Better to take Gen Chem 2 prior to O-Chem 1?

[DavetheMD]

I realize that Organic Chem and General Chemistry are completely different. However, for the sake of retaining learned information, is it important to take Chem 2 before taking Organic Chem 1? Thanks.

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[Andersen]

Gen Chem I and Gen Chem II are very different as well. I don't think there is any harm done for taking Ochem I prior to taking Gen Chem II.

 

[Gnomes]

I took organic chemistry before the second semester of general chemistry, and got an A. (Granted, that's about as anecdotal as evidence gets!)

 

[Juicec]

I know a lot of people race to complete their course requirements but the fact of the matter is, is that in Gen Chem II we had a good final 2-3 chapters filled with early o-chem stuff. As the above post mentioned Chem II is significantly different from Chem I to the point where you learn lots of fundamentals that can be applied in o-chem. If you're a strong student you will do fine I'm sure in ochem without having taken gen chem 2, however it WILL make it easier to having taken chem II prior.

My decision would come with is there a reason you're having to do it before? -- You have to take both either way, why not make it easier on yourself?

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

I wish I could've done that.

 

[DavetheMD]

I know a lot of people race to complete their course requirements but the fact of the matter is, is that in Gen Chem II we had a good final 2-3 chapters filled with early o-chem stuff. As the above post mentioned Chem II is significantly different from Chem I to the point where you learn lots of fundamentals that can be applied in o-chem. If you're a strong student you will do fine I'm sure in ochem without having taken gen chem 2, however it WILL make it easier to having taken chem II prior.

My decision would come with is there a reason you're having to do it before? -- You have to take both either way, why not make it easier on yourself?

I find myself more drawn to Organic Chemistry. I've done plenty of ICE tables and acid and base problems on my own, and feel like I should tackle O chem while I feel up to it, seeing as it is considered the biggest speed bump in the pre med curriculum.

Any particular reason to take Gen II first? Is it about learning mechanisms before O chem?

I wish I could've done that.

Any particular reason why?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Gen Chem 2 has very little overlap with organic 1, though kinetics and acid-base can be slightly useful. In fact a lot of schools are now switching their curriculum around so that students take organic chem right after gen chem 1, just because it slightly makes more sense that way.

 

[two thirty]

It's possible, there isn't really too much that you need to know from gen chem to do well in ochem.

I'd go ahead and knock out gen chem though. And I don't think I'd do both classes at the same time.

 

[augeremt]

I just finished Gen Chem and am now doing Ochem I and II over the summer and there's really nothing I learned in Gen Chem II that would've helped me tremendously in Ochem I.

There are some concepts that overlap, but if you don't take Gen Chem II you're not going to be screwed. If your chemistry is super rusty, then you may have to take an extra hour to learn the background, but it's not in-depth and not something you can't learn on your own very, very quickly (hour tops). You don't need to know anything super well as long as you understand trends and stuff like that (no ICE tables, calculations, but trends instead).

Depending on the book used by your professor, you'll cover different things in Gen Chem II than I did, so take a look at the syllabus.

Overall, though, for Ochem I, the useful things from Gen Chem II were the following:

• Equilibrium constants: the general idea of what they are.
• Acids and bases: very very basic stuff such as knowing what a pKa is, strong acids v. weak acids, definitions of Bronsted and Lewis acids/bases and nucleophile v. electrophile (although this is discussed in Ochem I briefly so it should be taught to you), and the fact that the equilibrium favors strong acids over weak ones
• Nomenclature: very little covered in Gen Chem, and we started from scratch in Ochem I so you'll be ok

I think that's about it. Overall, you should be fine, IMO.

At least in our Gen Chem II, we didn't cover mechanisms in the way Ochem I uses them (or maybe I just don't remember doing them), so we really had to learn them all over again, which was fine since it was part of the ochem syllabus anyways.

 

[KLycos]

There are a lot of concepts that are taught in gen chem that are really good to know for ochem. You don't realize it at the time.

 

[augeremt]

There are a lot of concepts that are taught in gen chem that are really good to know for ochem. You don't realize it at the time.

I do agree with that, but only a few of them are taught in Gen Chem II, and for the most part, can be learned on your own with very minimal time commitment.

There's a reason both gen chems are recommended (and oftentimes required) before ochem, but if someone really wants to take Ochem I before Gen Chem II, it's totally doable with a little amount of extra effort.

 

[music2doc]

Gen Chem 2 has very little overlap with organic 1, though kinetics and acid-base can be slightly useful. In fact a lot of schools are now switching their curriculum around so that students take organic chem right after gen chem 1, just because it slightly makes more sense that way.

I'd argue that ochem IS largely acid-base chemistry. Walking into ochem without a solid understanding of acid-base chemistry is placing yourself at a disadvantage for no good reason. I think people tend to have trouble making the connection between gchem and ochem and, as a result, end up memorizing most of ochem instead of realizing that there is almost nothing to be memorized. It's one of the most conceptual courses you'll ever take, but if you lack the strong foundation, you'll end up memorizing constantly and that is, I suspect, why so many students struggle with ochem.

Using NYU's gchem 2 course, here is what I think you'd want for ochem:

intermolecular forces
kinetics & equilibria
acid-base chemistry
thermodynamics
maybe some basics of electrochemistry (but pretty much not that helpful)

what probably does matter from gchem 2:

nuclear chemistry
most of electrochemistry

 

[TheMightySmiter]

In my Gen Chem II class, we learned Molecular Orbital theory which was hugely helpful for Organic I. I don't know how many Gen Chem II classes teach this, though.

 

[music2doc]

In my Gen Chem II class, we learned Molecular Orbital theory which was hugely helpful for Organic I. I don't know how many Gen Chem II classes teach this, though.

We covered MOT briefly in gchem 1 and expanded on it in gchem 2. I don't think I really knew what was going on entirely until ochem 1 lab lecture, though. I think I mostly found it an annoying concept until ochem.

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

Okay, since we are talking about a Chem sequence, and I don't really want to clog SDN with another "need some info" thread, can someone answer this for me.
Okay, I took the Expanded sequence of Gen Chem I (called A and B) because my advisor told me to (and I listened but that was when I was a freshman ) Well, For the A portion of the expanded sequence (3 credits), I received a "C" (Reason: Missed drop date) (One of 2 C's I've received so far) and for the B portion (4 credits W/lab) I received an "A". How will AMCAS take the grades out as? Will they put in it as (6) credits and average out the letter grades? Or will they combine them as a (4) credit course as Gen Chem I and average from there?
Gen Chem 2 I received an "A" for both Lecture and lab, there wasn't any expanded sequence for that course, if that helps?