Better to know all the pimp answers or be liked as a person?

[plasticsday1]

I'm currently on my plastics rotation and everyone who I've worked with so far, both residents and attendings, tell me how much they like working with me and what a joy I am to have in the operating room. However, when I get asked pimp questions, I'm typically only able to get 50-60% correct, which is very frustrating because I'm constantly reading and have been since way before the rotation even started. How bad is it that I'm getting so few of the pimp questions correct? Does being well-liked compensate? Or will the student who gets all the questions correct but isn't fun to be around in the OR get ranked higher than me?

I KNOW SOME STUDENTS GET ALL THE QUESTIONS CORRECT AND ARE REALLY AWESOME TO WORK WITH. Please don't lecture me about how those people exist and will be ranked above me regardless of what I do. I just want an honest comparison of the knowledgeable student vs the well-liked student.

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[SpartanWolverine]

1) You're not expected to get all the questions right and 2) being well-liked counts for a lot. If you're constantly reading and improving your knowledge base that will show. Just do your best.

 

[Donald Juan]

Strong knowledge base is only one aspect of a strong student. Being teachable, affable, hard working, interested, professional, etc., are collectively more important. You certainly wouldn't want to get every question wrong, but for the level of pimping I'm used to I think that getting 50-60% of the questions right is pretty decent.

I have known very smart students that are not pleasant to be around, who can't accept any criticism or feedback, or disappear and aren't accountable, or who are just plain annoying. I certainly don't want to create some false dichotomy to say that being smart means you have some downfall, because there are lots of very smart students that are also personable and great to work with, but it certainly isn't everything.

 

[Redpancreas]

What do you think OP?

 

[Oso]

1. You're comparing apples and oranges. They're both important, but being lovable doesn't make up for being a ******* and being a know-it-all doesn't make up for being a dick.

2. 50-60% is pretty decent. If you're constantly reading and improving your knowledge base + showing interest/enthusiasm then it will be apparent.

3. Worry more about learning and just overall doing your best -- and worry less about how you will rank 10 months from now.

4. CHILL.

 

[mehc012]

The senior resident my first week told me not to worry about getting things wrong because "there's always another question." Even if you get it right at first, many people won't stop asking you questions until you miss one, and that's their cue to jump off into teaching. You can't get them all right if the criteria for stopping are "stop when they get one wrong".

 

[Oso]

The senior resident my first week told me not to worry about getting things wrong because "there's always another question." Even if you get it right at first, many people won't stop asking you questions until you miss one, and that's their cue to jump off into teaching. You can't get them all right if the criteria for stopping are "stop when they get one wrong".

It's almost as if, in order to learn, you need to not know everything ...

 

[mehc012]

It's almost as if, in order to learn, you need to not know everything ...

The only learning that happens on MY rotations is everyone learning how SMART I already am!!
#not

 

[libertyyne]

It's almost as if, in order to learn, you need to not know everything ...

Or the fear of being pimped is enough to drive independent outside learning.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I'm currently on my plastics rotation and everyone who I've worked with so far, both residents and attendings, tell me how much they like working with me and what a joy I am to have in the operating room. However, when I get asked pimp questions, I'm typically only able to get 50-60% correct, which is very frustrating because I'm constantly reading and have been since way before the rotation even started. How bad is it that I'm getting so few of the pimp questions correct? Does being well-liked compensate? Or will the student who gets all the questions correct but isn't fun to be around in the OR get ranked higher than me?

I KNOW SOME STUDENTS GET ALL THE QUESTIONS CORRECT AND ARE REALLY AWESOME TO WORK WITH. Please don't lecture me about how those people exist and will be ranked above me regardless of what I do. I just want an honest comparison of the knowledgeable student vs the well-liked student.

If you got all the questions correct, what would be left for them to teach you in residency? Just be present, be nice, and show improvement in your knowledge. Try to anticipate the questions they will ask. This is particularly easy to do in OR cases. If you know what you will be doing the next day, read up on the anatomy. 95% of what you will be asked will come from that.


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[Domperidone]

What everyone else said.
The point is improving.
Such that, they can sense the difference from when you were just starting to mid way and then at the end.
If you continue to work hard, it will show.

Fitting in with a team and enthusiasm are also essential.
If you become their resident they'll have to 'live' with you.

I don't think you can fully split the hair on this re: the knowledgeable but zero personality student versus the likeable but dumb.
On what compensates for the other, it kinda depends on what a particular team is like too. What their particular preference is.

My experience with surgeons and pimping is that they will keep asking you questions until you get it wrong.
When they start asking hard questions it means you're doing well - they've run out of the basic, easy ones.

As posted above, focus on reading up about the anatomy and relevant history on the cases the night before.

 

[Lnsean]

I'm going to disagree a bit. Being liked is definitely a big plus, but it's also very important to answer these questions correctly. You only have a few weeks to make an impression and the initial impression counts the most. If you're getting things wrong off the bat, it doesn't matter how well you do later on... people will have an image that you're incompetent and if you got it right it was because of luck.

Yea, being a dick will turn them off immediately too right off the bat.

 

[Tenk]

One of my favorite attendings in medical school (who is like the grandfather I never had) was very old school and used to have pimp questions you couldn’t guess in a thousand years. I never got a single one of his questions right. Ever. I’m still prolly one of his favorite students of all time. Obviously it depends on the attending but for the most part your relationship with them matters a lot more than answering a few questions correctly.

 

[Oh_Gee]

One of my favorite attendings in medical school (who is like the grandfather I never had) was very old school and used to have pimp questions you couldn’t guess in a thousand years. I never got a single one of his questions right. Ever. I’m still prolly one of his favorite students of all time. Obviously it depends on the attending but for the most part your relationship with them matters a lot more than answering a few questions correctly.

were they esoteric facts or clinically relevant things?

 

[evilbooyaa]

I'm going to disagree a bit. Being liked is definitely a big plus, but it's also very important to answer these questions correctly. You only have a few weeks to make an impression and the initial impression counts the most. If you're getting things wrong off the bat, it doesn't matter how well you do later on... people will have an image that you're incompetent and if you got it right it was because of luck.

Yea, being a dick will turn them off immediately too right off the bat.

Non-dick attendings will slowly graduate their line of questioning up from anatomy stuff (especially in surgery) --> What's that, what's this, what's that, to more complex stuff.

Yes, you should read up on cases the night before and know the basic anatomy (or at least a guess), but you don't have to get even a majority of pimp questions right.

 

[libertyyne]

Non-dick attendings will slowly graduate their line of questioning up from anatomy stuff (especially in surgery) --> What's that, what's this, what's that, to more complex stuff.

Yes, you should read up on cases the night before and know the basic anatomy (or at least a guess), but you don't have to get even a majority of pimp questions right.

how do you know whats on the schedule tomorrow? Do you have to get that from the charge nurse ? DO you have EMR access at home to read up on the patients before hand or will I have to stay at the hospital afterwards to do so?

 

[Tenk]

were they esoteric facts or clinically relevant things?

Both

 

[Oso]

how do you know whats on the schedule tomorrow? Do you have to get that from the charge nurse ? DO you have EMR access at home to read up on the patients before hand or will I have to stay at the hospital afterwards to do so?

You can look at the schedule for the next day and write down the surgeries being done and any relevant history for the patients. Usually takes a few mins. You can read more about the surgery and anatomy at home

 

[SpartanWolverine]

how do you know whats on the schedule tomorrow? Do you have to get that from the charge nurse ? DO you have EMR access at home to read up on the patients before hand or will I have to stay at the hospital afterwards to do so?

That can be one of the tough things -- when you're expected to have read up on a case that you were told to go to only minutes before. Assuming you're assigned to a specific team or surgeon you should be able to get their schedule without too much work, either in the EMR or from a nice nurse. But if you're on a GS team you should broadly know the indications, anatomy, pathophys, procedure, complications, etc. for the basics... lap chole, hernia repair, lap appy, and whatever else they typically lump in.

 

[evilbooyaa]

how do you know whats on the schedule tomorrow? Do you have to get that from the charge nurse ? DO you have EMR access at home to read up on the patients before hand or will I have to stay at the hospital afterwards to do so?

The OR schedule? If you're a med student on surgery, ask your chiefs at the end of the day (or whenever there's downtime in the afternoon) what cases you should do tomorrow. Critical that you know what case you're going to be doing prior to leaving the hospital for the night (if at all possible). You don't need to know 100% of the patient's history, but if you can read up on a H&P at least briefly it'll be beneficial. If you can't do it before you leave the hospital for the day then find time to do it before the ORs start. What you do when you go home is read up on the anatomy, common indications, etc. about that procedure. If you just wikipedia the procedure you're like 50% there, and then branch out to know relevant anatomy stuff and how its oriented with each other.

When I was a med student we had a paper list that would list the cases for the next day, available by around 4pm. If we were given free reign to divvy them up between the med students, we'd do that, but otherwise we'd be assigned to a specific room or a specific attending, depending on which service we were on.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

how do you know whats on the schedule tomorrow? Do you have to get that from the charge nurse ? DO you have EMR access at home to read up on the patients before hand or will I have to stay at the hospital afterwards to do so?

Most EMRs will have a section where you can look at surgery board for the following day. Ask one of the residents to show you how to access it. It won’t help you with overnight cases, though. As a resident, of course, you will have no excuse—-I used to wake up at 4am to check the list and made sure I knew about any overnight cases that got added. If you’re really gunning, you can do that, come in early and read about the add ons. I haven’t had a student do that, ever. Hell, most residents don’t even do it. So you can guess how impressive it would be to an attending, provided you get a chance to show your knowledge.


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[libertyyne]

Most EMRs will have a section where you can look at surgery board for the following day. Ask one of the residents to show you how to access it. It won’t help you with overnight cases, though. As a resident, of course, you will have no excuse—-I used to wake up at 4am to check the list and made sure I knew about any overnight cases that got added. If you’re really gunning, you can do that, come in early and read about the add ons. I haven’t had a student do that, ever. Hell, most residents don’t even do it. So you can guess how impressive it would be to an attending, provided you get a chance to show your knowledge.


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I was just assuming I was going to be showing up to pre-pre-pre paper round on surgery at 330. To check any events during the night and add-ons, and read up on histories. Makes sense. thanks.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I was just assuming I was going to be showing up to pre-pre-pre paper round on surgery at 330. To check any events during the night and add-ons, and read up on histories. Makes sense. thanks.

That is early and exhausting. I’m talking more about reviewing the anatomy for the add on OR cases. I never make my students pre-round. What a ridiculous waste of time. Patients get woken up and are pissed....and fall asleep only for the resident to wake them again. Also what the f is the point of a student rounding alone? They don’t know what they’re supposed to look for.


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[leodinho]

I'm currently on my plastics rotation and everyone who I've worked with so far, both residents and attendings, tell me how much they like working with me and what a joy I am to have in the operating room. However, when I get asked pimp questions, I'm typically only able to get 50-60% correct, which is very frustrating because I'm constantly reading and have been since way before the rotation even started. How bad is it that I'm getting so few of the pimp questions correct? Does being well-liked compensate? Or will the student who gets all the questions correct but isn't fun to be around in the OR get ranked higher than me?

I KNOW SOME STUDENTS GET ALL THE QUESTIONS CORRECT AND ARE REALLY AWESOME TO WORK WITH. Please don't lecture me about how those people exist and will be ranked above me regardless of what I do. I just want an honest comparison of the knowledgeable student vs the well-liked student.

First off, I think 50-60% is pretty huge. Second, from what I can gather most of my attendings don't expect me to know the answer to all their questions. They're simply taking advantage of a teaching moment, and what they want from you is to coherently explain your thinking process as opposed to regurgitating a memorized answer. What's a thousand time more important is that they see your making an effort, and MOST IMPORTANTLY that you're improving. If a similar question comes up a second time you absolutely should know it, because you should have researched it.

I also agree with what's been said, that being liked and knowing the answer to questions are apples and oranges, there's no reason you shouldn't be striving for both. That being said, my personal opinion is that building a strong working relationship is a lot more important. No one wants to be around a genius if they can't stand the person. (and also, I think you're gonna really stress yourself out if you keep thinking in terms of "whos going to get ranked where")

 

[Psai]

That is early and exhausting. I’m talking more about reviewing the anatomy for the add on OR cases. I never make my students pre-round. What a ridiculous waste of time. Patients get woken up and are pissed....and fall asleep only for the resident to wake them again. Also what the f is the point of a student rounding alone? They don’t know what they’re supposed to look for.


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You should tell that to our ortho residents

 

[evilbooyaa]

That is early and exhausting. I’m talking more about reviewing the anatomy for the add on OR cases. I never make my students pre-round. What a ridiculous waste of time. Patients get woken up and are pissed....and fall asleep only for the resident to wake them again. Also what the f is the point of a student rounding alone? They don’t know what they’re supposed to look for.


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Eh, I mean that was my experience as a MS3. Being able to learn the skills to disarm a pissed off patient for waking them up before dawn to do something non-vital seemed like good practice for when I'd be doing the same thing as a resident, but for something more vital.

 

[Anti-PD1]

Personality goes a long way.

Pimping is done to make sure you're learning what you need to know. If you got a plexopathy question wrong, study the brachial plexus like you invented it. Next time you'll appear smart and be recognized as someone who takes ownership of their education.

 

[IMApplicant18]

Strong knowledge base is only one aspect of a strong student. Being teachable, affable, hard working, interested, professional, etc., are collectively more important. You certainly wouldn't want to get every question wrong, but for the level of pimping I'm used to I think that getting 50-60% of the questions right is pretty decent.

I have known very smart students that are not pleasant to be around, who can't accept any criticism or feedback, or disappear and aren't accountable, or who are just plain annoying. I certainly don't want to create some false dichotomy to say that being smart means you have some downfall, because there are lots of very smart students that are also personable and great to work with, but it certainly isn't everything.

How does someone become affable?

 

[Donald Juan]

How does someone become affable?

Try to be friendly, treat people like you would like to be treated, don't be a jerk.

 

[curiousneuro]

+1 on personality, especially as a medical student. But always be learning - if you don't know the pimp question, make sure to read about it.

 

[evilbooyaa]

+1 on personality, especially as a medical student. But always be learning - if you don't know the pimp question, make sure to read about it.

You're allowed to get a pimp question wrong once. When it comes back up the next day, the next case, whatever, you better damn sure have the answer in your mind. Especially if it's something simple like anatomy.

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

Can someone explain to me what it means to get 'pimped', Ive been trying to figure it out. Is it when an attending asks you a question to make you look like a dummy


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[Rekt]

Can someone explain to me what it means to get 'pimped', Ive been trying to figure it out. Is it when an attending asks you a question to make you look like a dummy


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Yes, but the purpose isn't supposed to make you look like a dummy (unless you're on surgery). Most of the time it's a teaching point or to gauge your knowledge of certain topics/treatments/pathophysiology/whatever.

 

[mehc012]

Can someone explain to me what it means to get 'pimped', Ive been trying to figure it out. Is it when an attending asks you a question to make you look like a dummy


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I guess? I've never really experienced anything that felt like the pimping described on here regularly, though.

 

[curiousneuro]

Can someone explain to me what it means to get 'pimped', Ive been trying to figure it out. Is it when an attending asks you a question to make you look like a dummy


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It's a form of questioning about medical knowledge that's very pointed, and you are expected to answer the question on the spot.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

But why the term “pimping?” The connotation is more derogatory.

 

[Chibucks15]

But why the term “pimping?” The connotation is more derogatory.

It's etched in the stone tablets of medical school since all of eternity. Connotation or not

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Really?

It's etched in the stone tablets of medical school since all of eternity. Connotation or not

Really? I had never heard of this until last summer. Like in Neurology could you just be asked to axon or axoff instead of pimped?

 

[curiousneuro]

Really?

Really? I had never heard of this until last summer. Like in Neurology could you just be asked to axon or axoff instead of pimped?

 

[Oso]

But why the term “pimping?” The connotation is more derogatory.

Because it can make you feel like ****

 

[Smurfette]

PIMP= "put in my place". i.e. the questions were meant to point out your knowledge gaps and motivate you to study.

 

[curiousneuro]

PIMP= "put in my place". i.e. the questions were meant to point out your knowledge gaps and motivate you to study.

Hold on...seriously?? Never knew that!

 

[Donald Juan]

Can someone explain to me what it means to get 'pimped', Ive been trying to figure it out. Is it when an attending asks you a question to make you look like a dummy


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A quick literature search would have gotten you the answer. I can tell you will be poor at pimping. I expect you to present this article in a 5 minute presentation prior to rounds tomorrow.

The Art of Pimping

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Because it can make you feel like ****

View attachment 233500

Ohhhh it makes sense now, thank you.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

PIMP= "put in my place". i.e. the questions were meant to point out your knowledge gaps and motivate you to study.

See this is helpful. I never knew.