BS/MD automatic acceptance or apply out with potential for merit aid???

[eastofeden52]

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Hi,
I've lurked these threads for several years but never actually posted anything. Now, I find myself in something of a predicament -- admittedly, a good one -- and would really like to hear y'alls input about my situation.

I am part of a fairly well-known BS/MD program. I graduated this past May from my undergrad institution and received a highly-regarded national fellowship (in the class of Fulbright, Rhodes, etc.). Thus, I will be spending the next year abroad performing some pretty cool medical and public health work. After that, I will likely matriculate at the med school that is a part of the BS/MD program.

However, I **think** that if I applied to other schools, I would have a chance at getting some decent merit aid. My stats are: 3.90 cGPA, 3.88 sGPA, biochemistry major, phi beta kappa, lots of clinical, bench, and public health research including 4 published and 3 submitted or written articles, 200 hours volunteering in an ER, and of course a prestigious yearlong medically-focused fellowship, which will entail additional volunteering, research, likely publications, etc. Although I do not like to attribute much to it, I am also a URM and that would probably play a role if I were to apply out.

The major upside of applying out would be the potential for merit aid, as I don't believe I am eligible for any from my BS/MD medical school since I have not taken the MCAT and basically can't apply anywhere else. The two downsides of applying out, in my mind, are: (1) I would have to take a year off to apply to other schools, thus delaying my matriculation and my ability to start med school, although I would be able to get a job during this time to make some spare $$$, and (2) I would have to study for and take the MCAT, likely during my time abroad, since no MCAT was required for my BS/MD program. There is also the additional wild card about what adcoms at other schools might think about my being accepted to a very well-regarded MD program and then deciding to apply out.

As I said earlier, I realize that I am in a really great situation. I am just having trouble weighing the costs and benefits of going directly to med school and paying for it in full, or applying out, taking another year, and maybe reducing my debt burden.

Thank you so much for any input y'all might have. I really look forward to hearing your thoughts. Sorry that this post was so long!

 

[Mithril]

If I were in your position, I would definitely not turn down a sure med school position for the possibility of more aid. The MCAT is torture and so is the application process. You will easily pay back your debt once you start working.

 

[raltima07]

While I agree with mithril, if you have won a national fellowship on that level (I think I know which one), and you get 34+ on the MCAT, you have a good shot. It comes down to you (and URM doesn't hurt!)

 

[gettheleadout]

At this point it really depends on your MCAT score. That said, I'd focus more on whether you'd be happy staying where you are than worrying about the money as much. If you don't think your connected school will be a good fit and you won't be happy, I'd consider applying out.

 

[macsta]

if i were in your position, i would definitely not turn down a sure med school position for the possibility of more aid. The mcat is torture and so is the application process. You will easily pay back your debt once you start working.

+1

 

[Whiskeypunch]

.

 

[Ahmed786]

Hi,
I've lurked these threads for several years but never actually posted anything. Now, I find myself in something of a predicament -- admittedly, a good one -- and would really like to hear y'alls input about my situation.

I am part of a fairly well-known BS/MD program. I graduated this past May from my undergrad institution and received a highly-regarded national fellowship (in the class of Fulbright, Rhodes, etc.). Thus, I will be spending the next year abroad performing some pretty cool medical and public health work. After that, I will likely matriculate at the med school that is a part of the BS/MD program.

However, I **think** that if I applied to other schools, I would have a chance at getting some decent merit aid. My stats are: 3.90 cGPA, 3.88 sGPA, biochemistry major, phi beta kappa, lots of clinical, bench, and public health research including 4 published and 3 submitted or written articles, 200 hours volunteering in an ER, and of course a prestigious yearlong medically-focused fellowship, which will entail additional volunteering, research, likely publications, etc. Although I do not like to attribute much to it, I am also a URM and that would probably play a role if I were to apply out.

The major upside of applying out would be the potential for merit aid, as I don't believe I am eligible for any from my BS/MD medical school since I have not taken the MCAT and basically can't apply anywhere else. The two downsides of applying out, in my mind, are: (1) I would have to take a year off to apply to other schools, thus delaying my matriculation and my ability to start med school, although I would be able to get a job during this time to make some spare $$$, and (2) I would have to study for and take the MCAT, likely during my time abroad, since no MCAT was required for my BS/MD program. There is also the additional wild card about what adcoms at other schools might think about my being accepted to a very well-regarded MD program and then deciding to apply out.

As I said earlier, I realize that I am in a really great situation. I am just having trouble weighing the costs and benefits of going directly to med school and paying for it in full, or applying out, taking another year, and maybe reducing my debt burden.

Thank you so much for any input y'all might have. I really look forward to hearing your thoughts. Sorry that this post was so long!

I was looking in your post for you MCAT score and then realized you didnt take it yet, you seem like an excellent applicant and would definitely have a shot HOWEVER only if you score like 36+ well balanced on your MCAT if you are talking about aid. Also it would only be worth it if you would be content with knowing u got in somehwere else better but didnt get any aid (if that is a good enough reason for you to do the MCAT)

I say take the MCAT, see how you do and then go from there because you are thinking way too far ahead of yourself. All of the stuff you did doesnt mean jack without an amazing MCAT.

Edit: Just saw you are URM, change it to a 33+ MCAT

 

[mmmdddd]

Four published articles as an undergraduate? You may have a better chance than you think. But could you name the journals first?

 

[Envix]

The only, only reason I would say apply somewhere else is that if the school you were accepted to was a far lesser program than you think you could get into applying on your own, and even then half the people here on this website would disagree with you.

Your reference to it as a well-regarded program makes it a no-brainer to me, take the acceptance, and I'd say that easily even if you had a 38 on your MCAT.

 

[eastofeden52]

First of all, thanks a lot for y'alls input. As one poster said above, I might be getting way ahead of myself since I haven't yet taken the MCAT. Also, most of my articles are in pretty crappy journals. I don't necessarily want to name them, but they range in impact factor from around 0.2 to 3.8. Three of the four are first-author though.

Some posters brought up a good point that I didn't mention earlier, that my connected school is a great school, but it may not be the best fit for me (mainly due to location, a lack of research focus on topics that I am interested in, and its own internal issues which may or may not be getting better). That being said, it is by no means a "far lesser" program than any I would enter. Lesser, maybe.

Thanks again for helping me out with this.

 

[NickNaylor]

I would say go for the regular cycle. You clearly aren't the average applicant, so the application process won't be as painful for you. You've gotten good grades, so I'm confident you can do well on the MCAT if you take your studying seriously.

It would be one thing if your application was borderline. It doesn't sound like it is. I would go for it and see what happens. I'd rather do that and try rather than wonder "what if?"

 

[FSAP]

I gained 30 pounds and shed 10 years off my life applying to med school so if I had a chance and go back I would take guaranteed admission.

 

[Whiskeypunch]

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[DNAdude120]

To the OP: Have you considered the MD/PHD path?

 

[eastofeden52]

To the OP: Have you considered the MD/PHD path?

Not really, although I definitely see the professional and financial value of the MD/PhD path. The thing is that my research interests are mostly related to the intersection of medicine and public health, not basic science or translational work. If I were to get another degree, it'd probably be an MPH. I know that a PhD could be applied to public health work, but I get the sense that most MD/PhD programs are more directed toward lab research. Also, I am not really interested in the added years.

 

[Whiskeypunch]

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[NickNaylor]

Not really, although I definitely see the professional and financial value of the MD/PhD path. The thing is that my research interests are mostly related to the intersection of medicine and public health, not basic science or translational work. If I were to get another degree, it'd probably be an MPH. I know that a PhD could be applied to public health work, but I get the sense that most MD/PhD programs are more directed toward lab research. Also, I am not really interested in the added years.

Shameless plug: Pritzker offers a MD/PhD program in the social sciences that funds the MD portion of the degree (PhD is funded differently).

With respect to MPHs, a good majority of medical schools offer that as a second degree option, so you could definitely do that. Usually it's only one more additional year.

 

[gettheleadout]

MD/PhD is not really financially valuable. You don't make any more $$$. More for research opportunities and academic medicine. Which honestly is just as possible without the PhD.

LOL. Most people would say a $25k stipend per year for 7 years and free tuition/fees/everything else for both degrees is "financially valuable."

 

[Whiskeypunch]

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[gettheleadout]

I meant in terms of the future earning potential, but even in terms of the cash you get for the PhD it doesn't really pay for itself.

There is an opportunity cost to getting the PhD equivalent to the number of years you study for the PhD multiplied by the last 3-4 years (it can take 4 years) of your attending salary. IE if you would have worked for 26 years, now you can only work for 22-23 years.

150k - 1.2 million x 3-4 = 450k - 4.8 million

4 x 90k + 3 x 25k (let's say it's a super expensive school you would have paid full price for, a bad assumption) = 435k

Also have to take into account the time value of money (in other words the concept that you get the money from the PhD stipend sooner, which manifests itself in the fact that you don't end up paying interest on loans). I'm too lazy to type all the into my financial calculator but I imagine total value is max a couple hundred k more.

For the average MD/PhD it's going to be more like:

Get 70k x 4 + 25k x 3 = 355k now, lose out on 250k x 3 = 750k later. Meh.

I thought we were comparing MD only to MD/PhD though. Your figures are a little confusing to me, but assuming 180k in loans, with compounding interest for 4 years of medical school + 3 years of residency and then interest factored on the remaining amount for however long it takes to repay them completely, I would assume the total cost would be greater than the 3-4 years of lost attending pay.

 

[Suncrusher]

I would say go for the regular cycle. You clearly aren't the average applicant, so the application process won't be as painful for you. You've gotten good grades, so I'm confident you can do well on the MCAT if you take your studying seriously.

It would be one thing if your application was borderline. It doesn't sound like it is. I would go for it and see what happens. I'd rather do that and try rather than wonder "what if?"

do you think he has a good chance at getting merit-based aid, though? Or is that just way too much of a tossup for anyone to even hazard a guess? But I guess it should be taken into account that he has a good chance at getting into schools that just have a ton of money to give a lot of aid to all their students...

 

[Whiskeypunch]

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[NickNaylor]

do you think he has a good chance at getting merit-based aid, though? Or is that just way too much of a tossup for anyone to even hazard a guess? But I guess it should be taken into account that he has a good chance at getting into schools that just have a ton of money to give a lot of aid to all their students...

Maybe, maybe not. But if he doesn't isn't he just in the same position that he's in now? Unless I missed something.

 

[gettheleadout]

Not for most folks. Plus the point suncrusher makes is good. If you can get into a MD/PhD program it's likely you can get a merit scholarship for partial or full tuition elsewhere if you really wanted. So you'd only end up really getting the 175k stipend out of the deal, totally not worth it for $$ reasons.

The real reason to get an MD/PhD over an MD is that you enjoy research/prestige/academic medicine etc but not $$.

I totally agree with that, (except the prestige part ) I just wanted to make the point that the financial compensation for a funded MD/PhD track is substantial enough to at least mitigate the lost opportunity cost of 3-4 years of attending salary. (Even if this isn't true, it's got to be pretty close.)

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I would personally say go for it. You obviously have the credentials to back up your application, multiple journal articles is very impressive (doesn't really matter if they aren't in awesome journals) and I'd assume you'll get a good MCAT score. You're also URM, which will make a difference though I don't want to downplay your achievements at all. The only problem would be if you bombed your MCAT but based on your track record you seem like you should be able to handle it.

The only problem I could see would be schools wondering why you're bailing out of the BS/MD program. You'll have to come up with some explanation for that besides "I'm looking for more money somewhere else" (although I think that's a perfectly valid reason). It shouldn't be an insurmountable problem though...its not hard to understand someone changing their mind about locking into a school years ago.

Make sure you apply to a lot of schools known for giving merit aid. You can search around SDN to find which ones are known for it.

 

[Suncrusher]

Maybe, maybe not. But if he doesn't isn't he just in the same position that he's in now? Unless I missed something.

yep. just curious

 

[eastofeden52]

First of all, Pritzker is a great school and it would definitely be very near the top of my list if I were to apply out. And I would definitely (probably exclusively) be applying to schools known to give lots of aid, with maybe some safety schools thrown in just in case I crash and burn elsewhere.

I don't actually know what would happen to my guaranteed acceptance if I decided to apply out. I assume I would have to let them know and reject their acceptance. I also imagine that such a move would prevent me from applying back (which kinda sucks because I think they are known to give out decent merit aid, especially to URMs).

I also think I could conjure up some very valid reasons for getting out of my BS/MD program. While money is my number one reason, I certainly have other reasons which are way more legit than "I want more money."

Finally, it's a very valid point that I may not get any merit aid anyway. It is a big risk based on a big assumption. What I might do is study for and take the MCAT during my travels, and if I don't majorly screw it up, I'll reweigh my options.

Thanks again for all y'alls input!

 

[eastofeden52]

One other thing -- I've heard of med schools "blacklisting" accepted applicants that turn down an acceptance and then apply again. While I can't seem to find a true consensus of whether or not this is a common practice, would this affect me as a BS/MD anyway?

 

[Narmerguy]

One other thing -- I've heard of med schools "blacklisting" accepted applicants that turn down an acceptance and then apply again. While I can't seem to find a true consensus of whether or not this is a common practice, would this affect me as a BS/MD anyway?

I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be too concerned with this. I don't think school's will knock you that much for a choice you originally made as a high-schooler. Plus, when I got accepted to a BS/MD the interviewers were openly telling me that I could always apply out somewhere else if I really wanted (I ended up turning it down).

You are most likely going to be considered a stellar applicant at most schools, you will surely get accepted somewhere (which is is no less than your current BS/MD guarantees you). More importantly, I think you've got a shot for some money so go for it.