Dismiss Notice
SDN members see fewer ads and full resolution images. Join our non-profit community!

Biochem before taking Ochem anyone?

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by terse, Mar 28, 2007.

  1. terse

    terse Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pharmacist
    A local CC here is offering biochem during the summer (5 sem unit) and the only prereq to that class is chem II. I haven't taken ochem yet so I was wondering if it'd be OK take biochem without taking ochem first. You guys think it'd be too difficult without an ochem knowledge base?

    Reason why i'm asking is because most other schools have ochem I as a prereq.
     
  2. Thread continues after this sponsor message. SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. ADN1226

    ADN1226 Class of 2012!

    Joined:
    May 21, 2006
    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I dont think it'll be too difficult since you learn about lipids carbs all the cycles -- it'll be useful to know the functional groups i think like alcohol and amines etc. but for the most part i think you'd be fine without orgo. Biochem is a lot like bio + microbio + genetics combined.
     
  4. Lurkerkat

    Lurkerkat Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Pharmacist
    Depends on how the teacher approaches the material. At my school OChem I is a pre-req for biochem so the teacher assumes we understand chiral centers and such. We also we needed to know the basics of pushing electrons around. On the other hand though it's very possible to teach the course without focusing so much on the OChem aspects. I'd strongly recommend you ask the prof who's going to teach the course and find out what he's expecting his students to know going into it.
     
  5. omnione

    omnione SDN Pharmoderator
    Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,414
    Likes Received:
    4
    Status:
    Pharmacy Student
    I agree.

    My biochemistry course content assumed that I knew enough about the basic organic structure to interpret biochemistry topics like lipids, metabolism, etc. Some biochemistry courses are more general so organic chem isn't vital for your understanding. I would check the course description.
     
  6. Quiksilver

    Quiksilver Secundum Artem PharmD

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,040
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Pharmacist
    I would take some caution though. Remember some pharm schools have biochem built into their curriculum and if they do, you'd need to either have them waive the course (in this case, you would have to prove that it is was an acceptable substitute) or re-take it.

    An interesting thing about my undergrad, we have a biochem for bio/premed majors and a biochem for the biochem/chem majors. I had to take the latter, my girlfriend took the former. The difference being the chemistry being taught, the pre-med version is a watered down, really no emphasis on organic deal. She is now taking a medicinal biochemistry elective and it would be much much more difficult to take if it wasn't for my book, as she puts it, the bio majors are completely lost. He book is useless.

    Food for thought.
     
  7. Farmercyst

    Farmercyst On with the Poodles already
    Pharmacist Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,859
    Likes Received:
    6
    Status:
    Pharmacist
    I'd agree. As long as you've got functional groups down, you should be fine. Even then we started with amino acids and everything we needed to know about the functional groups was summarized. Everything else was structure/function type stuff. I'd say you could do fine. A little more background in Kinetics would be useful, but you deal with K's in GChem, so you'd still probably be okay.
     
  8. droberge

    droberge Admission or Bust

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    It depends on how the class is taught. Is the biochem class offered by the biology or chemistry department? It seems like half the schools offer it in biology while the other half in chemistry. If it is taught in the chemistry, I would not take it without organic, if it is biology your probably good to go.
     
  9. krsnyf

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2006
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pharmacy Student
    sorry but as a biochemist, i find it an insult for schools to offer such a superficial class. i'm pretty sure most universities will not accept o-chem or biochem credits (mine doesn't accept biochem from cc and they are in the process of not accepting o-chem) and it is for obvious reasons (advance o-chem will torment you if you don't have a strong base). if you do decide to take it, i wish you luck because it is a tough course to take over the summer. you're not majoring in biochem are you?
     
  10. terse

    terse Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pharmacist
    The class listing is listed under the Chemistry section so I'm assuming it's from the chem dept. The course title is "Biochemistry for Science Majors". The only schools i'm applying to that need the biochem is USC and Western.

    According to USC's course equivalencies page, http://www.usc.edu/schools/pharmacy/pharmd/admission/equivalencies.html
    it agrees.

    I'm just worried I'll have a difficult time in this class without Ochem. It being during the summer probably won't help either.
    And oh, I'm not a biochem major ... have a BS already and just taking pre-reqs.
     
  11. krsnyf

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2006
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pharmacy Student
    i think you can pull it off if you don't take any other class. my guess is that if o-chem is not a pre-req for the class, the teacher will probably not bother with the chemical structures, which will make your life so much easier.

    from what i remember of biochem 1: AA's (their strux, pka calc, enzs that cleaves it), sugar/lipids strux + properties, laboratory techniques (i think cc will skip this although they emphasize this at the university), aerobic/anaerobic respiration cycles, protein strux/property (rasmol), enz kinetics, and the basic molecular cell biology. i hope this helps-
     
  12. chemalr8

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Pharmacy
    I personally wouldn't take biochem before orgo. I think you would get a lot more out of biochem if you have the structural and more importantly mechanistic background from orgo. I am actually TAing for biochem II right now and TAed for biochem I last semester and have seen a lot of people w/o the proper backgroud really struggle with the material.
     
  13. Me+PharmD

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Pharmacist
    Organ. I & II is a pre-req for biochem. I at my school, and I think it's safe to say no other learning style can really replace the lectures given on Organic Chemistry. It takes a lot of practice to be comfortable with the hundreds of different mechanisms and syntheses alone, not to mention all of the other aspects that are entailed in Organ. I & II.
     
  14. Hosstheboss

    Hosstheboss Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pharmacy Student
    It would be best to take organic before had. Even if it isnt required it will help you in the long run.
     
  15. droberge

    droberge Admission or Bust

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    Being in the chem department makes it much more likely to be focused on the stuff that was built on from OChem. I don't know if I would venture to take that class before OChem... I could end up in disaster. I mean don't they automatically drop you if you have not met the prereq's?
     

Share This Page