BU v.s. Georgetown

[MMMM]

I don't know if this has been discussed but I am torn between the two. I would like to go to Boston because of the location and I want to go to medical school there but is Gtown a better program.
Thanks M

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[MMMM]

Nobody has any views on this or can direct me to maybe an older discussion about this.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

M^4, there's a lot of threads about the individual programs.

But I'll bite and throw out a few random thoughts...

Similarities:

• Both cost an arm and a leg

• Graduates that perform well from either program have considerable success in the med school application process (similar *supposed* success rates)

• Big city life

• Both take the GRE or the MCAT

• Both have a certain degree of informal linkage to their respective med schools

Differences:

• Both award master's degrees, but G-town's degree sounds better

• BU gives you the option of dual degree programs such as an MPH for an additional year (MBA too I think)

• BU allows more freedom with electives. BU allows you to take as many as 24/32 credits w/ the med students, but does not require you do so. G-town curriculum is pretty much set in stone and assures that you will take many M1 courses.

• BU starts several weeks later--if you're taking the August MCAT it gives you more time

• BU requires a thesis (library-based or library/lab combo), G-town is a non-thesis program and does not encourage or incorporate research. Depending on how you look at it, the thesis can be an advantage or disadvantage

• BU offers more research opportunities

• G-town has GPA cut-offs now for both cume and science GPAs (3.0). I do not believe that BU has these rigid cut-offs

• For those who have not completed the MCAT, G-town requires twin 650s on the GRE (got this info from a phone call). BU has expected standardized test scores, but these scores are not requirements.

• Minimum credits for degree: 34 for G-town, 32 for BU

• G-town appears to be better designed for students applying during the program. It also runs on a block system vs. a semester system for BU

• G-town must be completed in one year, BU does not have this requirement

I don't think you could go wrong with either.

 

[MMMM]

Phil
Thanks that is really helpful. Did you do one?
M

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Nope! But there's a fairly good chance I'll apply to both (and quite a few other pre-professional masters programs).

 

[Singing Devil]

BU is better. end of story.

And I'm completely biased.

 

[CaliforniaBear]

G-town is better. Also biased.

BTW I don't believe that there is a set science cut-off for GPA to apply to the Georgetown program (I had a 2.8 science 3.0 overall) but a good MCAT and I am in the program now.

If you want a program that will help you get into med school, Georgetown is the way to go. I assume that you want these programs because they help you get into medical school quickly, otherwise you would just get a regular master's at any school. No thesis means that you get in, you get out, you go to medical school (ideally). Also, be prepared, I hear that applications for the SMP program are up this year. Good luck.

 

[medstylee]

i agree. if you're planning on applying to these programs this year, you should get your applications in asap. i dunno how bu works, but if you want to get into georgetown, you'll possibly be screwing yourself out of a chance if you wait to long to submit the application. best of luck.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

BTW I don't believe that there is a set science cut-off for GPA to apply to the Georgetown program (I had a 2.8 science 3.0 overall) but a good MCAT and I am in the program now.

I believe the cut-off is new for 2005. This is an excerpt of an email I received in August from Gina Moses concerning the program for the Fall of 2005:

We are very proud of the fact that our program is nationally renown for it's academic rigor and excellence in preparing students like yourself for matriculating successfully into medical schools across the nation. Because our program is a graduate program, applicants will need to have a minimum GPA science and cumulative of 3.0 and better with a MCAT score of 27 plus. Last year we received over 600 applications and accepted 135 students. We will take into consideration all aspects of your application including your grades, letters of recommendation, co-curricular activities and work experience. This will include looking at all your official transcripts and noting upward academic trends.

I spoke with Aureller Cabiness, the SMP coordinator, and she said this too. But again, I think this is new for the Fall of 2005; prior to that, I believe you're correct--no restrictions were in place.

Rooting for the underdog,

Phil

 

[gnin]

Why do only 70% or so of georgetown SMP students eventually get into an american MD program, compared to 85% of BU MA students? The georgetown statistic seems pretty unimpressive, especially considering the program is apparently harder than the one at BU.

 

[FowlersGap]

Why do only 70% or so of georgetown SMP students eventually get into an american MD program, compared to 85% of BU MA students? Given the purpose of the of the programs, this seems like the most important statistic of all.

some people decide they don't want to do medicine, others go to the caribbean, some (like me) learn about osteopathic medicine and realize its pretty much the same thing as MD and go to DO school

 

[gnin]

some people decide they don't want to do medicine, others go to the caribbean, some (like me) learn about osteopathic medicine and realize its pretty much the same thing as MD and go to DO school

I grant that some people do prefer DO and foreign over american MD programs. But, no offense to DOs and FMGs, it's safe to say that the majority of students still choose to enroll at a US MD program if they can. And I don't know why this should be any more or less true at Georgetown than at BU.

 

[medstylee]

i bet that 85% for the bu program includes do and fmg as well.

 

[stinkycheese]

i bet that 85% for the bu program includes do and fmg as well.

Nope, just allopathic. Some of the remaining people go on to DO school. I am not sure that those numbers are going to stay the same as they expand the class, though.

 

[CaliforniaBear]

Why do only 70% or so of georgetown SMP students eventually get into an american MD program, compared to 85% of BU MA students? The georgetown statistic seems pretty unimpressive, especially considering the program is apparently harder than the one at BU.

This is what I have been told: the BU program and other master's programs have "higher" numbers because they reflect the number of people that FINISH the program, all two years. This 85% does not include the people that drop out after the beginning and those that do not return for a second year. As for Georgetown, the 70% includes all people from day one. I know that there were a number of people that dropped out of the program this year after the first week of classes, and others left for other issues throughout the year. The BU program's stats are padded because it only includes those that graduate. If anyone has the BU numbers from the beginning, this may shed more light on this discussion.

 

[gnin]

"The BU program's stats are padded because it only includes those that graduate. If anyone has the BU numbers from the beginning, this may shed more light on this discussion."

Equally useful whould be med school acceptance stats for those who successfully finish at Georgetown, as well as the proportion of people enrolling at each program who successfully earn their masters degree. Are the dropouts all people who can't hack it academically at the program, or do they also include people who make it into medical school before finishing the program (thus presumably making staying the program unnecesary)?

 

[imrep1972]

"The BU program's stats are padded because it only includes those that graduate. If anyone has the BU numbers from the beginning, this may shed more light on this discussion."

Equally useful whould be med school acceptance stats for those who successfully finish at Georgetown, as well as the proportion of people enrolling at each program who successfully earn their masters degree. Are the dropouts all people who can't hack it academically at the program, or do they also include people who make it into medical school before finishing the program (thus presumably making staying the program unnecesary)?

Well, I would recommend calling them. I have had a few conversations with people at Georgetown and they have been fairly forthcoming about strenths and weakness, IMO. I have never asked them about these specific numbers, but I'm confident if you asked, and if they have them, they would gladly give them to you.

Someone else asked about a higher proportion of students turning to DO instead of MD at Georgetown. I can't speak to whether or not that is actually true, but I can say that I have spoken with Gina Moses about MD, DO, Caribbean, and came away with the impression that Georgetown (at least the SMP) is fairly progressive in its opinion of DO's. She has a fairly good working relationship with DO programs and has had the SMP sponsor workshops for info gathering. It seems likely to me that Georgetown does quite a bit of educating about the two degrees and, probably, many students do find that they would prefer that route.

 

[Stratus2675]

Well, I would recommend calling them. I have had a few conversations with people at Georgetown and they have been fairly forthcoming about strenths and weakness, IMO. I have never asked them about these specific numbers, but I'm confident if you asked, and if they have them, they would gladly give them to you.

Someone else asked about a higher proportion of students turning to DO instead of MD at Georgetown. I can't speak to whether or not that is actually true, but I can say that I have spoken with Gina Moses about MD, DO, Caribbean, and came away with the impression that Georgetown (at least the SMP) is fairly progressive in its opinion of DO's. She has a fairly good working relationship with DO programs and has had the SMP sponsor workshops for info gathering. It seems likely to me that Georgetown does quite a bit of educating about the two degrees and, probably, many students do find that they would prefer that route.

I spoke to Dr. Broitman (BU) about this, and he said that the numbers were a little outdated. He said that its hard for the school to get accurate data since many students who graduate never get back to them with a status.

He did indicate that only 5-10% of students leave the program once they start.

 

[CaliforniaBear]

"The BU program's stats are padded because it only includes those that graduate. If anyone has the BU numbers from the beginning, this may shed more light on this discussion."

Equally useful whould be med school acceptance stats for those who successfully finish at Georgetown, as well as the proportion of people enrolling at each program who successfully earn their masters degree. Are the dropouts all people who can't hack it academically at the program, or do they also include people who make it into medical school before finishing the program (thus presumably making staying the program unnecesary)?

The 70% success rate of Georgetown does in fact reflect those that finish the program and get therefore get the degree. Very few, if any, get into medical school and do not finish the program. I know of someone in my class that got into GW, and probably did not need the program, but the acceptance was still conditional upon the fact that they get the degree. I think that most need the grades to put them into the accept category.

As far as those that drop out of the program, the early ones are those that can't handle the load, but those are also people that would most likely also drop out of medical school if accepted. However, these people are included in the Georgetown stats (ie. the 70%).

Georgetown does not exclude the DO route. If you want to become an IM/Family Practice physician, this is a great way to go, but I think that the majority end up in allopathic schools

Bottom line: both G-town and BU are excellent programs, and if you do well in either you will most likely get where you want to go.

 

[chitown82]

i bet that 85% for the bu program includes do and fmg as well.

it does include FMGs and it also includes people who have re-applied after being enrolled in the program.

 

[gnin]

i bet that 85% for the bu program includes do and fmg as well.

This quote below, from the BU website, seems to indicate otherwise:

"In fact, of the 661 graduates, 572 have been admitted to MD or MD/PhD programs at 74 allopathic medical schools across the country. An additional small percentage of students with dual citizenship have chosen to enroll in European medical schools in England, Ireland, Sweden and Israel."

http://cobalt.bumc.bu.edu/current/Catalog/medsci/intro.htm

 

[exmike]

G-town is better. Also biased.

BTW I don't believe that there is a set science cut-off for GPA to apply to the Georgetown program (I had a 2.8 science 3.0 overall) but a good MCAT and I am in the program now.

If you want a program that will help you get into med school, Georgetown is the way to go. I assume that you want these programs because they help you get into medical school quickly, otherwise you would just get a regular master's at any school. No thesis means that you get in, you get out, you go to medical school (ideally). Also, be prepared, I hear that applications for the SMP program are up this year. Good luck.

hey calbear. we have similar profiles (mdapps 922) good luck.

 

[Jendiver7]

Iexplored both programs, ended up doing BU and I will say that I got into BUSM for september and I was interviewed in the first round.

BU lets u take up to 6 courses with the med students that u dont have to take again if u go to BU- its pretty sweet in that regard. Plus, all your teachers are on the admissions board so they get a year to get to know u rather than just a 45min interview- it really works to your advantage.

Hope this helps

 

[chitown82]

Iexplored both programs, ended up doing BU and I will say that I got into BUSM for september and I was interviewed in the first round.

BU lets u take up to 6 courses with the med students that u dont have to take again if u go to BU- its pretty sweet in that regard. Plus, all your teachers are on the admissions board so they get a year to get to know u rather than just a 45min interview- it really works to your advantage.

Hope this helps

what six classes can you take with med students? histo, physio, neuro, endo, immuno...and one more?

for people considering the program, 90% of the MAMS students dont take neuro. also, the class is split in half - one half takes histo first semester (with the med students), and physio, endo, and immuno second semester (with the med students). the other half takes nothing with the med students first semester (they have their own physiology sequence and take histo second term), and only take endo and immuno with med students (mind you, these classes are only only one month long so you take only one month of classes with med students). the students in this half wont take any classes with med students till mid may.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

for people considering the program, 90% of the MAMS students dont take neuro. also, the class is split in half - one half takes histo first semester (with the med students), and physio, endo, and immuno second semester (with the med students). the other half takes nothing with the med students first semester (they have their own physiology sequence and take histo second term), and only take endo and immuno with med students (mind you, these classes are only only one month long so you take only one month of classes with med students). the students in this half wont take any classes with med students till mid may.

Chitown (or any current BU MAMS student/recent grad),

I'm considering BU's program for this Fall (if accepted, it would be one of my top choices). I read some postings about a split on another BU thread. I'm curious...what does the track you end up in depend on? When you get accepted to the program? MCAT and GPA? Whatever BU sees fit? Do you have any say on which track you enter? If I did the BU program and paid the rather expensive price, I would want to get the full worth of the program (i.e., take most of my classes with the med students). I don't think it would be much of an SMP if you can only take Immunology and Endocrinology.

UMDNJ-Newark's MS in Biomedical Sciences is a lot cheaper and students in the program do not have any trouble taking two (or more) first-year MD courses if they choose to do so. I'm not applying to UMDNJ's program ('rents won't exactly like the idea of me being in Newark), but my point is if students are gonna pay an SMP price tag they should get what they pay for.

 

[stinkycheese]

Chitown (or any current BU MAMS student/recent grad),

I'm considering BU's program for this Fall (if accepted, it would be one of my top choices). I read some postings about a split on another BU thread. I'm curious...what does the track you end up in depend on? When you get accepted to the program? MCAT and GPA? Whatever BU sees fit? Do you have any say on which track you enter? If I did the BU program and paid the rather expensive price, I would want to get the full worth of the program (i.e., take most of my classes with the med students). I don't think it would be much of an SMP if you can only take Immunology and Endocrinology.

Some of the "crap track" students don't even take endo or immuno since everyone just wants to go back to California ASAP So a significant percentage of people don't take any classes with the meds. The people who take Histo and Physio with the meds also don't get priority in registering for Endo and Immuno, so they may not get those anyway. At maximum, people will realistically get to take maybe 5 classes with the meds, but that's a high number. Most people take one, two, or three. The placement of students is apparently done according to when you are accepted. You have no say. Also, the crap track people don't have as impressive a courseload, since Physio is done over two semesters, which makes it way easier. So yeah, there are drawbacks to BU. But I like that we can take whatever we want, after finishing the three course requirements. Allows for a more interesting schedule. Also, I like a lot of the profs very, very much. I think the teaching is excellent and that I am getting a good prep for medical school. I feel I will perform really well in MS1 courses because of my background with BU. So there are pluses and minuses. I almost went to Gtown, but decided in the end that a) I wanted to be in Boston and b) I wanted the freedom to design my own curriculum. I love the BU community and have made awesome friends. It is a neat program, but if you want something hardcore and guaranteed to give you mostly med classes, you should go to Gtown.

 

[ChestRockwell]

To Stinkycheese and any other MAMS students who feel qualified to respond:

Other then the fact that physio is split over 2 semesters what is the real difference between the med school track and the supposed "crap track" that you speak of (which i am currently taking). Same professors, same syllabus and they look exactly the same on a transcript. The only difference I can see is that the crap track students don't share a class with the big bad med students. For that reason you might think the crap track is less competitive when in fact that could not be farther from the truth. The med classes are full of med students that are taking twice the course load as the MAMS students and they are taking the courses pass/fail. The crap track classes are jam packed with MAMS students that are taking half as many classes as the med students and they are all blood thirsty for A's. To call it a crap track is ridiculous. I could really care less either way but the problem is you are giving future MAMS students the wrong impression of the program.

 

[stinkycheese]

To Stinkycheese and any other MAMS students who feel qualified to respond:

Other then the fact that physio is split over 2 semesters what is the real difference between the med school track and the supposed "crap track" that you speak of (which i am currently taking). Same professors, same syllabus and they look exactly the same on a transcript.

I have said many times that I love BU, so I am not going to argue with you, but I disagree that it looks the same on a transcript. Taking physio over two semesters makes it much, much easier. Taking the exact classes a med student takes is sort of the point of an SMP... if not, why not just do any old masters? For people who go into MAMS thinking that they will mostly take classes with meds, they need to be aware that this is not necessarily the case. It doesn't mean the classes aren't excellent in their own right, which I have emphasized many, many times.

 

[ChestRockwell]

It is important that prospective students understand that there is a good chance you won't take many classes with the medical students. I agree with you on that. BU would like to make it seem as if all classes are with the meds but its just not true and I will admit I was a little bs when I first found that out. But the bottom line is, that is really the only difference that I can see between the two classes. If you really want to take classes with the med students then you will be disappointed when you find that out. To me its just bells and whistles. As for whether or not physio is much, much easier when split over two semesters instead of one, I really can't say. I've also heard the 2 semester physio goes more in depth then the 1 semester course, again I can't say b/c I haven't both courses. I would assume nobody has.

 

[chitown82]

I have said many times that I love BU, so I am not going to argue with you, but I disagree that it looks the same on a transcript. Taking physio over two semesters makes it much, much easier. Taking the exact classes a med student takes is sort of the point of an SMP... if not, why not just do any old masters? For people who go into MAMS thinking that they will mostly take classes with meds, they need to be aware that this is not necessarily the case. It doesn't mean the classes aren't excellent in their own right, which I have emphasized many, many times.

I agree...I don't think it looks the same on a transcript. Medical schools are well aware of the MAMS program and they indeed are aware of the track issue. I spoke with an Admissions Counselor at Northwestern and she told me to make sure I would be taking the version of the program in which I would be sitting with med students in lecture.

 

[stinkycheese]

As for whether or not physio is much, much easier when split over two semesters instead of one, I really can't say. I've also heard the 2 semester physio goes more in depth then the 1 semester course, again I can't say b/c I haven't both courses. I would assume nobody has.

One of the profs for the course told my advising group that the two-semester track is "preferable because it makes physio much easier!" I was confused as to why that was "preferable", but there you go -- straight from the horse's mouth. The difficulty of physio in 10 months <<<<< physio in 3 months.

 

[cammy1313]

One of the profs for the course told my advising group that the two-semester track is "preferable because it makes physio much easier!" I was confused as to why that was "preferable", but there you go -- straight from the horse's mouth. The difficulty of physio in 10 months <<<<< physio in 3 months.

I have to say that I don't think there is any difference in difficulty in the two semester versus one semester physio. The reason being that while the two semester seems as though it spreads the material out over more time, this is actually compensated by the addition of more material. Nitty gritty details are taught and tested whereas us one semester kids did not touch on certain minute topics. I had many close friends in the two semester (while I took the one semester) and they seemed to get reemed more than we did, in fact. So it really boils down to preference.

 

[lightnk102]

Taking physio over two semesters makes it much, much easier. Some of the "crap track" students...

This is a point that people have claimed many many times on a different thread, and other people have opposed just as many times on the same different thread. It's really impossible to say which is easier without taking both classes.

As a current second year who took the seeming crap-tastic class (as well as many of my friends), I've had no problems getting into med school as a result of it (3 acceptances, including BU), and there's been no obvious difference between the friends who took the one-semester physiology and the ones who took the two-semester physiology (all of us got into med schools of similar caliber). I suppose Stinky Cheese has a point, in that if you want the fuzzy feeling of sitting next to med year students and pretending like you're one of them - by all means take the one-semester class. However, I think the purpose of the SMP is to take learn med school material taught by med school professors, not "sit beside the med school students in the classes." I think the emphasis being claimed in physically sitting beside the medical students is a little misguided. Besides, being in the one-semester class means being crammed into a too-small lecture hall, tolerating dirty looks from the med school students, and having to wait in line at the front after classes end just to ask questions.

I'm not arguing that the two classes are exactly the same, but I do think the differences are mis-represented on this forum and overblown. I believe cammy1313 and singing devil both took the one-semester physiology and i took the two-semester, but all three of us received a good number of interviews and are going to medical school next year. I agree with the previous poster that the two-semester physiology ends up being equally difficult due to its greater depth and detail. One option is just different from the other, and each person should make their choices based on their own priorities. In fact - being part of the smaller two-semester physiology class meant more personal recommendations since the professors (who are also on the adcom) get to know you better. Taking the one-semester vs. the two semester is based solely on what you're looking to get out of the experience. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Representing one as clearly superior to the other is misleading.

 

[lightnk102]

One more addition for all future SMP graduates applying next cycle:

I don't think the SMP programs (both BU and Georgetown) are as well-publicized as they imply. At most of my interviews, I had to explain that the grades and courses on my transcript are actual medical school classes, and not just graduate level courses (i.e. med school physiology vs. grad school physiology). A lot of my interviewers were surprised when I told them, and one of them actually specifically mentioned that I should supply that information at all future interviews since that makes the significance of the grades on my SMP transcript much greater. They seemed more impressed after I supplied the information. I had gone into my first few interviews naively assuming they would know about the program - and only found out by chance about mid-way through the interview process when I happened to mention it in passing. Coincidentally, I also had more success with the later half of my interviews when I consistently explained the SMP, but that could also be due to better interviewing after more extensive practice. So take that as you will.

 

[stinkycheese]

This is a point that people have claimed many many times on a different thread, and other people have opposed just as many times on the same different thread. It's really impossible to say which is easier without taking both classes.

As a current second year who took the seeming crap-tastic class (as well as many of my friends), I've had no problems getting into med school as a result of it (3 acceptances, including BU), and there's been no obvious difference between the friends who took the one-semester physiology and the ones who took the two-semester physiology (all of us got into med schools of similar caliber).

No one asserted that you wouldn't get into med school off the two-semester track.

I suppose Stinky Cheese has a point, in that if you want the fuzzy feeling of sitting next to med year students and pretending like you're one of them

That is not my point at all. It should be fairly obvious that this has nothing to do with "feeling like a medical student". Read the above posts more carefully.

- by all means take the one-semester class. However, I think the purpose of the SMP is to take learn med school material taught by med school professors, not "sit beside the med school students in the classes."

The point is to show that you can take a rigorous, med-level course schedule and succeed. I feel that taking a similar courseload as the meds is what accomplishes this.

I think the emphasis being claimed in physically sitting beside the medical students is a little misguided. Besides, being in the one-semester class means being crammed into a too-small lecture hall, tolerating dirty looks from the med school students, and having to wait in line at the front after classes end just to ask questions.

I'm sorry you've misunderstood my point. I don't care about sitting next to med students.

I'm not arguing that the two classes are exactly the same, but I do think the differences are mis-represented on this forum and overblown. I believe cammy1313 and singing devil both took the one-semester physiology and i took the two-semester, but all three of us received a good number of interviews and are going to medical school next year.

No one is saying that you won't get into medical school if you take the two-semester class, but if people are coming to BU expecting to take a real med-school schedule, they need to know that is not the case.

I agree with the previous poster that the two-semester physiology ends up being equally difficult due to its greater depth and detail. One option is just different from the other, and each person should make their choices based on their own priorities.

First, I doubt that the med school's physio is all that much easier than the two-semester class. If it was, then the med students would not be getting a rigorous enough physio education.
Secondly, students don't have a choice which track they're in, so people can't make their own choices based on priorities.

In fact - being part of the smaller two-semester physiology class meant more personal recommendations since the professors (who are also on the adcom) get to know you better. Taking the one-semester vs. the two semester is based solely on what you're looking to get out of the experience. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Representing one as clearly superior to the other is misleading.

No one has represented one as clearly superior to the other, but I maintain my belief that taking half as much material in the same amount of time has to be much easier than the one-semester physio class, no matter how many nitpicking details they ask for. I know many people in the two-semester phys class who love the class, but agree it is pretty easy and manageable. I wonder how many one-semester people feel the same?

Additionally, being in the two-semester track has limited the other courses one can take. People who were planning on taking Neuro can't because of the physio schedule conflict, but one-semester physio people can. People wanting to take certain research or mental health classes can't. The one-semester people can do all of this. Now do you understand why the two-semester track is pretty much the shaft?

 

[ChestRockwell]

Stinky,
When you refer to one class as being on a "crap track" you are very clearly representing one class as being superior to another. But I won't take offense. After reading some of your past posts your foot seems to often find its way into your mouth.

 

[ChestRockwell]

Another idea I would like to run by some of the students who did take or are currently taking courses with the med students as opposed to taking the classes dominated by MAMS students. The purpose of the MAMS program is without a doubt to take medical school level courses (with or without the med students) to prove you can handle the load. But one thing most people don't realize or care to mention is that the med students that you are in classes with are taking almost twice as many credits as you are. So if you are taking biochem, histo, physio or any of the other courses with the meds there really is no comparison you can draw btw yourself and the med students in your class. They have twice as many classes as you and therefore they have that much less time to be spending on the class and you have that much more time. If I may make an analogy, it seems kinda like running a fifty yard dash against a one legged man and then congratulating yourself after you beat him. Granted the med students are smarter then most so maybe the one legged guy is exceptionally fast but he still only has one leg, you should beat him. Not only that but the med students are taking the classes pass/fail. So its kinda like the one legged guy really has no reason to race. On the other hand, the MAMS dominated classes are full of gunners who have nothing better to do then work their butts off for A's in the few classes they are in (compared to the meds). I may be wrong and there is no way to prove this but I would guess the competition in the MAMS classes has to be tougher then that in the med classes just based upon the makeup of the class and the average courseload of each student in the class. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Ive been in the program only a little over a semester so I concede that there are probably things I am unaware of. Also, I appologize for this tangent. It seems like this thread as most others on this website has lost track of the OP.

 

[Singing Devil]

Another idea I would like to run by some of the students who did take or are currently taking courses with the med students as opposed to taking the classes dominated by MAMS students. The purpose of the MAMS program is without a doubt to take medical school level courses (with or without the med students) to prove you can handle the load. But one thing most people don't realize or care to mention is that the med students that you are in classes with are taking almost twice as many credits as you are. So if you are taking biochem, histo, physio or any of the other courses with the meds there really is no comparison you can draw btw yourself and the med students in your class. They have twice as many classes as you and therefore they have that much less time to be spending on the class and you have that much more time. If I may make an analogy, it seems kinda like running a fifty yard dash against a one legged man and then congratulating yourself after you beat him. Granted the med students are smarter then most so maybe the one legged guy is exceptionally fast but he still only has one leg, you should beat him. Not only that but the med students are taking the classes pass/fail. So its kinda like the one legged guy really has no reason to race. On the other hand, the MAMS dominated classes are full of gunners who have nothing better to do then work their butts off for A's in the few classes they are in (compared to the meds). I may be wrong and there is no way to prove this but I would guess the competition in the MAMS classes has to be tougher then that in the med classes just based upon the makeup of the class and the average courseload of each student in the class. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Ive been in the program only a little over a semester so I concede that there are probably things I am unaware of. Also, I appologize for this tangent. It seems like this thread as most others on this website has lost track of the OP.

Let's flip to the other perspective... Med students in Histo are simultaneously taking Gross, which makes parts of Histo a little easier--when you see the gross anatomy of the liver and of the nervous system, the microscopic functions are a little better understood. Having Neuro before Physio makes a lot of the tracts governing renal function, cardio function, etc. make more sense. I took Physio and was hearing about the vagus nerve for the first time, but med students had already had it in Gross and in Neuro. Plus, they get clinical information from the outset of medical school, which makes the clinical correlations in Physio and Histo, etc. much more relevant to their current knowledge.

Yes, there is more time for studying when you're a GMS candidate, but I always got the impression that huge chunks of coursework were seemingly more relevant to medical students because of their other coursework, which we didn't have.

Also, I tried to load up heavy on difficult coursework as a GMS student so that I wouldn't be getting that "advantage." Thus, I took 38 credits of coursework in three semesters (including summer histo) and did lab work while taking Endo and Immuno. I felt this might show committees that I was not getting it easy. Maybe I wasn't taking advantage of the easy road, but I wanted it to be as difficult as I could make it.

 

[stinkycheese]

Chest: if we can keep the personal insults/comments off this thread, I am happy to continue discussions. I do agree that the MAMS dominated classes are more "competitive", perhaps, but the reasons you mentioned for not using the med classes as a yardstick for success also apply to the two-semester physio class, I believe. Proving that you can do the work includes having a similarly time-sensitive schedule. Doing the work over two semesters diminishes the difficulty. Since we're already working at a lower pace than the meds, I feel the GMS students have even more reason to want to take the shorter Physio class to prove they can do the same amount of work in the same amount of time. Do you know what I mean? I also (jokingly) call the two-semester class a "crap track" because of the difficulty in scheduling other classes around the physio class, as I mentioned earlier. I think all students in GMS are hardworking and deserving of their goals; I just wish the program was more balanced.

The physio class itself is excellent and the profs for the courses are the same, so I do not think the physio class itself is "crappy", just that the students put in the two-semester track cannot take full advantage of the program, as the spring Physio people can. So please do not construe my posts as an attack on the professors, classes, or students -- I simply feel it is a flaw in the program design.

 

[lightnk102]

The physio class itself is excellent and the profs for the courses are the same, so I do not think the physio class itself is "crappy", just that the students put in the two-semester track cannot take full advantage of the program, as the spring Physio people can. So please do not construe my posts as an attack on the professors, classes, or students -- I simply feel it is a flaw in the program design.

Perhaps there was a misunderstanding then in your first post, since it was not clear to me (or apparently, to Chest), that you meant it jokingly. Especially since calling something a "crap-track" even in jest could easily mislead prospective students to think that taking the two-semester physiology would jeopardize their chances when this is not the case (the easy assumption being that taking the crap-track would lead to crappy results. not too far of a leap of logic there).

That being said - you do bring up some valid points in your follow-up post.

 

[cammy1313]

Another idea I would like to run by some of the students who did take or are currently taking courses with the med students as opposed to taking the classes dominated by MAMS students. The purpose of the MAMS program is without a doubt to take medical school level courses (with or without the med students) to prove you can handle the load. But one thing most people don't realize or care to mention is that the med students that you are in classes with are taking almost twice as many credits as you are. So if you are taking biochem, histo, physio or any of the other courses with the meds there really is no comparison you can draw btw yourself and the med students in your class. They have twice as many classes as you and therefore they have that much less time to be spending on the class and you have that much more time. If I may make an analogy, it seems kinda like running a fifty yard dash against a one legged man and then congratulating yourself after you beat him. Granted the med students are smarter then most so maybe the one legged guy is exceptionally fast but he still only has one leg, you should beat him. Not only that but the med students are taking the classes pass/fail. So its kinda like the one legged guy really has no reason to race. On the other hand, the MAMS dominated classes are full of gunners who have nothing better to do then work their butts off for A's in the few classes they are in (compared to the meds). I may be wrong and there is no way to prove this but I would guess the competition in the MAMS classes has to be tougher then that in the med classes just based upon the makeup of the class and the average courseload of each student in the class. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Ive been in the program only a little over a semester so I concede that there are probably things I am unaware of. Also, I appologize for this tangent. It seems like this thread as most others on this website has lost track of the OP.

Your concerns are definately valid and one's that crossed my mind when I was in the program as well. I think you trumped your own card on this one though when you said that the med students are passing while the GMSers are working towards a grade. They may have twice the work load but knowing half of the material for one class very well could be enough to secure a pass. Singing devil also brought up a good point that the additional coursework and learning modules the med students go through could be considered a form of study time with an added sense of perspective. But as someone stated before, these are points that you can't really conclude anything on unless you've experienced both. Truth be told, all you need to arm yourself with is the drive and capability to get A's in all of the courses. That will at the very least prove to BU that you can be a med student, and anything else from then on should be considered gravy.

 

[stinkycheese]

Lightnk: Sorry I wasn't clear before; I really do think the education one receives is exactly the same no matter which track you are in, but in terms of "how it looks" and the flexibility to take other courses one is interested in, there is a difference. I am glad we are on the same page now

 

[wannabedoc34]

I just heard about the the fluidity of the science GPA cut-off at g-town. Is it too late to apply now?

G-town is better. Also biased.

BTW I don't believe that there is a set science cut-off for GPA to apply to the Georgetown program (I had a 2.8 science 3.0 overall) but a good MCAT and I am in the program now.

If you want a program that will help you get into med school, Georgetown is the way to go. I assume that you want these programs because they help you get into medical school quickly, otherwise you would just get a regular master's at any school. No thesis means that you get in, you get out, you go to medical school (ideally). Also, be prepared, I hear that applications for the SMP program are up this year. Good luck.

 

[imrep1972]

I just heard about the the fluidity of the science GPA cut-off at g-town. Is it too late to apply now?

Never too late to apply (well, as long as it isn't Aug 15th... ) However, I would caution you about the "fluidity" part. Its not that the cutoff doesn't exist. It does, its just that if they are going to admit someone with a low GPA, they've got to have something else in their application that stands out and demonstrates that that person will succeed in medical school.

If you are serious about applying, though, I would recommend getting your app in *yesterday* - I do think that applying early is beneficial for that program, and they are expecting to be flooded with apps this cycle.

 

[ashah05]

Hey,

I got into the Tufts, Georgetown, and BU master's programs. I am trying to decide what to do, right now its between Tufts and Georgetown. I am a recent Tufts graduate, so I can't get an unbiased opinion about whether I should go to Tufts or Gtown. Gtown is established and Tufts is new; Gtown has 100 kids, and Tufts has 30. Both have their pros and cons...anyone deciding between these programs and want to shed some light?

Georgetown interviews about 50% of the SMP class, and admits 15%.
Tufts interviews the top 25% of the MBS class, and no data is out on admittance since its new.

HELP!

Thanks