Best Prelim Programs

[Cliff Huxtable]

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Hi, what are some of the better prelim med programs and why?

Cush prelims?

Any unique perks?

Nice location?

etc.


There is not too much info on the forums (I searched).

 

[Law2Doc]

Hi, what are some of the better prelim med programs and why?

Cush prelims?

Any unique perks?

Nice location?

etc.


There is not too much info on the forums (I searched).

Prelims don't have national reputations, so it's unlikely that anyone can give you a global "best". (And few are "cush", that term is pretty much reserved for transitional programs). Try indicating your target city and maybe someone can tell you the pluses and minuses of those in that locale.

 

[nope80]

how about PA, NJ, New York?

 

[thesauce]

I've heard the NJMS and Morristown prelims are relatively light.

 

[Law2Doc]

how about PA, NJ, New York?

I suggested listing a city, not a tri-state area. Honestly most of us could tell you the reputations of the ones within the city/community we live, but the reputations of prelim programs don't expand to the statewide level -- there are so many of them in some regions.

 

[nope80]

okay, well how about north jersey?

 

[shift_roro]

okay, well how about north jersey?

Atlantic Health (Morristown/Overlook) TY. Definitely the cushiest in North Jersey.

Morristown Memorial prelim is probably second.

I have heard from several people that NJMS's prelim is NOT cush by any means.

 

[N-Surge]

Hi, what are some of the better prelim med programs and why?

Cush prelims?

Any unique perks?

Nice location?

etc.


There is not too much info on the forums (I searched).

What field?

 

[thesauce]

Atlantic Health (Morristown/Overlook) TY. Definitely the cushiest in North Jersey.

Morristown Memorial prelim is probably second.

I have heard from several people that NJMS's prelim is NOT cush by any means.

I've heard the opposite about NJMS's medicine prelim. You get 3.5 months of elective and a full month of vacation. The floors really aren't that bad as you cap at 7 new patients per call. A team consists of AT LEAST 3 residents + 1 intern + 3-4 medical students. Sounds pretty good for a prelim medicine year!

 

[DeigoT]

Lankenau (right outside of Philly) has 5 months of electives. I don't know how cush the inpatient rotations are though.

 

[DeigoT]

Also the residents I met at PA hospital (not too far from Jersey) all seemed pretty happy.

 

[MSKalltheway]

I have heard from several people that NJMS's prelim is NOT cush by any means.

I have talked to people who have done the NJMS prelim, as well as the students at NJMS. No one made it sound cush, and a few actually suggested NOT doing a prelim there.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Huntington Memorial Prelim Medicine in Pasadena, CA.

Residents have a concierge service that will take care of their dry cleaning and other errands. Personal call rooms (ie. no one else is sleeping there when you're not on call). Sushi bar. Super cushy schedule. Pac-man machine.

If only I was able to match there...

 

[Cliff Huxtable]

Huntington Memorial Prelim Medicine in Pasadena, CA.

Residents have a concierge service that will take care of their dry cleaning and other errands. Personal call rooms (ie. no one else is sleeping there when you're not on call). Sushi bar. Super cushy schedule. Pac-man machine.

If only I was able to match there...

NICE! This is exactly the kind of insider info I created this thread for.

 

[lord_jeebus]

NICE! This is exactly the kind of insider info I created this thread for.

I should add that there are (or used to be) 2 prelim spots, and when I applied they were filled by people who had rotated there.

 

[Amxcvbcv]

Are you limiting this to just preliminary medicine?

I highly recommend Mercy's TY program in Pittsburgh.

I just finished my last day, and can't be thankful enough that I matched there.

 

[gutonc]

Are you limiting this to just preliminary medicine?

I can't recommend Mercy's TY program in Pittsburgh.

I just finished my last day, and can't be thankful enough that I matched there.

I think you're either missing a word here or added in too many letters. As it's written, you hated the place but are super psyched to have matched there.

 

[Amxcvbcv]

I think you're either missing a word here or added in too many letters. As it's written, you hated the place but are super psyched to have matched there.

Yeah, I can't recommend it enough.

My wife was bugging me to finish what I was doing, so we could go out to eat and celebrate. I skipped the proofreading step.

 

[Cliff Huxtable]

Any places offer ways to moonlight or earn extra money during the first year?

 

[gutonc]

Any places offer ways to moonlight or earn extra money during the first year?

Moonlighting as an intern is basically a non-starter just because of the licensing issue, regardless of what type of program you're in. Some places offer you the chance to do sick call coverage during an elective or ambulatory month.

 

[krust3]

three midwest programs....


west suburban med ctr- oak park (chicago). prelim medicine.
5 months of electives, 1 vs 2 ICU months depending on advanced specialty requirements. wards call q5, icu q4. very chill atmosphere. outdoor roofdeck attached to call resident lounge/call rooms with amazing views and sundeck chairs. nice benefits package (dental, opto, medical, etc.)

oakwood hospital- dearborn (detroit). TY.
very chill, would've been equally happy here.

Jewish hospital- kenwood (cincinnati). prelim medicine.
very chill, would've also been happy here. free food all day every day, seriously whatever you want take it to go even. residents abuse it and nobody cares. on weekends they give passes to the gourmet coffee shop to accomodate cafeteria hours. great resident lounge with lazy boy recliners and a Wii and stocked daily with food and drinks.

 

[Amxcvbcv]

I realize on an intellectual level that there are some cush prelim medicine programs out there, but my mind seizes up when I try to equate anything with Q4/5 call with being called "cush".

Having night float will spoil you.

 

[krust3]

I realize on an intellectual level that there are some cush prelim medicine programs out there, but seizes up when I try to equate anything with Q4/5 call with being called "cush".

Having night float will spoil you.

Ha! i see your point. BUT i interviewed at some programs where wards call was q4 and ICU was q3.

the real gem with these programs is that you're out before 3 most days, have great ancillary services (less scut), and you don't get blasted on call nights because the docs really do reserve teaching cases for residents rather than abusing them. the interns at these programs rarely cap on call👍

 

[Nellyakgo]

Are there any State or Federal regulations on max. how many hours any work shift can be (e.g. the length) of night float) or the total number of work hours per week which would affect the Q3/4/5 thing?

 

[smq123]

Are there any State or Federal regulations on max. how many hours any work shift can be (e.g. the length) of night float) or the total number of work hours per week which would affect the Q3/4/5 thing?

😱

It was hard for me to believe that you were serious when you asked this question. The work hour rules is SO pervasive in residency culture, and such a huge topic for discussion, that I couldn't believe that you really had no idea. Even first year medical students know about the work hour rules! But, reading your old posts, I realized that you are an FMG, so that might explain why you honestly didn't know.

Yes, there are rules on how many hours per week you can work. They're not regulated by the state or federal government, but the American Council on Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) "regulates" them. It is well known that many programs lie and say that they are following the rules when they are not.

Full list of work hour rules is here: http://www.acgme.org/acwebsite/dutyhours/dh_lang703.pdf

As a side note, though, this post shows VERY clearly that you do not understand the most basic things about how residency in this country is regulated, which indicates that you probably don't know much about how medicine in this country is practiced. If you plan on applying for a residency in the US, I would strongly urge you to get as much US clinical experience as you can.

 

[Nellyakgo]

Thank you.
You're right. My understanding on how residency is regulated in the US is very limited to say the least, but already much better than a few months ago, thanks to this forum.

 

[Nellyakgo]

I love this language: Faculty and residents must be educated to recognize the signs of fatigue and sleep deprivation and must adopt and apply policies to prevent and counteract its potential negative effects on patient care and learning. - lol! I presume it remains as just "language".

But these are outrageous: 24hrs + 6hrs allowed.
80 hours per week + 10% - 88hrs /week allowed.
OMG, any other industry wouldn't allow it, how come the health care industry does.

Sorry guys, I realize this is off topic, feel free to ignore. I just couldn't resist commenting. Vermeer, thanks again for the link.

 

[Cliff Huxtable]

bump

 

[DukeNukem]

Looking for more cush medicine (not TY) program suggestions. I have no location preference.

 

[nope80]

How about in NYC?

 

[Cliff Huxtable]

How many prelim / TY / or Prelim + TY do you need to rank to "guarantee" you will match somewhere and not need to scramble?

 

[nope80]

Bump

 

[Doctor Bob]

The best prelim program in the world is at OSF St. Francis/University of Illinois at Peoria.

To explain why that program is the best is to do it an injustice by attempting to put into mere words the unbridled awesomeness of the program and the town.

 

[2012mdc]

Any word on the best prelim programs in Cali and Florida?

Also any info on Univ of Nevada Las Vegas program? It would be pointless to be in Vegas if you were stuck in the hospital all of the time

 

[WorkaholicsAnon]

I love this language: Faculty and residents must be educated to recognize the signs of fatigue and sleep deprivation and must adopt and apply policies to prevent and counteract its potential negative effects on patient care and learning. - lol! I presume it remains as just "language".

But these are outrageous: 24hrs + 6hrs allowed.
80 hours per week + 10% - 88hrs /week allowed.
OMG, any other industry wouldn't allow it, how come the health care industry does.

Sorry guys, I realize this is off topic, feel free to ignore. I just couldn't resist commenting. Vermeer, thanks again for the link.

Definitely with you there. 😎

And lol at "recognizing signs of fatigue and sleep deprivation and doing somethign about it". YEAH RIGHT...

 

[nope80]

bump

 

[Nooblet]

bump

California programs anyone? Prelim/TY?

 

[cowme]

I gotta be honest.. The new work hour restrictions really closed the gap between the "rough" prelims and "Cush" transitionals. I go to what used to be a "cushy" TY, but the new restrictions make pretty much all of us go in 6 days a week throughout the year.

Meanwhile, my friends at rough prelims are also doing 6 days a week, with the only main difference being that they have less elective months.

 

[Neuronix]

Meanwhile, my friends at rough prelims are also doing 6 days a week, with the only main difference being that they have less elective months.

There's something to be said for flexibility of rotation options, options for away electives, benefits (food, subsidized housing), salary, quality of support staff, and patient census while on floors.

Where I did my sub-I the interns always had 8-10 patients each. Where I'm at now they almost never even hit 6. Unless you're on call, you're usually heading home anywhere from 1PM to 5PM at the absolute latest. I know some TY programs were very restrictive as to number of "cush" elective months, though here all the electives are generally ~40 hours a week M-F no call affairs.

 

[mb11040]

Which program is that?

There's something to be said for flexibility of rotation options, options for away electives, benefits (food, subsidized housing), salary, quality of support staff, and patient census while on floors.

Where I did my sub-I the interns always had 8-10 patients each. Where I'm at now they almost never even hit 6. Unless you're on call, you're usually heading home anywhere from 1PM to 5PM at the absolute latest. I know some TY programs were very restrictive as to number of "cush" elective months, though here all the electives are generally ~40 hours a week M-F no call affairs.

 

[Neuronix]

Which program is that?

I'm not willing to say for personal identity reasons, but the word is out about that program being quite cush on the usual circulating lists.

 

[LeLu]

Prelims in Philly?

 

[nothingman]

This has been addressed recently in a few other threads (so the search function may help) but in brief:

If you want to stay in Philly proper or within a 30 minute drive, Crozer Chester TY and Einstein TY (5 electives, hard GMF months but only two of them, and one unit month) in North Philly are considered the most desirable. Other non-malignant but more intense options in the city or close by are the Einstein Med Prelim (3 months GMF and two unit months IIRC), Lankenau Hospital Med Prelim, and Pennsylvania Hospital Med Prelim (in the UPenn system but separate from HUP).

The reputedly cushiest programs in the area, more so than the city programs, are about 1-2 hours outside the city and include Reading Hospital TY and Lehigh Valley TY.

PM me for specifics if you'd like more info.

 

[Neuronix]

Prelims in Philly?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=846372

 

[grayscaleart]

Any info on St. Mary's in SF? 3 mos of ICU bad enough to avoid? otherwise, info on UPMC Mercy, Texas Health Presbyterian, Scripps? It's hard to get a feel during the interview, they all seem nice, but who knows.

 

[ar2388]

any info about prelim medicine or surgery programs in manhattan, NY?

 

[Dr. USMLE]

Any info on St. Mary's in SF? 3 mos of ICU bad enough to avoid? otherwise, info on UPMC Mercy, Texas Health Presbyterian, Scripps? It's hard to get a feel during the interview, they all seem nice, but who knows.

Never heard of St. Mary's.
I would rank the rest as follows:
1. Scripps (easily the best)
2. Texas Health
3. UPMC Mercy (heard a lot of bad reviews on this one by people I trust)

 

[Skinceutical]

In terms of cushiness, I don't think any program out there can match Akron General's TY. I think they require a whopping 2 inpatient months, and you never set foot in the ICU.

I'd take a bullet to the head before I moved to Akron, OH...but if location is irrelevant to you and you're incredibly lazy, I don't think you can beat that program.

 

[Nellyakgo]

Bullet to the head? What's up with Akron then?

 

[Neuronix]

Bullet to the head? What's up with Akron then?

I interviewed there and I thought it was the cushiest place I interviewed at. It's just not a very happening town, though there are any of the usual chains within driving distance and there is a fairly sizable college in town. There are some shady parts, but nothing terrible. You're looking at a car commute to work almost no matter what. Winters are cold and snowy. So I think bullet to the head is a bit extreme.

I do think "incredibly lazy" is a bit ridiculous as well. I mean if you are a good enough medical student to get into a cush TY, you by default are not lazy. Even cush TYs still require you to work, typically at least full-time by any other standard.