Brigham/MGH/Hopkins/Penn/Columbia

[EaglesPA]

Now that interviews are (almost) over and ranking decisions have to be made, these are my top five. I know many people are probably considering the same group so I thought I'll start a thread. If you interviewed or are a resident at any of these places and want to share your impressions, I would like to hear them. Here are my impressions:

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[Onco]

My rank list is:

UCSF
Stanford
MGH
Columbia
UTSW
Duke
U Penn
Mayo Roch
UCSD
Cornell

This is based on my gut feeling and how well I fit into the team more than anything else. I didnt get invited to BWH, Yale & Hopkins..
Good luck, all 🙂

 

[EaglesPA]

Okay, so here are my impressions. Note that they are only MY impressions, not the gospel, so feel free to offer counterpoints if you wish!


BRIGHAM: Overall impression I got is a supportive program with friendly, easy-going residents. Less intern autonomy but over three years you'll be as well trained as any program in the country. Three-hospital model – academic tertiary/quarternary care hospital (BWH) + VA hospital + community hospital (Faulkner). They don't have overnight call which is an advantage for some people since you get to go home and sleep in your own bed. You stop admitting at 9:00 (or 10:00 ?) pm and theoretically are supposed to leave the hospital by midnight. But I can imagine that during the first few months of internship when you are less efficient you may stay up till 2 or 3 am finishing things up. Since there is no overnight call, you have to work regular hours on your post-call day. Cardiology fellowship match (which I'm most interested in) is just EXCEPTIONAL! I looked at the past 4years and basically it seems everyone matched at MGH/BWH/Hopkins/Duke/UCSF/Columbia – caliber fellowships. Impressive!!. Boston is very expensive but not as expensive as New York – and for the same price you'll get more space in your apartment.

COLUMBIA: Overall impression is that you'll get excellent clinical training at this place but you'll work very hard. Ancillary service NOT great which is a minus for me. The senior residents here seem to be very confident clinically, which is a reflection of the front-loaded nature of the program. The patient population is very diverse which is an advantage in my opinion. Cardiology is very strong here and they do very well in the fellowship match. New York is the most expensive city of the four.

HOPKINS: Overall impression is a very INTENSE program where you'll get world-class clinical training. The most intern autonomy of any program. You'll take call by yourself during intern year (although they say this begins around your third month – also they mention that help is available from a senior resident if you need it but I got the sense that you'll have to really SEEK it). Very front-loaded – 10.5 months of q4 call rotations in the intern year ! (On call days, you come in at 12:00 noon and leave by 6pm). This means that the second and third years here will be a little more relaxed than at other places where the "misery" is more spread out. Cardiology fellowship match is impressive although last year they did not take a lot of JHH residents (or maybe JHH residents chose not to stay there). Many went to the Cleveland clinic –apparently one of the big whigs that used to be at JHH is now at the Cleveland clinic and is able to recruit a lot of the JHH residents. Baltimore is the least expensive city of the four but there are concerns about safety in the area around JHH.

MGH: Overall impression is that this program offers an excellent balance between what I saw for BWH and Hopkins. You have a lot of autonomy during intern year (but unlike at Hopkins, it seems like help is READILY available if you need it). You take call alone as an intern and do all the admissions by yourself but a senior resident checks on all admissions. I thought that the Bigelow service model was great! On the Bigelow service, a team of 4 interns and one or two senior residents cover a panel of 20-24 patients. The 4 interns rotate through the cycles of Call, post-call, swing, and pre-call. There is no pre-rounding since the whole team sees all the patients. The on-call intern comes in at 12:00 noon, stays overnight and leaves at 12:00 noon the following dat (which is sweet! in my opinion!). When on-call on the Bigelow, you only cover patients on your service which you already know so there is no cross-coverage of other teams patients. On call you admit up to 5 patients. You'll also spend time on the Ellison service which has the traditional system where you have your own panel of up to 12 patients and will cross-cover for other interns when on call. The call cycle on the Ellison service is also 12:00 noon to 12:00 noon. Cardiology fellowship match is supposed to be as impressive as the Brigham, but we didn't get their list at the interview.

PENN: Overall, I think that Penn probably has the most content residents of the above programs. Again, similar to the Brigham, it seems like a very supportive atmosphere, where you'll become a very competent but humane physician. Less intern autonomy but over three years you'll be as well-trained as the other programs. Again three-hospital exposure – Upenn, Presbyterian, VA. Their cardiology fellowship match is great – although just a ‘teeny tiny notch' below the BWH – but they seem to have more in-breeding than the other programs. Philadelphia is actually quite nice. A little more expensive than Baltimore but more affordable than Boston or New York.


So, at this point I'm still undecided about where I'm ranking #1-5 although I have my inclinations. Let's hear your opinions!

 

[EastCoast]

hey eaglesPA...good thread. i'm sure there are several of us who are choosing between similar places.

i think the top of my rank list will look like this:

Hopkins
Penn (seemed to be the "easiest" program of these 5)
Brigham
MGH (really didn't like the vibe there)
Columbia

 

[Sir William Osler]

spent clerkship time at all three harvard hospitals, so i'm going with my heart here:

MGH - it just feels right here for many reasons.
BWH - Cards/Onc exposure awesome here. Needs to switch to overnight call.
UCSF - Great place, diverse hospital experience. Didn't feel any esprit de corps.
JHU - Not enough infusion of basic science. Clincally #1 though.
Stanford - Wasn't impressed.
Columbia - ancillary staff killed this place for me.

End of the day I want to be in Boston. MGH is right. Splitting hairs in terms of quality among the top places.

excited to hear others opinions.

 

[EastCoast]

hey SWO, in case it makes any difference for you...i believe that BWH is going to switch to overnight call. at least that's what the talk was when i interviewed.

 

[reallyanon]

how did you all think that the residents at BWH and MGH compared in terms of personal happiness and overall satisfaction? I expected to get a more hard-core/beat down group of residents at MGH but they really seemed pretty happy and not killed by the program. thoughts?

 

[Teejay]

I am just curious, but what board scores or range should one get to be able to get interviews in all these top IM programs.

 

[Sir William Osler]

Happiness in residency as compared across the top few places is more a function of realistic expectations (work hrs etc) and satisfaction with personal life. Work hrs are the same across the board. As such, I could not find a tangible difference at any of these places. The incoming residency class is big enough that you'll find your set of friends anywhere. No difference in career satisfaction. Career satisfaction more a variable of finding a mentor. Lots of mentors at these places. If u're keen on working with Partners in Health go to BWH, If you're keen on fighting HIV in Africa go to UCSF, if you're keen on working with X go to X's location.

 

[Sir William Osler]

recommendations, medicine grades, and other (research, international work, leadership potential) much more important in IM residency than board scores. They aren't recruiting geniuses, just leaders in clinical, basic science, global health, and anything else.

 

[CJamblooze]

I am just curious, but what board scores or range should one get to be able to get interviews in all these top IM programs.

Medicine is so evidence based, yet medical students have this perception that an examination with the purpose of evaluating a basic competency on a pass/fail basis can be used by programs to evaluate an applicant's potential as a house officer. Screening tools in medicine, like a PSA, are used as such and are really not an indication of severity of disease per say. I believe the boards are used in the same way by the top shelf programs. There is a basic cutoff score that gives an applicant a certain number of points. Applicants are initially ranked and offered interviews based on their total number of points (boards, grade in medicine, clerkship grades, LOR's, AOA, publications, personal statement). If I had to guess what the cutoff would be, I would say you need to score above 230 +/- 5, which is about a standard deviation above the national average. I don't think that someone with a 268 is necessarily going to be a better doctor than someone with a 231. I hope this helps.

 

[CJamblooze]

Word.

 

[IM2007]

Here is my rank, things could change still though:

1. UCSF: the best patient diversity, great location, strong in all subspecialties. They seem to have more variety of fields people go into, not just cards and GI, which makes for good resident diversity as well.
2. MGH: excellent training, nice residents, very approachable PD, good international opportunities. Bigalow service very unique and looks cool.
3. Hopkins: This might go as high as two or as low as 4. Best clinical training. Seems like every program I go to is always talking about how their program got stronger because they just got so and so from Hopkins. Residents were also surprisingly friendly. 60 people at our dinner, with >30 being residents. I'm just not sure about Baltimore.
4. BWH: Also awesome training, but the patient diversity was a little lacking (relatively). Outstanding residents and faculty. This could move North on my list. I will be curious to see how the schedule ends up, not that that is huge factor.
5. Stanford: Absolutely loved the PD, probably my favorite one. Three hospital system (Stanford, County, VA) which gives it good diversity considering the location. I am a little apprehensive about Palo Alto.
6. U of C: Liked everything about the program. This one may end up higher too.

It's going to be weird to not even know what coast I am going to end up on!

 

[TommyGunn04]

I'm surprised to see people somewhat equating Columbia with MGH, Hopkins, and Penn here. I didn't apply there, but in talking to classmates and other folks on the interview trail last year I got the impression that most applicants felt that the training and overall experience at Columbia wasn't on par with other top programs like Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, UCSF, Duke, and Michigan. Has there been a change in tides this year?

 

[DrHeartMD]

As a resident in the columbia program I can definitely attest that our clinical education is superb. We have wonderful independence which in terms of major academic medical centers is probably only superceded by perhaps mgh and hopkins. we have great independence as interns, and are oftne proud that we run our ward services as interns, and act almost like fellows in our second and third year. We have wonderful teachers mentors and faculty members, a unique system of two attendings on every service, and residents and interns which for the most part are a very team oriented, helpful and amazingly brilliant group. We have research going on in every field. Our fellowship matches are probably as good as any other top medical program. This is not to detract from any of the other clinical training programs mentioned, all of which were in my top 5, but columbia really did shine for me when it came to rank time and to me personally it felt a better fit balancing many of the best things of all the other programs. Perhaps the best way I could put it was, columbia was a good in between from the hopkins learn on your own method and the bwh/penn hand holding method - where trainees are taught to think on their own, act on their own, and run their own services, with help from senior residents available when the help is needed. In terms of the ancillary services...well ill be truthful they arent the best. its run like a city hospital and so you may not get stat blood draws whenever you need them or stat ekgs, but for th emost part, daily labs, and other services are pretty good. improvements are occurring every few monhts, and to be fair, this generally is the work of an intern - and to be honest id rather have spent a few times in intern year drawing blood and placing a few ivs to get good at it so that in the future if i needed to I could - it is a skill like any other. In terms of skills, we all get certified VERY early - as interns do all the procedures in our units. Overall, I think the training program has many benefits, but it isnt for everyone. If answering any more questions about columbia would help in the decision process, Id be glad to help via pm or on the board. Good luck to all in the match and hope u all end up in the place best for you.

 

[Onco]

recommendations, medicine grades, and other (research, international work, leadership potential) much more important in IM residency than board scores. They aren't recruiting geniuses, just leaders in clinical, basic science, global health, and anything else.

There was nothing 'global' in my application and I got some good invites.

My 0.2 cents:

1. USMLE grades: >240 Take step 2ck early & ace it
2. Md-PhD (more so for Hopkins & UCSF)
3. AOA
4. Stellar clinical grades with honors in IM
5. Top 10 med school
6. If you are not Top 20 med school, then make sure you get 99 on step 1 😉
7. A few pubs/abstracts wont hurt

Thats about it..

CJamblooze,

Dont forget that if you graduate from Columbia or Hopkins, you can pretty much chose to go wherever you want.. from Maine to Miami 🙂

 

[Teejay]

There was nothing 'global' in my application and I got some good invites.

My 0.2 cents:

1. USMLE grades: >240 Take step 2ck early & ace it
2. Md-PhD (more so for Hopkins & UCSF)
3. AOA
4. Stellar clinical grades with honors in IM
5. Top 10 med school
6. If you are not Top 20 med school, then make sure you get 99 on step 1 😉
7. A few pubs/abstracts wont hurt

Thats about it..

CJamblooze,

Dont forget that if you graduate from Columbia or Hopkins, you can pretty much chose to go wherever you want.. from Maine to Miami 🙂

So are you saying that an average student from an average medical school who does not make a 99 in step 1 or have the qualifications you stipulated above cannot get into a top 5 IM program? Woow! I find that very hard to believe.

 

[Chalazion12]

Ya I have to agree with Teejay. How hard is it for an average student (Step 1 210-220, case report published here and there, no AOA, couple of HP and pass on clinicals) to match at top 10 IM programs?

 

[EaglesPA]

So are you saying that an average student from an average medical school who does not make a 99 in step 1 or have the qualifications you stipulated above cannot get into a top 5 IM program? Woow! I find that very hard to believe.

Why is that hard to believe?
There is a lot of competition to get into a "top 5 IM" program, so why would they take an average student from an "average" medical school when there "top students from top med schools", "top students from average med schools" and "average students from top med schools" applying for those spots?

 

[BearCat]

Why is that hard to believe?
There is a lot of competition to get into a "top 5 IM" program, so why would they take an average student from an "average" medical school when there "top students from top med schools", "top students from average med schools" and "average students from top med schools" applying for those spots?

I don't know what the right answer is in this case, so just to offer my experience here:
1. Step 1 and Step 2 <220
2. Md only
3. AOA
4. High passed IM and Psych rotation
5. Not top 50 medical school
6. Do have a few publications
7. I was told that I have great LORs
Interviewed at Hopkins, UTSW, UCLA, UCSD, Emory, was not invited to MGH, Columbia, Stanford, UCSF.
Overall, if my step scores were higher or if my grades were higher, perhaps that would have helped me. I think certainly in my case my recs were a big plus.

 

[turkleton]

They reject good students, average students, and poor students. I got a 99 on Step I and did well in med school, not AOA well, but don't have the invites from some of the places that BearCat got. I know a kid invited to a Harvard program, who got rejected from a community program- no lie. So you figure it out. Bottom line, there's no magic formula to get into the "top"- and I use that word loosely- programs, so just bust your arse from year 1 and you'll set yourself up right.

 

[Teejay]

I don't know what the right answer is in this case, so just to offer my experience here:
1. Step 1 and Step 2 <220
2. Md only
3. AOA
4. High passed IM and Psych rotation
5. Not top 50 medical school
6. Do have a few publications
7. I was told that I have great LORs
Interviewed at Hopkins, UTSW, UCLA, UCSD, Emory, was not invited to MGH, Columbia, Stanford, UCSF.
Overall, if my step scores were higher or if my grades were higher, perhaps that would have helped me. I think certainly in my case my recs were a big plus.

They reject good students, average students, and poor students. I got a 99 on Step I and did well in med school, not AOA well, but don't have the invites from some of the places that BearCat got. I know a kid invited to a Harvard program, who got rejected from a community program- no lie. So you figure it out. Bottom line, there's no magic formula to get into the "top"- and I use that word loosely- programs, so just bust your arse from year 1 and you'll set yourself up right.

Thank God!!!! At least we still have some realistic people around here. Nobody should get me wrong, its great to have good grades and USMLE scores to get to wherever you want, but for somebody say you need a 99 and outstanding qualifications to get into a top program because you're coming from an average med-school sounds pretty egostic and discouraging to people who have high aspirations but don't have those cut-offs. I have friends who got into those programs not because of super grades or major publications but just their great personality, charm, extracurricular and sociable attitude. I know for sure that a good interview can make a lot difference regardless. Internal medicine if not for introverted book-worms and genuises who can barely smile or talk to people or patients but for those with an ability to communicate and relate with their patients. Good luck to everyone of you. I hope everybody gets into his/her first choice regardless of the med-school, scores or obstacles ahead.

 

[Charge!]

Hi Folks - In engineering school I had a prof who used to tell us, "Wht you did in engineering school counts only for one year after graduation. Afterwards your achievements do the rest." Bottom-line: Yes we all want to get into "elite" programs for training so as to further our career but in the end all that counts is the patient's opinion of you. If you can't treat him/her competently and humanely then it doesn't matter where you trained at. We all have egos that need stroking, but let us be thankful for getting AWESOME training in the US and lets do our best to make the world a better place.
Peace and good luck to y'all. May all of your dreams come true.

 

[Onco]

I don't know what the right answer is in this case, so just to offer my experience here:
1. Step 1 and Step 2 <220
2. Md only
3. AOA
4. High passed IM and Psych rotation
5. Not top 50 medical school
6. Do have a few publications
7. I was told that I have great LORs
Interviewed at Hopkins, UTSW, UCLA, UCSD, Emory, was not invited to MGH, Columbia, Stanford, UCSF.
Overall, if my step scores were higher or if my grades were higher, perhaps that would have helped me. I think certainly in my case my recs were a big plus.

I think you received interviews because of publications & AOA. These programs try to have a good mix and would invite stellar applicants from lower-tier med schools. However, very few, if any, FMGs are ever invited to the top 5..

I am quite certain that, for Internal Medicine programs, med school is the #1 selection criteria for sending out invites (even before board scores).. At least for IM, harvard, uscf or hopkins grads pretty much match to their first choice. Competitive specialities like Derma, Opth, Radio, Neurosurg are dicey even for ivy-leaguers.

Teejay and chalazion,

If you look at the cohort of IM residents at UCSF, Hopkins, MGH, BWH, Columbia.. you will realize that most of them graduated from ivy-league school or were very bright graduates of lower-tiered schools. You wont find FMG's or 'average' graduates from lower-tiered schools.

 

[dr.op]

However, very few, if any, FMGs are ever invited to the top 5..

You wont find FMG's or 'average' graduates from lower-tiered schools.

Sorry Onco, I have to disagree with you on that point. As an IMG, I was invited to 2 of the Harvard hospitals, as well as to Hopkins. Not only that, but I met several other IMGs interviewing at those institutions. Finally, a few of the programs had IMGs as chiefs or junior faculty - two of my interviewers were IMGs.

On the other side, I was rejected by many programs that are not top 5. My guess? They feel less confident about accepting IMGs because it will "look bad", whereas the "top 5" know they are great, and they know that they will not lose prestige by accepting talented IMGs.

 

[Onco]

Sorry Onco, I have to disagree with you on that point. As an IMG, I was invited to 2 of the Harvard hospitals, as well as to Hopkins. Not only that, but I met several other IMGs interviewing at those institutions. Finally, a few of the programs had IMGs as chiefs or junior faculty - two of my interviewers were IMGs.

On the other side, I was rejected by many programs that are not top 5. My guess? They feel less confident about accepting IMGs because it will "look bad", whereas the "top 5" know they are great, and they know that they will not lose prestige by accepting talented IMGs.

I am overwhelmed by your excellence 😀 However, I believe FMG's make up much less than 1% of the total IM resident population at MGH. I am not making this up because I interviewed there and spoke with residents/interns. This fact, in no way, disrespects the contribution of FMG's to american allopathy. It is just that the competition is fierce for top spots.

Cheers.

 

[Sir William Osler]

no one cares where the graduate came from as long as there are no financial issues. For example, poor programs may not take a FMG if they cant get funding from the government to train a FMG (not sure if this is an issue, but seem to remember this issue). Otherwise, why would the PD care? They want leaders in medicine. Alot of medicine practiced throughout the world, right? Not only do we need global health leaders, but alot of these guys are quite talented and end up running labs, leading hospitals, etc etc. Why would any AMG care about where their colleague graduated. At the end of the day we want to be surrounded by nice caring people, leaders in whatever of medicine, and diversity.

 

[joyfuljoyful]

Choosing among these programs has been very difficult for me. I appreciate your opinions. Here are some more thoughts.

MGH: I was apprehensive before interviewing here because I was concerned about the malignant/intense reputation of the program, but I was pleasantly surprised. The culture of the residency program seems to set by the easy-going, almost family-like atmosphere set by Dr. Bazari. When interviewing at Hopkins, the intensity was almost palpable, while the MGH residents/faculty didn't exude the same intensity. The Bigelow seems to be an innovative way to be exposed to many different patients in a short period of time. Personally, I am not used to this model, and wonder if I will miss having my 'own' patients that I am ultimately responsible for. The research and global health opportunities are amazing. Unlike Hopkins, the overnight call 'alone' seems to have some real oversight by senior residents, which is comforting. I am interested in hearing from harvard med students or MGH residents about their impressions about the intensity of the program. I have a family and I am concerned about cost of living/good school districts. Any thoughts?

Penn: Dr. Bellini seems to be an amazing and beloved program director. She seems to be a resident advocate and is clearly interested in seeing her residents succeed. She is interested in creating a great learning environment and has taken the step to negotiate a larger non-teaching service to handle routine admissions with lower educational value and take some of the burden off the residents. I like that there is a three hospital system, including a VA, and I like that the cost-of-living is not as burdensome as NYC and Boston. Even though I haven't spent a great deal of time in Philly, I was impressed with "Center City" where many residents live, and "The main line", where many residents with spouses and children live.

Hopkins: I wish I didn't love Hopkins as much as I did, but it was an amazing place. The intensity is a put-off and the fact that interns are on q4 overnight call for 10.5 to 11 months of the year is more than most programs. Nevertheless, I was fortunate enough to interview on a Friday, so I witnessed Grand Rounds and a lunch time historical/medical retrospective that was really impressive. Frankly, the most exciting part of the day was rounds in the morning with a team. The quality of the residents, and the committment to teaching as obvious and blew me away. Although I am not a fan of the immediate area around the hospital, I could get used to living in Baltimore. The ACS/Firm system is an innovative way to get real mentorship during the course of your intern year. Despite all these incredible features to the program, I am still concerned that the intensity of the program will be too overwhelming for me and my family.

Turned down the interview at Columbia because of the cost of NYC. Did not get an invited for an interview at BWH.

Best of luck to all of you!

 

[Onco]

no one cares where the graduate came from as long as there are no financial issues. For example, poor programs may not take a FMG if they cant get funding from the government to train a FMG (not sure if this is an issue, but seem to remember this issue). Otherwise, why would the PD care? They want leaders in medicine. Alot of medicine practiced throughout the world, right? Not only do we need global health leaders, but alot of these guys are quite talented and end up running labs, leading hospitals, etc etc. Why would any AMG care about where their colleague graduated. At the end of the day we want to be surrounded by nice caring people, leaders in whatever of medicine, and diversity.

I think you miss the point completely. I know of a Phd program in global health at Tulane (filled with FMG's who eventually want to enter residency) but I can assure you that very very few Program Directors have 'global health' in mind while sending out invites. And you can quote me on that. You seem like an FMG who's bent upon proving that american top-tier hospital prudently needs the global efforts of FMG's to sustain its structure or otherwise would collapse under its own weight. 😱

 

[Teejay]

I am overwhelmed by your excellence 😀 However, I believe FMG's make up much less than 1% of the total IM resident population at MGH. I am not making this up because I interviewed there and spoke with residents/interns. This fact, in no way, disrespects the contribution of FMG's to american allopathy. It is just that the competition is fierce for top spots.

Cheers.[/QUOTES


SO your argumet is that you must be an ivy leager before you can get into MGH.
I.E average med-school, non AOA, no publication, average medstudent even with good boards and other qualifications===Rejection letter?Trust me buddy, i've seen more than this happen.

 

[ABPA]

There was nothing 'global' in my application and I got some good invites.

My 0.2 cents:

1. USMLE grades: >240 Take step 2ck early & ace it
2. Md-PhD (more so for Hopkins & UCSF)
3. AOA
4. Stellar clinical grades with honors in IM
5. Top 10 med school
6. If you are not Top 20 med school, then make sure you get 99 on step 1 😉
7. A few pubs/abstracts wont hurt

Thats about it..

CJamblooze,

Dont forget that if you graduate from Columbia or Hopkins, you can pretty much chose to go wherever you want.. from Maine to Miami 🙂

I would definitely have to disagree with this. I think that the qualifications that you mentioned apply more to the more competitive specialties but for internal medicine they are much more forgiving with the step 1 scores and basic science years. I've interviewed at quite a few top IM programs and I can personally attest that they look at quite a few other factors besides the ones you mentioned--to me it seems that the clinical grades, evals and extracurriculars are much more heavily weighted for IM than for many other specialties. (Thank God!). Basically, you really don't have to be a genius to get into a top 5 IM program--they tend to look for a more well rounded applicant. Just my two cents

 

[S.c. Cdc28p]

MGH: I am interested in hearing from harvard med students or MGH residents about their impressions about the intensity of the program. I have a family and I am concerned about cost of living/good school districts. Any thoughts?

MGH has talented, friendly residents who work hard but are not really stressed out that much, given the great support from the program leadership. I'm not sure why MGH has a reputation for being more intense than the Brigham because I think the residents from both places are equally happy. From my limited experiences on the interview trail, I think residents at Penn, UW, and the NY programs are much more stressed out than the MGH ones.

The costs of living are not so bad, given the fact that I'm originally from the SF Bay area. Jamaica Plain is an affordable, fun, relatively safe neighhorbood of Boston. Cities north of the Charles are also affordable. Brookline has excellent schools, but it's expensive to buy a place there. Boston Latin is a great public school for grades 7 to 12. (I think the school sends over 20 kids to Harvard College every year.)

Overall, I think the MGH residency is a great, friendly program, and Boston has many diverse neighborhoods that are affordable and not too far from the hospitals. As an HMSer, I'm biased, but I'd hate to see any student turn down MGH because of the myth that it's a malignant program.

 

[chicamedica]

Happiness in residency as compared across the top few places is more a function of realistic expectations (work hrs etc) and satisfaction with personal life. Work hrs are the same across the board. As such, I could not find a tangible difference at any of these places. The incoming residency class is big enough that you'll find your set of friends anywhere. No difference in career satisfaction. Career satisfaction more a variable of finding a mentor. Lots of mentors at these places. If u're keen on working with Partners in Health go to BWH, If you're keen on fighting HIV in Africa go to UCSF, if you're keen on working with X go to X's location.

This is absolutely great advice. Not just for IM, but for any specialty. Every program has it's special focuses, so one person's perception of quality might be completely different from anothers just because they have different career goals, different specific interests, different learning styles, etc. One program isn't necessarily "better" than the other, just different. It's up to you, individuals, to decide what's important to you, and like Sir William says--what kind of mentorship you want/need to have for your career goals.

 

[joyfuljoyful]

Dear S.c. Cdc28p,

Thanks for your opinion about MGH. Even though I had a very positive impression during interview day, I realize that my perspective is very limited since I don't have an 'insider's view' of the residency. I appreciate your feedback about good neighborhoods and the cost of living. Now they just need to accept me...

 

[EspiritDeCorps]

MGH: Predominantly a one hospital system. I enjoy the fact that part of the time is spent somewhere else, a community hospital known affectionately as the Newt. However, the residents don’t seem to enjoy their time at the Newt.

+’s: prestige, connections, excellent teaching faculty, down to earth people, supportive and responsive administration, 24 hour call, great PD, global health opportunities, Bigelow experience (team management), they say they help facilitate your career goals, warm atmosphere

-‘s: pt population does not seem diverse, low indigent care, overprivelaged pts, high pressure, lacking time at another hospital, except for the Newt which doesn’t seem like a good experience, expensive city to live in

I'm unsure about how happy the residents are.

This program does a great job interview day of creating a very good show. I'm concerned that part of what I saw may be show and not reality.

 

[EspiritDeCorps]

I am interested in hearing what you thought of Yale. My comments are below.

Yale
Although I have more lines of –‘s than +’s, I really liked Yale, and would be interested in hearing how others perceived it.

+’s: laid back, family atmosphere, inexpensive living (with good salary), good faculty teaching, international health experience, great fellowship matching, no orphan interns, serves some underserved patients, great SW placement, Yale name, genuine and friendly PD

-‘s: hard 2nd/3rd years (lots of call), poor reports from the Heme-Onc service, many teaching faculty are primarily researchers (could make their clinical judgment suspect), h/o busting 30 hr rule, unwilling and discouraging atmosphere (although I did not find this to be true in my experience there), VA (gotta work hard to get anything done and the residents don’t report a lot of good things about their VA), teaching/non-teaching services don’t discriminate patients that are good for education

Unsure: residents seem content, but not sure they are happy

 

[EspiritDeCorps]

Although happiness is largely a function of your expectations coming into residency, I for one do not want to work with a bunch of residents who are miserable. I think that the atmosphere of misery or happiness is contagious to some extent, and I would rather recieve more positive vibes than negative ones. And I know that to some extent, I would have a great challenge in exuding positive vibes if surrounded by misery. Therefore, I do consider how happy the other residents are in the program. These will be my future senior residents.

 

[tibor75]

No overnight call at Brigham? what kind of second rate doctors are they churning up?

more evidence that the program on the CV means little as to how good of a doctor you actually are.

 

[Teejay]

No overnight call at Brigham? what kind of second rate doctors are they churning up?

more evidence that the program on the CV means little as to how good of a doctor you actually are.

I think you''ll still get the same experience and good training after 3-whole years.

 

[tibor75]

I think you''ll still get the same experience and good training after 3-whole years.

Maybe.
But working in the middle of the night by yourself or just with a resident is invaluable.

 

[typhoonegator]

Dude, it's not like the attendings at BWH come in overnight and take care of the hospital while you get your beauty-rest. You still get to work in the hospital alone overnight, but as a nightfloat.

I'm not even an IM resident, but having worked a a few of the hospitals in this thread, I can tell you that Brigham medicine residents are the real deal.

 

[EastCoast]

so out of the big 3 (brigham, hopkins, mgh), is brigham the toughest to get into just because people perceive it to be the nicer/relatively more chill program (key word relatively)?

i want to go to hopkins so i'm hoping that there are a lot of strong people out there who are scared about its intensity/long hours who won't rank it highly...

please, don't attack me if what i just said offended you or someone you know. just some late night ramblings.

 

[Rocky2007]

I did not get the impression that the Brigham was "chill" at all. I thought that everyone was really nice, supportive, commited to teaching, and hardworking. I think some people misinterpret friendliness as "laziness", which is in no way the case. You can be a nice person and work hard. You've got to be smoking crack if you think residents from the Brigham aren't well-trained.

I guess different places just appeal to different personalities. I did not have a good impression of Hopkins. I don't know how many times I heard the resident I spoke with at Hopkins say ,"not to be elitist, but..." That just really turned me off. I guess at the end of the day you have to just go with your gut and go to a place where you'll be happy and a place that you think will train you to be the type of doctor that you want to be. 😎

 

[mytirf]

Hopkins: I wish I didn't love Hopkins as much as I did, but it was an amazing place. The intensity is a put-off and the fact that interns are on q4 overnight call for 10.5 to 11 months of the year is more than most programs.

I'm not a usual writer on this forum...but I'm interested in why q4 call for 10.5 to 11 months is considered hardcore. In my program, we have 2 weeks of call-free plus 2 blocks of 2 week vacation. making it q4 call for 10.5 months during born the intern and junior year. Starting residency, I just assumed that's how it was going to be. Are there programs out there with less call than that?

 

[EaglesPA]

I'm not a usual writer on this forum...but I'm interested in why q4 call for 10.5 to 11 months is considered hardcore. In my program, we have 2 weeks of call-free plus 2 blocks of 2 week vacation. making it q4 call for 10.5 months during born the intern and junior year. Starting residency, I just assumed that's how it was going to be. Are there programs out there with less call than that?

Are you in internal medicine?
q4 call for 10.5 months in BOTH intern and junior year sounds like Surgery.

Most IM programs will have about 2 months of ambulatory blocks during which you have no call.
Hopkins has the most months of call rotations in the intern year of all the programs I applied to. Now, if you "survive" that first year, you'll get less months of call during the second and third years there.

 

[Onco]

I guess different places just appeal to different personalities. I did not have a good impression of Hopkins. I don't know how many times I heard the resident I spoke with at Hopkins say ,"not to be elitist, but..." That just really turned me off. I guess at the end of the day you have to just go with your gut and go to a place where you'll be happy and a place that you think will train you to be the type of doctor that you want to be. 😎

Dont really know why that would piss you off.. Yes Hopkins is elite. Period. MGH is elite. UCSF is elite. Columbia is elite. Period.

You subconsciously accept that if you accept the USNEWS rankings. Matter of fact is that Hopkins beside your name gives you an elevated status in the cohort of all US residents at any point in time. It pushes you above your colleagues into the category of the 'topmost trainee docs' in the US. Its a priviledge to work at Hopkins or any Top 10 hospital so dont be afraid of the 'elitist' tag.

 

[Geri_Gal]

Hopkins really is a special beast. Even the MGH and BWH residents were in awe of the Hopkins residency trained fellows at their respective hospitals.

 

[LBJ]

You're ... serious? Or I'm a sucker.

 

[Teejay]

Hopkins really is a special beast. Even the MGH and BWH residents were in awe of the Hopkins residency trained fellows at their respective hospitals.

I don't really understand the full meaning of your statement.

 

[reallyanon]

has anyone heard anything from MGH or BWH that isn't a generic letter from the panel?