everything a bit more streamlined instead of juggling multiple narratives and ideas, but I think my passion for all three of these ideas have come across. Most of my interviewers have acknowledged the clear presence of these stories in my application and interview answers, and I think that's been helpful in my success so far this cycle -- the admissions committees have a really good idea of who I am and what kind of physician I want to be (both in terms of priorities and practice environment), so they are better able to decide whether or not I'd truly fit in/succeed at their institution.

I may be totally off-base, but this has been my observation/experience during this cycle. Best of luck in your own application!

The amount of ECs you accomplished in 3 years is truly astonishing

 

[Goro]

You need to do both. It's crucial to display your altruism and show us that you know what you're getting into, and that you really do want to be around sick people for the next 30-40 years.

So in general , it is better to volunteer or work for a meaningful organization (homeless clinic, tutoring underserved kids, ect) than to work the typical pre-med jobs of scribe, EMT, and such? That seems to be the vibe I've gotten here.

Is it ok to sacrifice some clinical exposure time in order to show your altruism and that you care about your community, and if so how much? I'm trying to figure out my time commitments to various organizations

This may be an overly technical question but if you could give a proportion in % of how much time should be spent in research/non clinical work/clinical work, what would your numbers be?

And yeah, I know we should all do what we like doing and what we have a passion for..my question is about how much time should one reasonably commit to these passions while in undergrad.[/QUOTE]

 

[sunflower18]

The amount of ECs you accomplished in 3 years is truly astonishing

Oh wow, thank you! I really appreciate that! I've definitely been busy but it's been really rewarding and fun too.

 

[Mad Jack]

You need to do both. It's crucial to display your altruism and show us that you know what you're getting into, and that you really do want to be around sick people for the next 30-40 years.

So in general , it is better to volunteer or work for a meaningful organization (homeless clinic, tutoring underserved kids, ect) than to work the typical pre-med jobs of scribe, EMT, and such? That seems to be the vibe I've gotten here.

Is it ok to sacrifice some clinical exposure time in order to show your altruism and that you care about your community, and if so how much? I'm trying to figure out my time commitments to various organizations

This may be an overly technical question but if you could give a proportion in % of how much time should be spent in research/non clinical work/clinical work, what would your numbers be?

And yeah, I know we should all do what we like doing and what we have a passion for..my question is about how much time should one reasonably commit to these passions while in undergrad.

[/QUOTE]
This is exactly why my made up magic formula requires extra ECs in various areas to maximize competitiveness.

 

[ciruji]

"Leadership"? Don't waste your time op unless the leadership role does't take a huge amount of time in your life oryou really want to take it.

Not everyone has to be this cliche "leader", just give your best in every area (grades, mcat score, volunteer, etc.) and let the rest flow.

 

[Toffey]

"Leadership"? Don't waste your time op unless the leadership role does't take a huge amount of time in your life oryou really want to take it.

Not everyone has to be this cliche "leader", just give your best in every area (grades, mcat score, volunteer, etc.) and let the rest flow.

Glad you think so. I didn't really see how ordering pizza or putting up posters for the pre-med club at my school was going to make me a better person. It just seemed like a lot of time and energy -_-

 

[mimelim]

"Leadership"? Don't waste your time op unless the leadership role does't take a huge amount of time in your life oryou really want to take it.

Not everyone has to be this cliche "leader", just give your best in every area (grades, mcat score, volunteer, etc.) and let the rest flow.

Glad you think so. I didn't really see how ordering pizza or putting up posters for the pre-med club at my school was going to make me a better person. It just seemed like a lot of time and energy -_-

Nobody considers being a pre-med club officer a real leadership position. We aren't stupid. We know what most activities that pre-meds do entail. Being a leader is... *drum roll* about leading. Being a secretary for a club is not being a leader.

 

[NickNaylor]

"Leadership"? Don't waste your time op unless the leadership role does't take a huge amount of time in your life oryou really want to take it.

Not everyone has to be this cliche "leader", just give your best in every area (grades, mcat score, volunteer, etc.) and let the rest flow.

There's something to be said about doing things for personal development or having the experience. Getting into medical school should not be the ends by which you decide what things to do.

 

[outdoorsmd]

100% agree@nicknaylor