Boarded in IM --> Anesthesia

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Hello all,

I am a recent internal medicine residency grad and I have found myself interested in anesthesiology
I was wondering the likelihood/possibility of getting into a CA-1 position?
My residency and med school are solid mid tier university programs
My scores are 50-60th percentile on step 1-3
I am board certified in internal medicine
Thanks!

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Hello all,

I am a recent internal medicine residency grad and I have found myself interested in anesthesiology
I was wondering the likelihood/possibility of getting into a CA-1 position?
My residency and med school are solid mid tier university programs
My scores are 50-60th percentile on step 1-3
I am board certified in internal medicine
Thanks!

Don’t do it. Do a fellowship instead.

Otherwise, just email programs. There will be a bunch with open spots or programs just willing to make room to take on a board certified candidate.

I still would recommend you explore your IM subspecialty options. Pulm/CC seems like an obvious choice if you are interested in anesthesia, but don’t disregard the other options either.
 
Hello all,

I am a recent internal medicine residency grad and I have found myself interested in anesthesiology
I was wondering the likelihood/possibility of getting into a CA-1 position?
My residency and med school are solid mid tier university programs
My scores are 50-60th percentile on step 1-3
I am board certified in internal medicine
Thanks!

why would you do this??
i would say your possibility is very high if you want to. there are so many spots. anesthesiology is not competitive. being boarded in IM is a HUGE plus.
with that said would 100% not recommend.
 
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I would say you have a good possibility as well. I will represent the other side and say that Anesthesia has been good to me and fun as well. It has its moments that are work, but so does any job. You could also find a very good niche with your background if you are interested in branching out.
 
Dude are you crazy? Are you looking at the anesthesia forums right now? Just do CC fellowship or be a hospitalist. You’ll never make up the lost years of income by heading into anesthesia now.
 
Anything is possible..... you may have to sell yourself as someone who wants to do periop medicine? You may want to find a program struggling with passing rate? You may find an ivory tower who wants someone who can really run a very effective/mean PAT.
Just realize you will forgo, 3 or even 4 years of attending salary. If you have read about some of the anesthesia attendings going back as fellows and it take some adjustment..... imaging you’ll be at the bottom of that totem pole for not one, but three years.
Good luck!
 
Any specific reason you would recommend against this? My general impression has been that most people are satisfied in anesthesiology.
I have thoroughly looked into the IM specialities and none are that appealing to me.

Any recommendations on pursing this beyond sending out "cold" emails to programs?
 
Lost salary isn't necessarily an issue for me. It'd be the same situation to do a 3 year IM fellowship. Also an anesthesiologist seems to have a higher earning potential than many if not most of the IM fellowships. Although I realize things could change with CRNAs and such.....
 
Any specific reason you would recommend against this? My general impression has been that most people are satisfied in anesthesiology.
I have thoroughly looked into the IM specialities and none are that appealing to me.

Any recommendations on pursing this beyond sending out "cold" emails to programs?

Lost salary isn't necessarily an issue for me. It'd be the same situation to do a 3 year IM fellowship. Also an anesthesiologist seems to have a higher earning potential than many if not most of the IM fellowships. Although I realize things could change with CRNAs and such.....

I would highly recommend going thru this forum and also following around anesthesiologists in real life in different settings if you are really interested. it seems like there are a lot of stuff you dont know about the specialty which is fine...
if it were me id just stay in IM and work. The salary loss is A LOT. If you absolutely hate it, then do IM fellowships. If you dont think you can get into IM fellowships and hate IM, then consider Anes.

3 years of working as IM can be easily 900k lost, plenty of cush hospitalist positions out there for ~300k as im sure you know. 900k BEFORE compounding, NOT including if you take any time off for rotations, shadowing, applying, etc.

Other things to consider... Anesthesiologists work on average, long hours even as attendings compared to most fields. AAMC puts us at 61 hours per week, which is only below a few fields (i think it was vasc surg, thoracic surg, CCM). Overall salary is lower than fields like GI, cardiology, hematology, especially if you count $$ per hour instead of absolute amount, and MUCH lower than if you are procedural heavy in those fields (scope heavy GI, interventional cards, etc). Lower paying fellowships in IM is not so much because they are low paying but because they are CUSH ( low hours, low emergency) - rheum, allergy comes to mind. obviously you also have low paying ones like ID. But in any of those fields you can easily boost your income by working more. I wont be surprised if salary isn't much different from ours if they worked 60 hr a week and took weekend/night calls..

future of the field is bleak, due to CRNAs, lack of field expansion/new innovations that affects pay. Number of jobs available is much less than in medicine, so to get a decent job you'll likely move to some random area, or get a mediocre job in the location you want.

Job is stressful. you did medicine residency, do you even know how you'd like interacting with egotistic surgeons all day? also there's heavy production pressure in anesthesiology that's not really present in medicine IMO.

Daily schedule is unpredictable, can end very late, can end early. you are rarely in control. days usually start earlier than medicine as well. Most jobs have 24 hr calls which throws off sleep rhythm, similar to EM.

You can start your own clinic/practice and be the boss in medicine. can't do it in anesthesiology. you'll forever be an employee. your salary depends on the surgeon. you'll have surgeons who just like to operate on weekends. there goes your weekend. you have surgeons that dont mind starting cases at 12am. there goes your sleep, while asking why you are doing this. obviously some jobs prevent this but you may not get that job.
 
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As an anesthesiology resident, I am wondering what really seems attractive about anesthesia to you??

Is it the hours? As said above, not as great as people think. Although your call days are at least predictable.

Pay? Again as above, not the best.

Like procedures? We do a small number of procedures, and they are far less interesting when the surgeon is pushing you to shave every minute off your time with the patient.

Patient interactions better? Think again, when you have a crazy pregnant lady. Or every surgical patient that thinks their surgeon is Jesus and won’t even listen to your anesthesia consent shpeal.

Like the OR? Try interacting with the surgical team and terrible OR staff everyday.

I honestly wish I did internal medicine many days of my training. And yes, I did a prelim Medicine year and enjoyed it.
 
Any specific reason you would recommend against this? My general impression has been that most people are satisfied in anesthesiology.
I have thoroughly looked into the IM specialities and none are that appealing to me.

Any recommendations on pursing this beyond sending out "cold" emails to programs?

I did the transition and I don’t recommend it. I’ve discussed it on previous threads.

Are you a hospitalist or primary care? Part of why you are looking at anesthesia is a “grass is greener” syndrome. It’s not necessarily greener. Why did you go into IM in the first place? Answering that question is the most important thing. The 3 year fellowships obviously provide the best return on investment in earning potential...GI, cardiology, heme/onc, pulm/cc...but don’t disregard the 1 or 2 year fellowship options either. Anesthesia seems cool now, but rest assured the Saturday nights spent sitting in a cold OR are not fun.

Doing a second residency really blows. I was pretty darn burnt out by the end of it. You really need to make sure you are doing it for the right reasons and are not just going through the winter doldrums at your current job.

If you really do want to do it, cold calling is your best option. If you start now, you can have a spot secured for this July. When I did it, I contacted <10 programs and ended up interviewing at 4 or 5 with all extending me offers. It was surprisingly easy. The whole process took me less than 2 months. I doubt much has changed in the past 6 or so years.
 
Lost salary isn't necessarily an issue for me. It'd be the same situation to do a 3 year IM fellowship. Also an anesthesiologist seems to have a higher earning potential than many if not most of the IM fellowships. Although I realize things could change with CRNAs and such.....
Do a CCM fellowship instead. You get to do a lot of what we do in two years instead of three and don’t have to deal with surgeons.
Trust me on this one.
It doesn’t make you an airway expert but it improves your skills.
 
Thanks for the reply everyone!

I'm definitely aware that I may be suffering grass is greener syndrome.

I do inpatient only now. I don't hate IM and I know that every field has downsides. What draws me to anesthesia is the immediate results, interesting science, quick procedures, defined goals that are frequently accomplished (ie get a patient through surgery, intubate) vs managing chronic conditions in IM. I have generally seen high levels of job satisfaction in anesthesiologists (and even the anesthesia residents at my IM program), although I realize this it not always the case and my exposure is fairly limited compared to others on this forum.

Its not something that I am 100% set on doing. But its reassuring to know that it can be done. Thank you for the insight!
 
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Do GI. Then do your anesthesia residency. When you come out, you will be able to do scopes and provide the anesthesia for them at the same time, billing for everything. You're in a unique position, don't let this opportunity go to waste. You'll be the envy of every scope monkey across this land.
 
Thanks for the reply everyone!

I'm definitely aware that I may be suffering grass is greener syndrome.

I do inpatient only now. I don't hate IM and I know that every field has downsides. What draws me to anesthesia is the immediate results, interesting science, quick procedures, defined goals that are frequently accomplished (ie get a patient through surgery, intubate) vs managing chronic conditions in IM. I have generally seen high levels of job satisfaction in anesthesiologists (and even the anesthesia residents at my IM program), although I realize this it not always the case and my exposure is fairly limited compared to others on this forum.

Its not something that I am 100% set on doing. But its reassuring to know that it can be done. Thank you for the insight!

Def agree with some of the positives you mentioned. they are what i like about anes as well. i found it rly boring when i give a patient anti hypertensive and have them followup. takes forever to see results.
at the same time, i think the key is to make sure those positives > the negatives to you. you can have some of those by doing a fellowship as well. ie GI (scope some days, clinic other days, mix of quick procedures, seeing results, and clinic stuff, without the downsides that come with anes)
 
Finished peds, am doing anesthesia now. I love the essence of it, but the day to day grind and the things other people have mentioned (personalities, hospital administration stuff/residency busywork) are getting older and older with each passing day. Don't regret doing it, but definitely would advise other people to get tons of OR exposure before pulling the trigger. Intubating and lining is awesome. Sitting around for 8 hours in a stable case afterward and wishing you were home less so.

For me, the financials actually work out in my favor over a 30 year career given the low reimbursement of the peds subspecialties. Might not be the case for you.
 
Thanks for the reply everyone!

I'm definitely aware that I may be suffering grass is greener syndrome.

I do inpatient only now. I don't hate IM and I know that every field has downsides. What draws me to anesthesia is the immediate results, interesting science, quick procedures, defined goals that are frequently accomplished (ie get a patient through surgery, intubate) vs managing chronic conditions in IM. I have generally seen high levels of job satisfaction in anesthesiologists (and even the anesthesia residents at my IM program), although I realize this it not always the case and my exposure is fairly limited compared to others on this forum.

Its not something that I am 100% set on doing. But its reassuring to know that it can be done. Thank you for the insight!
Do 2 years of critical care fellowship. You'll have a much better future than an anesthesiologist, and you'll be able to do almost everything you listed above.

My job satisfaction is much higher in the ICU than in the OR. Can't remember the last time I danced in the OR because I had fixed a patient (but it was just last month in the ICU).
 
I would highly, HIGHLY recommend you find real life anesthesiologists to talk to and shadow. SDN is far more negative about the field than what I’ve encountered in real life.
 
Finished peds, am doing anesthesia now. I love the essence of it, but the day to day grind and the things other people have mentioned (personalities, hospital administration stuff/residency busywork) are getting older and older with each passing day. Don't regret doing it, but definitely would advise other people to get tons of OR exposure before pulling the trigger. Intubating and lining is awesome. Sitting around for 8 hours in a stable case afterward and wishing you were home less so.

For me, the financials actually work out in my favor over a 30 year career given the low reimbursement of the peds subspecialties. Might not be the case for you.

def worth it if going from peds to anes

I would highly, HIGHLY recommend you find real life anesthesiologists to talk to and shadow. SDN is far more negative about the field than what I’ve encountered in real life.
talk to a lot of real life anesthesiologists. also another thing to do (kind of early yes) is if you know where you really want to work or live (specific region), take a look at job postings, try to find out where residents from programs in that region found jobs. because that's likely going to be you in 3 years. there may be a lot of old folks on this forum making 500+ with 10 weeks vacation, but is that going to be YOU?

Honestly SDN is pretty comparable to what i experienced in real life except it realy varied per institution. some places are just miserable. everyone hated their job and regret it. other places 50%+ like it
 
Do a CCM fellowship instead. You get to do a lot of what we do in two years instead of three and don’t have to deal with surgeons.
Trust me on this one.
It doesn’t make you an airway expert but it improves your skills.

No way should he just do a 2 year CCM fellowship without the pulm. The pulm board certification adds so many more job options now and in the future for an extra year.
 
I am not an anesthesiologist-intensivist IRL. I just play one on SDN, super-convincingly. They nominated me for an Oscar, right after Lady Gaga.
 
It also takes away 6-9 months of ICU training.

I don’t know what the training is, but the point of it is to get a job and establish a career. Forgoing the pulmonary component when it is readily available to you would be extremely shortsighted for future career prospects, in my opinion.
 
I don’t know what the training is, but the point of it is to get a job and establish a career. Forgoing the pulmonary component when it is readily available to you would be extremely shortsighted for future career prospects, in my opinion.
You are right (from a point of view). However, I have a feeling the OP would have a much easier time getting into a good 2-year program.
 
I have a friend who was a practicing pulmonary intensivist, who is getting ready to start anesthesia residency this summer. An IM resident wanting to go on to anesthesia afterwards is not the craziest thing I've seen. I think during training, I encountered three other anesthesiologists who initially trained in IM (one did CC, one CT, one Pain afterwards), and I've met several more on here or other forums.

If general IM is not something you're willing to do after training, and you don't like any of the IM fellowships, and you can get some actual anesthesiology experience to see if what we do is interesting, then go for it.
 
Do GI. Then do your anesthesia residency. When you come out, you will be able to do scopes and provide the anesthesia for them at the same time, billing for everything. You're in a unique position, don't let this opportunity go to waste. You'll be the envy of every scope monkey across this land.

Nah, we’re happy with what we do. Why train for something a nurse can do.
 
I have a friend who was a practicing pulmonary intensivist, who is getting ready to start anesthesia residency this summer. An IM resident wanting to go on to anesthesia afterwards is not the craziest thing I've seen. I think during training, I encountered three other anesthesiologists who initially trained in IM (one did CC, one CT, one Pain afterwards), and I've met several more on here or other forums.

If general IM is not something you're willing to do after training, and you don't like any of the IM fellowships, and you can get some actual anesthesiology experience to see if what we do is interesting, then go for it.

They definitely exist and I've met like 5 of them. But all are on the older side. I don't know what it is like back then (though Anes residency was only 3 years back then) but I haven't met any residents in my generation who came from IM. I'm sure they exist. Very few finish an entire residency before switching . Good number switch from surgical fields mid way.
 
They definitely exist and I've met like 5 of them. But all are on the older side. I don't know what it is like back then (though Anes residency was only 3 years back then) but I haven't met any residents in my generation who came from IM. I'm sure they exist. Very few finish an entire residency before switching . Good number switch from surgical fields mid way.

The ones I knew personally all trained in the 2000s, so not all that long ago. Now that I'm thinking more about it, I think some of the older guys from fellowship were IM first, from the early 90s. All of them completed IM, and usually went straight from residency to residency. Back in the Army, the guy coming to replace me when I separated was fresh from anesthesia residency, and I think he was an IM resident when I was an anesthesia resident.
 
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