Bioethics Masters before med school

[lalalaaaaaa]

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So I got in to Columbia's Bioethics masters program. I'm wondering people's general thoughts on how this would look when I apply to medical school next year, or how it looks throughout a career in medicine (ie. is it beneficial, not meaningful, etc).

btw: Stats are 3.63c3.79s32MCAT with a lot of science research experience. I'm really interested in integrating bioethics into my career as a physician, but I'm not sure how this degree is seen by med schools.

Thanks!

 

[theseeker4]

So I got in to Columbia's Bioethics masters program. I'm wondering people's general thoughts on how this would look when I apply to medical school next year, or how it looks throughout a career in medicine (ie. is it beneficial, not meaningful, etc).

btw: Stats are 3.63c3.79s32MCAT with a lot of science research experience. I'm really interested in integrating bioethics into my career as a physician, but I'm not sure how this degree is seen by med schools.

Thanks!

I doubt they would care much about it. Do it if you want to for yourself, but don't just do it because you think it will help your application, it probably isnt worth it as far as that is concerned.

 

[couragetcd]

From someone who's done bioethics, the program alone won't boost you in application. It gives you something to talk about in interviews and if you do research maybe a publication. For your career, it depends on what specialty you end up practising in; I know plenty of EM residents who do bioe research on the side, but not a single radiologist. If you choose academia or end up leaving practice, it quickly becomes more relevant.

 

[Nymphicus]

I doubt they would care much about it. Do it if you want to for yourself, but don't just do it because you think it will help your application, it probably isnt worth it as far as that is concerned.

This exactly.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

I figured this was the case. Any one else out there have a different opinion?

 

[TwistinD]

I just recently got my masters in bioethics so I can give you some firsthand advice if you're interested.

The bottom line that pretty much everyone agrees on is that it wont be of any use for your quantitative stats (GPA/MCAT), but also make sure you do well in the program anyway of course. On the other hand, I disagree with anyone who says adcoms won't care about it - in fact, I've been told by adcoms myself that they love it on apps. They want to see diverse healthcare interests and experiences!

The other thing that I'm curious about is why you chose Columbia's specific program - while Columbia is obviously a great school, there are much better grad programs in Bioethics that cater towards premeds who want to integrate the field into their future careers. I'm definitely not trying to be critical or anything, I too applied to Columbia, got accepted, but then chose elsewhere. My main reason was the fact that they do not allow you to do anything in the clinic (was told this verbatim by the director last year). At my program, I shadowed every medical specialty at every type of hospital in the city (public/private/uni/VA) for over 200 hours and got to attend some pretty exclusive meetings (neurosurgery M&M for example). We also got to specialize in clinical ethics which is the area of bioethics most meaningful for a practicing clinician. I even got to travel abroad to Amsterdam for a comparative public health ethics course on infectious diseases. I ended up writing my thesis on an emerging ethical dilemma in clinical neurosurgery - a paper I'm in the process of publishing now. Not that you can change where you will go do your masters, but I would suggest doing everything possible to make it related to your future career. Studying theory, just taking classes, and doing research may not really show your passion for being a doctor.

Now, I'm a huge advocate of bioethics, and I find it really sad that so many premeds are deterred from taking it seriously - this is primarily a problem when they become med students and wave off the ethics sessions. I have experienced so many awkward clinical situations firsthand from my degree and I have the foundation to deal with them - both legally and morally. MANY residents and med students have no idea what to do when faced with these common, everyday aspects of doctoring (witnessed this during all of my clinical rounds). Needless to say, its a vital field and will help you immensely in your personal statement, interviews, and general medical career - but definitely do it because you're passionate about it!

Sorry to have written a novel, but feel free to PM me if you have any further questions. And do try not to get too caught up in the traditional pre-med mindset that the only thing adcoms want to see is achievement in the hard sciences - its obviously necessary, but its not the holy grail to getting an acceptance and being a GREAT physician patients will trust and want to work with. 🙂

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

Thanks for your response, I PMed you some questions too.

I agree that pre-meds are generally ignorant of the importance of ethics in the day to day clinical setting. Even med students don't realize how important ethical training is to medicine and just go on autopilot in those courses. (I've sat through bioethics courses with med students, and many could care less about it.)

What many people fail to consider is that science is simply a fundamental aspect of medicine, as is ethics, and communication, etc. Science is not the ultimate pillar of medicine that has all the answers. If you think it is, visit someone in hospice care, or on an oncology ward, and you will quickly learn that humanism is the ultimate pillar of medicine, and all these other facets of medicine, like science, are simply tools to preserve and respect the life and dignity of a patient. IMO 🙂

 

[TwistinD]

Thanks for your response, I PMed you some questions too.

I agree that pre-meds are generally ignorant of the importance of ethics in the day to day clinical setting. Even med students don't realize how important ethical training is to medicine and just go on autopilot in those courses. (I've sat through bioethics courses with med students, and many could care less about it.)

What many people fail to consider is that science is simply a fundamental aspect of medicine, as is ethics, and communication, etc. Science is not the ultimate pillar of medicine that has all the answers. If you think it is, visit someone in hospice care, or on an oncology ward, and you will quickly learn that humanism is the ultimate pillar of medicine, and all these other facets of medicine, like science, are simply tools to preserve the and respect the life and dignity of a patient. IMO 🙂

👍👍👍👍👍👍 couldn't agree more - exactly why I did bioethics and exactly why we'll make amazing doctors.

I replied back by the way 🙂

 

[gmcguitar4]

In my opinion, obtainimg a higher degree when you know you are going
To med school is a complete waste of money. A majority of the information you learn will be lost after not applying it for a couple of years. Some stuff will come in handy of course. It's ok if you are a med student or resident and are not fully versed in the ethics of medicine..that is why you go through med school and residency, so that you learn it. By the time you are a fully practicing physician you and everyone else will have so much experience your previous knowledge from any masters will most likely not give you any edge over your peers. Just my opinion though, not trying to hate on it or anything. The only thing i could see it helping with is during interviews, but only slightly. Not worth the price though.