Biden guilty on all counts

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When the facts don't line up, let's just push some conspiracies.

Trump tactics 101

These posts aren't intended to change your mind. Most of you voting for Biden have made your decision: Trump is evil, decadent, narcissistic and dangerous to the nation. Some of us are making an attempt to explain to you why this election will be close despite Trump as the GOP nominee. Perhaps, if the moderates of Democrat party had taken these issues seriously the election wouldn't be close. This administration has been anything but "moderate" in many of its policies. Inflation, the border and foreign policy will be the reasons Biden loses the election (if he does indeed lose).


The Trump campaign says it hauled in $141 million last month, with nearly 38 percent arriving after the May 30 verdict.
 
That is a much softer stance than previously on a thread started by Blade a couple of years ago.
I have never favored mandatory (state-enforced) vaccinations. I value freedom and a person isn't free unless he's free to make bad decisions that might result in self-harm

But neither have I ever held much sympathy for those who chose not to get vaccinated, but were then excluded from certain public activities.

My opinion on the wisdom of employer-mandated vaccination varies according to the specifics of the job, but I have always felt such requirements to be legal and morally/ethically defensible. Anyone who doesn't like it, can negotiate a different deal with the employer, or quit.

I don't think I've really softened my stance on healthcare workers who refused vaccination - I think they were foolish. I supported their employers' discretion to fire them, accept faux-religious waivers, or accept alternative mitigating actions or controls as they saw fit.
 


Republican former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, Calif., said the willingness of busy CEOs to schlep to Washington for face time with Trump was a function of the tight presidential race.

“I think [CEOs] see what everybody else sees, that he’s going to win,” McCarthy said Wednesday on CNBC’s “Squawk Box.”
 
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Trump is evil, decadent, narcissistic and dangerous to the nation.

Yes

Some of us are making an attempt to explain to you why this election will be close despite Trump as the GOP nominee.

Oh, we understand why. There's a large cohort of people who think their near-term "policy" preferences are more important than keeping the man they freely acknowledge is narcissistic and dangerous out of the presidency.

You, for example, said you're more concerned about (maybe) saving a few tens of thousands of dollars on taxes (if Trump actually were able to get a tax cut through Congress), than you are about anything else.

Perhaps, if the moderates of Democrat party had taken these issues seriously the election wouldn't be close.

Totally agree. Democrats are terrible strategists, film at 11.

This administration has been anything but "moderate" in many of its policies. Inflation, the border and foreign policy will be the reasons Biden loses the election (if he does indeed lose).

You may be correct.
 
If you don't want to get convicted, then don't commit the crimes.

If you get pulled over and you cuss out the cops, do you think you are more likely to get a ticket or get a warning?

If you constantly attack the prosecutors, judges, jurors, etc. Do you think you'll get a sympathetic decision?

It's called real life. I am sure Trump can handle it.

Should we elect a commission to determine if a prosecutor should file charges ahead of time?

A prosecutor looks at the potential cost, evidence, likelihood of conviction, etc. their personal opinion of the defendent is pretty low on the priority list.

Every guilty person just says they were targeted. What else are they going to say after a guilty verdict?
Both of trump Atlanta and New York prosecutors have significant democratic ties. And the Florida judge has significant republican ties.

If you can’t come to any common sense which ways those cases had proceeded or will proceed. Than you are being ignorant.
 
Both of trump Atlanta and New York prosecutors have significant democratic ties. And the Florida judge has significant republican ties.

If you can’t come to any common sense which ways those cases had proceeded or will proceed. Than you are being ignorant.

The only way to prosecute a Republican is with a Republican?

The only "democratic ties" the NYC judge has are a $100 donation 4 years ago and his daughters job.

Go back to the Trump specific thread, we went over the judge's "biases" there.

Edit: Wait, you're saying the ending of each case is a forgone conclusion based on who the judge is? Wild speculation. Cannon is incompetent or intentionally slowing the case, there is an argument for that. The fact that the NYC judge let the case proceed isn't indicative of bias.
 
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The only way to prosecute a Republican is with a Republican?

The only "democratic ties" the NYC judge has are a $100 donation 4 years ago and his daughters job.

The only way to prosecute a Republican is with a Republican?

The only "democratic ties" the NYC judge has are a $100 donation 4 years ago and his daughters job.

Go back to the Trump specific thread, we went over the judge's "biases" there.

Edit: Wait, you're saying the ending of each case is a forgone conclusion based on who the judge is? Wild speculation. Cannon is incompetent or intentionally slowing the case, there is an argument for that. The fact that the NYC judge let the case proceed isn't indicative of bias.
Bragg campaigned to hold trump accountable in 2021. And don’t tell me there is no bias in his prosecution.
 
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Bragg campaigned to hold trump accountable in 2021. And don’t tell me there is no bias in his prosecution.

What does it mean for a prosecutor to be biased here??? It's literally HIS JOB to prosecute crimes.

You're trying to make the case that this was selective prosecution, that is something that Trump can argue on appeal, but I don't expect it to go anywhere because there have been dozens of indictments of felony level "falsifying business records" indictments in NY over the past decade.
 
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What does it mean for a prosecutor to be biased here??? It's literally HIS JOB to prosecute crimes.

You're trying to make the case that this was selective prosecution, that is something that Trump can argue on appeal, but I don't expect it to go anywhere because there have been dozens of cases of felony level "falsifying business records" indictments in NY over the past decade.
Again. You are living in a different universe if you don’t think there is any bias.

Look the the republican judge in Florida putting road blocks against the trump prosecution down there she’s bias also.

Have some common sense.
 
Again. You are living in a different universe if you don’t think there is any bias.

Look the the republican judge in Florida putting road blocks against the trump prosecution down there she’s bias also.

Have some common sense.

You're conflating the job of a judge and a prosecutor now. Bragg is a prosecutor. Cannon is a judge.

But yes, we can point to decisions Cannon has made that delay Trump's case (allowing amicus briefs to be presented by outside parties at a District Court is extremely rare to say the least) and we can speculate that those decisions are politically motivated or just incompetence.

What decisions do you believe Merchan made that were biased against a defendant who routinely insulted him, his family, and arguably intimidated witnesses? Merchan showed remarkable restraint compared to other judges when similar behavior is before them. Also... we've already talked about this on the Trump thread.

Edit: You should recognize your whole argument boils down to the idea that the entire judicial system is corrupt and there is no conceivable way Donald Trump could be rightfully convicted. If you had stronger arguments you wouldn't be relying on attacking the judge or prosecutor.
 
You're conflating the job of a judge and a prosecutor now. Bragg is a prosecutor. Cannon is a judge.

But yes, we can point to decisions Cannon has made that delay Trump's case (allowing amicus briefs to be presented by outside parties at a District Court is extremely rare to say the least) and we can speculate that those decisions are politically motivated or just incompetence.

What decisions do you believe Merchan made that were biased against a defendant who routinely insulted him, his family, and arguably intimidated witnesses? Merchan showed remarkable restraint compared to other judges when similar behavior is before them. Also... we've already talked about this on the Trump thread.

Edit: You should recognize your whole argument boils down to the idea that the entire judicial system is corrupt and there is no conceivable way Donald Trump could be rightfully convicted. If you had stronger arguments you wouldn't be relying on attacking the judge or prosecutor.
My idea is these are political prosecutions. Both Hunter Biden and Trump.

Based on the letter of the law. Trump is guilty

You are so focused on trump and the conviction you are missing the bigger picture that any small business can be targeted in the future for false business transactions (which is hunter Biden next case)

This becomes personal and don’t think for a second in the future trump will use his federal powers to go after opponents business filings and their family members.
 
Is that reasonable or rational? I respect that he has changed his stance and has strong opinions, but it does not mean that I abandon all of my ideas in order to comply with his demands.

Did you see the list of quotes that @rowsdower88 posted in the the other thread?


Former Vice President Mike Pence:
“It should come as no surprise that I will not be endorsing Donald Trump this year."
"Donald Trump is pursuing and articulating an agenda that is at odds with the conservative agenda that we governed on during our four years. And that's why I cannot in good conscience endorse Donald Trump in this campaign."

Former US Secretary of Defense Mark Esper:
Speaking to CNN in July 2023, he said Trump is not "fit for office because he puts himself first, and I think anybody running for office should put the country first."

Former US Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis:
"His use of the Presidency to destroy trust in our election and to poison our respect for fellow citizens has been enabled by pseudo political leaders whose names will live in infamy as profiles in cowardice."

Former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly:
"A person who admires autocrats and murderous dictators. A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law."

Former Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs Mark Milley:
“We don’t take an oath to a king or a queen or to a tyrant or a dictator. And we don’t take an oath to a wannabe dictator."

Former US National Security Advisor John Bolton:
"Trump really cares only about retribution for himself, and it will consume much of a second term."

Former White House Aide Cassidy Hutchison:
"If Donald Trump is elected president again in 2024, I do fear that it will be the last election where we're voting for democracy because, if he is elected again, I don't think we'll be voting under the same Constitution."

The full list is significantly longer. Some members of this list may have subsequently chosen to support him, I haven't kept close track.​



If you're actually being honest, you'd acknowledge that plenty of center, center-right, and conservative folks both here on SDN and nationally have come to their senses about trump vis a vis the fact that it's not just a political or policy disagreement at this point. Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and Lindsey Graham are also among the people who had the most vicious things to say about trump before their backbones disappeared.

No one is getting shouted down here. In reality, people have presented plenty of cogent arguments which you dance around, do not directly engage with, and then go off on a tangent from hoping no one will notice. It's pretty much all you can do, because as an intelligent person you likely realize the facts are not on your side wrt the question of whether trump tried to subvert an election, whether he would do it again, and whether he idolizes/wants to emulate authoritarian dictators like Putin, Xi, Kim, and Orban.

But maybe you still believe this is a "my guy has pluses and minuses and your guy has pluses and minuses so this is just a difference of two equal opinions" kind of issue. But to give you an analogy, imagine we're having a football game. Your safety has his hands all over my receiver and it looks like it could be pass interference. Reasonable coaches on opposing sides going back decades have quibbled all day about whether there was pass interference or not. And that's fine to argue about whether there was an infraction. But now we have a coach on one side who not only doesn't believe that pass interference should be a rule, but he doesn't believe the rulebook holds any authority at all. That's where we're at right now, and why this argument maybe feels different to you than previous political arguments. Blade is already on the record saying he doesn't care if trump is convicted of everything which he's been charged with, i..e he also doesn't care about the rulebook. I wonder if you share that opinion as well
 
But maybe you still believe this is a "my guy has pluses and minuses and your guy has pluses and minuses so this is just a difference of two equal opinions" kind of issue. But to give you an analogy, imagine we're having a football game. Your safety has his hands all over my receiver and it looks like it could be pass interference. Reasonable coaches on opposing sides going back decades have quibbled all day about whether there was pass interference or not. And that's fine to argue about whether there was an infraction. But now we have a coach on one side who not only doesn't believe that pass interference should be a rule, but he doesn't believe the rulebook holds any authority at all. That's where we're at right now, and why this argument maybe feels different to you than previous political arguments. Blade is already on the record saying he doesn't care if trump is convicted of everything which he's been charged with, i..e he also doesn't care about the rulebook. I wonder if you share that opinion as well
Appreciate the response. I have admitted that Trump has big issues and the election subversion issue was discussed and I did not deny that. I have said that there are a multitude of candidates that I would rather have than Trump. The issues I see as the largest issues are not the same as some others and I believe that Biden's huge issues get downplayed.
The bolded sentence is a fair assessment of where I am at the moment.
 
Appreciate the response. I have admitted that Trump has big issues and the election subversion issue was discussed and I did not deny that. I have said that there are a multitude of candidates that I would rather have than Trump. The issues I see as the largest issues are not the same as some others and I believe that Biden's huge issues get downplayed.
The bolded sentence is a fair assessment of where I am at the moment.

The fact that you don't deny the election subversion issue is why your position here makes no sense to people like @pgg and myself. Again, to reuse my analogy, during Obama v Romney our candidate choices were pretty much based entirely on our policy differences-- because people on both sides believed the candidates were both players who believed in the rules of the game.

Trump has demonstrated time and time again that he does not respect or believe in the rules of the game, whether we're talking about elections, the Constitution, the justice system, or any other institution that we usually hold dear. So, if you are a citizen with some regard for civic duty who generally or broadly cares that there is a system of rules that we all must follow, then there is no bigger issue than the election subversion issue. And if it's not your biggest issue, it's the same as saying you're fine with the coach who will tell his players to intentionally foul over and over and over again as long as he wins the game.
 
Kick Biden off the Democrat ballot (or trump off
The republican ballot? and put RFK Jr who’s running as 3rd party

3rd party is a waste of a presidential vote in my opinion.

I’d vote for RFK Jr on the democratic or republican ticket over trump or Biden.
 
Kick Biden off the Democrat ballot (or trump off
The republican ballot? and put RFK Jr who’s running as 3rd party

3rd party is a waste of a presidential vote in my opinion.

I’d vote for RFK Jr on the democratic or republican ticket over trump or Biden.

Well I'd vote for Brian Boitano if he was on the ballot.

If he was here right now he'd make a plan and he'd follow through. I'm sure he'd kick an ass or two, that's what Brian Boitano'd do.
 
Did you see the list of quotes that @rowsdower88 posted in the the other thread?

Former Vice President Mike Pence:​
“It should come as no surprise that I will not be endorsing Donald Trump this year."​
"Donald Trump is pursuing and articulating an agenda that is at odds with the conservative agenda that we governed on during our four years. And that's why I cannot in good conscience endorse Donald Trump in this campaign."​
Former US Secretary of Defense Mark Esper:​
Speaking to CNN in July 2023, he said Trump is not "fit for office because he puts himself first, and I think anybody running for office should put the country first."​
Former US Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis:​
"His use of the Presidency to destroy trust in our election and to poison our respect for fellow citizens has been enabled by pseudo political leaders whose names will live in infamy as profiles in cowardice."​
Former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly:​
"A person who admires autocrats and murderous dictators. A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law."​
Former Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs Mark Milley:​
“We don’t take an oath to a king or a queen or to a tyrant or a dictator. And we don’t take an oath to a wannabe dictator."​
Former US National Security Advisor John Bolton:​
"Trump really cares only about retribution for himself, and it will consume much of a second term."​
Former White House Aide Cassidy Hutchison:​
"If Donald Trump is elected president again in 2024, I do fear that it will be the last election where we're voting for democracy because, if he is elected again, I don't think we'll be voting under the same Constitution."​
The full list is significantly longer. Some members of this list may have subsequently chosen to support him, I haven't kept close track.​



If you're actually being honest, you'd acknowledge that plenty of center, center-right, and conservative folks both here on SDN and nationally have come to their senses about trump vis a vis the fact that it's not just a political or policy disagreement at this point. Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and Lindsey Graham are also among the people who had the most vicious things to say about trump before their backbones disappeared.

No one is getting shouted down here. In reality, people have presented plenty of cogent arguments which you dance around, do not directly engage with, and then go off on a tangent from hoping no one will notice. It's pretty much all you can do, because as an intelligent person you likely realize the facts are not on your side wrt the question of whether trump tried to subvert an election, whether he would do it again, and whether he idolizes/wants to emulate authoritarian dictators like Putin, Xi, Kim, and Orban.

But maybe you still believe this is a "my guy has pluses and minuses and your guy has pluses and minuses so this is just a difference of two equal opinions" kind of issue. But to give you an analogy, imagine we're having a football game. Your safety has his hands all over my receiver and it looks like it could be pass interference. Reasonable coaches on opposing sides going back decades have quibbled all day about whether there was pass interference or not. And that's fine to argue about whether there was an infraction. But now we have a coach on one side who not only doesn't believe that pass interference should be a rule, but he doesn't believe the rulebook holds any authority at all. That's where we're at right now, and why this argument maybe feels different to you than previous political arguments. Blade is already on the record saying he doesn't care if trump is convicted of everything which he's been charged with, i..e he also doesn't care about the rulebook. I wonder if you share that opinion as well
What you posted above is true. I firmly believe our system will keep Trump in check. I also believe Biden’s policies are much worse for the nation than Trump’s. Hence, I will hold my nose and vote for Trump. Again, I don’t disagree with your post but I do disagree that Biden is a better choice. That says a lot about how I view Biden’s term in office. I really would prefer Trump not be the GOP nominee. Finally, name calling won’t change the result of this election. I vote on policy and I don’t agree with Biden on just about anything.
 
What you posted above is true. I firmly believe our system will keep Trump in check.
There's absolutely no reason to believe this.

None of the people who were there to keep trump in check during the first term (such as General Kelly, McMaster, Mattis, Esper, Jeff Sessions, Mike Pence, etc) will be there in the future. The Speaker of the House is a sycophant. trump's VP, his entire cabinet, and the DOJ will be sycophants. Not to mention, in the last election 139 House members and 8 Senators essentially joined the coup by voting in some form to invalidate the electoral vote count.

And really (and I'm saying this not to be mean but rather just cause it's factual at this point) you don't really have any ethical or moral credibility on this matter anymore given that you're on the record now stating "I would vote for Trump over Biden if he gets convicted in every trial."
 
There's absolutely no reason to believe this.

None of the people who were there to keep trump in check during the first term (such as General Kelly, McMaster, Mattis, Esper, Jeff Sessions, Mike Pence, etc) will be there in the future. The Speaker of the House is a sycophant. trump's VP, his entire cabinet, and the DOJ will be sycophants. Not to mention, in the last election 139 House members and 8 Senators essentially joined the coup by voting in some form to invalidate the electoral vote count.

And really (and I'm saying this not to be mean but rather just cause it's factual at this point) you don't really have any ethical or moral credibility on this matter anymore given that you're on the record now stating "I would vote for Trump over Biden if he gets convicted in every trial."
I guess the 49-51 percent of the country won’t agree with your viewpoint come this November. That’s why we have elections so the people can decide the election and not someone claiming the moral high ground. When Biden allowed in 10 million illegal immigrants without proper vetting he became a bigger threat to my safety and the safety of this nation than Trump. The main reason Biden did this was to attempt to change the electorate forever by making 10-20 million New Democrat voters. This was a pure power play and just as much an attack on democracy as Trump. When Biden and the Dems sat by and did nothing while our cities burned during the BLM riots this was an example of the hypocrisy of the left. The Jan 06 rioters are all I jail, yet how many of the BLM rioters who looted and burned are in jail? Were they not a threat to my democracy and my safety? So yes, I’m voting for Trump despite all his flaws. Trump 2024. My hunch is Trump wins the election in November.
 
I guess the 49-51 percent of the country won’t agree with your viewpoint come this November. That’s why we have elections so the people can decide the election and not someone claiming the moral high ground. When Biden allowed in 10 million illegal immigrants without proper vetting he became a bigger threat to my safety and the safety of this nation than Trump. The main reason Biden did this was to attempt to change the electorate forever by making 10-20 million New Democrat voters. This was a pure power play and just as much an attack on democracy as Trump. When Biden and the Dems sat by and did nothing while our cities burned during the BLM riots this was an example of the hypocrisy of the left. The Jan 06 rioters are all I jail, yet how many of the BLM rioters who looted and burned are in jail? Were they not a threat to my democracy and my safety? So yes, I’m voting for Trump despite all his flaws. Trump 2024. My hunch is Trump wins the election in November.

Sigh, not surprised it's just more conspiracies, false equivalencies, and a total ignorance of the logical fallacy that just cause you have a lot of people in your side (although with trump it's always a minority of people, right), it doesn't make your position any more justified or correct.

It is nice though that you're finally just waving the MAGA flag proudly and copping up to the fact you'd vote for a guy convicted under the Espionage Act of willfull retention of classified national defense information or conspiracy to defraud to United States during a presidential election. Much better than this hemming and hawing bullsht pretense you've been carrying on for awhile now about how distasteful you find him.
 
Sigh, not surprised it's just more conspiracies, false equivalencies, and a total ignorance of the logical fallacy that just cause you have a lot of people in your side (although with trump it's always a minority of people, right), it doesn't make your position any more justified or correct.

It is nice though that you're finally just waving the MAGA flag proudly and copping up to the fact you'd vote for a guy convicted under the Espionage Act of willfull retention of classified national defense information or conspiracy to defraud to United States during a presidential election. Much better than this hemming and hawing bullsht pretense you've been carrying on for awhile now about how distasteful you find him.
That facts are that you didn’t vote for trump in 2020 and won’t vote for him in 2024.

Those are facts

Facts are blade voted for trump in 2020 and will vote for trump in 2024. Facts.

As for willful retention of classified documents. Trump hasn’t been convicted. He’s been not guilty twice during impeachment.

And Biden gets a free pass on his retention of classified documents because he had “poor memory”. So if trump claims poor memory. Does he get a pass on the same charges??
 
The fact you can’t see I’m not MAGA says volumes about you. Trump won’t win in November without the independent voter. They will decide the election. Young black male Americans aren’t MAGA either but they too will vote for Trump in record numbers. Voters are making a choice against Biden not for Trump. This will be another close election but the electoral college favors Trump. Biden doesn’t deserve another 4 years but I’m not sure Trump does either. So, I’ll vote for the policy and not the man.
 

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That facts are that you didn’t vote for trump in 2020 and won’t vote for him in 2024.

Those are facts

Facts are blade voted for trump in 2020 and will vote for trump in 2024. Facts.

As for willful retention of classified documents. Trump hasn’t been convicted. He’s been not guilty twice during impeachment.

And Biden gets a free pass on his retention of classified documents because he had “poor memory”. So if trump claims poor memory. Does he get a pass on the same charges??

Read closer.

Blade said:
"I would vote for Trump over Biden if he gets convicted in every trial."

I.e. even if found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law of serious federal crimes, blade would vote for him. That's shameful.


And you're entirely misrepresenting the findings of the Republican special counsel who found no criminal wrongdoing. It's already been explained to you multiple times how trumps criminal retention of classified information (despite multiple chances to give them back no questions asked) is entirely different than the documents that both Biden AND Pence voluntarily searched for and immediately turned over to the FBI/DOJ. But per usual, you continue deflecting and ignoring the obvious differences.


This was done by the military and given to me,” Trump continues, before noting that the document remained classified. “See as president I could have declassified it,” Trump says. “Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret.” “Now we have a problem,” his staffer responds. “Isn’t that interesting,” Trump says.

 
I guess the 49-51 percent of the country won’t agree with your viewpoint come this November. That’s why we have elections so the people can decide the election and not someone claiming the moral high ground. When Biden allowed in 10 million illegal immigrants without proper vetting he became a bigger threat to my safety and the safety of this nation than Trump. The main reason Biden did this was to attempt to change the electorate forever by making 10-20 million New Democrat voters. This was a pure power play and just as much an attack on democracy as Trump. When Biden and the Dems sat by and did nothing while our cities burned during the BLM riots this was an example of the hypocrisy of the left. The Jan 06 rioters are all I jail, yet how many of the BLM rioters who looted and burned are in jail? Were they not a threat to my democracy and my safety? So yes, I’m voting for Trump despite all his flaws. Trump 2024. My hunch is Trump wins the election in November.
Very few BLM rioters are in jail. Many were charged with minor crimes (misdemeanors). Very few charged with felonies. Considering 2 billion dollars worth of insurance claims were made due to damage. The mere facts only a few got jail time is disturbing. And blade is correct. Many fear for their safety during these riots.
 
Read closer.

Blade said:
"I would vote for Trump over Biden if he gets convicted in every trial."

I.e. even if found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law of serious federal crimes, blade would vote for him. That's shameful.


And you're entirely misrepresenting the findings of the Republican special counsel who found no criminal wrongdoing. It's already been explained to you multiple times how trumps criminal retention of classified information is entirely different than the documents that both Biden AND Pence immediately voluntarily searched for and turned over to the FBI/DOJ. But per usual, you continue deflecting and ignoring the obvious differences.
If you rob a bank but say you are sorry and give back the money should you go to jail? Or, does the guy who shows no remorse the only one who gets jail time? Biden was guilty and given a free pass.
 
Read closer.

Blade said:
"I would vote for Trump over Biden if he gets convicted in every trial."

I.e. even if found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law of serious federal crimes, blade would vote for him. That's shameful.


And you're entirely misrepresenting the findings of the Republican special counsel who found no criminal wrongdoing. It's already been explained to you multiple times how trumps criminal retention of classified information (despite multiple chances to give them back no questions asked) is entirely different than the documents that both Biden AND Pence voluntarily searched for and immediately turned over to the FBI/DOJ. But per usual, you continue deflecting and ignoring the obvious differences.
What deflection. I said you voted for Biden in 2020. Facts. You will vote for Biden in 2024. Facts

No deflection here.

Everyone’s line in the sand has been drawn.
 
If you rob a bank but say you are sorry and give back the money should you go to jail? Or, does the guy who shows no remorse the only one who gets jail time? Biden was guilty and given a free pass.

Your analogy doesn't work. There is longstanding precedent not to prosecute cases involving inadvertent mishandling of classified materials when the individuals cooperate and there is no evidence of intent to retain or misuse the information. Also, the classified material Biden and Pence had was apparently much less serious and/or related to defense than what trump willfully - keyword: WILLFULLY - *refused* to give back when asked repeatedly to do so.

Not to mention, you had a hack partisan Republican special counsel who absolutely would've said there was criminal wrongdoing by Biden if there actually was any.

The fact you can’t see I’m not MAGA says volumes about you.

No, blade. Just no. When you openly state that you'd vote for trump even if he was convicted in a court of law of multiple serious federal crimes, you are definitely MAGA.

I understand your confusion, though, cause many times cult members don't realize they're in a cult until it's too late.
 
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I guess the 49-51 percent of the country won’t agree with your viewpoint come this November. That’s why we have elections so the people can decide the election and not someone claiming the moral high ground. When Biden allowed in 10 million illegal immigrants without proper vetting he became a bigger threat to my safety and the safety of this nation than Trump. The main reason Biden did this was to attempt to change the electorate forever by making 10-20 million New Democrat voters. This was a pure power play and just as much an attack on democracy as Trump. When Biden and the Dems sat by and did nothing while our cities burned during the BLM riots this was an example of the hypocrisy of the left. The Jan 06 rioters are all I jail, yet how many of the BLM rioters who looted and burned are in jail? Were they not a threat to my democracy and my safety? So yes, I’m voting for Trump despite all his flaws. Trump 2024. My hunch is Trump wins the election in November.

You want to know how I know this is all BS? Because literally less than a year ago you weren't planning on voting Trump and were planning on voting third party. Now you need to find reasons to justify your MAGA turn and suddenly there weren't enough felony charges for the BLM rioters and the Jan 6-ers are political prisoners.

What actually has changed from less than a year ago? Trump became the Republican nominee and now stands a decent chance of taking the presidency.
 
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Both of trump Atlanta and New York prosecutors have significant democratic ties. And the Florida judge has significant republican ties.

If you can’t come to any common sense which ways those cases had proceeded or will proceed. Than you are being ignorant.
[/QUOTE]
Who cares if the prosecutors are biased. They are PROSECUTORS. They are supposed to be going after the defendent. And the defense team should be biased towards the defendent.

It's vastly different when the judge in new York simply donated $50 to the democratic party vs the Florida judge was Appointed by the defendent and has been widely criticized (and in some cases overruled)
 
You want to know how I know this is all BS? Because literally less than a year ago you weren't planning on voting Trump and were planning on voting third party. Now you need to find reasons to justify your MAGA turn and suddenly there weren't enough felony charges for the BLM rioters and the Jan 6-ers are political prisoners.

What actually has changed from less than a year ago? Trump became the Republican nominee and now stands a decent chance of taking the presidency.
There's still almost 5 months until the election, plenty of time for Blade to change his mind a few more times. 🙂

I fondly remember the 2012 GOP primary threads here (a happier time! a simpler time!) when every few weeks as the polls showed a new leader he'd get on that bandwagon and explain to us why this new guy would beat Obama.

He hopped on and off the Herman Cain Train so fast that if it was a real train the momentum whiplash would've altered the earth's spin.
 

Will be fun watching him on the debate stage. He is already making excuses for why Biden will win the debates
I mean check your sources. It’s not surprising every left leaning publication is going to try to paint Trump as meandering and incompetent (which he is) and every right leaning publication will continue to blast Biden as the same (which he is).

Will be interesting to see them go head to head in the debate and see who comes out ahead err, at least less behind?
 
I mean check your sources. It’s not surprising every left leaning publication is going to try to paint Trump as meandering and incompetent (which he is) and every right leaning publication will continue to blast Biden as the same (which he is).

Will be interesting to see them go head to head in the debate and see who comes out ahead err, at least less behind?

The "check your sources" thing only goes so far. These publications are ultimately reporting what a bunch of CEOs (many of whom were known or presumed to be trump-friendly) are saying to reporters, and what they're saying is precisely congruent with the impression of anyone who's listened to him for 5 minutes.

Furthermore, if you look at CNBC's reporting, the lifeblood of guys like Sorkin is their exclusive access to high-level CEOs, so there's absolutely no incentive for them to misrepresent what CEOs are telling them .


CEOs at Trump meeting: Ex-president ‘meandering’ and ‘doesn’t know what he’s talking about’

KEY POINTS
-Former President Donald Trump failed to impress everyone in a room full of top CEOs this week, multiple attendees told CNBC.

-“Trump doesn’t know what he’s talking about,” said one CEO who was in the room.

-Several CEOs “said that [Trump] was remarkably meandering, could not keep a straight thought [and] was all over the map,” Andrew Ross Sorkin, co-host of CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” reported.

WASHINGTON — Former President Donald Trump failed to impress everyone in a room full of top CEOs Thursday at the Business Roundtable’s quarterly meeting, multiple attendees told CNBC.

“Trump doesn’t know what he’s talking about,” said one CEO who was in the room, according to a person who heard the executive speaking. The CEO also said Trump did not explain how he planned to accomplish any of his policy proposals, that person said.

Several CEOs “said that [Trump] was remarkably meandering, could not keep a straight thought [and] was all over the map,” CNBC’s Andrew Ross Sorkin reported Friday on CNBC’s “Squawk Box.”

Among the topics on which Trump offered scant details were how he would reduce taxes and cut back on business regulations, according to two other people in the room who spoke to CNBC.

Meeting attendees and people who spoke with them were granted anonymity in order to speak freely about the private event.

The same CEOs who were struck by Trump’s lack of focus “walked into the meeting being Trump supporter-ish or thinking that they might be leaning that direction,” Sorkin reported.

“These were people who I think might have been actually predisposed to [Trump but] actually walked out of the room less predisposed” to him, Sorkin said.

“President Trump was warmly received by everyone in the room and was commended for his policy proposals on deregulation and tax cuts,” said Steven Cheung, communications director for the Trump presidential campaign.

Trump’s energy in the meeting was also noticeably subdued, according to two people who were in the room. At no time during his remarks was there any noticeable applause for Trump, two attendees told CNBC.

This was in contrast to Trump’s meeting earlier in the day with House Republicans on Capitol Hill. Attendees at that meeting told CNBC that the former president was animated and engaged and that Trump received several rounds of applause in separate meetings Thursday with both House and Senate Republicans.

Cheung said there was applause for Trump during the Q-and-A section of the meeting, “where participants commended President Trump for his deregulatory and tax cut agenda.”

Trump’s low-key energy at the Business Roundtable event could have been deliberate, one attendee told CNBC. Trump had wanted the CEO meeting to be “more like a business meeting than a speech,” the person said.

“At one point, he discussed his plan to bring the corporate tax rate down from 21% to 20% … and was asked about why he had chosen 20%,” Sorkin said Friday on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.” “And he said, ‘Well, it’s a round number.’”

“That unto itself had a number of CEOs shaking their heads,” Sorkin reported.

In 2023, corporate income taxes contributed approximately $420 billion to federal revenues, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Wall Street has bristled over the past three years under President Joe Biden’s aggressive antitrust enforcement, pharmaceutical price caps and progressive tax policy.

 
The "check your sources" thing only goes so far. These publications are ultimately reporting what a bunch of CEOs (many of whom were known or presumed to be trump-friendly) are saying to reporters, and what they're saying is precisely congruent with the impression of anyone who's listened to him for 5 minutes.

Furthermore, if you look at CNBC's reporting, the lifeblood of guys like Sorkin is their exclusive access to high-level CEOs, so there's absolutely no incentive for them to misrepresent what CEOs are telling them .

CEOs at Trump meeting: Ex-president ‘meandering’ and ‘doesn’t know what he’s talking about’
KEY POINTS​
-Former President Donald Trump failed to impress everyone in a room full of top CEOs this week, multiple attendees told CNBC.​
-“Trump doesn’t know what he’s talking about,” said one CEO who was in the room.​
-Several CEOs “said that [Trump] was remarkably meandering, could not keep a straight thought [and] was all over the map,” Andrew Ross Sorkin, co-host of CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” reported.​
WASHINGTON — Former President Donald Trump failed to impress everyone in a room full of top CEOs Thursday at the Business Roundtable’s quarterly meeting, multiple attendees told CNBC.​
“Trump doesn’t know what he’s talking about,” said one CEO who was in the room, according to a person who heard the executive speaking. The CEO also said Trump did not explain how he planned to accomplish any of his policy proposals, that person said.​
Several CEOs “said that [Trump] was remarkably meandering, could not keep a straight thought [and] was all over the map,” CNBC’s Andrew Ross Sorkin reported Friday on CNBC’s “Squawk Box.”​
Among the topics on which Trump offered scant details were how he would reduce taxes and cut back on business regulations, according to two other people in the room who spoke to CNBC.​
Meeting attendees and people who spoke with them were granted anonymity in order to speak freely about the private event.​
The same CEOs who were struck by Trump’s lack of focus “walked into the meeting being Trump supporter-ish or thinking that they might be leaning that direction,” Sorkin reported.​
“These were people who I think might have been actually predisposed to [Trump but] actually walked out of the room less predisposed” to him, Sorkin said.​
“President Trump was warmly received by everyone in the room and was commended for his policy proposals on deregulation and tax cuts,” said Steven Cheung, communications director for the Trump presidential campaign.​
Trump’s energy in the meeting was also noticeably subdued, according to two people who were in the room. At no time during his remarks was there any noticeable applause for Trump, two attendees told CNBC.​
This was in contrast to Trump’s meeting earlier in the day with House Republicans on Capitol Hill. Attendees at that meeting told CNBC that the former president was animated and engaged and that Trump received several rounds of applause in separate meetings Thursday with both House and Senate Republicans.​
Cheung said there was applause for Trump during the Q-and-A section of the meeting, “where participants commended President Trump for his deregulatory and tax cut agenda.”​
Trump’s low-key energy at the Business Roundtable event could have been deliberate, one attendee told CNBC. Trump had wanted the CEO meeting to be “more like a business meeting than a speech,” the person said.​
“At one point, he discussed his plan to bring the corporate tax rate down from 21% to 20% … and was asked about why he had chosen 20%,” Sorkin said Friday on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.” “And he said, ‘Well, it’s a round number.’”​
“That unto itself had a number of CEOs shaking their heads,” Sorkin reported.​
In 2023, corporate income taxes contributed approximately $420 billion to federal revenues, according to the Congressional Budget Office.​
Wall Street has bristled over the past three years under President Joe Biden’s aggressive antitrust enforcement, pharmaceutical price caps and progressive tax policy.​
He probably did sound very trumpy. Hell, he was reading poetry to a large public audience on prime time today. I’ve read a couple different sources it’s just funny you get the full range of “bizarre” cnbc, a neutral price by CNN, to the typical fox a** kissing touting his relationship with Musk.

To be fair, there were what 80 people at the meeting. No doubt a couple (I’m not sure if we can correctly infer a bunch) speak negatively on Trump.

At any rate, I just find it humorous we can expect a tit for tat back and forth coverage of every Biden misstep and Trump flight of ideas from now to Election Day that will overshadow real issues (anybody comment on how busy the Supreme Court has been over the past few days?).

I’m sure the debates will be much of the same, but genuinely curious how us here will interpret the results. I’m pretty sure I’m sitting this election out, honestly I just want democrats to do something between now and November that makes me actually want to see them “win”, and it kills me that they aren’t/cant.
 
I’m sure the debates will be much of the same, but genuinely curious how us here will interpret the results. I’m pretty sure I’m sitting this election out, honestly I just want democrats to do something between now and November that makes me actually want to see them “win”, and it kills me that they aren’t/cant.

In my attempt to cut through some of the noise, I found reading the transcript of Zelenskyy and Biden's prepared remarks + the Q&A at the G7 worthwhile, both from a policy perspective and to get an actual idea of how Biden speaks during a lengthy event that includes impromptu responses.

 
In my attempt to cut through some of the noise, I found reading the transcript of Zelenskyy and Biden's prepared remarks + the Q&A at the G7 worthwhile, both from a policy perspective and to get an actual idea of how Biden speaks during a lengthy event that includes impromptu responses.

“In my attempt to cut through the noise, I will go straight to the White House source and ask them if Biden is senile. They said he wasn’t and I saw a transcript approved for release by the Biden team. Case closed. He’s sharp as a tack. All of the video evidence is false and your eyes have played tricks on you. This written evidence is far more convincing and is the gold standard to prove his mental acuity.
Furthermore, here are some quotes from CNBC and MSNBC commentators regarding how they interpreted discussions with a few business leaders pertaining to a recent meeting with Trump, which actually proves that he HAS lost his mental acuity. Checkmate.”
 
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“In my attempt to cut through the noise, I will go straight to the White House source and ask them if Biden is senile. They said he wasn’t and I saw a transcript approved for release by the Biden team. Case closed. He’s sharp as a tack.

Are you seriously arguing that an unedited transcript of a Biden speech and the followup Q&A is somehow ... biased propaganda?

All of the video evidence is false and your eyes have played tricks on you.

Funny you mention that: here's some "video evidence of Biden's senility" from just yesterday.

This written evidence is far more convincing and is the gold standard to prove his mental acuity.

What do you think a verbatim transcript of a speech and followup Q&A with the press is, if not written evidence?

You're trying really, really hard to avoid recognizing and confronting the truth here.
 
I don’t think the White House will publish something that will serve to embarrass the President. Do you think they would? No matter who is President, the job of their staff is to clean up anything that could serve to embarrass the President. It can be hard to do with public video, but super easy with the printed word. Just leave in a few stammers to imply it’s 100% unedited. If they don’t do that, they should be relieved of their duty.
 
I don’t think the White House will publish something that will serve to embarrass the President. Do you think they would? No matter who is President, the job of their staff is to clean up anything that could serve to embarrass the President. It can be hard to do with public video, but super easy with the printed word. Just leave in a few stammers to imply it’s 100% unedited. If they don’t do that, they should be relieved of their duty.

The entire thing is also on video you conspiratorial nut. And all the stammers are in the transcript.


"Plus, at the G7, we discussed our shared concern about countries like China re- — re- — who are supplying Russia with materials they need for their war machine..."

" It also been a test t- — for the world: Would we stand with Ukraine? "

" Now what we’ll do is — we’re each going to take two questions from American reporters and two — a qu- — a question each from two American reporters and a question each from two Ukrainian supporter- — reporters. "

" With regard to the plan, that is a — that is a plan in process now. We’re discussing with our Ukrainian friends exactly what it would be."
 
The entire thing is also on video you conspiratorial nut. And all the stammers are in the transcript.

"Plus, at the G7, we discussed our shared concern about countries like China re- — re- — who are supplying Russia with materials they need for their war machine..."​
" It also been a test t- — for the world: Would we stand with Ukraine? "​
" Now what we’ll do is — we’re each going to take two questions from American reporters and two — a qu- — a question each from two American reporters and a question each from two Ukrainian supporter- — reporters. "​
" With regard to the plan, that is a — that is a plan in process now. We’re discussing with our Ukrainian friends exactly what it would be."​
You have the video, but you posted the written transcript?
 
You have the video, but you posted the written transcript?

Speaking as someone who consumes more written media than visual, I appreciate transcript links more.

 
You have the video, but you posted the written transcript?
Go to 15:25. Does he sound old? Yes. Does he sound like someone who is unable to
think clearly and communicate effectively? Absolutely not. Compare this with Trump, who sounds more detached from reality almost daily. I get it , you don’t like Biden, you’re not voting him. But the head in the sand approach by intelligent, educated Trump voters, who cannot or will not face the fact that Biden is in full command of his presidency lays bare something fundamental; support for Trump is not, nor has it ever been, about policy or ideas or what is best for the country. It’s simply about making the liberals cry. And that is tragically sad.
 
These posts aren't intended to change your mind. Most of you voting for Biden have made your decision: Trump is evil, decadent, narcissistic and dangerous to the nation. Some of us are making an attempt to explain to you why this election will be close despite Trump as the GOP nominee. Perhaps, if the moderates of Democrat party had taken these issues seriously the election wouldn't be close. This administration has been anything but "moderate" in many of its policies. Inflation, the border and foreign policy will be the reasons Biden loses the election (if he does indeed lose).


The Trump campaign says it hauled in $141 million last month, with nearly 38 percent arriving after the May 30 verdict.
Your personal assessment about Trump ideally should not be about how popular he is with the ultra wealthy, or just how popular he is writ large. You don’t need to explain that to us, we understand perfectly why Trump has appeal to many voters.

And no offense, I just don’t believe you when you say had Biden had been tougher on your pet issues that maybe he would garnered more votes. It’s easy to hide behind “the issues”. Even had Biden done everything to your perfect satisfaction, there’s no question that this would still be a close election, and that you’d still vote for Trump.

Yes, all of us rationalization machines, and I I include myself, are justifying our choices on impulses that are largely preconscious, and have little to do with the issues. It’s all about the feels. However, I think it’s still important to have these debates. Like you said, neither of us are going to change each others minds. On the other hand, there are plenty of people reading these exchanges that might be influenced by them in ways we prefer.
 
Go to 15:25. Does he sound old? Yes. Does he sound like someone who is unable to
think clearly and communicate effectively? Absolutely not. Compare this with Trump, who sounds more detached from reality almost daily. I get it , you don’t like Biden, you’re not voting him. But the head in the sand approach by intelligent, educated Trump voters, who cannot or will not face the fact that Biden is in full command of his presidency lays bare something fundamental; support for Trump is not, nor has it ever been, about policy or ideas or what is best for the country. It’s simply about making the liberals cry. And that is tragically sad.
See this is the problem I have. You are in denial if you think Biden is in full command of his presidency as much as the Trump supporters that think he’s the second coming of Christ.
 
Your personal assessment about Trump ideally should not be about how popular he is with the ultra wealthy, or just how popular he is writ large. You don’t need to explain that to us, we understand perfectly why Trump has appeal to many voters.

And no offense, I just don’t believe you when you say had Biden had been tougher on your pet issues that maybe he would garnered more votes. It’s easy to hide behind “the issues”. Even had Biden done everything to your perfect satisfaction, there’s no question that this would still be a close election, and that you’d still vote for Trump.

Yes, all of us rationalization machines, and I I include myself, are justifying our choices on impulses that are largely preconscious, and have little to do with the issues. It’s all about the feels. However, I think it’s still important to have these debates. Like you said, neither of us are going to change each others minds. On the other hand, there are plenty of people reading these exchanges that might be influenced by them in ways we prefer.
There are very few or no one the fence voters (among my group of people) that I am aware of.

We have two old candidates Trump was new in 2016. He’s not new now. Old not meaning age but old ideas.

So we have two old candidates with two old agendas. It’s the worst of all worlds for the public to select from

The fact that Nikki Haley and Ron desantis posed no threat to Trump. And the fact that the democrats had no one new in 2019 besides recycled Biden shows how bad American politics has gotten.

Trump won in 2016 because he was new on the scene vs old Hillary politics.
 
See this is the problem I have. You are in denial if you think Biden is in full command of his presidency as much as the Trump supporters that think he’s the second coming of Christ.
I’m not in denial at all. I just think don’t he’s senile or demented. Is he slower when he speaks, of course, he sounds like my dad. Would I prefer a younger, more energetic candidate? Yes. But stuff I’m hearing from many conservatives is that he is practically brain dead, can’t think clearly, can’t make decisions and is one step removed from a nursing home. None of that is true, and you know that.
 
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There are very few or no one the fence voters (among my group of people) that I am aware of.

We have two old candidates Trump was new in 2016. He’s not new now. Old not meaning age but old ideas.

So we have two old candidates with two old agendas. It’s the worst of all worlds for the public to select from

The fact that Nikki Haley and Ron desantis posed no threat to Trump. And the fact that the democrats had no one new in 2019 besides recycled Biden shows how bad American politics has gotten.

Trump won in 2016 because he was new on the scene vs old Hillary politics.
I actually agree with all of that. It’s just that a repeat Trump presidency is going to be really bad. To paraphrase former Republican David Frum, the velociraptors know how to work the doorknobs. The Steve Bannons and Michael Flynn’s of the world are just a taste of what’s to come if he wins, this country is going to look very different, likely in ways you eventually will not like.
 
I’m not in denial at all. I just think don’t he’s senile or demented. Is he slower when he speaks, of course, he sounds like my dad. Would I prefer a younger, more energetic candidate? Yes. But stuff I’m hearing from many conservatives is that he is practically brain dead, can’t think clearly, can’t make decisions and is one step removed from a nursing home. None of that is true, and you know that.
It is true. He’s 81 years old with limited mobility and obvious cognitive decline. You want me to be impressed he didn’t f up a meeting? He’s one step (or fall) removed from the graveyard. Trump isn’t far off. But man, trying to make Biden look like the more physically capable choice (lunacy aside) is a losing strategy.
 
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