Books for Surgery

laumans

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    Hi there,

    can anyone give me a recommendation for a great surgery book I can use during my current surgery rotation ? It should cover general surgery and the most important sub-disciplines like traumatology etc.

    It shouldn?t be too comprehensive since I am fed up with surgery books that don?t tell me what I need to know.

    Thnaks, Marius
     
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    bcc5592

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      Everyone told me to get Surgical Recall prior to third year, but I personally didn't encounter a more useless book with respect to the three important aspects of third year: 1) managing patients 2) answering pimp questions 3) taking the shelf exam. I started to sell it after third year, but felt guilty inflicting it on someone else.
      My advice to all my friends in the aftermath of the surgery rotation was:
      MONT REID HANDOOK They all agreed wholeheartedly that it was the bomb. It is short, sweet and to the point, has all the important info, fits in your pocket, and includes clinically useful information. I
      don't think it is significantly more expensive than recall.
      My 2 cents.
       

      mrp

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        lawrence: essentials of general surgery for studying at night, surgical recall for carrying around in coat during day and studying in 5 minute increments.

        also, I completed both pre-test as well as appleton and lange question books prior to the shelf.

        -mrp
         

        Winged Scapula

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          Now while I agree that Surgical Recall has the best answers for most commonly pimped questions, I will echo loudly the recommendation for the Mount Reid Handbook. Easy to read, valuable information and I still use it.

          If you want "practical information" - ie, writing post op notes, etc. get the Surgical Intern Pocket Survival Guide. Only about $8.00 and well worth every penny for a beginning student.

          Best of luck.
           

          Russ Cowles

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            I have a recommendation.

            Try "Dunn's Surgical Diagnosis and Management". It is a book published in the UK (I'm studyingin England, so I use this book). It covers everything I have EVER been asked. It's size is about the same as the pocket edition of Robbins Pathology or Guyton Physiology. About $25. ISBN 0-86542-718-6


            Russ Cowles
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            Hannibal Gabriel

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              Allow me to join the chorus: get Lawrence's Essentials of General Surgery and Lawrence's Essentials of Surgical Subspecialties. Read those. Carry Surgical Recall in your pocket for pimping preparation. Surgeons love to ask you useless, pointless crap during surgery, and when the crap starts getting neck-deep, Surgical Recall will be your shovel. I personally got an 82 on the surgery shelf exam doing this. Not spectacular by any means, but it worked. Your mileage may vary.
               

              PimplePopperMD

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                Hi all...

                Just starting surgery on Monday, and was wondering if anyone had any recommendations on books. I've been told that recall is great... but of course, I'll need something of more substance. Any ideas out there?

                (any hints on the surg rotation?)

                Thanks all!
                 

                Winged Scapula

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                  Originally posted by PimplePopperMD:
                  •Hi all...

                  Just starting surgery on Monday, and was wondering if anyone had any recommendations on books. I've been told that recall is great... but of course, I'll need something of more substance. Any ideas out there?

                  (any hints on the surg rotation?)

                  Thanks all!•

                  For handbooks, the Mount Reid Surgical Handbook is excellent and widely used.

                  Surgical Recall is great of course and contains lots of favorite pimping questions.

                  As for a text, it depends on what your school requires. Some use Lawrence which I find a bit basic but it is adequate for a med school rotation. Greenfield or any other "real" surgical text are probably too much for you unless you plan on a surgical residency. Ask some of your 4th years what the professors like to use and get that textbook. Current Surgical Treatment and Diagnosis is good and easy to read, but it includes very little about the practice of surgery (see if your profs will want you to know details about procedures; usually only minor ones are important).

                  Best of luck...time for bed for me. its 9 pm and I have to start in 8 hours! :eek:
                   

                  tussy

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                    Talking to students are your own school is usually best, as responsibilities vary greatly from school to school. I liked surg recall for pimping questions, and I liked Lawrence for basic reading. Your anatomy texts come in useful as well.

                    AS for tips for surviving your rotation:
                    1. Always be in a good mood and try to get along with your team, no matter how tired and cranky you are.
                    2. Get the OR schedule ahead of time and read up on the cases before (ie review the anatomy, read the pertinent chapter in recall etc).
                    3. Spend some extra time the first few days and get yourself familiar with all the patients on your service.
                    4. Just do your best - no one can demand any more from you.

                    Surgery isn't as bad as all the rumors. You might actually enjoy it!
                     
                    During medical school, I really liked using Surgical Recall too. I bought the Mt. Reid book as well and it's a great book, but I hardly used it as a medical student. For those doing a sub-i in surgery, Surgery On Call is a pretty good book. The little red Surgery Intern Book is also a handy pamphlet to have around. This pamphlet will go through how to manage many of the things that happen on call, how to write up pre-op, post-op, admission orders, pre-op bowel preps, etc. Many of the monkeys (medical students) here have both the Surgical Recall book and the Surgery Intern pamphlet. ;)

                    As the intern of the surgical team this month, this is my ideal medical student:

                    1. Know the patient!!! Know his hospital course, what meds he is on (especially anticoagulants/antibiotics), CBC/Chem7/PT/INR, know what his GI status is (nausea, vomiting, bowel sounds, bowel movements), know how much is coming in and out from the patient (NGT, JP, Foley, etc.)?

                    2. Be on time!!

                    3. Read up on the surgeries the night before. The attendings always ask the same questions over and over again. There are only so many questions you can ask about an appy or a choley.

                    Ideally, you would know how to suture and tie before your clerkship. I don't expect any of the third years to know how to suture, but you can practice how to tie anywhere. Remember to practice tying a knot WITH gloves on.
                     
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                    I didn't notice Tussy's post when I began typing. I guess the point is that the same things are expected of med students no matter where you are. Surgery isn't that bad once you get used to the crappy call schedule. I'd rather do 10 surgery progress notes than 5 medicine progress notes/novels. :D
                     

                    PimplePopperMD

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                      Thank you all very much for all the good advice! I'm sure a good attitude is hard to muster at 5am, but maybe coffee will find it in me.

                      The point that there are only so many questions that can be asked about a particular condition is a good point, that I frequently forget when inundated and overwhelmed. Thanks for reminding me... i'll continue to remind myself of this!

                      Anyone use "Surgery Attending Rounds"?
                       

                      maq_maq

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                        does any body know a concised surgery textbook that is enough for MS-III. I read some subjects from Current surgical diagnosis but i think it is a vage book.
                        It is very long and i think it is not enough fo Urology.

                        please help me :eek:
                         

                        Galaxian

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                          Put that book down!

                          Pick up Lawrence: Essentials of General Surgery, its an easy read for the medical student, and it breaks things down to understandable bits.

                          Get Surgical recall, to pimp yourself, and to survive the OR pimp sessions.

                          Always know the anatomy for the case you are going into. You could try and read Zollinger and Zollinger's Atlas of Surgical Procedures. This book not only has drawings of relevant anatomy and the procedure, but discusses pre and postoperative care. Don't buy it, just peruse it in the department's library.

                          Do questions in Appleton and Lange's Surgery question book.

                          You should do well with this approach, it certainly worked for me!:cool:
                           

                          gtb

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                            I agree with the Lawrence textbook, "Essentials of general surgery." I especially encourage you to work the multiple choice questions at the end of each chapter and to read the oral examination/study questions as well. I did not read each chapter of the book, but I did work all the questions and did well on the shelf.

                            Two small pocket books I used throughout surgery were, "Surgery - 2004 Current Clinical Strategies," and, "The Surgical Intern Pocket Survival Guide." These have lots of tips and trivia that I noticed on the shelf. I got a copy of the "ABSITE Killer" from my intern. This was a xeroxed copy of a small study guide for a test that the surgical residents have to take every year. This book was loaded with the trivia that shows up on the shelf. Search the web for this title.

                            Good Luck.
                            G
                             

                            supercut

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                              I liked "Surgical Pearls" for my clerkship. It's pocket size, basic enough for the 3rd year student, and covers a number of areas (especially useful when I wound up having my cases that I planned on scrubbing for the day changed at the last minute and didn't have time to go somewhere to look stuff up).

                              I preferred Netter for review of anatomy, but then we didn't have easy access to a surgical atlas.
                               

                              txdoc2b

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                                :confused: Can any one help me? I am 1 month away from taking my surgery shelf and I am very nervous. I keep hearing how hard it is and people say it's even more difficult than the IM shelf, which I didn't do very well on At ALL.

                                Any suggestions on what question books are good. I have been using pre-test and have liked it a lot, but I have heard that Appleton and Lange is also good. Any opinions on these, which one is best or others? Any other tips for this test, what should I focus my studying on?

                                Thanks! :horns:
                                 
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                                  http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?threadid=61492&highlight=sugery+shelf

                                  http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?threadid=111927
                                  (searching the old posts really offers lots of information, folks.)

                                  Yes, it's not surgery, for the most part. During my clerkship I read most of blueprints and recall (= one book at home and one for my coat pocket). Since we had an oral exam, I also read Platnum Vignettes (much better than UCV) and the Blueprints case book, both of which I highly recommend for preparing for an oral exam but certainly help with general knowledge for the shelf. I also did pretest (yes, Pretest is hard). (I personally am not a fan of appleton and lange.)

                                  Oh, I missed the part about you not doing well on the medicine shelf. I think the surgery shelf is about as difficult (wouldn't say it was any harder, however). Of course I have scored within two points of the same grade on the Medicine, Peds, and Surgery shelf exams. I'm hoping that since medicine shelf, you've learned a bit more just by being in the hospital. Since you have a month, I say really try to get in as many of the above suggestions as possible -- you'll need more than just questions at this point.
                                   

                                  Kalel

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                                    We didn't have a surgery "shelf" exam, but I liked NMS for surgery and Surgical Recall for my surgery rotation exam. I've heard that blueprints surgery is one of the poorer books of the series, and although NMS is tough to read cover to cover, I was never able to find a good, concise review book for surgery. Surgical Recall is reccomended by most students/residents, it's great for reading during down-time while waiting for the OR to start and it has most of the info that you will ever be pimped on.
                                     

                                    snowman8

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                                      Highly recommend Recall.....good for pimp questions in the OR and also for the Shelf. Just took the exam and can't think of too many questions that could not have been answered from that book. Probably should supplment it with NMS for the major topics like all of GI (GB, SBO, ect....), Thyroid, ect... Out of the supspecs, know urology, cardio, and trauma. Couple a peds ?'s, but just read recall. Apple and Lange ? book is also good to supplement your reading.
                                       

                                      secretwave101

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                                        Study medicine. Especially GI med.

                                        In 100 questions, I didn't get a single "which approach" or, "what kind of knot" type of question. There were some basic healing questions, and prophylactic antibio kinda things, but rarely was it purely surgical.

                                        The test is medical, only somewhat surgical - that's the secret.
                                         
                                        Originally posted by doc05
                                        read schwartz

                                        Uh... :confused:

                                        It helps if you've already finished your Medicine rotation, since a lot of the shelf is management of patients post-op. I was surprised at how little actual anatomy or surgical technique was on the test. My particular shelf exam (taken in January this year) was kinda heavy on trauma, though.
                                         
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                                        bobbyseal

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                                          I just got my surgery shelf score back, and I'm happy to say that I beat the national average.

                                          I think I posted on another thread, but I would suggest reading Lawrence pretty well. Also, remember that surgery isn't just general, so know some basic thoracic surgery (esophageal and lung not much in the way of cardiac), a little transplant, some ortho, some neuro, some uro, some pedi. I didn't notice much ent on it.

                                          I used both pre-test and a&l to study. I of course blew off the subspecialty stuff which was a bit of a problem. I probably could have done a bit better had I studied for that.

                                          Otherwise, pay attention on rounds. Ask questions in the OR. Don't ask questions about what they're doing during the case. The shelf doesn't expect you to know how to operate, but it does expect you to know how to manage a patient post op and deal with post op/pre op complications. So, ask about what you would do if there's a wound infection, o2 sats drop, etc.

                                          Finally, be positive at all times during the rotation. During didactic conferences, answer questions. I prescribe the shotgun approach of pimp answering. Throw out as many answers as possible, you may wing a bird here and there. If you don't know, it's more than likely the person sitting next to you doesn't either. Just speak up and then the attendings will think you're interested and paying attention. The people who don't do so well are the meek and mild people who may know all the stuff, but are too shy to answer. You'll find that as you go through rotations, being shy gets you no where. More and more I'm finding that 3rd year is like trying to pick up someone in a bar. You'll get shot down a lot, but you need to be so confident that it doesn't shake you when you don't "score."
                                           

                                          roady

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                                            ESPECIALLY IF YOU STRUGGLED YOUR A$$ OFF TO SURVIVE THROUGH THE 1st 2 YRS OF MED SCHOOL:

                                            How do you study for the surgery rotation shelf!!?? (What books/how the hell did you find the time???/what to focus on)???

                                            THANK YOU!!!
                                             

                                            edmadison

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                                              One of the keys is to study both medicine and surgery. There is a huge amount of straight medicine on the surg sheld exam. They typically don't ask you questions about incisions or surgical routes. You will get questions about wound healing, complications, indications for surgery....

                                              Ed
                                               

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                                                along with ed's response, i think it's important to remember this - ALWAYS do your ABC's... i had a handful of questions like "patient comes in with penetrating trauma to the abdomen... blah blah blah... what do you do next?" the tempting answer is DPL or FAST or ExLap... the correct answer is "airway". =)

                                                that said, methinks Surg. Recall is good for between cases; do questions (i preferred appleton & lange...); and try to read up on patients / cases.

                                                -t
                                                 

                                                DarksideAllstar

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                                                  Daiphon said:
                                                  along with ed's response, i think it's important to remember this - ALWAYS do your ABC's... i had a handful of questions like "patient comes in with penetrating trauma to the abdomen... blah blah blah... what do you do next?" the tempting answer is DPL or FAST or ExLap... the correct answer is "airway". =)

                                                  that said, methinks Surg. Recall is good for between cases; do questions (i preferred appleton & lange...); and try to read up on patients / cases.

                                                  -t

                                                  How do you think the A&L questions compared to the shelf? I just finished my Trauma/ICU rotation, but I still stuggled with a lot of the A&L questions (the Lawrence book doesnt do a great job with abdominal trauma, and some of the questions just seemed plain random). Any helpful tips (aside from studying medicine, which I have been doing :thumbup: ) would be greatly appreciated.
                                                   

                                                  Daiphon

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                                                    i thought A&L was somewhat similar to the shelf; definately moreso than the other clerkship A&L's...

                                                    as for other tips, well - study medicine (which you're doing), and other than that, i can't think of much else. one of my classmates (who took a different exam than i) thought it was useful to understand when a problem ceases to be medical and becomes surgical (or vice versa).

                                                    my $.02
                                                    -t
                                                     

                                                    MedPuck

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                                                      Which medicine sources would best supplement surgery review books/questions to best prepare one for the surgery shelf? I am wondering how in depth I should go considering the reading for surgery alone is lengthy. Are the Washington Manual or Mosby's Care of the Medical Pt. appropriate or do you suggest other sources? Thanks everyone.

                                                      mp
                                                       

                                                      roady

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                                                        Thanks a lot for everyone's responses--very helpful stuff.

                                                        In terms of specific books, I have heard good things now about A&L, Pretest, on the QBOOKS SIDE, and First Aid for Surgery, Recall, Blueprints, NMS Surgery, BRS Surgery, and Case Files: General Surgery on the TEXTBOOKS SIDE...

                                                        $HIAT! That is a lot of book in the 5 weeks I have left!!! Would folks--especially those who have struggled in the 1st 2 years as I originally asked, and ALSO, those who have just taken the surgery shelf and have that fresh hindsight wisdom--please weigh in on what's highest-yield and reasonable...
                                                        I mean, there are also lectures these people are giving to go over..when am I ever going to find the time for everything!!??

                                                        Thanks a lot! :luck:
                                                         

                                                        ears

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                                                          I just took it in June; here are my thoughts.

                                                          Pick one question book. I used A&L and Pretest, and thought they were both only OK, but they were better than nothing. I don't think both were needed; if I were picking only one, I'd probably choose A&L.

                                                          Pick a good review book. I don't really have one to recommend; I did all of my studying from the Lawerence books, and I did most of it over the course of our twelve-week rotation. I don't know that you'd do well to start on that with only a few weeks to go. (But if you were in a samurai mood, you could hit the high yield topics in Lawerence, which would certainly help.)

                                                          As for what to concentrate on... for each of the surgical areas, make sure you know what the diseases are, how they present, what the treatment options are, and what are the complications from the surgery that they do. Unless you've been comatose for your entire rotation, you probably already know a lot of that stuff pretty well.

                                                          High yield topics, as has been pointed out, are trauma (remember ABCDE), shock, fluid & electrolytes, and tissue healing. I'm sure all of these topics are covered in any of the decent review books; I KNOW they're covered adequately in Lawrence.

                                                          Whenever the surgery shelf comes up, people trot out the old canard about "You need to study medicine!" This is BS. All of the questions were about surgical management. Not about the operation itself, but about the management of the patients before, during, and after their surgery. I think a surgeon would consider those issues non-surgical at his/her peril.

                                                          But mostly, relax. You want to be calm.
                                                           

                                                          longwoodguy

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                                                            How do you study for the surgery shelf? Simple, take your medicine rotation first! :laugh:

                                                            Seriously though, recall is really only good for wards stuff and pimping. Do QUESTION books to prep for the shelf. :thumbup:
                                                             

                                                            lilycat

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                                                              To answer the OP -- according to my friends who just took the surgery shelf, they recommended Surgical Recall especially in the last month up to the shelf, and a question book, either A&L or Pretest. Some people also recommended Pretest Medicine, or at least reviewing Pocket Medicine if you have the time for it.

                                                              My question for people -- how helpful is it to have Lawrence? I have Pretest, A&L, Surgical Recall and NMS Surgery all thanks to friends -- do I really need to buy Lawrence in addition to all that? Thanks in advance.
                                                               

                                                              daisygirl

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                                                                I kind of need some reassurance here, even though my question has been discussed ad-nauseum. I plan on using Lawrence and A&L only for surgery- but is this enough? This is my first clerkship, and being somewhat still traumatized from step one, I'm a bit nervous. I don't have enough time to try to study 'medicine' since I barely have the energy to read at the end of the day. Thanks so much for any advice :)
                                                                 

                                                                grayce79

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                                                                  I just took the surgery shelf. My recommendation is to use First Aid for Surgery Clerkship. This book specifically addresses in the preface that the shelf exam covers a lot of medicine. It is very readable and I felt well-prepared for the shelf. (I haven't gotten my grade back yet.) It looks big, but many of the chapters are subspecialty chapters that you would not read for the shelf (just if you are doing an elective or something). Additionally, I thought the questions out of BRS are good practice questions. You can also go onto the NBME website to get a breakdown of what will be on the exam and they also have a few practice questions. The biggest problem that I had was running out of time! (and I am usually a very fast test taker.)
                                                                   
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