Beth Israel Deaconness vs University Of Pennsylvania???

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medInUSA

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BI deaconnes (of harvard) vs University of Pennsylvania?

which on is stronger in terms of reputation, clinical training?

which one has better work environment, hours, quality of life, location?

which would you choose??

thank you

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Hello,

They are both super top notch programs. It will be very difficult to decide for one of them. I don't know the intimate details of each one, but the people I have seen graduate from those places were outstanding anesthesiologists in every sense of the word.

It is nice to have that kind of dilemma.

Tell us how you decided, after you do.
 
I would say based on the academics i've talked to, UPenn would be much more academic than BID. That being said I think the program at BID is very strong and probably less harsh than that of UPenn.

So rep goes to UPenn
Clinical training is a wash
Better hours is BID
Quality of life is hard. Philly is cheaper than Boston but Boston is a better city imo.



BI deaconnes (of harvard) vs University of Pennsylvania?

which on is stronger in terms of reputation, clinical training?

which one has better work environment, hours, quality of life, location?

which would you choose??

thank you
 
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Hi medInUSA,

I'm currently a resident at BIDMC and would like to give some insight into our program.

In terms of reputation, I think both are very strong. Many people get the impression that BID is the little sibling to MGH and Brigham, but it has a very strong reputation both within Boston and nationally (I'm currently applying for fellowship and have been getting tremendous responses thus far). Dr. Brett Simon, our new Chair, is great and really is focusing on faculty development to improve teaching (which is pretty good already). He is also a big advocate for research and is very supportive of any of these endeavors. Penn is great, and Dr. Lee Fleischer has his hand in MANY things, so they do have an excellent academic tradition as well.

Clinically, BID is EXCELLENT. I think we get top-notch clinical and academic training and are very well-prepared to handle most difficult clinical situations. We have airway workshops, a top-of-the-line simulation center, frequent didactics, journal clubs, great regional experience, our TEE experience is top-notch, our ICUs utilize bedside TTE (vs PA catheters) which is fantastic and is one of the few centers in the country that is doing this, we have lots of faculty who are involved in research and are very happy to have residents participate, we all have to complete senior projects, and have recently implemented a biannual Mock Orals to ensure adequate preparation for the real Oral Boards. In other words, we're really strong academically. BUT, we've also have a great deal of "street smarts" which is super helpful when s&*t hits the fan (which in anesthesia, you can almost guarantee it will!).

We've got an overall great work environment, where we're pretty much on a first-name basis with all of our attendings (most insist you don't call them "doctor"). It's pretty laid-back, we joke around a lot, and overall, it's a pleasant place to work. We're a mid-size program (about 18 residents per year), which makes it very easy to get to know everyone, and all of the residents tend to help one another out (we compete with ourselves, not with our co-residents). We had a number of personal situations arise this year, and all of the residents jumped to help out their peers - it was pretty amazing. Our hours are pretty darn good (you take more call as a CA-1, but the call load gets much less as you become senior; most CA-1s work 60-65 hours a week, but by your CA-3 year, you'll average around 50-55 hours a week) and have a significant amount of didactics. I would say that our QOL is very high, and overall, I can't say I have any major complaints of our program.

In regards to location, this is really up to you. How important is the city? If it's very important, then you have your answer in regards to which you should choose over the other. If it's not as important, then you need to ultimately decide where you think you would be the "best fit". This is super-important: don't pick a place because somebody tells you it's better than the other. Pick it because you would be happy working there for 3 years of your life. I know the interview is only one day, but consider the dinner the night before, the residents you met, the attendings you met, the overall feel of your interview day, and THEN make your decision based on your gut and where you think you would fit in.

Both places are fantastic - you'll get great training at each. You can't go wrong. The only way you could go wrong is if you don't pick the place YOU think you would ultimately be happy.

I hope this helps make your decision easier.
 
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BI deaconnes (of harvard) vs University of Pennsylvania?

which on is stronger in terms of reputation, clinical training?

which one has better work environment, hours, quality of life, location?

which would you choose??

thank you

I think Penn is a stronger program in terms of the range of cases. Boston has many academic hospitals and some unusual types of cases are split up amongst them and spread very thinly. A lot of those cases go to MGH and BWH. BIDMC is kind of left out of the loop, and I've heard some people say privately that although the reputation is strong at BIDMC, the breadth of cases at Boston Medical Center (Boston University) is comparable or perhaps even better.

Regardless of this, you will get an adequate education to become a practicing anesthesiologist at both places.
 
...Clinically, BID is EXCELLENT. I think we get top-notch clinical and academic training and are very well-prepared to handle most difficult clinical situations...

...We've got an overall great work environment...
Yes, this is what I had heard, too, but it was so long ago, that I didn't know whether it still held true.

When I rotated through Boston Children's in 1977, the Beth Israel residents were absolutely the best and the happiest of all, including other Harvard programs and other local and out of town and out of state programs. All fellowship programs across the U. S. and Canada were more than happy to get one of those Beth Israel residents apply to them.
 
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probably too late since i'm assuming this was for rank lists and such, but i'll give some insight into penn.

clinical training is outstanding. all of our patients are ridiculously sick, so you get incredibly comfortable taking care of icu players, but even on standard cases, the patients have multiple comorbidities.

one of the best aspects of penn is that you are constantly pushed, but i always find i have amazing support and backup. i did my first live tx in oct of ca-1 year, a month of cardiac in december where i did 25+ CPB cases, a few lung tx and a heart tx. i really like this atmosphere where you are constantly challenged and forced to develop confidence in your skills and abilities.

i really enjoy the other residents i work with. we are a little bigger than BID, with 24 per year. hours are comparable, although i don't think we work any less during 2/3 years.


aaa is exactly right. don't go someplace because someone somwhere told you its "better", you have to spend the time to find the place that truly is right for you. the place (and i do mean both the hospital and city) you will be most happy. both programs you are talking about are stellar. hope it works out for you. i can't emphasize enough how much of residency is what you make of it.
 
i did my first live tx in oct of ca-1 year, a month of cardiac in december where i did 25+ CPB cases, a few lung tx and a heart tx.

that is amazing...all that in your first year. sounds like excellent cases for a CA1.
 
they are excellent and great cases to do in your first six months BUT only if you have incredible support. the attendings let you make your own decisions and figure out problems on your own, but they will always back you up and be there when you need them. that's one of the main reasons i love this program.
 
Any Harvard Program >>>>> Upenn .
 
point taken neuronix. that kills me. every winter. i just got back from a week out at alta and the skiing was perfect. great snow. a few storms while i was out there. nothing beats skiing out west.
 
oh man, you're killing me. all it took was a few days in the mountains and i started to feel like myself again...
 
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