Big dreams.

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
You're so right. im just incredibly bitter because i have failed throughout my whole life. i apologize.

Yes, our apologies. We should have never dared tell anyone they need a high gpa and a high MCAT, let alone do EC's in order to be competitive. We are all very sorry.

Members don't see this ad.
 
In general, I find those type of people annoying.

While I'm sure this will be construed as me insulting someone's sweet mother who I don't know and will never know, I can assure you that I'm not, just an observation.

Oh, come on, if you went the the #1 program in your field and you were interviewing people to go to that program, if they had the name wrong you'd throw their application into the trash too.
 
I need to say a couple of things:

Stop arguing about petty sh it. No one's crushing anyone's dreams.

I'm young, I'm 18, and I'm an idealist. But don't treat me like a statistic. I posted this thread to get constructive information and advice on how to reach that goal. I KNOW that it will be difficult. It's hard as hell to just be a fu<king doctor, regardless of where you're from. My close friend went through the chaos of pre-med courses only to end up in the Caribbean, but he still gets the utmost respect from me because he is a compassionate doctor and person. The doctor I work for went to Dartmouth, Columbia, Harvard, Emory, and NYU and is a MENSA member, but he's a dick to people. I appreciate everyone's advice, but don't lecture me on values. Many of you are my elders and I respect you unconditionally for that, but please give me a little more respect.

Something that I believe is that with enough preparation and determination you'll be able to reach any goal, it's just a matter of how much you put in to get something out of it. This is something I'm willing to do. Before you write me off as being cliche, I just have to say that most stuff that's cliche is usually correct, because it's really that simple at its essence. Or at least, I believe it is.

I'm not someone who is missing out on the college experience because I live in the library. I'm very satisfied with my social life, and trust me... I know how to have fun. But too much fun is something I was never satisfied with, I need to balance it with meaningful work.

I understand that I can be a great doctor regardless of where I'm from. Getting into NYU was an accomplishment for me, because I experienced a lot in high school but the conclusion I came across was that if I had applied myself earlier [I had a 70% GPA all throughout HS, until I started to try and managed 96% and 98% in my last two years] I don't know what my potential is, and I need to test it out. I don't get stressed easily, and I exercise the utmost balance in my life to make sure I have ample time for EVERYTHING, not just school.

Who knows what the next couple of years will bring. But why live in fear of how difficult it will all be?

Again, I appreciate constructive advice that I can use to gain a stronger perspective that will encourage me to shoot for such a high goal. The higher you goals are, the more chances you have at the lower ones. That's a better way of looking at it, and that's how I see it. No amount of seniority will change my innate views, so it's a waste to discuss my inner drive.

Thank you, nontradmed, you helped me realize that I should never forget academics - my top priority. Sometimes I get too caught up in the other stuff, heh.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Something that I believe is that with enough preparation and determination you'll be able to reach any goal, it's just a matter of how much you put in to get something out of it. This is something I'm willing to do. Before you write me off as being cliche, I just have to say that most stuff that's cliche is usually correct, because it's really that simple at its essence. Or at least, I believe it is.

Who knows what the next couple of years will bring. But why live in fear of how difficult it will all be?

All right.

There seems to be a major problem in distinguishing between DEFEATISM and REALISM. Defeatism is no good in this process. Realism, however, will help you in applying to med school, and it will also help you when you're actually IN med school.

Realistically speaking, looking so far ahead to distant goals makes it easy to trip over your own feet. (Learned this from personal experience during sophomore year of undergrad.) Realistically, a few years from now, the advice that we give you may be moot, because there are so many applicants pouring into med schools nowadays. (Again, not being defeatist, just being a realist - I don't go to a top tier school, and the # of applicants to our school jumped ~15% this year.) And, realistically, you may wake up one morning and realize that, hey, being a doctor is just not for you.

What irritates me is when you try to share something that you learned out of personal experience, and people slam you for being "pessimistic." Did it ever occur to you that we're not defeatist, but, rather, we might be trying to save people from repeating the same mistakes that we made??

OP: Just take everything one step at a time, and try to do your very best at each step. At this extremely early stage in the game, that's all that anyone can really tell you. In a few years, work on your essay writing and interviewing skills. Those are also very important. Good luck.
 
Are you gay and/or a JAP? If you are not, you should be--they are prerequisites these days.
 
wow that was a very nice post nontrad, very insightful :). If you don't mind me asking, where did you go for engineering/undergrad?
 
I'm 18. Freshman at NYU. First semester so far, 3.67. I will most likely major in Economics, and I'm pre-med also. I already have an internship at one of the best laser eye surgeons in the country, and am on a study for oxygenated eye drops. I am also employed at an AIDS clinic, with one of the best AIDS doctors in the country. I am doing incredible at both of these jobs, and they expect a lot from me in the upcoming years [as do I.]

While I understand that I'm still a baby, essentially, and that I have no idea what I'm getting myself into in terms of workload, pressure, stress, etc. I'm still at a point where I can potentially be something great. So why not have lofty goals?

This is a thread not about medical school, I know the basics of that. This is a thread about (not to offend anyone) the best medical schools in the country.

I am open to all sorts of advice, and will be a good, sponge-like pupil to my wiser colleagues on this forum. How can I get into:

Harvard
John's Hopkins
Stanford
Columbia

Thank you, and I appreciate all that can be said.

Your focuses are messed up. Grades first... EC's second. Until you have a
3.8+ tone down on all that extra jazz.
 
Something that I believe is that with enough preparation and determination you'll be able to reach any goal, it's just a matter of how much you put in to get something out of it.

You will learn that in this process, preparation and determination gets you about 75% of the way to such goals, the other 25% often comes from luck, other people's perceptions of whether you are a "good fit" and the like. So no, you cannot pick 4 schools and make them targets and expect realistically that you will end up in one of them four years later, just because you think you should be able to get to any goal. This is the naivety of youth speaking, not good sense. Rather, you should set a target to do your absolute best, get good grades, high scores, good ECs, and then see where that gets you. Maybe you will luck out. Maybe you won't. But none of this "able to reach any goal" if I just work for it garbage. Many thousands of people show up to college with this attitude and you don't see that many of them at Harvard.
 
I'm 18. Freshman at NYU. First semester so far, 3.67. I will most likely major in Economics, and I'm pre-med also. I already have an internship at one of the best laser eye surgeons in the country, and am on a study for oxygenated eye drops. I am also employed at an AIDS clinic, with one of the best AIDS doctors in the country. I am doing incredible at both of these jobs, and they expect a lot from me in the upcoming years [as do I.]

While I understand that I'm still a baby, essentially, and that I have no idea what I'm getting myself into in terms of workload, pressure, stress, etc. I'm still at a point where I can potentially be something great. So why not have lofty goals?

This is a thread not about medical school, I know the basics of that. This is a thread about (not to offend anyone) the best medical schools in the country.

I am open to all sorts of advice, and will be a good, sponge-like pupil to my wiser colleagues on this forum. How can I get into:

Harvard
John's Hopkins
Stanford
Columbia

Thank you, and I appreciate all that can be said.

Well, it isn't John's Hopkins but rather Johns Hopkins :laugh:
By Columbia, I think you are referring or trying to refer to Columbia U. College of Physicians and Surgeons....

I went to University of Pennsylvania, I believe it's among the top 10 best medical research schools.
you can check out the top 10 medical schools below
http://www.studentdoc.com/top-10-medical-schools.html

I understand that you are still young, at 18 your best bet is to continue on getting good grades, volunteer more and have a ton of extra-c activities involving hospitals etc., take the MCAT when you are ready and we'll go from there :)
 
There is no magic formula for getting into any medical school . . . your stats could look fabulous on paper but you could bomb the interview and never get in. All you can do is be the best that you can be. Get the best grades you can get, be an interesting person (try to have some unique activity that will make you interesting other than all the clinical/research crap that every premed has), get clinical experience, do some research, get the best MCAT score you can get, start writing your amcas essay and getting your reccomendation letters in order a year ahead of when you plan on submitting your amcas, submit your amcas as soon as you are allowed, don't only apply to the top 10 schools (aka have some humility), return your secondaries ASAP, don't come off as a homicidal maniac during your interview . .. and have some luck. Beyond all this realize that most freshman who state that they are premed will not be by the time that they reach their junior year, . . . don't be soo focused on being a premed that if it doesn't work out for you in the end you regret some of the choices you made. Major in something that would be useful towards pursuing a backup career, not something that you think makes you a better premed, etc. Its great to have dreams but its also good to acknowledge reality.
:thumbup:
 
Sorry. I've just been following this thread and I thought to myself, "Hey, I want to contribute something." Then I realized the OP would have no use for me, since Yale rejected me post-interview, and I only go to some second-rate state med school. So I've just been interjecting the stupid upward trend joke from time to time.

If I were feeling especially mean, I'd quote my GPA/MCAT/research/ECs to the OP, and point out that I "only" go to my state school and that the Ivy's didn't want me. But hey, why kill some poor kid's dream, right? :D

I'll stop. Everyone's advice to him is very good.

Yeah, cut it out right meow.
 
I went to University of Pennsylvania, I believe it's among the top 10 best medical research schools.
you can check out the top 10 medical schools below
http://www.studentdoc.com/top-10-medical-schools.html

I think it is worth mentioning that these statistics are based solely on federal grant money and polling of deans across the country. I think it is more important to just think of it on a tier 1,2, and 3 scale... There are too many good schools out there to label a solidified 'top10'
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Yeah, cut it out right meow.

Do I look like a cat to you boy? Am I jumpin' around all nimbly bimbly from tree to tree? Am I drinking milk from a saucer? DO YOU SEE ME EATING MICE?
 
What is Hopkins #1 in these days anyway? I mean, other than name recognition.

Public health. The Bloomberg School of Public Health is top-notch.

Not that this contributes to the thread in any way.
 
OP -

Here is my 2 cents.
From your posts it sounds like are determined to get the most out of yourself, "be the best that you can be".

This is admirable, but you have to realize that this is not what makes a good doctor. What I mean is that a good doctor should not be primarily concerned about his/her self.

I think that you should first make it your priority to find out if you are willing to enter a such a profession of service. If you are, pursue your studies in the spirit of service, not in the spirit of self-betterment. This attitude will shine through on your interviews and give you a chance to land admission at a top school if all the other peices are in place (good mcat, gpa, recs, ECs, clinical exp, research, etc.)
 
The doctor I work for went to Dartmouth, Columbia, Harvard, Emory, and NYU and is a MENSA member, but he's a dick to people.

Damn... I would be a dick too if I had to go to 5 med schools just to get an MD :smuggrin:
 
In addition, I went to a top 20 international (including US) school so I didn't really have the option of majoring in basketweaving and calling myself pre-med because I took a few classes in basic sciences and spread them over four years. Suck on that.

Sort of confused by this comment. Are you implying that majoring in economics at NYU is somehow like majoring in basketweaving at some oh so inferior non top 20 school?

Bleh, I didn't major in basketweaving, but I didn't major in science either. I sure as hell don't regret it and don't feel like I'm an inferior applicant because I "took a few classes in basic sciences and spread them over four years." If you decided to take a harder path, that's your own problem. No need for bitterness.
 
Here is some legit advice if you want to know what you need to do in order to get into a top 10 school.

Your GPA should be 3.8 or more. 3.7 would give you a shot but you would need a monster MCAT (36 or 37+). You need at least a 34 MCAT to have a decent chance. Of course you will have a chance if you score lower but I am trying to say what will give you a good shot at it. It is important to do research if you want to go to a top medical school. It seems like you are involved in some big projects which is good, however, it is pretty important to get your name on a paper. First author would be amazing but it doesn't necessarily have to be. It would be helpful if you got to present a poster or something like that at a conference. Be involved in community service volunteer activities and participate in it consistently. Try to find something that you can do once a week for a few hours and keep it going for a few years. Definitely do some doctor shadowing. Since you work for a doctor try to see if he will let you shadow him every month or so. Do some sort of clinical volunteering like at a childrens hospital or an underpriviliged free clinic. Get some good recommendations from people that actually know you. Recommendations from a professor whose class you got an A in will only be good if the professor actually knows you well. It is useless if the class was large. Get the doctors you do research for to write recommendations for you either when it gets closer to applying or before you leave their lab. Someone said earlier not to major in Econ but that isn't true. Major in whatever you want, just make sure you get good grades. You also need to make sure you can get a few recommendations from science professors.

Then win some awards within your Econ department at NYU and adopt a kid in Somalia for the low price of 79 cents a day and you should be good.
 
Well, i'm definitely an old geezer at the ripe old age of 30. But my advice is to enjoy your college experience and have some friggin fun while you can. Sure, the advice that people have given here is good, keep up your grades, participate in good EC's, think long and hard about why you want to be a physician, maybe do some research, ..... but also go out with friends, throw a few parties, take some road trips, skip class due to a hang over once in a while, you know .... live like your in college. Your only there once, so make it count in as many ways as you can. It always helps to have good social skills and a sense of confidence about you when you get to those interviews. But while you are doing all this, make sure you get plenty of good advice at each step along the way in helping you to pass each milestone and achieve everything you need to achieve for your med school applications. :thumbup: :cool:
 
ah, youthful resilience...it reminds me of a time when i was also of the "i'm going to join 1000 clubs and study super hard and save the world" mentality. :D it's funny how college takes that and crushes it, sucking the life and energy out of you, leaving only a shell of that brighty, chirpy 18 year old that once was. these days, all i can think about is how amazing sleep is. my passion and goal? how to sleep more. in fact, the ONE thing i know i will take with me from college is how to sleep in ANY position. in fact, i don't even have to prop my head up anymore--my neck muscles have learned how to not twitch and relax during sleep, so i literally just close my eyes and fall asleep sitting upright. this is great during flights, but sucks at 830am in the morning...

sorry for the rambling; best of luck OP!
 
Hah. Thanks a lot, people. I do definitely have a superman attitude, and at times I seem to promise a lot of things I end up doing in an asinine way. Last night I promised my co-worker that I'd order something for her on eBay that she really wanted, bam, forgot and it's already bought. I called my dad at 12:30AM to find my PIN number for the FAFSA which is due today. I'm definitely putting a lot on my palate, a little too much for me to taste all at once.

I'm learning a lot this year. Mainly, how to draw the line between work and play. Last semester was a joke basically, but I still didn't do as well as I could've done. I also had three day weekends which I don't have anymore, and I CANNOT show up hungover for chem lab on Friday mornings anymore because I just can't do anything that way.

Overall what I want to do is to gain the fullest experience from college. I appreciate the advice everyone has given, both those that encourage and those that admonish.
 
You will learn that in this process, preparation and determination gets you about 75% of the way to such goals, the other 25% often comes from luck, other people's perceptions of whether you are a "good fit" and the like. So no, you cannot pick 4 schools and make them targets and expect realistically that you will end up in one of them four years later, just because you think you should be able to get to any goal. This is the naivety of youth speaking, not good sense. Rather, you should set a target to do your absolute best, get good grades, high scores, good ECs, and then see where that gets you. Maybe you will luck out. Maybe you won't. But none of this "able to reach any goal" if I just work for it garbage. Many thousands of people show up to college with this attitude and you don't see that many of them at Harvard.

This is the best advice ever. :love:
 
Sort of confused by this comment. Are you implying that majoring in economics at NYU is somehow like majoring in basketweaving at some oh so inferior non top 20 school?

Bleh, I didn't major in basketweaving, but I didn't major in science either. I sure as hell don't regret it and don't feel like I'm an inferior applicant because I "took a few classes in basic sciences and spread them over four years." If you decided to take a harder path, that's your own problem. No need for bitterness.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Yes, I'm mildly bitter, but that's because I never had that "college experience" that so many americans have and complain about incessantly. I just was responding to someone telling me I was an idiot or something like that. Read back in the posts. I just told the OP to slow down and I got beat down for it, so then I took a stab at him...
 
What is Hopkins #1 in these days anyway? I mean, other than name recognition.

Public health. The Bloomberg School of Public Health is top-notch.

Not that this contributes to the thread in any way.

Don't forget Lacrosse...

did anybody here have fun in college, BTW?
 
I'm 18. Freshman at NYU. First semester so far, 3.67. I will most likely major in Economics, and I'm pre-med also. I already have an internship at one of the best laser eye surgeons in the country, and am on a study for oxygenated eye drops. I am also employed at an AIDS clinic, with one of the best AIDS doctors in the country. I am doing incredible at both of these jobs, and they expect a lot from me in the upcoming years [as do I.]

While I understand that I'm still a baby, essentially, and that I have no idea what I'm getting myself into in terms of workload, pressure, stress, etc. I'm still at a point where I can potentially be something great. So why not have lofty goals?

This is a thread not about medical school, I know the basics of that. This is a thread about (not to offend anyone) the best medical schools in the country.

I am open to all sorts of advice, and will be a good, sponge-like pupil to my wiser colleagues on this forum. How can I get into:

Harvard
John's Hopkins
Stanford
Columbia

Thank you, and I appreciate all that can be said.

I'm sick of this crap. You're obviously interested in medicine and biology. Don't cop out and major in econ. Sure, it probably has no effect on your chances, but have a little self respect.
 
here is the generic advice you are looking for: 1) you need to get good grades. Aim for a 4.0 but realize that a 3.6 may be as high as you can get. 2) you need to do well on the MCAT (30+). 3) you need to get clinical experience (volunteering and shadow)

here is the real advice: id advise that you don't just take an econ major at NYU because NYU is supposedly good for business and econ degrees (of course if you have a REAL desire to learn econ then stay, just be aware that premed/econ combo will be hard). also, you don't have to do research and crap with really prestigious docs. in fact, i find that its better to get LOR's and interact with lesser known professors and doctors because they are more humble and much more personable (of course im generalizing here). This same concept goes for your "prospective" list of med schools.
 
If you are, pursue your studies in the spirit of service, not in the spirit of self-betterment.

Actually, the spirit of self-betterment is a very important spirit to have. Although not necessarily essential prior to medical school, once you begin your training, it's important to engage in "self-betterment" as much as possible in order to be able to provide the best quality care for your patients.

I would argue that the spirit of service and the spirit of self-betterment go hand in hand. The desire to serve puts the effort expended in the desire to better oneself to good use.

For example, he can want to serve people as a doctor all he wants, but if he doesn't do the best he possibly can now, he may never receive that opportunity. A delicate balance ensues:)
 
Void,

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt because you don't come off as arrogant like the previous poster who posted a similar thread.

So here's what I'm going to tell you:

1. If you truly want to get in the best school possible study your butt off to do well in your classes and get an above average GPA. Is it easy? No. Is it doable? yes with hard work.

2. Repeat number one for the MCAT and learn your prereqs well while you are in class so studying for the MCAT won't be as difficult. If English isn't your first language and you aren't an avid reader and bad at verbal I suggest spending time in some philosophy and logic classes as well as doing outside reading and learning better critical reading skills from now on so you'll do well down the road. But keep in mind that getting a great MCAT score will take lots of hard work and if you are a bad standardized test taker you are fighting and uphill battle. I'm going to assume getting in NYU that you are good at timed tests.

3. Continue with the ECs you said you started out doing and keep committed to your interests.

4. Know that top schools, especially Harvard, is big on things that make you stand out. They get a lot of 4.0 and 35+ students. They get a lot of students with publications and who did clinical work abroad and who have tons of volunteer experience. What makes them stand out?? something they've accomplished in their life that is not like your typical applicant. I.e. they may have been on broadway or may have played an instrument for several years and used their talents to perform professionally. They may have started their own nonprofit organization. Things of this nature.

5. The most important thing I'll say now...while you are doing other things keep in mind to be true to yourself. Have fun because college will come and go faster then you realize. Sometimes I feel like it was only yesterday that my college career started and now its been several years. College isn't like highschool and gradeschool. Time flies faster then you realize and before you know it will be gone and you'll wonder what you missed out on if you don't try to spend some time having fun and exploring things that interest you. College also gives you your only shot to take courses that interest you that aren't medically related but give you the opportunity to explore other careers and other things that interest you so major in something you like and keep an open mind.

One final note, go into college with this work hard ethic and follow it through and through and you'll have a lot going for you, but note that getting into a place like HMS, Hopkins, etc, are not easy. Give it your all but if you don't get a 4.0 and 40 and don't get into harvard but instead say get a 3.8 and 32 and get into somewhere else that may not be a top tier be proud of yourself for making it that far and having the good fortune of getting somewhere in the states.

As you grow older the other thing I will advise you think about is to look at a school beyond its stature and see it for what it has to offer as a whole. You'll find different schools have different ways of getting the same information across. The curricula of the school is different from program to program. For instance some will use problem based learning while others will use a more traditional approach. Some may do molecular medicine, anatomy, and some other courses together while others will do one portion of that as a separate block and then dive into the other portion as a different block. For instance, my school's med school does biochem as a 10 week block and then dives into anatomy as a 5 month block. On the other hand, other schools I know do both at the same time from day one.

These are the little things you will come to think about along with the costs which are very high unless you gain a scholarship.

Keep an open mind, enjoy your college career, and work hard regardless of what you end up doing whether its medicine or something else.
 
damn, so singing on Broadway really makes me a better doc? hmm
 
So where's Penn on this list? And Duke, and UCSF and WashU?

If you're going to ask about the top schools, do your research and don't just go by the name. Unless that's all you want...
 
damn, so singing on Broadway really makes me a better doc? hmm

That's assuming the person who goes to HMS is a better doc. not always the case. ;)

I know you are probably messing around with me cuz of the smily face, but I'm just going to reiterate it anyways.

HMS and those kind of schools get people with stellar applications in the more medically and scientific sense at a rate of a dime a dozen if not more. But they want people who are diverse all around and educated in other things besides medicine. They need something to distinguish applicants and generally when you have the creme de la creme it comes down to those non medical things that make a difference.
 
I'm sick of this crap. You're obviously interested in medicine and biology. Don't cop out and major in econ. Sure, it probably has no effect on your chances, but have a little self respect.


You are an idiot. People can have multiple interests, and real economics is far from a cop-out. I get a little testy when people say the type of shi% that you just blew out your a**. Seriously, get over your biology major.

edit- It pains me to see people saying that an economics major is the same as a business major. A real math-based economics program is very different than an accounting, managerial, finance major. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't open your mouth.
 
You are an idiot. People can have multiple interests, and real economics is far from a cop-out. I get a little testy when people say the type of shi% that you just blew out your a**.

Roger that, rubber ducky. I was a bio major for all of ... one or two semesters.

Switched to psychology.

I did it because I had no interest in many of the courses required for biology majors, as well as the fact that psychology is a genuine interest to me.
 
OP where you get into residency is more important than where you go to med school. MD = medical degree it seems like your too good for any school that is not top 10. Dishing on Columbia are you crazy? NYU is good keep your grades up and get some life experience your soooo young right now. Good Luck.
 
Yeah, unfortunately everything feeds into the next step. Good med schools typically produce residents at more prestigious programs, especially for those "middle-of-the-road" students. A 220 Step 1 coming out of Harvard still has a shot on the ROAD specialties. The same score out of Podunk State can look forward to a rewarding career in an FP clinic.

I'm also not sure why you would say that "where you get into residency" is important at all. To who? It may matter if you're looking for a Gyn-Onc or Peds Surg fellowship, but other than that it doesn't mean jack.

Disagree. The top Step 1 scorers typically become the residents at the more prestigious programs, and so your individual efforts outweight you med school pedigree big time. It matters, but not as much as folks on SDN would like to think. If you look at the lists of residents at top programs, you will see representatives from all ranges of med schools. If you are at the bottom of the class then sure, you are better off at the bottom of a top 10 than a Podunk, but either way you are probably going to be doing primary care, psych or one of the other non-number driven specialties someplace, unless you get really lucky (most schools, even at the top, have a low scorer or two getting below 220, BTW).

I also would suggest that where you did your residency is still important for the non-competitive fields because folks in private practice partnerships like to hire brand names, so your credentials can get you better interviews.
 
Top