Board certification opportunity in Health Care Administration, Leadership, and Management through ABEM coming

[inspirationmd]

Expanding Opportunities: Subspecialty Certification in HALM

Get the latest updates from the American Board of Emergency Medicine.

www.abem.org

I got this in one of the periodic ABEM emails. Money grab or adjunct/replacement for MBA, MHA, etc?

Admin fellowships have been around for a long time and the conventional wisdom was always that you can get the experience without being a “trainee” for a period of time at a discount. I personally have advised my residents and fellows to pursue an MBA later and go to work as an attending rather than do one. I concede the mentorship in a fellowship may have significant intangible value but the benefits didn’t outweigh the monetary loss when these relationships could be sought while in practice. Board certification might make it worthwhile.

Curious what people think especially as EM continues to be under assault from various forces as a means to use this to diversify the practice and get time out of the ED. Assuming the acgme votes to formally recognize it of course..,

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[RustedFox]

If ACGME *doesn't* recognize this, but gives a pass to all the HCA Trashcan residencies, then there's a bigger problem.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

If ACGME *doesn't* recognize this, but gives a pass to all the HCA Trashcan residencies, then there's a bigger problem.

The announcement said the ACGME already approved it, now they’re just waiting on the ABMS.

On that note, I hope they work together with other boards to get this recognized by other specialties. I have a hard time believing this will be taken seriously (for jobs or academia) if it’s only from EM.

 

[RustedFox]

Isn't ABMS teh lolz?

 

[WilcoWorld]

ABMS is the eminent board certification organization in the US. So, if you care about certification* then ABMS is the big dog.

*I realize that this board doesn't uniformly love board certification.

 

[RustedFox]

ABMS is the eminent board certification organization in the US. So, if you care about certification* then ABMS is the big dog.

*I realize that this board doesn't uniformly love board certification.

Well that what's that board that will certify my cat (who did a residency in FM and really wants to work in the ER) and call them a diplomate - ?

 

[inspirationmd]

The announcement said the ACGME already approved it, now they’re just waiting on the ABMS.

On that note, I hope they work together with other boards to get this recognized by other specialties. I have a hard time believing this will be taken seriously (for jobs or academia) if it’s only from EM.

Missed that. You’re right. The ball is in ABMS court at this point.

I guess it depends if the other boards want to co-sponsor the subspecialty exam. ABEM hopefully realizes legitimacy would be increased with more boards signing on to do so.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Well that what's that board that will certify my cat (who did a residency in FM and really wants to work in the ER) and call them a diplomate - ?

No, ABMS does not recognize EM as a subspecialty of FM or Int. Med. They're sort of "the good guys" in this sense.

See here for more detail.

 

[gutonc]

Well that what's that board that will certify my cat (who did a residency in FM and really wants to work in the ER) and call them a diplomate - ?

NABPS

 

[evert1de101]

Funny how you never see other boards like abderm coming up with random basket-weaving fellowships that don't change clinical practice. Why not fix the specialty so it becomes a better place to work instead of perpetuating an admin-academic-industrial complex that tries to give people an excuse to leave the specialty they trained for and take an office job instead?

 

[DeadCactus]

Well that what's that board that will certify my cat (who did a residency in FM and really wants to work in the ER) and call them a diplomate - ?

NBPAS? They certify you if you've already held an ABMS certificate. They are basically trying to get around all the constant renewal requirements of and cash grabs of the ABMS certifications.

 

[RustedFox]

NABPS

Thanks.
No WAY was I gonna come up with that'n.
My brain is broken today.

I was up at 5, on the MTB trails at 8.
Gym at 2.
I have just eaten for the first time.

 

[NYEMMED]

Expanding Opportunities: Subspecialty Certification in HALM

Get the latest updates from the American Board of Emergency Medicine.

www.abem.org

I got this in one of the periodic ABEM emails. Money grab or adjunct/replacement for MBA, MHA, etc?

Admin fellowships have been around for a long time and the conventional wisdom was always that you can get the experience without being a “trainee” for a period of time at a discount. I personally have advised my residents and fellows to pursue an MBA later and go to work as an attending rather than do one. I concede the mentorship in a fellowship may have significant intangible value but the benefits didn’t outweigh the monetary loss when these relationships could be sought while in practice. Board certification might make it worthwhile.

Curious what people think especially as EM continues to be under assault from various forces as a means to use this to diversify the practice and get time out of the ED. Assuming the acgme votes to formally recognize it of course..,

Not an alternative to an MBA. It will probably mean nothing in terms of getting an admin job

 

[xaelia]

Not an alternative to an MBA. It will probably mean nothing in terms of getting an admin job

Money grab.

The experience and tangible accomplishments from either a career in medicine or from the fellowship holds all the value, the "certification" does not.

It's just a means to lock in a new revenue stream for ongoing CME/recertification.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Funny how you never see other boards like abderm coming up with random basket-weaving fellowships that don't change clinical practice. Why not fix the specialty so it becomes a better place to work instead of perpetuating an admin-academic-industrial complex that tries to give people an excuse to leave the specialty they trained for and take an office job instead?

A very similar situation is probably clinical informatics: American Board of Pathology | An ABMS Member Board

 

[xaelia]

A very similar situation is probably clinical informatics: American Board of Pathology | An ABMS Member Board

I'm board-certified in Clinical Informatics!

It was free at the time (all those various professional fees were paid for at my academic institution).

Now it's just a steady diet of fees and annoyance for unclear return on investment ....

 

[RuralEDDoc]

I would like to see what the core competencies of this certification are. They can’t be rigorous. It seems like emergency medicine is headed towards a nursing model here, with proliferation of meaningless certifications.
Check out you Chief Nursing officer, credentials are likely RN MSN DNP NEA-BC LSSMBB CPHQ. Seriously.
What’s an MD MPH MHA FACEP FAAEM to do?

 

[southerndoc]

I would like to see what the core competencies of this certification are. They can’t be rigorous. It seems like emergency medicine is headed towards a nursing model here, with proliferation of meaningless certifications.
Check out you Chief Nursing officer, credentials are likely RN MSN DNP NEA-BC LSSMBB CPHQ. Seriously.
What’s an MD MPH MHA FACEP FAAEM to do?

This is board certification. Most people don't list DABEM for Diplomate of ABEM. Most list their society.

There is already a society to get a fellow title added to your name without board certification (FACHE).

This may pad a resume, but very few people will add it to their title that haven't already done so.

On another note, this may open more avenues for C-suite positions for people who hold this. Don't underestimate the rigor of this test. Even EMS boards were extremely hard from a former (well, current -- still certified) paramedic who has spent my entire career in a pre-hospital setting or concentrating on pre-hospital treatment as a medical director. The ACHE exam to become a fellow is pretty difficult. There are many physicians that would fail it without studying for it.

 

[RuralEDDoc]

I appreciate your take SouthernDoc, and I still have a big problem with this. Board certification is only partially about demonstrating a knowledge base, its a tool to get a job and exclude others from competition for that job. Someday, a few years into the future, an extremely well qualified ER doc will hear “I’m sorry you can’t apply for this Vice-chairmanship, you’re not board certified in leadership”. Which would be asinine, and will definitely happen if leadership is labeled a medical sub speciality.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

This is board certification. Most people don't list DABEM for Diplomate of ABEM. Most list their society.

There is already a society to get a fellow title added to your name without board certification (FACHE).

This may pad a resume, but very few people will add it to their title that haven't already done so.

On another note, this may open more avenues for C-suite positions for people who hold this. Don't underestimate the rigor of this test. Even EMS boards were extremely hard from a former (well, current -- still certified) paramedic who has spent my entire career in a pre-hospital setting or concentrating on pre-hospital treatment as a medical director. The ACHE exam to become a fellow is pretty difficult. There are many physicians that would fail it without studying for it.

Yeah but a difficult test doesn’t make someone a good admin. Why not just get an MBA which is way easier?

 

[southerndoc]

I appreciate your take SouthernDoc, and I still have a big problem with this. Board certification is only partially about demonstrating a knowledge base, its a tool to get a job and exclude others from competition for that job. Someday, a few years into the future, an extremely well qualified ER doc will hear “I’m sorry you can’t apply for this Vice-chairmanship, you’re not board certified in leadership”. Which would be asinine, and will definitely happen if leadership is labeled a medical sub speciality.

The non-EM trained people probably feel the same way about EDs that require EM-boarded physicians. It closes the door for those trained in family/internal medicine and general surgery.

 

[southerndoc]

Yeah but a difficult test doesn’t make someone a good admin. Why not just get an MBA which is way easier?

I agree.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

I appreciate your take SouthernDoc, and I still have a big problem with this. Board certification is only partially about demonstrating a knowledge base, its a tool to get a job and exclude others from competition for that job. Someday, a few years into the future, an extremely well qualified ER doc will hear “I’m sorry you can’t apply for this Vice-chairmanship, you’re not board certified in leadership”. Which would be asinine, and will definitely happen if leadership is labeled a medical sub speciality.

Yeah leadership what goes that even mean. You can exclude other MDs not NPs because of residency what exactly is this leadership training?

 

[bravotwozero]

Yeah but a difficult test doesn’t make someone a good admin. Why not just get an MBA which is way easier?

Hella more expensive?

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Hella more expensive?

Most places will pay for your MBA if you are in an academic position you also get a widely recognized title

Also
“The educational program in health care administration, leadership, and management is configured in 12- and 24-month formats.”

So you need to do a year fellowship plus take an exam where they will do a 10% fail rate that you have to go out of your way to explain what this is

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Hella more expensive?

Maybe if you fully left medicine to do an in-person MBA. Most physicians would probably do an eMBA, in which case it would be cheaper to just get the degree than go to the fellowship.

Say you go for the most expensive eMBA around; that's ~$200k total for 2 years.

With the fellowship, you'd be trading 2 years of attending salary for 2 years of fellow salary (the 1-year option is if you already have an MBA/MHA, at which point this entire discussion is moot). If we assume ~$400k/yr for attendings and ~$100k/yr for fellows, you're losing around ~$600k for two years altogether.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

I'm board-certified in Clinical Informatics!

It was free at the time (all those various professional fees were paid for at my academic institution).

Now it's just a steady diet of fees and annoyance for unclear return on investment ....

How much of your time is spent working clinically vs. on informatics?

 

[sylvanthus]

Ohhhhhh hellll nawwwww.

 

[xaelia]

How much of your time is spent working clinically vs. on informatics?

Just a fraction – at all my jobs it has not been explicitly part of any FTE buy-down, just sort of an extra portfolio thing at my academic jobs. I've never held any specific title.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Just a fraction – at all my jobs it has not been explicitly part of any FTE buy-down, just sort of an extra portfolio thing at my academic jobs. I've never held any specific title.

How often, if ever, are clinical informatics grads able to fully leave clinical medicine?

 

[RustedFox]

How often, if ever, are clinical informatics grads able to fully leave clinical medicine?

Until they bring us a really good EMR, I have nothing to say.
Get cracking, Clinfotards.

 

[xaelia]

How often, if ever, are clinical informatics grads able to fully leave clinical medicine?

"Fully"? I feel like I'd lose credibility if I weren't dogfooding my own work.

But, yes, there are a lot of folks who have leveraged their informatics background into the CMIO or CTO type position – Nnaemeka Okafor at MHH and Nick Genes at Sinai being just two of my friends who spend a chunk of their time in the "C suite".

 

[gutonc]

"Fully"? I feel like I'd lose credibility if I weren't dogfooding my own work.

I've never described it this way, but this is why I continue clinical work as much as I do admin stuff...dogfooding it.

 

[RustedFox]

I've never described it this way, but this is why I continue clinical work as much as I do admin stuff...dogfooding it.

Dogfooding??

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Dogfooding??

Tech term. It means using the product you create to increase consumer confidence in it.

 

[xaelia]

Tech term. It means using the product you create to increase consumer confidence in it.

Yep.

The same could also apply to nursing and medical "leadership" that is no longer active clinically in any sufficient capacity to suffer through the pain of the policies they implement.