Better Likelihood of DO obtaining non-primary care residency in military vs. civilian match?

[yyft]

It seems that it is a bit difficult to obtain a residency specialty of your choice if you participate in the military residency match seeing how the residency spots are determined annually based on the need of each military branch. While the answer to my question may be up to some debate, is there any information on where DO students have a better chance of obtaining a surgery or non-primary care specialty in residency if they participate in the military match as opposed to the civilian match?

I ask this because, from what some DO students have told me, it seems that there may still be a slight stigma against DO students who want to pursue non-primary care residencies in the civilian side. However, depending on the need of the military, non-primary care residency spots could become more available or less available in any given year (and I would think the stigma against DO students is less common or absent in the military - but this is solely based on my perception). I have yet to find any information regarding this issue. I would appreciate it if anyone who understands this issue could shed some light on the matter. Thank you!

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[Homunculus]

It seems that it is a bit difficult to obtain a residency specialty of your choice if you participate in the military residency match seeing how the residency spots are determined annually based on the need of each military branch. While the answer to my question may be up to some debate, is there any information on where DO students have a better chance of obtaining a surgery or non-primary care specialty in residency if they participate in the military match as opposed to the civilian match?

I ask this because, from what some DO students have told me, it seems that there may still be a slight stigma against DO students who want to pursue non-primary care residencies in the civilian side. However, depending on the need of the military, non-primary care residency spots could become more available or less available in any given year (and I would think the stigma against DO students is less common or absent in the military - but this is solely based on my perception). I have yet to find any information regarding this issue. I would appreciate it if anyone who understands this issue could shed some light on the matter. Thank you!

you basically answered your own question. it depends on the rise/fall of demand. since the slots are fixed and limited, if you apply for neurosurg in a year only 1 other person is interested your chances are good. if there 10, not so good.

in general yes the military has been more progressive in the DO/MD issue-- it licensed DOs to provide care prior to most states.

i don't have the exact data to parse, this is just my opinion of 13 years being involved in GME as a resident, fellow, and attending.

in general the high functioning DO students tend to be on par with high functioning MD students- so the ceilings are similar. I have found, however, that the floor is dramatically lower for DOs. I imagine the surgical and non primary care residencies have noticed this as well. with that lower scoring cohort then it would make sense that the COMLEX cohort (that include these lower scoring people) may make it a little easier to score in the higher percentiles thus giving some artificial bump to people that otherwise would score middle of the pack were these lower performers removed. I would recommend taking the USMLE if you want to solidify your chances and mitigate any DO bias that may exist.

audition/sub-i rotations are a must-- you need to remove any doubt to your quality as a candidate. even if you don't rotate at each program (if there are more than 2) at least go to 1. the PDs talk and if you impress one enough word will get out. the selection board does not occur in a vacuum.

it also helps if you go to a reputable DO school-- a more established school with a track record and not one of the half dozen or so new schools or satellite campuses (franchises).


-- your friendly neighborhood bone cracking caveman

 

[WernickeDO]

It seems that it is a bit difficult to obtain a residency specialty of your choice if you participate in the military residency match seeing how the residency spots are determined annually based on the need of each military branch. While the answer to my question may be up to some debate, is there any information on where DO students have a better chance of obtaining a surgery or non-primary care specialty in residency if they participate in the military match as opposed to the civilian match?

I ask this because, from what some DO students have told me, it seems that there may still be a slight stigma against DO students who want to pursue non-primary care residencies in the civilian side. However, depending on the need of the military, non-primary care residency spots could become more available or less available in any given year (and I would think the stigma against DO students is less common or absent in the military - but this is solely based on my perception). I have yet to find any information regarding this issue. I would appreciate it if anyone who understands this issue could shed some light on the matter. Thank you!

If your main concern is matching to your preferred residency then avoid the military. Remember that there are osteopathic residencies in surgical and non-primary care specialties. This takes the bias factor right off the table.

 

[psychbender]

If your main concern is matching to your preferred residency then avoid the military. Remember that there are osteopathic residencies in surgical and non-primary care specialties. This takes the bias factor right off the table.

Although, I thought the osteopathic residencies were gone and merged with ACGME residencies (with a single match) now?

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[WernickeDO]

I think that's a work in progress, but I am also thoroughly confused by the whole matter so don't quote me on it.

 

[williameb23]

All AOA programs are required to receive ACGME accreditation by December 31, 2020, so technically the entering class of 2021 will be the first unified match. The "merger" means that all students - MD or DO - will be able to apply to all residencies, including those previously reserved to osteopathic students only.

 

[yyft]

you basically answered your own question. it depends on the rise/fall of demand. since the slots are fixed and limited, if you apply for neurosurg in a year only 1 other person is interested your chances are good. if there 10, not so good.

in general yes the military has been more progressive in the DO/MD issue-- it licensed DOs to provide care prior to most states.

i don't have the exact data to parse, this is just my opinion of 13 years being involved in GME as a resident, fellow, and attending.

in general the high functioning DO students tend to be on par with high functioning MD students- so the ceilings are similar. I have found, however, that the floor is dramatically lower for DOs. I imagine the surgical and non primary care residencies have noticed this as well. with that lower scoring cohort then it would make sense that the COMLEX cohort (that include these lower scoring people) may make it a little easier to score in the higher percentiles thus giving some artificial bump to people that otherwise would score middle of the pack were these lower performers removed. I would recommend taking the USMLE if you want to solidify your chances and mitigate any DO bias that may exist.

audition/sub-i rotations are a must-- you need to remove any doubt to your quality as a candidate. even if you don't rotate at each program (if there are more than 2) at least go to 1. the PDs talk and if you impress one enough word will get out. the selection board does not occur in a vacuum.

it also helps if you go to a reputable DO school-- a more established school with a track record and not one of the half dozen or so new schools or satellite campuses (franchises).


-- your friendly neighborhood bone cracking caveman

Thanks for the response. Right now, I'm not attached to any particular residency, but I am interested in some options (i.e. internal medicine, general surgery, radiology). My main concern is that if I pursue the HPSP and participate in the military match, I am at risk of getting a residency I don't want (i.e. flight surgeon - which is apparently what happens to those who don't match in a military residency). I plan to take the COMLEX and USMLE and do all the right things, it's just the uncertainty of not knowing how many residency spots will be available is concerning.

If your main concern is matching to your preferred residency then avoid the military. Remember that there are osteopathic residencies in surgical and non-primary care specialties. This takes the bias factor right off the table.

That's true too, but at the time that I will be applying for residency, the DO and MD residencies will have merged (at least tentatively) which makes it a little harder to gauge.

 

[Homunculus]

Thanks for the response. Right now, I'm not attached to any particular residency, but I am interested in some options (i.e. internal medicine, general surgery, radiology). My main concern is that if I pursue the HPSP and participate in the military match, I am at risk of getting a residency I don't want (i.e. flight surgeon - which is apparently what happens to those who don't match in a military residency). I plan to take the COMLEX and USMLE and do all the right things, it's just the uncertainty of not knowing how many residency spots will be available is concerning.

i wish we had more positive answers for you but it's the nature of the beast. chances are good you'd get what you want (though maybe not the exact location) but this is never certain in the military. the good news is if you are interested in a primary care subspecialty the first part of that (the primary care part) you can pretty much count on. but then it's back to the whim of the service in regards to fellowships starts. trying to predict this as a medical student 4 years out is impossible. it's hard enough to predict year to year.

--your friendly neighborhood if I could predict the future I'd predict lottery numbers instead caveman