Biomedical PhD with schizoaffective disorder

[Ellatha]

I’m kind of getting the idea that medical school is not really an option for me with schizoaffective disorder because licensing may be an issue, but would a PhD in microbiology and immunology be feasible? I understand that a lot of people in my position simply get on disability and smoke cigarettes all day, but I really want to make something of myself and am wondering if this is a plausible path for me.

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[Goro]

How well is your illness controlled?

With getting a PhD, your first ten years are set, as good grad students and post-docs are hard to find. It's what comes after that (academia or industry?) that's the hard part.

 

[Ellatha]

How well is your illness controlled?

With getting a PhD, your first ten years are set, as good grad students and post-docs are hard to find. It's what comes after that (academia or industry?) that's the hard part.

As long as I take a trimonthly injection I won’t develop psychosis (as long as I avoid edibles [which is not difficult for me to do]). I do feel like I’m less curious and motivated when I’m on the drug though.

I used to be extremely inquisitive; I used to spend hours reading biology textbooks. I no longer have the curiosity to do that.

My first option is academia, and my backup is industry.

 

[stinkycheeseperson]

As long as I take a trimonthly injection I won’t develop psychosis (as long as I avoid edibles [which is not difficult for me to do]). I do feel like I’m less curious and motivated when I’m on the drug though.

I used to be extremely inquisitive; I used to spend hours reading biology textbooks. I no longer have the curiosity to do that.

My first option is academia, and my backup is industry.

something will spark for you.

 

[LizzyM]

I’m kind of getting the idea that medical school is not really an option for me with schizoaffective disorder because licensing may be an issue, but would a PhD in microbiology and immunology be feasible? I understand that a lot of people in my position simply get on disability and smoke cigarettes all day, but I really want to make something of myself and am wondering if this is a plausible path for me.

The first test of whether you could manage a PhD program in microbiology/.immunology might be to land a full-time job in an academic research lab. That should provide you with some of the experience that top programs are looking for, help you acquire letters of recommendation, and give you an idea of the work load and stress of a research career.

 

[Ellatha]

The first test of whether you could manage a PhD program in microbiology/.immunology might be to land a full-time job in an academic research lab. That should provide you with some of the experience that top programs are looking for, help you acquire letters of recommendation, and give you an idea of the work load and stress of a research career.

I’m currently in an M.S. program and am working in a lab.

 

[Goro]

I’m currently in an M.S. program and am working in a lab.

Even with an MS, you can go far, without the hassles of getting a PhD.

Lab manager come to mind, for one.

 

[Ellatha]

Even with an MS, you can go far, without the hassles of getting a PhD.

Lab manager come to mind, for one.

Can you really? I was told that it’s very difficult to find a job with an MS in biology. I regret not majoring in computer science :/.

 

[LizzyM]

Can you really? I was told that it’s very difficult to find a job with an MS in biology. I regret not majoring in computer science :/.

If it is hard to get a job with an MS in biology, it is twice as hard to get a job as a PhD. There is a serious glut in light of the number of academic research positions available.

 

[DigNewton]

... I regret not majoring in computer science :/.

Why not get CS training at this point, then? That would be much faster and less challenging than getting a PhD, and have a much better job market after training. The academic job market for PhDs is brutal, even in the sciences... and that's after doing a 4-6 year PhD and somewhere from 2-to-infinite years in post-doc positions.

There are lots of programs like this out there: Computer Science (Postbacc) – Undergraduate Degrees Online – Online & Distance Degrees | Oregon State Ecampus | OSU Degrees Online

 

[Ellatha]

Why not get CS training at this point, then? That would be much faster and less challenging than getting a PhD, and have a much better job market after training. The academic job market for PhDs is brutal, even in the sciences... and that's after doing a 4-6 year PhD and somewhere from 2-to-infinite years in post-doc positions.

There are lots of programs like this out there: Computer Science (Postbacc) – Undergraduate Degrees Online – Online & Distance Degrees | Oregon State Ecampus | OSU Degrees Online

I don’t think I can afford a postbacc; my undergrad loans are close to maxed out, I believe. My back is kind of against the wall here .

 

[stinkycheeseperson]

Google certs and MOOCs. Community college.

 

[LizzyM]

Can you switch to a masters in computer science, statistics or biostatistics?

 

[4lphabet]

Some bioinfo PhD programs don't require coding prerequisites either if you'd like to lead your own bio-flavored projects with some of the CS marketability. A lot depends on your work + leveraging connections.

If you're in the MS already you could try to transfer into a PhD?

 

[Ellatha]

Can you switch to a masters in computer science, statistics or biostatistics?

I don’t think it’s possible to switch from one Master’s program to another.

 

[4lphabet]

I don’t think it’s possible to switch from one Master’s program to another.

Ask anyways; they'll be more lenient if it's an internal transfer

 

[LizzyM]

I don’t think it’s possible to switch from one Master’s program to another

An internal transfer may be possible. You could also consider the consequences of leaving your current program as "a bad fit" and apply to other math/computing masters programs this fall to start in fall 2022.

 

[Ellatha]

An internal transfer may be possible. You could also consider the consequences of leaving your current program as "a bad fit" and apply to other math/computing masters programs this fall to start in fall 2022.

I’ll be done with my current program in early May of 2022, so I’m definitely not leaving it.

All of the computer science master’s programs I’ve looked at want previous course work in computer science that I don’t have.

Are there any other careers I could look at? I have about $100,000 in student loans.

 

[biomom]

Can you really? I was told that it’s very difficult to find a job with an MS in biology. I regret not majoring in computer science :/.

It is depending on where you live. I have my MS in molecular biology and eventually found a job teaching, running the labs, and working with TA’s. I was paid pennies. I left that job 15 years ago and the rules for teaching at the University level have changed (at least where I am). My job was taken over by a PhD.

 

[LizzyM]

I’ll be done with my current program in early May of 2022, so I’m definitely not leaving it.

All of the computer science master’s programs I’ve looked at want previous course work in computer science that I don’t have.

Are there any other careers I could look at? I have about $100,000 in student loans.

Have you considered statistics, biostatistics or bioinformatics?

 

[DigNewton]

I’ll be done with my current program in early May of 2022, so I’m definitely not leaving it.

All of the computer science master’s programs I’ve looked at want previous course work in computer science that I don’t have.

Are there any other careers I could look at? I have about $100,000 in student loans.

It's USC, so it's super expensive... but they have a CS masters specifically intended for people with science/engineering backgrounds: MS in Computer Science - Scientists and Engineers - USC Viterbi | Prospective Students

That said, I'm hesitant to tell anyone to borrow a bunch of money for school, especially in a field like software engineering where self-taught people can find jobs fairly easily. As easily as with a CS degree? No. But easily enough. I don't have a CS degree, and I was a software engineer at Bay Area tech companies, both small and large.

Here's what I'd suggest, if you're serious about exploring the CS/software engineering route.
(1) Self-study with free (or very cheap) online resources. Don't sink tons of money into training if you can make progress on your own...especially since you might not even like programming in the end. One example resource is Learn to Code — For Free — Coding Courses for Busy People. I can't vouch for it or any other online resources personally, though – I was old-fashioned and used books.
(2) Look for entry-level jobs. The easiest route may be to look for paid software engineering internships. These often convert into permanent positions after the internship ends, if you do great work during the internship. There are also companies like Triplebyte: Engineer Job Search, Refactored. that will interview you, then pass you along to a lot of other companies if you pass their generic interview.
(3) Learn on the job. Work your way toward the company you want to land at.
(4) Enjoy the money you saved, the remarkable software engineering job market, and the inflated paychecks.

Note that all of the above is predicated on you enjoying programming and software engineering. If you don't, then maybe think about the PhD route a little more. But do not get a PhD if the main reason is to find a job...you need to love the subject and love research. I have many friends with PhDs from "top 5" institutions and first-author publications in the major one-word-name journals. Some ended up in academia, most in industry, and not one of them had an easy job search.

 

[Ellatha]

It's USC, so it's super expensive... but they have a CS masters specifically intended for people with science/engineering backgrounds: MS in Computer Science - Scientists and Engineers - USC Viterbi | Prospective Students

That said, I'm hesitant to tell anyone to borrow a bunch of money for school, especially in a field like software engineering where self-taught people can find jobs fairly easily. As easily as with a CS degree? No. But easily enough. I don't have a CS degree, and I was a software engineer at Bay Area tech companies, both small and large.

Here's what I'd suggest, if you're serious about exploring the CS/software engineering route.
(1) Self-study with free (or very cheap) online resources. Don't sink tons of money into training if you can make progress on your own...especially since you might not even like programming in the end. One example resource is Learn to Code — For Free — Coding Courses for Busy People. I can't vouch for it or any other online resources personally, though – I was old-fashioned and used books.
(2) Look for entry-level jobs. The easiest route may be to look for paid software engineering internships. These often convert into permanent positions after the internship ends, if you do great work during the internship. There are also companies like Triplebyte: Engineer Job Search, Refactored. that will interview you, then pass you along to a lot of other companies if you pass their generic interview.
(3) Learn on the job. Work your way toward the company you want to land at.
(4) Enjoy the money you saved, the remarkable software engineering job market, and the inflated paychecks.

Note that all of the above is predicated on you enjoying programming and software engineering. If you don't, then maybe think about the PhD route a little more. But do not get a PhD if the main reason is to find a job...you need to love the subject and love research. I have many friends with PhDs from "top 5" institutions and first-author publications in the major one-word-name journals. Some ended up in academia, most in industry, and not one of them had an easy job search.

Any idea how long I’d have to self-learn to be employable?

 

[Bored_Conscious]

Can you really? I was told that it’s very difficult to find a job with an MS in biology. I regret not majoring in computer science :/.

I graduated with a B.S. in Biology and for my gap year I am working as a project manager with a research group. I am compensated pretty well (60k/yr). I am pretty confident that if I gain more experience, jump between jobs for salary increases, etc. I think I could hit 80k - 100k within the next 4 to 6 years.

What I'm trying to say is that a Biology Degree in and of itself is pretty useless. However, if you are able to market yourself well with the experience you have then getting a decent paying job with a Biology degree is not an impossibility. You will have a M.S. degree soon. If I were you, I would really look into Clinical Research Coordinator positions, Lab Manager positions, etc. You will have to be patient, but I'd like to believe that you have a good shot. Wouldn't be a bad idea to even start applying now.

 

[DigNewton]

Any idea how long I’d have to self-learn to be employable?

There are too many variables at play for me to be able to offer any kind of meaningful estimate. There are tons of articles, blog posts, websites, etc. focused on this topic, though. If you do a search, you should find lots of info about what content you need to learn. At that point, the answer is just "however much time you need to learn the material."

 

[Ellatha]

There are too many variables at play for me to be able to offer any kind of meaningful estimate. There are tons of articles, blog posts, websites, etc. focused on this topic, though. If you do a search, you should find lots of info about what content you need to learn. At that point, the answer is just "however much time you need to learn the material."

Sorry for all the questions, but how hard is it to make 6 figures as a software engineer?

 

[Goro]

Sorry for all the questions, but how hard is it to make 6 figures as a software engineer?

Might take some effort

Software Engineer Salary in 2024 | PayScale

The average salary for a Software Engineer is $93,196 in 2024. Visit PayScale to research software engineer salaries by city, experience, skill, employer and more.

www.payscale.com

 

[RespectTheChemistry]

Sorry for all the questions, but how hard is it to make 6 figures as a software engineer?

My SO worked for $50-60k with his bachelor's in CS before getting to near-six figs (90k) seven years out of college. And he was really lucky in a "right place, right time" situation.

 

[DigNewton]

Sorry for all the questions, but how hard is it to make 6 figures as a software engineer?

Depends a lot on the region you're in and company you're at. SF Bay Area? The vast majority of entry-level jobs start at 100k+, but you're paying Bay Area cost of living (which is staggeringly high). NYC? LA? Similar. I'm much less familiar with the market outside of major coastal cities.

To be blunt, you can get rich relatively easily as software engineer in places like SF and New York – much more easily than as a physician or researcher – even with the high cost of living. It's not at all uncommon for engineers with 5-7 years of experience to make over 200k/year. At the more famous tech companies (not just FAANG, but the next tier too... Dropbox, Square, Lyft, Stripe, etc.), it's often more like 300-500k/year once you include RSUs and bonuses. And almost none of those engineers are working surgeon hours.

But is that your main goal...getting rich? (rhetorical question, left as an exercise for the reader). Software engineering is quite a ways off from the interests you initially expressed here (med school, biomedical research). Money isn't everything, not even close.

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EDIT: OP, I've pretty much blown my anonymity in this thread already, so I'm gonna bow out. If you're genuinely interested in software engineering and have questions about things other than money and hours (educational options, career paths, etc.), DM me. But please don't DM me if it's mostly about money... I had my fill of people talking about how to get rich during my years in the tech industry.

 

[Ellatha]

Depends a lot on the region you're in and company you're at. SF Bay Area? The vast majority of entry-level jobs start at 100k+, but you're paying Bay Area cost of living (which is staggeringly high). NYC? LA? Similar. I'm much less familiar with the market outside of major coastal cities.

To be blunt, you can get rich relatively easily as software engineer in places like SF and New York – much more easily than as a physician or researcher – even with the high cost of living. It's not at all uncommon for engineers with 5-7 years of experience to make over 200k/year. At the more famous tech companies (not just FAANG, but the next tier too... Dropbox, Square, Lyft, Stripe, etc.), it's often more like 300-500k/year once you include RSUs and bonuses. And almost none of those engineers are working surgeon hours.

But is that your main goal...getting rich? (rhetorical question, left as an exercise for the reader). Software engineering is quite a ways off from the interests you initially expressed here (med school, biomedical research). Money isn't everything, not even close.

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EDIT: OP, I've pretty much blown my anonymity in this thread already, so I'm gonna bow out. If you're genuinely interested in software engineering and have questions about things other than money and hours (educational options, career paths, etc.), DM me. But please don't DM me if it's mostly about money... I had my fill of people talking about how to get rich during my years in the tech industry.

Thank you for all your help. I will DM you if any non-money related questions come up.