Break it down for me please...MD vs DO

[life_saver]

The post was misleading. But honestly, what rock would someone have had to crawl out from under to not know what a MD can do? But they have somehow ended up on SDN?]


I guess some of us are just spending most of out time studying, and in our prereq's, and with our family and friends.
BTW...SDN is designed to help answer questions for those of us who are "under rocks" most of our lives...

So are you saying you don't know what a MD does? But you have MD in your avatar, you have children so I'm guessing you've been to a doctors office and since MD's make up 95% of the physician population in this fine country, I'm also going to assume those were the initials on your docs coat. So what I was getting at was the real purpose of the thread was either to find out what a DO is or TROLL. Good luck in your endeavors.

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[Dookter]

I suggest you do a search to read some actually reasonable explanations of MDs vs DOs. Auron's post is horribly skewed (talking about DO's "better understanding" and the like) and simply doesn't paint a fair picture of the distinctions.

Agreed.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

You're aspiring towards medical school and can't use the SEARCH function?

Come now, vbulletin 2.0's search function is a piece of garbage.

It solely exists so that you can yell at noobs "use the search function"

 

[TheAmazingGOB]

Even most DDSs earn as much or more than most MDs

I love this theory because it's far from the truth (unless you are assuming most MDs are in family practice). I think if you actually look up the numbers you will be surprised.

Now if we are talking hours worked, then the joke is DEFINATELY on the MDs. But I digress, as this thread is about MD vs. DO.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

So are you saying you don't know what a MD does? But you have MD in your avatar, you have children so I'm guessing you've been to a doctors office and since MD's make up 95% of the physician population in this fine country, I'm also going to assume those were the initials on your docs coat. So what I was getting at was the real purpose of the thread was either to find out what a DO is or TROLL. Good luck in your endeavors.

Don't think hes a troll. Usually DO threads are straight to the troll point. I think this guy is clueless. But not a troll.

 

[rowdyrock]

Probably. Regardless of what qualities DO has, and regardless of whether this stigma is warranted or not, there is a chance you would encounter MDs who have disdain for DOs. Then again you might encounter ones who are more open minded. But I'd say the former more than the latter.

I disagree with your last sentence. I have encountered far more MDs who consider DOs nothing but their equals than I have that have disdain for DOs.

And to counter another comment by you ER, there are many people that I have met that CHOSE to be DOs, it was not their "backup".

Not trying to start a fight--this is just what I have gathered from talking to many people on the subject.

 

[Law2Doc]

I disagree with your last sentence. I have encountered far more MDs who consider DOs nothing but their equals than I have that have disdain for DOs.

Depends on the region you are in and the age of the physicians. Older docs recall DOs from back in the day when they did not have equal privileges and worked in their own hospitals. And some parts of the nation have few DOs, and so some folks form their own unflattering opinions without having ever worked with them.

 

[Jack Daniel]

The difference is HUGE:

MD: You have to work hard to be a member of AOA.
DO: You have to work hard not to be a member of AOA.

 

[spicedmanna]

OOOPs...I may have opened up a can, sorry. I was unclear of the difference...obviously . I didn't mean to get everyone's feather ruffled,,just an explanation.

Next time, PLEASE do a search. You'll find more threads than you can read in one sitting about your question and other questions related to it. This topic has been completely done to death...several times over.

Obviously it seems that those who are allopathic are sorta looking down on DO. that's what I am getting. So if I don't get in to M.D. and have to go to DO..will I be looked down on by the med field and patients?

The generally poor attitudes you are seeing and the blatant discrimination you are seeing is predominately associated with premedical students, old school allopathic doctors (they remember a time when DO's weren't complete physicians), and perhaps areas that don't have that many DO's (they don't know what DO's are). This is not to say that prejudicial thinking and discrimination doesn't occur later on in the field (remember, DO's are still the minority, although they are fast-growing), it probably does exist, only on a much smaller scale, if at all, and is usually the result of inaccurate information and remedied by appropriate education. So, yes, you might be looked down on by some people, but you know, whether it is DO, or something else, some people tend to be prejudicial and will often discriminate with one thing or another. There's always something that can be picked on, if you are looking to do so. So, whatever.

Anyway, later down the field, there isn't the same tension between DO's and MD's you see here in the pre- forums; they tend to work pretty seamlessly together as there is essentially no difference in how the two practice in the field. Remember, all physicians practice to a common standard of care. What is important isn't the degree you have as how good of a doctor you are based on outcome, your attitude, the care that you actually give, and perhaps word of mouth. Honestly, most people won't know if you are a DO or an MD, just that you are a physician and you are giving them care. I doubt that DO's are hurting for business any more than most MD's. Indeed, OMT is so popular right now, there is a wait list for treatment. Will some patients be confused about DO? Yes. This is easily remedied, however.

Oh, whatever, I written similar posts before. I give up. Do some physician-shadowing, both MD and DO to get a fuller picture.

 

[medhacker]

I love this theory because it's far from the truth (unless you are assuming most MDs are in family practice). I think if you actually look up the numbers you will be surprised.

Now if we are talking hours worked, then the joke is DEFINATELY on the MDs. But I digress, as this thread is about MD vs. DO.

On the other hand, I do not think, I know the majority are in primary care
Look at figure 3 of this AAMC publication

https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...version67.pdf&prd_id=160&prv_id=190&pdf_id=67

 

[YupGypsy]

DOs have fought for full eye-surgery rights and have won Oklahoma.

 

[Schaden Freud]

People tend to justify the path they've been forced to take by giving it the appearance of being freely chosen. How many people would really admit that they only became DO's because they bombed the MCAT?

I disagree with your last sentence. I have encountered far more MDs who consider DOs nothing but their equals than I have that have disdain for DOs.

And to counter another comment by you ER, there are many people that I have met that CHOSE to be DOs, it was not their "backup".

Not trying to start a fight--this is just what I have gathered from talking to many people on the subject.

 

[TobyFlenderson]

Come now, vbulletin 2.0's search function is a piece of garbage.

It solely exists so that you can yell at noobs "use the search function"

I agree. The search function on this site is pretty bad. And you're right, 10 bucks says 99% of the people who yell at people to use the search function don't even use it themselves.

 

[rowdyrock]

People tend to justify the path they've been forced to take by giving it the appearance of being freely chosen. How many people would really admit that they only became DO's because they bombed the MCAT?

I figured someone would say this. I am sure some people claim it was their first choice and don't mean it---but I am also sure many are being honest. I do not think the people I have talked to that say they chose DO over MD are lying...but I cannot know for sure. But it is naive to think that NO ONE would actually choose DO.
And perhaps I give people too much credit, but I believe most would admit if it was their last choice--Personally I am completely honest about my situation and how I arrived here.

 

[TheAmazingGOB]

On the other hand, I do not think, I know the majority are in primary care
Look at figure 3 of this AAMC publication

https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...version67.pdf&prd_id=160&prv_id=190&pdf_id=67

Meh, depends on how you look at the numbers. The majority of doctors are specialists (of some kind) while the "specialty" with the most doctors is family practice.

I wonder if the dental threads have DMD vs. DDS discussions....

 

[Law2Doc]

I wonder if the dental threads have DMD vs. DDS discussions....

I don't think it's the same -- it's more like JD and LLB distinction, isn't it? (i.e. some schools give different letters, but it's all within the same profession, and no real distinction). I don't think DMD and DDS are under different governing organizations, with different licensing exams and espousing different philosophies, as MD and DO are. They are thus not competing separate fields.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Generally MD vs DO threads get shut down as a result of flaming between the two camps. Which is why you are getting the dead horse and "do a search" responses you are getting. Read more, post less on this topic.

For example, the SDN Mentor Forum has an Osteopathic Medicine thread. If the OP isn't a troll, s/he may find answers there, and maybe for others that actually want to know what they are talking about when they try to argue the differences/similarities.

Schaden, I don't question that some people will justify their DO route as choice when maybe they would have gone MD otherwise, but outside of places like Boston, people are very comfortable & familiar with DO's and I do believe there are many people that choose that route over MD intentionally. One way to support this theory that it isn't because of lower numbers is to look at them. I know of a lot of people accepted into and planning to attend DO schools this year with MCAT scores over 30 and GPA's over 3.7.

 

[TobyFlenderson]

I don't think it's the same -- it's more like JD and LLB distinction, isn't it? (i.e. some schools give different letters, but it's all within the same profession, and no real distinction). I don't think DMD and DDS are under different governing organizations, with different licensing exams and espousing different philosophies, as MD and DO are. They are thus not competing separate fields.

You are correct. DMD and DDS are viewed as completely identical degrees. It's a historical/formality thing in the name only.

 

[foofish]

The post was misleading. But honestly, what rock would someone have had to crawl out from under to not know what a MD can do? But they have somehow ended up on SDN?

Heh...the same people who post things like, "I am a high school drop out and am a convicted felon...what are my chances of getting into med school?" It's just that some random kid who decided 5 minutes ago that they're premed could read that post and think the only way to become a surgeon is to be a DO. No hating on DO intended at all, just on misinformation.

About the DDS vs MD/DO thing, every time I see my dentist she tries to convince me that I really want to become a dentist and be livin' it up. But man, it's teeth. *shudder*

 

[drlisa0318]

DOs have fought for full eye-surgery rights and have won Oklahoma.

Actually, it's OD's that you're talking about here in Oklahoma. Just look up lasik surgery for Oklahoma - you'll see that quite a few that offer it (particularly the one's that advertise for really low prices) are OD's. Personally, when I have lasik done later this year, I'm choosing a PHYSICIAN (MD or DO) and not some optometrist.

DO's, being physicians, have had those rights all along.

 

[Schaden Freud]

Do we have the faint glimmer of a starting "DO v. OD" thread? Let the battle of the palindromes ensue!

Actually, it's OD's that you're talking about here in Oklahoma. Just look up lasik surgery for Oklahoma - you'll see that quite a few that offer it (particularly the one's that advertise for really low prices) are OD's. Personally, when I have lasik done later this year, I'm choosing a PHYSICIAN (MD or DO) and not some optometrist.

DO's, being physicians, have had those rights all along.

 

[cyrille104]

Obviously it seems that those who are allopathic are sorta looking down on DO.

Actually I think it's just that those who are PRE-allopathic look down on DO until they are humbled by med school

 

[Dookter]

Do we have the faint glimmer of a starting "DO v. OD" thread? Let the battle of the palindromes ensue!

We could call it "DOOD" and tell people to pick a side...

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Actually I think it's just that those who are PRE-allopathic look down on DO until they are humbled by med school

nahh

 

[medhacker]

Actually I think it's just that those who are PRE-allopathic look down on DO until they are humbled by med school

Right on!

Very consistent with the real world outisde SDN twilight zone

 

[Dookter]

Right on!

Very consistent with the real world outisde SDN twilight zone

I think the reality outside of SDN is that most people do not even know what a DO is....so they don't have an opinion either way...

 

[medhacker]

I think the reality outside of SDN is that most people do not even know what a DO is....so they don't have an opinion either way...

Most people don't

But for those who do, the overwhelming (almost entire) majority do not reflect the look-down on DOs attitude you see @SDN pre-allo, in my experience.

 

[TheAmazingGOB]

I don't think it's the same -- it's more like JD and LLB distinction, isn't it? (i.e. some schools give different letters, but it's all within the same profession, and no real distinction). I don't think DMD and DDS are under different governing organizations, with different licensing exams and espousing different philosophies, as MD and DO are. They are thus not competing separate fields.

I know, I was just joking. The DMD or DDS distinction only depends on what institution you go to and what degree they grant. Same boards, same licensing.

Which leads one to wonder, since many of the DO proponents say there is not much difference, if the MD/DO distinction will eventually be looked at like the DDS/DMD distinction.

 

[RadMD1day]

Come now, vbulletin 2.0's search function is a piece of garbage.

It solely exists so that you can yell at noobs "use the search function"

Thank YOU! I tried the search and I got nothing to clarify the pros and cons of MD vs DO.

 

[Law2Doc]

Which leads one to wonder, since many of the DO proponents say there is not much difference, if the MD/DO distinction will eventually be looked at like the DDS/DMD distinction.

As long as they are under separate organizational authorities, with separate licensing, separate admissions standards, maintain their separate residencies that MD's cannot apply for, etc. there will always be issues -- it will never be like the DMD/DDS or JD/LLB distinction. The differences are more than just letters. Merger to a single profession is the only way to totally eliminate the distinction.

And since it won't be a merger of equals (there are 5 times as many allo schools, and many many more MDs total), I cannot imagine the folks overseeing DO are going to be quick to merge away their jobs. But as the philosophical differences erode and more DOs opt to take the USMLE and apply for MD residencies, such a merger may ultimately make sense.

 

[TheAmazingGOB]

As long as they are under separate organizational authorities, with separate licensing, separate admissions standards, maintain their separate residencies that MD's cannot apply for, etc. there will always be issues -- it will never be like the DMD/DDS or JD/LLB distinction. The differences are more than just letters. Merger to a single profession is the only way to totally eliminate the distinction.

And since it won't be a merger of equals (there are 5 times as many allo schools, and many many more MDs total), I cannot imagine the folks overseeing DO are going to be quick to merge away their jobs. But as the philosophical differences erode and more DOs opt to take the USMLE and apply for MD residencies, such a merger may ultimately make sense.

Yeah, I wonder what the history of JD/LLB or DMD/DDS distinctions is. If they were once separate and then merged. I agree with you that it would be difficult for the MD/DO fields to merge because of the nature of each, but who knows 50 years from now?

 

[Instatewaiter]

Why D.O Medical School have lower average numbers:

1.) Many pre-meds have no idea that they even exist, so they dont even apply. (Plus there are only 25 D.O vs. 125 MD schools)

2.) Pre-med misconceptions also stop some from applying, such as DO's cant specialize or DO's will have a hard time finding jobs after residency..etc. Just part of the lack of knowledge about the profession

2.) Many people associate more prestige with the M.D., probably because your harvards, johns hopkins..etc are allopathic schools with huge research dollars.

3.) D.O. schools are definitely more non-trad friendly than allopathic schools, so these applicants tend to lack a bit less on academic numbers but greater on real world experience.

4.) Some people do not feel comfortable with the osteopathic philosophy

5.) thats all i can think of for now...

6.) Inability to count.

 

[spicedmanna]

Thank YOU! I tried the search and I got nothing to clarify the pros and cons of MD vs DO.

Okay, I'm going to be a jerk meanie and list all of the threads about Allopathic vs. Osteopathic, and some that are at least related to the subject, that I found using the SEARCH function on SDN:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=133066

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=387042&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=385397&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=380243&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=384098&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=384098&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=375880&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=367250&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=370906&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=370800&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=367903&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=367220&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=369852&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=365654&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=365649&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=362690&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=357527&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=356954&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=352405&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=351882&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=349216&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=348866&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=347932&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=349995&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=344122&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=343265&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=342575&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=330664&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=335759&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=335759&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=328429&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=327337&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=325013&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=324094&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=320876&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=322880&highlight=osteopathic+allopathic

Um, are these enough to start with??

 

[Law2Doc]

Yeah, I wonder what the history of JD/LLB or DMD/DDS distinctions is. If they were once separate and then merged.

I don't think they were ever separate fields, just different letters offered by different schools. (I actually don't know for sure about the dentistry stuff, but that's the case for the law ones).

 

[lilnoelle]

If you want the same old rehash to answer your question, you could look at the FAQs. However, here's an analogy I've used to explain the differences to my nerd friends:

The differences between MD & DO are like the differences between PCs & Macs.

• Both do the same tasks.
• One has a bigger market share.
• One will probably cost more to get.
• You can run PC stuff on a Mac, but not the other way around.
• Some people prefer one over the other.
• Some couldn't care less which one they use.

A littly geeky, perhaps; if for nothing else, it changes the subject onto something I prefer talking about! Hope this helps.

I like it (from one of the threads above that spicedmanna was so gracious to find for us)

 

[drlisa0318]

Do we have the faint glimmer of a starting "DO v. OD" thread? Let the battle of the palindromes ensue!

LOL!! Actually, some guy in my zoology class the other day was INSISTING that OD's were physicians and DO's were optometrists....until I showed him the brochure I had from the local DO school, OSU COM. He had a rather sheepish look after that.

 

[gujuDoc]

 

[drlisa0318]

I don't think they were ever separate fields, just different letters offered by different schools. (I actually don't know for sure about the dentistry stuff, but that's the case for the law ones).

A dentist I know told me that some schools changed the letters more or less from the prestige of having "MD" in it....kinda like so people wouldn't think of dentistry as the ugly stepchild of medicine.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

I figured someone would say this. I am sure some people claim it was their first choice and don't mean it---but I am also sure many are being honest. I do not think the people I have talked to that say they chose DO over MD are lying...but I cannot know for sure. But it is naive to think that NO ONE would actually choose DO.
And perhaps I give people too much credit, but I believe most would admit if it was their last choice--Personally I am completely honest about my situation and how I arrived here.

I have to go with Schaden Freud on this one. Consider the people who applied to both: I don't know anyone who turned down an MD acceptance to go DO ... but I do know several who turned down a DO acceptance when the MD acceptance came through.

 

[Law2Doc]

I don't know anyone who turned down an MD acceptance to go DO ... but I do know several who turned down a DO acceptance when the MD acceptance came through.

I know of folks on here who picked a DO over an MD school, but sometimes factors like location play a role.

 

[Depakote]

I know of folks on here who picked a DO over an MD school, but sometimes factors like location play a role.

When I was at the UMDNJ-SOM second look weekend there were people that turned down the other UMDNJ's for the School of Osteopathic Medicine.

 

[gotmeds?]

There's a range of MD schools, just like there's a range of DO schools. There's a little bit of overlap at some point. Would it really be all that strange for someone to turn down their last-choice backup MD acceptance for their top-choice DO? Not really. For some MD will always be a better choice than DO. For others, a good DO school is better than a "crappy" MD school. At the same time, I imagine it's exceedingly rare for someone to turn down a good MD school for even the best DO school while people turn down good DO schools for "crappy" MD schools all the time. Of course, "good" and "crappy" are entirely subjective, but you get what I'm saying.

 

[Law2Doc]

For others, a good DO school is better than a "crappy" MD school. At the same time, I imagine it's exceedingly rare for someone to turn down a good MD school for even the best DO school while people turn down good DO schools for "crappy" MD schools all the time. Of course, "good" and "crappy" are entirely subjective, but you get what I'm saying.

Except that since there are fairly limited numbers of allo med school seats compared to applicants, all are fairly competitive and so there aren't really any "crappy" programs. All are pretty good.

 

[gujuDoc]

I have to go with Schaden Freud on this one. Consider the people who applied to both: I don't know anyone who turned down an MD acceptance to go DO ... but I do know several who turned down a DO acceptance when the MD acceptance came through.

I know many people who wanted DO above MD because they like the "philosophy". I put quotes around the word philosophy because I don't agree with those who chose DO over MD on that basis that it was a good reason for choosing it because most DOs don't practice that philosophy that is supposedly in existence. That said there are many people who claim that they think DOs are nicer and that they like DOs better then MDs so they chose DO. However, the majority by far took it as an alternative plan b after not getting in MD schools.

 

[gujuDoc]

When I was at the UMDNJ-SOM second look weekend there were people that turned down the other UMDNJ's for the School of Osteopathic Medicine.

I also know some people wh o said that Novasoutheaster DO school was nicer then USF med school in terms of facilities and liked it better there too.

 

[gotmeds?]

Except that since there are fairly limited numbers of allo med school seats compared to applicants, all are fairly competitive and so there aren't really any "crappy" programs. All are pretty good.

I'd say that ANY med school in the U.S. is good, MD or DO. All I was getting at is that there is a little bit of overlap between the "low-end" MD schools and the "high-end" DO schools. Not much overlap, mind you, but I can see why someone would choose the "best" DO school over the "worst" MD school. I think that a lot of the people who you hear about picking DO over MD are in that type of situation.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'd say that ANY med school in the U.S. is good, MD or DO. All I was getting at is that there is a little bit of overlap between the "low-end" MD schools and the "high-end" DO schools. Not much overlap, mind you, but I can see why someone would choose the "best" DO school over the "worst" MD school. I think that a lot of the people who you hear about picking DO over MD are in that type of situation.

Possibly. But whether and where the overlap occurs tends to be in the eye of the beholder, rather than something objective. At the end of the day you go with your gut and what's important to you.

 

[sexyman]

For the most part I agree that most people will take the MD over DO.

However my Kaplan teacher got accepted to NYU and went to UMDNJ SOM (went DO/PHD and got fulls scholarship), and another girl I know got into an MD school in St. Louis and went to VCOM. So there are instances.

For me I would most likely go to any MD school over any DO school. But I would be very happy going to a DO school if thats the only school I could get into.

and btw, I would tell everyone I went DO as a plan b.

 

[JSainte]

Just once I'd like to hear somebody tell me what the hell that actually means.

My thoughts exactly. I constantly hear that "description" word-for-word, and nobody is ever able to really elaborate.

 

[Pansit]

Actually I think it's just that those who are PRE-allopathic look down on DO until they are humbled by med school

This is true....try going into the allopathic forum and try starting a MD vs. DO flame war and it will not get very far, probably because by that point nobody really cares and are just worried about getting through medical school. By the time you finish clinicals and are in residency you will have respect for anybody who has gotten through the same obstacles as you, whether MD or DO. Also the USMLE has a humbling effect when a DO or even a Carribbean student does a lot better. what are you gonna do?...refer back to how their undergrad gpa or mcats were lower...It's not about the path you take, but it's where you end up that matters.