Bluefield Dental School - Southwest Virginia - First class will be enrolled 2015

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

UCSFx2017

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
1,128
Reaction score
120
Virginia Dental Association's letter to Bluefield Dental School. http://www.vadental.org/pro/news/454

Bluefield Dental School's letter to the editor of Virginia Dental Journal. http://www.vadental.org/pro/news/453

University of Virginia at Wise's study regarding the prospective dental school. http://www.uvawise.edu/fin_gov/files/fin_gov/Dental Study.pdf

Members don't see this ad.
 
Lets flood the market some more!
 
Members don't see this ad :)
There's 5 dental schools for a population of 36 million.....you kidding?

It's not about having enough schools for a population. It's about having enough dentists for a population. Right now, California in general is busting at the seams with dentists. I think there should be about 55 dental schools, not 60+ with more on the way. This many schools further saturates the market which hurts us all, and it helps to spread the corporate footprint of dentistry.
 
Who here is pumped for DeVry School of Dental Medicine? How about University of Phoenix - Executive School of Dentistry?

I wanna be the dean of admissions at one of these schools!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Hey, if they keep opening schools, at least we won't have to worry about finding teaching jobs! LOL
 
We don't want them to open more dental schools. The reasons for dentistry being a great profession include good employment prospects and great pay. If we have more dentists, then the job market will get tighter and the pay will go down substantially.

This is happening to the legal field right now. While I was one of the lucky ones in my class to get a very good paying job right out of law school, a majority of my classmates were not so lucky since the market is so flooded. In the 90s and early 2000s, every year, more and more law schools opened and thus, almost anyone could get into law school if they wanted (whereas before, it was much more difficult). As a consequence, many of the subpar students either couldn't pass the bar exam or barely passed and are incompetent lawyers, to the detriment of clients. There are also literally thousands of unemployed or underemployed lawyers in the country that are forced to work at places like coffee shops or bars or find mid-level generic corporate jobs rather than practice law...plus they have 150K or more in student loans to boot.

Check out one of many NY Times articles about the issue: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Thus, we want to keep new dental school openings to a minimum or at least reduce the rate at which they open per year, which would ultimately serve the best interests of the profession and patients.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
We don't want them to open more dental schools. The reasons why the profession is a great one to get into include good employment prospects and great pay. If we have more dentists, then the job market will get tighter and the pay will go down substantially.

This is happening to the legal field right now. While I was one of the lucky ones in my class to get a very good paying job right out of law school, a majority of my classmates were not so lucky since the market is so flooded. In the 90s and early 2000s, every year, more and more law schools opened and thus, almost anyone could get into law school if they wanted (whereas before, it was much more difficult). As a consequence, many of the subpar students either couldn't pass the bar exam or barely passed and are incompetent lawyers, to the detriment of clients. There are also literally thousands of unemployed or underemployed lawyers in the country that are forced to work at places like coffee shops or bars or find mid-level generic corporate jobs rather than practice law...plus they have 150K or more in student loans to boot.

Check out one of many NY Times articles about the issue: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Thus, we want to keep new dental school openings to a minimum or at least reduce the rate at which they open per year, which would ultimately serve the best interests of the profession and patients.

:thumbup:

Some of the most dimwitted and incompetent people from my college practice law, and hold degrees from colleges that I have never heard of. The legal profession is rough. I have cousins who recently graduated and working in fields unrelated to law. It would be a shame if dentistry follows suit. However, and perhaps wishful thinking, supposedly many dentists are due to retire within the decade.
 
Law and other professions should remind us that when we have a pessimistic view on dentistry, that other professions have it tough as well.


As far as bluefield is concerned, the project seems like a mess. Are there really that many qualified prospective students who will want to stay in that area upon graduation. I never thought graduating more dentists is a direct way to address the access to care problems at hand. The money for the school could be much better spend directly addressing the problem

I agree that 55 schools seems like a good number. I hope that the high tuitions lead to a corrective adjustment of school closing in the future.
 
I agree. I don't think creating more schools will get more people to stay in these areas that lack dentists. Everybody wants to move to a bigger area after graduation. They need to create incentives to get students to stay in these areas after graduation. Perhaps loan forgiveness can get people to stay in these cities.

Great post Tandem. I don't want to see dentistry become like law.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I agree that too many random/new schools are springing up. However, we need another dental school in VA. Virginia has MANY highly qualified pre-dental students (especially in the northern Virginia area). Check almost every dental school that accepts OOS students and odds are you will find Virginians in their class.

If one is to be established, I would like to see it at a well established institution with a med school (UVA or VTech) or have one school established in DC that gives preference to local students from the DC/NoVA area.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I agree that too many random/new schools are springing up. However, we need another dental school in VA. Virginia has MANY highly qualified pre-dental students (especially in the northern Virginia area). Check almost every dental school that accepts OOS students and odds are you will find Virginians in their class.

If one is to be established, I would like to see it at a well established institution with a med school (UVA or VTech) or have one school established in DC that gives preference to local students from the DC/NoVA area.

Uhhhh...what in the world? I don't see how this is a reason to create another dental school in VA, if these students have an in-state option and are getting into other schools (and there are enough spots for the overall application pool nationwide).

Virginia has a population of ~8 million and has one dental school. There are other states with similar population size and also only one dental school (NJ and GA come to mind...both have larger populations than VA, ~9 and ~10 million respectively).

Y'all are lucky you even have a state dental school, because Massachusetts has a population of ~6.5 million people and has only private dental schools. Kansas (pop ~3 million) residents have a few spots (6 according to this poster) in Missouri, apparently. According to another SDN poster, Temple holds 5 seats for DE residents (pop ~1 million). Other programs exist for states who do not have public dental schools and contract with other schools. I'm sure VA would be expanding the VCU class if they felt that their students needed more state-subsidized spots.

The predental students from these other states I mentioned (or other states with only private schools that have to contract) unarguably have more of a need for a dental school that favors them than Virginians have for another school that favors VA residents.


The other thing is...Bluefield is a private college. Is the tuition at this dental school going to be state-subsidized? I briefly looked through the links provided in this thread and saw that in the Letter to the Editor they skirt the issue of indebtedness (and mention that they will only need minimal state or private subsidy for the whole thing), so I'm pretty sure it'll be a private school.

If it is a private school, then what is the difference for VA residents between attending a private dental school in Virginia or elsewhere? It would be minimal. People will still need to pay the ridiculous tuition and also for their own living expenses (which will be lower than in a big city, but probably comparable to a private dental school or paying OOS tuition in a small town/rural area).

Private schools usually don't even discriminate based on location. Maybe there will be a regional "preference" but I don't know how strong this type of preference is. It's still a private school.
 
Last edited:
I didn't say I was in favor of this specific dental school. I just said I would like to see another reputable school establish one. In the state But just my 2 cents.
 
I didn't say I was in favor of this specific dental school. I just said I would like to see another reputable school establish one. In the state But just my 2 cents.

Oh, sorry only the first part of my post was addressing the part I highlighted from you. That's why I put extra space before the second part.

I really just don't see how there is enough of a need in VA to establish another state-subsidized dental school (the schools you listed are both public), objectively speaking. Of course, everyone on here probably wants their particular state to have 533,234 state-subsidized dental school seats at "reputable"/"prestigious" schools just so they're guaranteed to get one, but it doesn't mean that the idea makes sense from an overall perspective. That's what I was getting at.
 
Obviously I have a bias. But even the examples you listed (GA and NJ) are far less OOS friendly than VCU is. Especially GA. Also the number of highly ranked undergraduate schools in the state is more than most other states, meaning there are more potential feeder schools.

I'm not saying that VA is the MOST in need of a dental school. I'm saying that in my opinion it is more in need of an additional school compared to other locations that are being more actively considered.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Obviously I have a bias. But even the examples you listed (GA and NJ) are far less OOS friendly than VCU is. Especially GA.

Unless you have proof that there is a significantly higher pool of pre-dental students in VA, I am going to continue to use population to approximate how many pre-dental students there are in a given state. How many seats are given out to in-state vs out of state students is probably best approximated by the enrollee data from the ADEA book because schools don't really give out that info on their websites and it varies from year to year.

VCU had 62 in-state enrollees according to the 2013 ADEA.

NJ had 63 in-state enrollees according to the 2013 ADEA and a very slightly larger population (population in NJ is approx 1.09x what VA's population is).

GA had 76 in-state enrollees. However, GA has approx 1.2x the population that VA does and 76/62 is also approx 1.2, so they have approx the same # of in-state students compared to their population as VA does. You are right that GA seems to reserve a higher # of seats for in-state students, however the situation there is still very comparable to VA because they have a higher population and therefore most likely a larger pool of applicants.

So, I do think that in terms of how many seats these schools give to in-state applicants the situations are pretty much the same.

Also the number of highly ranked undergraduate schools in the state is more than most other states, meaning there are more potential feeder schools.

I'm not even going to start with this. "Highly ranked" is a very subjective term and I don't see the point of getting into it right now.

The one thing I will say is that many "highly ranked" schools are private, which means that they have a student population that is likely to be from all over the US, and therefore whether or not there are a lot of "highly ranked" schools in one area is to me not an indication of whether that state has a higher pool of pre-dental applicants. But I really don't feel like delving into this further.

I'm not saying that VA is the MOST in need of a dental school. I'm saying that in my opinion it is more in need of an additional school compared to other locations that are being more actively considered.

Well it seems like VA is getting Bluefield, so I don't see your point at all. You're getting your panties in a bunch because this new dental school isn't going to be prestigious enough for you.

What I was saying is that VA is not most in need of a dental school, and therefore I don't see the point in putting a dental school there when there are other states/locations that need it more (I still can't believe Kansas only has 6 spots with how underserved they seem to be). But to each his/her own.
 
Last edited:
...As far as bluefield is concerned, the project seems like a mess...

Of course it's a mess, they can't even get the degree right.

"In addition to offering the doctor of dental medicine (DDM) degree..." :confused:

It's really sad, because applicants will stick flock to this school just like every other new school.
 
Would this mean that people with sub 3.0 will have a better chance of getting in? Should I apply here?
 
"Much has been written about the growing indebtedness of dental students. How will your school address this issue?

Dr. Serio: We can't address the student indebtedness problem completely. In southwest Virginia, there's about three dentists per 10,000 people, or about half the national average. The question is, how do you get dentists to come here? First, we need to recruit both at the high school and college level in places where dental schools have not traditionally recruited. I recall that when ECU recruited for its students, in-state applications to Chapel Hill went up, just due to ECU's recruiting. Some of these communities here need to support their residents. We'll develop a model where communities will help pay off the loan if their students will locate a practice there. Here's what needs to be done: 1) make the community part of the effort both in identifying students interested in a dental career; 2) have them support the dental student they want to support 3) reduce student debt 4) teach the business of dentistry to students: we'd teach wealth management, that is, work backwards. How much do I need, and how do I get there?"


The number of 50 Shades of Grey sales have also risen. I guess the number of erotica books that are sold also caused the increase of in state applications to Chapel Hill, right? How are you so sure that the rise in applications isn't due to US News ranking dentistry as the #1 job? Seriously though, it's sad that a dean is so easily establishing a causation relationship between ECU advertisement and the rise in instate applications to UNC dental school. I'm not surprised someone pushing for zero legit science research actually said this. Even if there was a rise in UNC applications, that would do nothing in addressing the unequal distribution of dentists. I don't know what he's getting at. Right now, everything he says is empty promises. He won't give any numbered estimate. He says he wants the community to fund the dental student's education. WTH? Does he think we live in a fairytale? If the surrounding community is relatively poor and can't afford even their own dental care, what makes him think they'll support the education of dental students? He says people will want to go to Bluefield because of their rural surroundings? WTH? The reason southwest VA is devoid of dentists is because the area is boring and has nothing around for 50 miles. Yet he thinks it's a selling point? Talk about a salesman's BS. He's basically saying, "Hey this car is made up of the cheapest parts. But on the flip side, it's affordable!"

If he says he wants the community to "invest" in the dental school, he shouldn't open the school, whose sole purpose is to educate dentists who have been leveraged with loan repayment to practice in Bluefield, until he finds said funds. Otherwise Bluefield is another stupid private dental school, contributing to the oversaturation of dentists and not addressing the issue of equally distributing dentists. If he doesn't find a way to leverage these dentists to work in Bluefield before the first class graduates, he's going to be the biggest d**k in dentistry.

This school and all the other schools that have opened recently are so backwards. The future of dentistry is preventative, minimally invasive dentistry. The future of preventative, minimally invasive dentistry is in research, which none of these quack schools have shown any interest in. Why invest in a school with such limited function and with so few goals, that are more aligned with the needs of the 1960's than 2013, in mind?

I'd hate to be in his shoes. Either all the state schools in needy states are going to follow suit in incentivizing graduating dentists to work within the state's needy area by paying for the schooling or he's going to be the biggest jack off who screwed over not only the graduating dentists but also the surrounding community. In a couple years, I'll find out if I love him or hate him. So far, it doesn't look promising...

From what I've read, he wants an affordable private dental school (lol, wut?), he wants the community to pay for a dentist's education (don't we already have the stigma as being wealthy professionals? How would you convince a working class individual to think that it's appropriate for his tax dollars to fund a dentist's education while his kids can't even afford to go to community college?), he expects dentists working in Bluefield area to be financially wealthy by teaching them "wealth management" by working "backwards" (If I'm reading this right, he wants to offer patients affordable care but make the dentists a lot of money?...What kind of nonsense talk is this?!), and he wants dentists and faculty to move to the middle of nowhere in VA, where the nearest supermarket can be a roadtrip away? If you don't end up leveraging your students with repayment, how are you going to make sure they end up practicing in the middle of nowhere VA? The perks of becoming a dentist is that it allows you to work and live almost anywhere. Who is to say that someone who lived in Tazewell county all his life and promises without any contractual agreement to practice in Tazewell after graduating from Bluefield, won't go back on his promises (just as Bluefield probably will) and want to explore the rest of the U.S. once he graduates? Wow...just wow...I want the dean to succeed but his goals for Bluefield aren't realistic.

Bluefield isn't going to be another ECU success story because unlike ECU, Bluefield doesn't have the financial backing from the state. How's he going to get the funding without the rest of the state's help when the surrounding citizens make only about $20-30,000/year?

http://www.usa.com/tazewell-county-va-income-and-careers.htm

If Bluefield ends up accepting the bottom half of applicants just because they're from SW VA, the school has failed because they've lowered the standards of our entire profession.

If Bluefield doesn't hold any leverage over its graduates in order to make them work in rural VA, the school's sole purpose of existence has failed. It shouldn't even exist at all.

If Bluefield does not reduce the cost to educate a dentist, the school failed to make its existence a better financial deal than to expand funding for NHSC style repayment programs within VA.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
"Much has been written about the growing indebtedness of dental students. How will your school address this issue?

Dr. Serio: We can't address the student indebtedness problem completely. In southwest Virginia, there's about three dentists per 10,000 people, or about half the national average. The question is, how do you get dentists to come here? First, we need to recruit both at the high school and college level in places where dental schools have not traditionally recruited. I recall that when ECU recruited for its students, in-state applications to Chapel Hill went up, just due to ECU's recruiting. Some of these communities here need to support their residents. We'll develop a model where communities will help pay off the loan if their students will locate a practice there. Here's what needs to be done: 1) make the community part of the effort both in identifying students interested in a dental career; 2) have them support the dental student they want to support 3) reduce student debt 4) teach the business of dentistry to students: we'd teach wealth management, that is, work backwards. How much do I need, and how do I get there?"


The number of 50 Shades of Grey sales have also risen. I guess the number of erotica books that are sold also caused the increase of in state applications to Chapel Hill, right? How are you so sure that the rise in applications isn't due to US News ranking dentistry as the #1 job? Seriously though, it's sad that a dean is so easily establishing a causation relationship between ECU advertisement and the rise in instate applications to UNC dental school. I'm not surprised someone pushing for zero legit science research actually said this. Even if there was rise in UNC applications, that would do nothing in addressing the unequal distribution of dentists. I don't know what he's getting at. Right now, everything he says is empty promises. He won't give any numbered estimate. He says he wants the community to fund the dental student's education. WTH? Does he think we live in a fairytale? If the surrounding community is relatively poor and can't afford even their own dental care, what makes him think they'll support the education of dental students? He says people will want to go to Bluefield because of their rural surroundings? WTH? The reason southwest VA is devoid of dentists is because the area is boring and has nothing around for 50 miles. Yet he thinks it's a selling point? Talk about a salesman's BS. He's basically saying, "Hey this car is made up of the cheapest parts. But on the flip side, it's affordable!"

If he says he wants the community to "invest" in the dental school, he shouldn't open the school, whose sole purpose is to educate dentists who have been leveraged with loan repayment to practice in Bluefield, until he finds said funds. Otherwise Bluefield is another stupid private dental school, contributing to the oversaturation of dentists and not addressing the issue of equally distributing dentists. If he doesn't find a way to leverage these dentists to work in Bluefield before the first class graduates, he's going to be the biggest d**k in dentistry.

This school and all the other schools that have opened recently are so backwards. The future of dentistry is preventative, minimally invasive dentistry. The future of preventative, minimally invasive dentistry is in research, which none of these quack schools have shown any interest in. Why invest in a school with such limited function and with so few goals, that are more aligned with the needs of the 1960's than 2013, in mind?

I'd hate to be in his shoes. Either all the state schools in needy states are going to follow suit in incentivizing graduating dentists to work within the state's needy area by paying for the schooling or he's going to be the biggest jack off who screwed over not only the graduating dentists but also the surrounding community. In a couple years, I'll find out if I love him or hate him. So far, it doesn't look promising...

From what I've read, he wants an affordable private dental school (lol, wut?), he wants the community to pay for a dentist's education (don't we already have the stigma as being wealthy professionals? How would you convince a working class individual to think that it's appropriate for his tax dollars to fund a dentist's education while his kids can't even afford to go to community college?), he expects dentists working in Bluefield area to be financially wealthy by teaching them "wealth management" by working "backwards" (If I'm reading this right, he wants to offer patients affordable care but make the dentists a lot of money?...What kind of nonsense talk is this?!), and he wants dentists and faculty to move to the middle of nowhere in VA, where the nearest supermarket can be a roadtrip away? Wow...just wow...I want him to succeed but his goals for Bluefield aren't realistic.

Bluefield isn't going to be another ECU success story because unlike ECU, Bluefield doesn't have the financial backing from the state.

Academics routinely do this. They cloak their true ambition under some oh-so-noble banner like, "Access to care". I looked up this school. It costs 30k for undergrad tuition.
 
Academics routinely do this. They cloak their true ambition under some oh-so-noble banner like, "Access to care". I looked up this school. It costs 30k for undergrad tuition.
I just looked at their undergrad website too. This has to be the most random school ever...

http://www.bluefield.edu/school-of-dental-medicine-degree/
Lulz at their cover picture...the two guys have bothered to wear all the personal protective equipment except the most important of all...gloves (while holding the test tube)...

http://www.bluefield.edu/academics/...l-medicine/overview-for-prospective-students/
"Bluefield College School of Dental Medicine will strive to spark the interest and passion in students to serve their fellow humans in a Christ-centered way." So no Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu, or atheists allowed? Basically, accept only the rural white people, large majority of Christians in rural VA are white, and forget about people from other countries practicing other religions. Yeah, good luck with ever trying to get state funding...it's not like they would ever get it anyways even if they were inclusive...take the money, the history, the research, and the SoCal weather from Loma Linda, add some banjo music and the promises of unattainable goals, and you'll get Bluefield.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I just looked at their undergrad website too. This has to be the most random school ever...

http://www.bluefield.edu/school-of-dental-medicine-degree/
Lulz at their cover picture...the two guys have bothered to wear all the personal protective equipment except the most important of all...gloves (while holding the test tube)...

http://www.bluefield.edu/academics/...l-medicine/overview-for-prospective-students/
"Bluefield College School of Dental Medicine will strive to spark the interest and passion in students to serve their fellow humans in a Christ-centered way." So no Jews, Muslims, or atheists allowed?

lol. You are hilarious and correct.

I also think it is funny how they are like super protective over giving out information about their undergrad admission process/criteria/requirements. You have to request info. They also are super nosy about your religion, and ask for your religious affiliation, the name of the church you go to, the church activities you are involved in, etc. Weird. Just a very weird school all around. Something is fishy. But I guess as long as they get federal dollars/student loan money then I guess that's all it takes! lol
 
ah fudge, I was reading the whole thread thinking this was a new thread! and I got really excited until I saw the last post.
FML..
 
That last post is what made me excited. Sort of a joke of a school.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I agree. I don't think creating more schools will get more people to stay in these areas that lack dentists. Everybody wants to move to a bigger area after graduation. They need to create incentives to get students to stay in these areas after graduation. Perhaps loan forgiveness can get people to stay in these cities.

Great post Tandem. I don't want to see dentistry become like law.
Not everyone wants a bigger area, I hate cities and can't wait to practice rural dentistry. I like towns of only a couple thousand. I don't want to be in any place with a population more then 10 thousand. My ideal is small town of 5000 or even serve a larger area of rural towns with a 1000 or less each
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
*poof* just like that...and it's gone
this was a really weird ordeal...
 
Top