Big problem - No GPA!!

[Igni Fera]

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I went to UCSC back in the days before letter grades. I only have Narrative Evaluations that go along with P/F grades. Letter grades were only available for some of the classes I took, and became mandatory the year after I graduated. Even though I was a Bio undergrad, I was not planning on med school at the time, so I did not consider this a big deal. Now, I AM FREAKING OUT! I cannot find any info or posts from people that were/are in the same situation... Would love feedback from anyone with experience dealing with this - from both the applicant and the admissions side of things.

 

[Hari Kari]

How long ago did you graduate? Depending on the school, your pre-reqs might have "expired", in which case, you'd have to retake them. Your best course of action would be to call schools that you are interested in, and discuss this with them.

Good luck.

 

[Igni Fera]

I started in 1994 and graduated in 2000. Most of my pre-reqs were completed by 1997, and upper division in 98-99. I doubled with Env'l Studies, and took some time off as well. I am looking at some post-bacc programs to refresh my science courses with upper division classes and to establish a GPA, but....well...y'know.

How long ago did you graduate? Depending on the school, your pre-reqs might have "expired", in which case, you'd have to retake them. Your best course of action would be to call schools that you are interested in, and discuss this with them.

Good luck.

 

[njbmd]

I went to UCSC back in the days before letter grades. I only have Narrative Evaluations that go along with P/F grades. Letter grades were only available for some of the classes I took, and became mandatory the year after I graduated. Even though I was a Bio undergrad, I was not planning on med school at the time, so I did not consider this a big deal. Now, I AM FREAKING OUT! I cannot find any info or posts from people that were/are in the same situation... Would love feedback from anyone with experience dealing with this - from both the applicant and the admissions side of things.

Hi there,
Contact the medical schools that you intend to apply to and find out what they would expect you to do in this situation. They are going to be the best source of information for you. Different schools may have different ways of handling your situation so find out.

You may also want to contact the AMCAS too.

njbmd 🙂

 

[MollyMalone]

I went to UCSC back in the days before letter grades. I only have Narrative Evaluations that go along with P/F grades. Letter grades were only available for some of the classes I took, and became mandatory the year after I graduated. Even though I was a Bio undergrad, I was not planning on med school at the time, so I did not consider this a big deal. Now, I AM FREAKING OUT! I cannot find any info or posts from people that were/are in the same situation... Would love feedback from anyone with experience dealing with this - from both the applicant and the admissions side of things.

You should totally PM QofQuimica about this... she was in a similar situation.

 

[mshheaddoc]

You should totally PM QofQuimica about this... she was in a similar situation.

Agreed, I'm sure next time she is on she will see this thread and post her experiences. From what I gathered her grades were met with mixed reviews, but then again she also has a PhD in organic chemistry under her belt and an exeptional MCAT score of 40+. Some schools were receptive of her lack of undergrad GPA and others really didn't care, even WITH the anamoly of an MCAT score 😉

I would contact all the schools you plan on attending to talk to them.

 

[Igni Fera]

Thanks for the lead. I will try to look her up. I have been thinking that a post-bacc certificate would be the answer, but now I am thinking that a full masters (or more) may be a better route.

Agreed, I'm sure next time she is on she will see this thread and post her experiences. From what I gathered her grades were met with mixed reviews, but then again she also has a PhD in organic chemistry under her belt and an exeptional MCAT score of 40+. Some schools were receptive of her lack of undergrad GPA and others really didn't care, even WITH the anamoly of an MCAT score 😉

I would contact all the schools you plan on attending to talk to them.

 

[QofQuimica]

I went to UCSC back in the days before letter grades. I only have Narrative Evaluations that go along with P/F grades. Letter grades were only available for some of the classes I took, and became mandatory the year after I graduated. Even though I was a Bio undergrad, I was not planning on med school at the time, so I did not consider this a big deal. Now, I AM FREAKING OUT! I cannot find any info or posts from people that were/are in the same situation... Would love feedback from anyone with experience dealing with this - from both the applicant and the admissions side of things.

Hi Igni,

Don't panic, because it is definitely possible to get into med school with P/F grades if the rest of your app is good. I was accepted to several schools and also offered scholarships at some.

Your situation sounds pretty similar to mine. I went to a small liberal arts college with no grades, and all of my pre-reqs are also graded P/F w/ NEs. I will caution you that some schools are definitely more "ok" with this than others. If you do well on the MCAT, that will really help. Since this is the only number that the schools have to look at, it is extra important for you to do well on the MCAT. Like njbmd suggested, it is also a good idea to call the schools where you want to apply and explain your situation to them. I'm in FL, so I didn't apply to any CA schools. But I did call every school that I wanted to apply to and asked them whether I had a chance. Most told me that they'd want to see an excellent MCAT score (in the 30s).

It is probably also a good idea to get some grades like you were thinking of doing; I went to grad school, so I have several years of grades from grad school. I did not do a post-bac. This may have hurt me at some schools. One other thing you can do is to photocopy your NEs and send them to the schools. I did this for every pre-med pre-req course and sent them to every school along with a one-page explanation of my undergrad program. It was a huge pain in the rear, but I think it was helpful. Finally, I suggest that you apply to a lot of schools, and that you pick schools judiciously using the MSAR. Check their mission statements, and avoid schools whose missions don't match your career goals. I applied to 22 schools, which might have been overkill, but definitely don't only apply to just half a dozen. Some schools may not want to send you a secondary because of your lack of GPA; I was ultimately able to get most of the schools to waive their minimum GPA requirements and send me the secondary.

If you have any more questions about applying sans grades, feel free to PM me. Good luck w/ your apps, and be prepared for a bumpy ride.... 😛

 

[notdeadyet]

You're not alone, Igni. I went to UCSC as well back in the narrative eval only days. You might check in with UCSC itself in the student advising group; they claim to have a pretty good med school placement rate, so they might have some advice.

There are a few other colleges out there with either narrative evals or P/F coursework (I beleive Reed is one), so you're not alone.

I too am hoping to nail the MCAT. I'm also taking a post-bac, but by necessity for the prereqs, not just to get some grades on my transcript.

 

[medhacker]

About 40% of my grades are P/F

It can be done, best wishes! 👍

 

[Igni Fera]

Thanks Q for the insight. I just finished reading the "Grad School GPA?" thread and its really helpful to know that UG gpa is weighted more than grad school. So going through a post-bacc program may be a better option than grad school for me, especially since I can start the ones at CSULA or SFSU this fall. I wouldn't be able to start most grad schools until fall 2007 at this point.

Here's another question...

I did pretty well in most of my science pre-reqs. My narrative evals give a good indication of the circumstances when I did not. However, some classes like Physics (ugh...i hate physics...put it off til my last two quarters and eeked my way through) were not so hot. With no GPA, will they frown on my not-so-good NEs? Should I retake those classes? Do they really use the NEs in their decision at all, or is it all about the MCAT at that point?

The next question is not a NE related question, but I need some advice on pre-reqs too...

I only took one quarter of O-Chem and one quarter of BioChem, instead of the full series of O-Chem. I aced O-Chem (loved it!) and did okay in BioChem...I see that some schools, even Harvard, are okay with the combo. Should I start over, though, and retake a full series of O-Chem? Or - the post-bacc program I am looking at at CSULA has a 3 quarter BioChem series (but no O-Chem series!)...do you think that would shore up any O-Chem requirements?

My Bio UG degree allowed me bypass college math classes altogether by taking a course in BioStatistics (which was a requirement for Env's Studies anyway) and a Computer Systems class. Should I take a calculus series, just in case? I know many schools want the math in there too, though not all...

All of my pre-reqs were done quite some time ago...do they "expire" as someone said earlier in this thread?

Thanks for any advice ya'll throw my way... 😉

 

[relentless11]

I only took one quarter of O-Chem and one quarter of BioChem, instead of the full series of O-Chem. I aced O-Chem (loved it!) and did okay in BioChem...I see that some schools, even Harvard, are okay with the combo. Should I start over, though, and retake a full series of O-Chem? Or - the post-bacc program I am looking at at CSULA has a 3 quarter BioChem series (but no O-Chem series!)...do you think that would shore up any O-Chem requirements?

My Bio UG degree allowed me bypass college math classes altogether by taking a course in BioStatistics (which was a requirement for Env's Studies anyway) and a Computer Systems class. Should I take a calculus series, just in case? I know many schools want the math in there too, though not all...

All of my pre-reqs were done quite some time ago...do they "expire" as someone said earlier in this thread?

Thanks for any advice ya'll throw my way... 😉

I'd be careful with that OChem and Biochem thing at least with the UC's. You shoudl finish the OChem series somewhere. Its entirely possible that the 3 quarter biochem course is one of those combined classes. So somehow you will have to make that case. UC Davis, and I think UCI require an upper division biology course, which includes biochemistry, so clearly biochem does not (at least in their eyes) cover the OChem requirement. But like i said, it may be one of those combined courses. I believe UCLA has a similar course for their bioengineers.

In regards to math, if its a years worth of math, I wouldn't be too concerned. There is no requirement to take calculus, only a "year of math". Make sure the computer system course is considered to be a math class. UC's obviously need a year's worth of math. If your med school path pre-req is fullfilled, I would only suggest taking calc for your own self enrichment. If you do well in it, then it only adds into your BCPM GPA.

Pre-reqs do not expire per se. But if the last class you took was like 4+ years ago, and have nothing else to show of your current academic abilities, that might be more difficul to sell. But since you're doing post-bacc that doesn't matter. Just do well on the MCAT, and that should remove any issues about your pre-reqs being old.

 

[QofQuimica]

I did pretty well in most of my science pre-reqs. My narrative evals give a good indication of the circumstances when I did not. However, some classes like Physics (ugh...i hate physics...put it off til my last two quarters and eeked my way through) were not so hot. With no GPA, will they frown on my not-so-good NEs? Should I retake those classes? Do they really use the NEs in their decision at all, or is it all about the MCAT at that point?

I'm sorry, but I don't know the answer to that. I think you should assume that they will read and consider the NEs if you submit them. My NEs ranged from saying I was average (physics and biology) to above average (biochem and literature) to saying I was the top student in the class (calculus, gen chem, and organic). Assuming that the adcoms do read the NEs (and I have no way to know for sure whether they did or not), obviously you want to present yourself in the best light possible. So it's best if your NEs show you off positively. I would say to avoid sending any NEs that are not positive if you have another NE in that same field that shows you positively. For example, I did not send my linear algebra NE, which said I was average, b/c my calculus NE said I was the top student in the course.

I do think that your MCAT score will be VERY important, as I said before, because that is the main number they have to use to evaluate you in comparison with other students. A high MCAT score will not guarantee you an acceptance anywhere, or even an interview. But it does make it difficult for an interviewer to tell you that you are not academically prepared for med school just b/c you have no grades, if you come in there with the highest MCAT score they've ever seen. 😉 😛

The next question is not a NE related question, but I need some advice on pre-reqs too...

I only took one quarter of O-Chem and one quarter of BioChem, instead of the full series of O-Chem. I aced O-Chem (loved it!) and did okay in BioChem...I see that some schools, even Harvard, are okay with the combo. Should I start over, though, and retake a full series of O-Chem? Or - the post-bacc program I am looking at at CSULA has a 3 quarter BioChem series (but no O-Chem series!)...do you think that would shore up any O-Chem requirements?

My Bio UG degree allowed me bypass college math classes altogether by taking a course in BioStatistics (which was a requirement for Env's Studies anyway) and a Computer Systems class. Should I take a calculus series, just in case? I know many schools want the math in there too, though not all...

All of my pre-reqs were done quite some time ago...do they "expire" as someone said earlier in this thread?

I would suggest that you complete the organic sequence since you are going to be taking coursework anyway. Some schools permit you to substitute biochem for organic, but others don't. It's best to make your application as broad and flexible as possible. You don't want to give the schools a silly excuse like that to reject you with no interview if you can easily avoid it. You will probably need to apply to more schools compared to most applicants as it is because of your gradelessness.

Some schools do require a year of calculus; Harvard is one, and I believe Wash U does as well. Again, I didn't apply in CA, so I don't know the requirements for your schools. But it's probably best to take the calculus if you haven't already, especially because your physics NEs are weaker.

Pre-reqs do not expire at most schools, in my experience, as long as you score well on the MCAT. There are some schools, however, where they do. I would advise you to avoid applying to schools like Harvard, Duke and Vanderbilt that have strict rules about the age, grading, and type of the pre-reqs. Technically, you can ask the schools for exceptions to their rules, but my experience with this is that they generally don't make the exception. You have to keep in mind that you are competing with literally hundreds of trads (and some non-trads too) who have excellent stats, and who do NOT require any exceptions to be made.

 

[Flopotomist]

Fellow Banana slug here!! Graduated in 2002 - I was lucky and for some dumb reason had requested grades in all my classes even though at the time I wasnt premed.

I had nothing useful to add to the conversation, but was excited to see another slug!!