Best for IBD?

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rd31

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Hey guys, I'm noticing programs are far more similar than different now that I've interviewed. I need some help with ranking these four programs in particular. Location not too important. What would be the best order for someone seeking an academic career and clinical research in IBD?

Brigham
MGH
Penn
Mt. Sinai
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rd31 said:
Hey guys, I'm noticing programs are far more similar than different now that I've interviewed. I need some help with ranking these four programs in particular. Location not too important. What would be the best order for someone seeking an academic career and clinical research in IBD?

Brigham
MGH
Penn
Mt. Sinai
Click to expand...

UCLA is easily among the best for IBD as well.
 
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rd31 said:
Thanks but I’m just asking about these 4 programs.
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Apparently i can't read. Honestly all four are fantastic places, but MGH/brigham IBD research is very basic science oriented (both division chiefs are on top of the pyramid of basic science IBD). Penn and Mt Sinai both are more well balanced, and I believe Penn easily has the most active clinical research.
 
rd31 said:
Hey guys, I'm noticing programs are far more similar than different now that I've interviewed. I need some help with ranking these four programs in particular. Location not too important. What would be the best order for someone seeking an academic career and clinical research in IBD?

Brigham
MGH
Penn
Mt. Sinai
Click to expand...

Same tier, no reasonable argument for one being significantly better than the other. Go where you/your family want to live.

If you are not sure you want to be in academia, MGH probably has a little weaker clinical training.
 
Gastrapathy said:
All 4th years are scams but you are going to have trouble getting a good academic job now with it.
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hmm I think if you come from a program with a reasonable IBD reputation I dont think thats true. Someone who trains at one of those programs listed and does research/spends time with the IBD people will have no problem landing an academic IBD job. I wouldnt waste the year of attending salary.
 
I have a pretty good window into the hiring scene. I don't know any young faculty at a well known academic IBD center who weren't roped into a 4th year. I'm happy to be wrong but where are they?
 
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I think I have it narrowed to Brigham vs Sinai. Goal again is academic IBD. Brigham offers a free MPH (big help in prep for a clinical research career), while Sinai seems to be more of a powerhouse for IBD. Which would you choose? I feel like I could flip a coin here. Oh and location is not a factor at all between NY and Boston.
 
And they don't expect you to pay off an extra year there after your 3 years?

Then it doesn't matter.

I like Marla Dubinsky personally but she certainly advocates a "academic" ie expensive and impractical style of IBD care that is hard to apply to the real world. That said, I'd go to the established center.
 
rd31 said:
I think I have it narrowed to Brigham vs Sinai. Goal again is academic IBD. Brigham offers a free MPH (big help in prep for a clinical research career), while Sinai seems to be more of a powerhouse for IBD. Which would you choose? I feel like I could flip a coin here. Oh and location is not a factor at all between NY and Boston.
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Yup. Personally I would hate living in NYC, but thats a very personal preference.

Sounds like you are a true believer academic. Hope you do well!
 
I am a GI fellow in Boston well immersed in the IBD world and can tell you that Brigham and MGH do NOT have reputable GI programs. For IBD they are both OK. MGH is heavy basic science, and Brigham is just starting to make a name for themselves with respect to IBD. As far as PENN and Sinai I would say they are equal. Gary Lichtenstein at PENN is an IBD GURU as is Bruce Sands at MGH. Gary is way more personable, however. I think you can just choose based on the rest of the program and the city NYC vs PHILLY.
 
jsr52 said:
I am a GI fellow in Boston well immersed in the IBD world and can tell you that Brigham and MGH do NOT have reputable GI programs. For IBD they are both OK. MGH is heavy basic science, and Brigham is just starting to make a name for themselves with respect to IBD. As far as PENN and Sinai I would say they are equal. Gary Lichtenstein at PENN is an IBD GURU as is Bruce Sands at MGH. Gary is way more personable, however. I think you can just choose based on the rest of the program and the city NYC vs PHILLY.
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Are you a fellow at one of those programs? I don't expect you to answer that, but if you go to another Boston program, I'd suspect you have an automatic bias against them. I've interacted/interviewed with both Bruce Sands and Gary Lichtenstein. They would disagree with that assertion.

I've actually heard a lot of criticisms regarding Sinai for those interested in academic medicine. They have a large private/volunteer faculty and don't have the funding and research training resources of some of the other big university programs (e.g. Harvard, Penn). They do have some amazing GI faculty of course, perhaps the strongest in the country. But as an institution, the resources appear to be lacking.
 
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To say they are not "reputable" is a joke. Certainly weaker on the clinical side from what I have heard, as that is not their mission.
 
I've also been thinking about doing a fourth year ibd. I come from a smaller university program with one of these "IBD guru" and we have a fair amount of exposure to ibd patients.

The idea of being an IBD person is very appealing to me because of the interesting disease nature but I have a few questions:

1.) I'm not an academic person at all. I do not enjoy participating in or orchestrating clinical research. Whatsoever.

2.) I value lifestyle over $$$ on any day but do IBD specialists who go to private gi groups get lower salaries?

3.) Is there a disadvantage to being the "ibd guy" in a private gi group?

4.) Is a 4th year worth it if you're not planning on being involved in academia? Does it make you more desirable when applying for jobs?

5.) My wife and I really wouldn't mind living in NYC for a year, how is the mt sinai program and is it competitive/impossible to get for someone not from a "big name" gi fellowship?

Thanks
 
1. Complete waste of time and money to do an IBD 4th year if you are going into practice. Even if staying in academics it is almost always a waste of time.

2. Salary is hugely dependent on your groups model which varies substantially group to group.

3. Even if you are your practices "IBD guy," the majority of your practice is still going to be general GI/hepatology. If your partners all hate IBD and want to shunt everything to you you might be able to build it over over a few years, but still then you'll be seeing IBS.

4. No

5. IBD fellowships often don't fill.

In summary, you seem like a bad fit for an IBD fourth year. Go get a job and get on with your life. Tell the places you interview at that you have a special interest in IBD.
 
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gutonc said:
An extra year of fellow salary for no downstream benefit sounds fun?
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It's actually even worse than that. Since it is not a real ACGME approved fellowship, a lot of programs actually consider you faculty but you still get paid like a fellow. So you often have to scope a day a week to generate RVUs to cover your salary.
 
Thebestofus said:
Yikes..it sounded kinda fun though. Oh well.
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Do whatever you want, Im just saying given your career goals you will just waste a year of your life and the salary delta between your "fellow" salary and whatever real salary you could have been making.
 
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But on the plus side, your partners will have an excuse to dump their highest maintenance IBD patients on a "specialist." So thank you.
 
Thebestofus said:
Yikes..it sounded kinda fun though. Oh well.
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How much fun can you have for a quarter million bucks after taxes? I'd rather drive a Tesla Roadster off a cliff than do a PGY7 year for fun.

Hard IBD is easy to find. We suck at Crohns. If you want these patients, just do a CCFA rotation and then you have all you need to market that.
 
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