Beverly Hills anesthesiologist charged with murder after patient dies

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You know it's Fox News when you see comments like "Anything that starts with 'dem' kills" and "Based on this guy's resume, Hillary needs an appointment."
 
Osminog said:
You know it's Fox News when you see comments like "Anything that starts with 'dem' kills" and "Based on this guy's resume, Hillary needs an appointment."
Click to expand...

How about this comment:

"I worked in hospitals for 25 years and the most dangerous person in the surgery suit is the anesthesiologist. Many read the newspaper or a magazine while the patient is on the surgery table. They are "waiting" for the alarms on the anesthesia cart to alarm if something isn't right. They do not actually monitor the settings, they are too busy doing anything other than their job. I would like to see the CEO of every hospital get off their pompous posteriors and take some time to put on a bunny suit and look at what is going on in the OR. This is gross negligence on the highest level and it needs to stopped."

CalHeightsRight@CalHeightsRight
 
Wow this is horrible. I’ve seen many people in our field go down this path over the years- CRNAs, docs, residents.
I heard recently about a CRNA who got high at work, left, and crashed her car into an overpass. When the cops showed up they found vials of drugs taken from her hospital strewn all over the road and in the car.
Makes you wonder how long these people use before they actually get caught.
 
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BLADEMDA said:
How about this comment:

"I worked in hospitals for 25 years and the most dangerous person in the surgery suit is the anesthesiologist. Many read the newspaper or a magazine while the patient is on the surgery table. They are "waiting" for the alarms on the anesthesia cart to alarm if something isn't right. They do not actually monitor the settings, they are too busy doing anything other than their job. I would like to see the CEO of every hospital get off their pompous posteriors and take some time to put on a bunny suit and look at what is going on in the OR. This is gross negligence on the highest level and it needs to stopped."

CalHeightsRight@CalHeightsRight
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"“If you like laws and sausages, you should never watch either one being made.”
-Otto Van Bismarck

Add to the list what care in (some) operating rooms is like.
 
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BLADEMDA said:
How about this comment:
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NOZ75qc.jpg


There's your problem. :)
 
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BLADEMDA said:
How about this comment:

"I worked in hospitals for 25 years and the most dangerous person in the surgery suit is the anesthesiologist. Many read the newspaper or a magazine while the patient is on the surgery table. They are "waiting" for the alarms on the anesthesia cart to alarm if something isn't right. They do not actually monitor the settings, they are too busy doing anything other than their job. I would like to see the CEO of every hospital get off their pompous posteriors and take some time to put on a bunny suit and look at what is going on in the OR. This is gross negligence on the highest level and it needs to stopped."

CalHeightsRight@CalHeightsRight
Click to expand...
Lol. And the death rate from surgery prior to the introduction of main stream modern anesthesia was????

Cave troll
 
BLADEMDA said:
How about this comment:

"I worked in hospitals for 25 years and the most dangerous person in the surgery suit is the anesthesiologist. Many read the newspaper or a magazine while the patient is on the surgery table. They are "waiting" for the alarms on the anesthesia cart to alarm if something isn't right. They do not actually monitor the settings, they are too busy doing anything other than their job. I would like to see the CEO of every hospital get off their pompous posteriors and take some time to put on a bunny suit and look at what is going on in the OR. This is gross negligence on the highest level and it needs to stopped."

CalHeightsRight@CalHeightsRight
Click to expand...

Sounds like someone's mad about not getting into crna school
 
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The Physician Philosopher said:
This is horrifying. Addiction and substance abuse issues are real in anesthesia. If you have them prior, it might be the worst field to pursue.
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Man o War said:
Wow this is horrible. I’ve seen many people in our field go down this path over the years- CRNAs, docs, residents.
I heard recently about a CRNA who got high at work, left, and crashed her car into an overpass. When the cops showed up they found vials of drugs taken from her hospital strewn all over the road and in the car.
Makes you wonder how long these people use before they actually get caught.
Click to expand...

what the heck is wrong with you guys?? ready to crucify a fellow MD based on accusations. you realize he hasn't actually been convicted and found guilty of wrong-doing yet right? how about giving him the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise....

also, who the heck uses Demerol for procedural sedation??
 
leaverus said:
what the heck is wrong with you guys?? ready to crucify a fellow MD based on accusations. you realize he hasn't actually been convicted and found guilty of wrong-doing yet right? how about giving him the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise....

also, who the heck uses Demerol for procedural sedation??
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It would be surprising that they would be able to bring these charges without some evidence (drug test, witness, confession, etc) that he was intoxciated.

Although to me this act seems more like manslaughter than premeditated murder. It seems analogous to operating a vehicle intoxicated and killing someone in another vehicle which would lead to a charge of vehicular homicide.
 
This archaic drug meperidine, synthesized in 1939, is used for procedural sedation by paleolithic anesthesiologists. It stands with cyclopropane (first used 1933), and d-tubocurare (first used for anesthesia in 1940) as one of the seven wonders of the ancient anesthesia world.
 
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leaverus said:
what the heck is wrong with you guys?? ready to crucify a fellow MD based on accusations. you realize he hasn't actually been convicted and found guilty of wrong-doing yet right? how about giving him the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise....

also, who the heck uses Demerol for procedural sedation??
Click to expand...
My comment said that the situation was horrifying (someone died, which is always horrifying, or should be) and that addiction issues are a real problem in anesthesia.

I don't think he'd be charged for being high on narcotics and charged as such without evidence towards that. Even if he wasn't, my statement is still accurate. Addiction issues are real and anesthesia is not a solid choice for those who struggle with it.

Never said I thought he was a murderer. Never said he did anything wrong (though if accusations hold up he is in a tough spot). In fact, I didn't even comment on the demerol he used for sedation, which is bad medicine for several different reasons. Even if they had an allergy to every other opioid, their are other better choices.

And "crucifying another MD" may be a poor choice of words when, in fact, the patient that died on that table was an MD.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
 
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Murder implies intention. I find the trend of charging physicians with murder to be disturbing. If a drunk guy gets into his car and kills someone, the charge is usually manslaughter and not homicide because there is not intent to kill.

The information in the article did not mention any intent to kill. It's also possible that the reporter does not know the difference between manslaughter and homicide, but there is already precedent in charging a physician with murder as mentioned in the article.
 
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Man o War said:
Wow this is horrible. I’ve seen many people in our field go down this path over the years- CRNAs, docs, residents.
I heard recently about a CRNA who got high at work, left, and crashed her car into an overpass. When the cops showed up they found vials of drugs taken from her hospital strewn all over the road and in the car.
Makes you wonder how long these people use before they actually get caught.
Click to expand...

A young anesthesiologist was found dead of an overdose in a hospital bathroom. She was pregnant. Her OBGYN husband worked in the same hospital. It was horrible.
 
algosdoc said:
This archaic drug meperidine, synthesized in 1939, is used for procedural sedation by paleolithic anesthesiologists. It stands with cyclopropane (first used 1933), and d-tubocurare (first used for anesthesia in 1940) as one of the seven wonders of the ancient anesthesia world.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute, I’ve used dTc! A lot. But it was 40 yrs ago.
 
Demerol for the shivers. Some academic douchebag will "rediscover" it in a few years, publish some nonsense in A & A and it will come back
 
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BLADEMDA said:
How about this comment:

"I worked in hospitals for 25 years and the most dangerous person in the surgery suit is the anesthesiologist. Many read the newspaper or a magazine while the patient is on the surgery table. They are "waiting" for the alarms on the anesthesia cart to alarm if something isn't right. They do not actually monitor the settings, they are too busy doing anything other than their job. I would like to see the CEO of every hospital get off their pompous posteriors and take some time to put on a bunny suit and look at what is going on in the OR. This is gross negligence on the highest level and it needs to stopped."

CalHeightsRight@CalHeightsRight
Click to expand...

These comments sections are always full of CRNAs posting garbage like this.
 
PlutoBoy said:
A young anesthesiologist was found dead of an overdose in a hospital bathroom. She was pregnant. Her OBGYN husband worked in the same hospital. It was horrible.
Click to expand...

Absolutely horrible.
 
okayplayer said:
Although to me this act seems more like manslaughter than premeditated murder. It seems analogous to operating a vehicle intoxicated and killing someone in another vehicle which would lead to a charge of vehicular homicide.
Click to expand...
In the legal sense, there are different degrees of murder. Thus, the reporter may just be using lack of specificity to increase the impact of their article.
  • Murder, 1st degree: Intent and premeditation
  • Murder, 2nd degree: Intent only
  • Manslaughter, voluntary (aka Murder, 3rd degree): Lack of intent to kill victim, often with a emotional / mental disturbance that triggers action which resulted in the death
  • Manslaughter, involuntary (aka Murder, 4th degree): Lack of intent to harm victim, often a result of intentional or negligent act that lead to the death
Intent mentioned above means "malice aforethought" which encompasses: Intent to kill, intent to inflict grievous bodily harm, intent to commit a dangerous felony, &/or reckless indifference of human life.

So your example would be involuntary manslaughter, aka 4th murder.
 
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CopaceticOne said:
In the legal sense, there are different degrees of murder. Thus, the reporter may just be using lack of specificity to increase the impact of their article.
  • Murder, 1st degree: Intent and premeditation
  • Murder, 2nd degree: Intent only
  • Manslaughter, voluntary (aka Murder, 3rd degree): Lack of intent to kill victim, often with a emotional / mental disturbance that triggers action which resulted in the death
  • Manslaughter, involuntary (aka Murder, 4th degree): Lack of intent to harm victim, often a result of intentional or negligent act that lead to the death
Intent mentioned above means "malice aforethought" which encompasses: Intent to kill, intent to inflict grievous bodily harm, intent to commit a dangerous felony, &/or reckless indifference of human life.

So your example would be involuntary manslaughter, aka 4th murder.
Click to expand...

This post above presents the traditional legal definitions of homicide's gradations. However, the states will often up the charge when there are aggravating circumstances or lessen it when there are mitigating circumstances. Here is a link to more than you ever wanted to know about California's homicide laws.
Criminal Lawyers explain California "Murder" Laws; Penal Code 187 a pc

From the same firm here is a spiel on intoxication as a defense.
Intoxication as a Legal Defense in California Criminal Law

I wonder when some enterprising prosecutor will go after a surgeon for a death stemming from an unnecessary surgery. I would think that death would meet the traditional definition of misdemeanor manslaughter.
 
Obnoxious Dad said:
I wonder when some enterprising prosecutor will go after a surgeon for a death stemming from an unnecessary surgery.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... that would set quite the uncomfortable precedent. Lawyers aren't physicians (especially the ones who try criminal cases), who would decide whether a surgery is unnecessary or not? What about deaths from purely elective procedures? Slippery slope.

But an interesting idea regardless.
 
This guys biggest problem is he killed another doc with deep pockets. Buckle up idiot. I won’t even drink the night before I have to go in for cases the next day for this very reason. The patients deserve better

I had coresidents who habitually drank the days before going into work, it just seems risky imo. I’ve been hungover many times and am far from my best on those days
 
I would say murder is a stretch. Malpractice yes. Can someone on chronic opioids administer anesthesia? What about those who take benzodiazepines before bed? Where do we draw the line? Also when is it safe for a Anesthesisa provider to come back to work after recieving anesthesia themselves?
 
Every administrator, etc says they want quality anesthesia care, then they look for the lowest cost provider.....
 
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Obnoxious Dad said:
This post above presents the traditional legal definitions of homicide's gradations. However, the states will often up the charge when there are aggravating circumstances or lessen it when there are mitigating circumstances. Here is a link to more than you ever wanted to know about California's homicide laws.
Criminal Lawyers explain California "Murder" Laws; Penal Code 187 a pc

From the same firm here is a spiel on intoxication as a defense.
Intoxication as a Legal Defense in California Criminal Law

I wonder when some enterprising prosecutor will go after a surgeon for a death stemming from an unnecessary surgery. I would think that death would meet the traditional definition of misdemeanor manslaughter.
Click to expand...

There is also felony murder. If an individual commits a felony, and someone dies, it is murder. That is even true even if there is no direct connection between the crime and the death. If you rob a bank and a customer has a heart attack and dies, then felony murder.; you rob a bank and your accomplice is shot and killed by police, then you are guilty of murder. The only constraint is that the death must be somehow foreseeable.

A 30 second check of California law shows that if someone dies as a result of an "inherently dangerous" felony, then it is 2nd degree murder. I have no idea what the laws are like in California, but it is certainly possible that if he was actually under the influence of drugs, and if that was in some way, shape or form a felony in itself, (e.g., practicing medicine under the influence) then that could result in a murder charge. If all that is true, then there is no need for the prosecution to prove that he intended to kill, or even that he was negligent. I suppose if the prosecutor really wanted to get creative, he could argue that failure to follow the "standard of care" would violate the informed consent and that could be felony battery.

One of my standard sayings is that every American over the age of 18 probably commits a felony at least every 6 months. Check out A Crime a Day (@CrimeADay) | Twitter
 
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leaverus said:
what are you using it for - cerclage and cystos?
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I wish I was still using it. We haven’t had PF Demerol for >10yrs. But back when I had it, I used it for cysto’s, knee scopes, and even BTL’s. Basically anything from the umbilicus to the knee that is an hour or less and not super painful. But cysto’s are the best case for Demerol spinals.
 
So getting back to the hub of this. How does anyone know the doc in the centre of the case injected himself?

Maybe he's on opioids at home, his urine screen could be positive from that.
Plus does he have to submit to a urine or blood test after a patient codes in the OR?

Was any of that even done? Sounds like someone was watching this guy reallly closely to catch him in the act. And if they were watching that closely don't they bear some repsonsibility to the patient who died?
 
Beach bum said:
Every administrator, etc says they want quality anesthesia care, then they look for the lowest cost provider.....
Click to expand...

Didn't an anesthesiologist do the case? Don't get how that was a low cost provider.
 
leaverus said:
what the heck is wrong with you guys?? ready to crucify a fellow MD based on accusations. you realize he hasn't actually been convicted and found guilty of wrong-doing yet right? how about giving him the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise....

also, who the heck uses Demerol for procedural sedation??
Click to expand...
Prosecutors would not be this apt to pursue the case if there was not a preponderance of evidence to begin with. In most cases, I take the innocent until proven guilty line, but prosecutors are so reluctant to go after physicians that they generally end up being guilty.
 
Never used Demerol..didn’t have it in training and not on formulary now. What’s the downside of it?
 
Maverikk said:
Never used Demerol..didn’t have it in training and not on formulary now. What’s the downside of it?
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I heard it is highly addictive. Plus toxic metabolites in people with renal failure.
 
Last edited:
Meperidine has less spasm inducing effect on smooth muscles than other opiates which made it particularly helpful in biliary, intestinal, and urinary visceral pain.
It also has a euphoric effect that makes patients like it.
The metabolite Normeperidine is devoid of analgesic properties and responsible for the neurotoxic effects, but it's unlikely to cause a problem after a single dose in PACU.
There is a theoretical risk of serotonin syndrome when combined with SRIs.
It should not be used with MAOIs either.
 
Last edited:
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It's pethidine. Used a lot in the UK.
Has local anaesthesic affects almost equipotent to lidocaine so can do spinals with just plain pethidine.

It's also atropine like and causes a mini tachycardia. It Was found originally in a search for atropine like compounds I believe

But has dropped out of favour due to the renal clearance and seizures with norpethidine.

It's good for post op shivering. That's the only thing I've used it for. 10mg iv. I don't think the mechanism is well understood.

Less sphincter of oddi spasm apparently than morphine but I don't think that transforms into a clinical difference
 
Planktonmd said:
Meperidine has less spasm inducing effect on smooth muscles than other opiates which made it particularly helpful in biliary, intestinal, and urinary visceral pain.
It also has a euphoric effect that makes patients like it.
The metabolite Normeperidine is devoid of analgesic properties and responsible for the neurotoxic effects, but it's unlikely to cause a problem after a single dose in PACU.
There is a theoretical risk of serotonin syndrome when combined with SRIs.
It should not be used with MAOIs either.
Click to expand...

Demerol is just an angry drug overall and should be mostly avoided.
 
BLADEMDA said:
How about this comment:

"I worked in hospitals for 25 years and the most dangerous person in the surgery suit is the anesthesiologist. Many read the newspaper or a magazine while the patient is on the surgery table. They are "waiting" for the alarms on the anesthesia cart to alarm if something isn't right. They do not actually monitor the settings, they are too busy doing anything other than their job. I would like to see the CEO of every hospital get off their pompous posteriors and take some time to put on a bunny suit and look at what is going on in the OR. This is gross negligence on the highest level and it needs to stopped."

CalHeightsRight@CalHeightsRight
Click to expand...
Ha.

How about ceo of hospitals out playing golf and not doing their jobs and getting hundred of thousands in bonus even as hospital continues to operate in the red. That’s gross negligence. Ceo mis calculating need for hospital coverage cauSe they too cheap to pay docs to cover indigent patients while on call.
 
Planktonmd said:
Meperidine has less spasm inducing effect on smooth muscles than other opiates which made it particularly helpful in biliary, intestinal, and urinary visceral pain.
It also has a euphoric effect that makes patients like it.
The metabolite Normeperidine is devoid of analgesic properties and responsible for the neurotoxic effects, but it's unlikely to cause a problem after a single dose in PACU.
There is a theoretical risk of serotonin syndrome when combined with SRIs.
It should not be used with MAOIs either.
Click to expand...
“Theoretical” risk of serotonin syndrome? Isn’t that what the ME concluded killed Libby Zion?
 
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Pooh & Annie said:
“Theoretical” risk of serotonin syndrome? Isn’t that what the ME concluded killed Libby Zion?
Click to expand...
She presented to the ER already agitated, having abnormal movements and febrile and apparently she forgot to tell them that she did cocaine at some point (according to the defense). She was taking phenelzine which is an MAOI.
The residents thought she had some sort of infection and when she kept complaining they gave her Demerol. When the agitation continued they gave her Haldol and restrained her, hours later she was found comatose with a fever of 107.
So which one was it? Cocaine, Meperidine or Haldol?
 
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