Buffalo Doc Shoots Woman at Hospital

[CraftyMed]

Wow. Guess we shouldn't just be worried about our patients having weapons in the ED.

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article903224.ece

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[Farmer2DO]

When I was a paramedic student in Buffalo, a shooter walked in and right into the trauma pod with a gun and tried to finish of the trauma/shooting in front of half a dozen people.

ECMC is the Buffalo system's only trauma center and is in a rough part of town, and they get a rough clientele. I'm just glad I wasn't there.

 

[Hamhock]

I can't wait for the gun lovers to come to this thread and tell us how we should all be carrying guns in the ED to protect ourselves and our patients.

Anyone in the anesthesiology forum reading?

HH

 

[Poetic Silence]

Reminds me of the pastor who always had a handgun on him and how he saved his congregation during a church shooting.

 

[deleted109597]

I can't wait for the gun lovers to come to this thread and tell us how we should all be carrying guns in the ED to protect ourselves and our patients.

Anyone in the anesthesiology forum reading?

HH

I don't think we all should, but the hospital shouldn't prevent me from choosing to do so. The signs don't stop the criminals. No metal detectors here either.

 

[OccupyTheED]

I don't think we all should, but the hospital shouldn't prevent me from choosing to do so. The signs don't stop the criminals. No metal detectors here either.

Agreed. We're essentially sitting ducks. Security at my hospital consists of a bunch of fat and over the hill guys (unarmed of course) who I wouldn't trust to defend me from an angry toddler, much less an armed assailant.

 

[Old Grunt]

http://newsone.com/2021158/timothy-v-jorden-buffalo-shooter-found-dead/

This guy was former SF. I wouldn't place a bet on any pistol packing would-be vigilantes getting the drop on him.

 

[Apollyon]

http://newsone.com/2021158/timothy-v-jorden-buffalo-shooter-found-dead/

This guy was former SF. I wouldn't place a bet on any pistol packing would-be vigilantes getting the drop on him.

The article you posted said it looks like he capped himself. As an aside, the area in which he was found bounds the 18 Mile Creek, which is a rural area. Lakeview, where he lived (and the northern border of 18 Mile Creek), is also a relatively lightly populated area with borderline rich (or at least well-to-do) people that want to be somewhat anonymous (not militia types).

So I don't understand what you are saying - that he probably did shoot himself, and it wasn't some vigilante that did it, and set it up to look like he shot himself?

If anyone got the drop on him, he got it on himself.

And, as another aside, I'm not an SF expert, but I've never seen or known of a 250lb SF guy - and, if he was 150 or 175 when he was SF, I don't know that he would keep his edge, or how helpful would be his "muscle memory" carrrying 75-100 extra pounds.

 

[Bojack Horseman]

And, as another aside, I'm not an SF expert, but I've never seen or known of a 250lb SF guy - and, if he was 150 or 175 when he was SF, I don't know that he would keep his edge, or how helpful would be his "muscle memory" carrrying 75-100 extra pounds.

They said he was ~250lbs but had lost ~75... A 6'2 guy that weights 175 is probably pretty fit.

 

[Apollyon]

They said he was ~250lbs but had lost ~75... A 6'2 guy that weights 175 is probably pretty fit.

If he went from 150-175 to 250 over several years, then lost 75 rapidly, especially if he was becoming unhinged, I don't expect that he was back at the top of his SF game - at all.

 

[Bojack Horseman]

If he went from 150-175 to 250 over several years, then lost 75 rapidly, especially if he was becoming unhinged, I don't expect that he was back at the top of his SF game - at all.

Maybe not, but I lost 70lbs in 3 months (6'3) and I was pretty spry afterwards. I guess it depends on how you lose the weight too.

 

[Old Grunt]

The article you posted said it looks like he capped himself. As an aside, the area in which he was found bounds the 18 Mile Creek, which is a rural area. Lakeview, where he lived (and the northern border of 18 Mile Creek), is also a relatively lightly populated area with borderline rich (or at least well-to-do) people that want to be somewhat anonymous (not militia types).

So I don't understand what you are saying - that he probably did shoot himself, and it wasn't some vigilante that did it, and set it up to look like he shot himself?

If anyone got the drop on him, he got it on himself.

And, as another aside, I'm not an SF expert, but I've never seen or known of a 250lb SF guy - and, if he was 150 or 175 when he was SF, I don't know that he would keep his edge, or how helpful would be his "muscle memory" carrrying 75-100 extra pounds.

Yeah, I know. It looks like he killed himself. Just a comment on people who think an armed hospital staff could have prevented any of this.

 

[Apollyon]

Yeah, I know. It looks like he killed himself. Just a comment on people who think an armed hospital staff could have prevented any of this.

Oh, I thought you meant out on the countryside, near the creek, with the "good ol' boys", Rambo-style.

Ironically, at another hospital in Buffalo (the Buffalo General Hospital), in around 1987, security WAS armed, and capped a dude in the ambulance bay. Apparently, it was hardcore.

 

[Hamhock]

Yeah, I know. It looks like he killed himself. Just a comment on people who think an armed hospital staff could have prevented any of this.

You are all delusional if you think you are going to take down some SF guy at 275 or 325 or 350.

Testosterone is more intoxicating than PCP...and I am a dude.

HH

 

[deleted109597]

You are all delusional if you think you are going to take down some SF guy at 275 or 325 or 350.

Testosterone is more intoxicating than PCP...and I am a dude.

HH

Well aimed lead can stop anything. It might just take more than one.
Hell, I know I couldn't take him in a fistfight. And I couldn't take him on if he knew I was going to shoot him. But from behind, with a well placed bullet? No questions.

 

[8654Marine]

I hope this doesn't spiral into a gun thing.

Cause this seems to be a crazy, emotional thing.

I'm sure the ex gf didn't think she'd be murdered in a stairwell in a hospital.

It seems the suspect realize the enormity of his situation, military training or not.

BTW, despite the SF tab and jump wings, it doesn't mean he's hardcore. But that dude had a scuba badge. Army underwater combat divers course in Key West is a bitch. All the dudes are hard core, even retirees.

 

[Old Grunt]

I hope this doesn't spiral into a gun thing.

Cause this seems to be a crazy, emotional thing.

I'm sure the ex gf didn't think she'd be murdered in a stairwell in a hospital.

It seems the suspect realize the enormity of his situation, military training or not.

BTW, despite the SF tab and jump wings, it doesn't mean he's hardcore. But that dude had a scuba badge. Army underwater combat divers course in Key West is a bitch. All the dudes are hard core, even retirees.

I don't know, the Q course is a notoriously nasty physical and mental gut check and that is only the beginning of the year long tunnel before SF guys join an A Team. Though jump school isn't overly taxing.

At any rate, I am not a gun person but there is a big difference in being proficient at a target range and being mentally prepared to take a life. I had the battalion snipers in Afghanistan and even those guys are trained to engage on a three count from the spotter. And target acquisition with a pistol in CQB is a whole skill set that special operations spends an inordinate amount of time on.

Anyways, I am not trying to lecture and I realize with your background you know all this, but it just seemed as good of place as any to stick random musings.

At any rate, this is a sad deal.

 

[Old Grunt]

Oh, I thought you meant out on the countryside, near the creek, with the "good ol' boys", Rambo-style.

Ironically, at another hospital in Buffalo (the Buffalo General Hospital), in around 1987, security WAS armed, and capped a dude in the ambulance bay. Apparently, it was hardcore.

"They drew first blood....."

I know our security is armed. They should be IMO, b/c I won't be.

 

[tkim]

He was one of my attendings during my trauma rotation. WTF.

 

[Docuronium]

Well aimed lead can stop anything. It might just take more than one.

I suppose it stopped him, but this story always struck me as unreal.

"Bear in mind Robbins was roughly 6'4", 380 pounds at this point, and with his obvious rage and confusion was a very, very dangerous man. One of the detectives shot Robbins twice in the chest. Robbins staggered, growled, and slapped the gun away from the detective, but was finally subdued with no further violence."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/200395-fighting-silver-black-demons-a-message-to-barrett-robbins

 

[gutonc]

I don't know, the Q course is a notoriously nasty physical and mental gut check and that is only the beginning of the year long tunnel before SF guys join an A Team. Though jump school isn't overly taxing.

At any rate, I am not a gun person but there is a big difference in being proficient at a target range and being mentally prepared to take a life. I had the battalion snipers in Afghanistan and even those guys are trained to engage on a three count from the spotter. And target acquisition with a pistol in CQB is a whole skill set that special operations spends an inordinate amount of time on.

You could have written this in Sanskrit and I would have understood it just as well.

 

[Apollyon]

You could have written this in Sanskrit and I would have understood it just as well.

Up close and personal is MUCH different from being at a distance.

 

[gutonc]

Up close and personal is MUCH different from being at a distance.

It was more the first paragraph. But if you know what " target acquisition with a pistol in CQB" means, I'd love to hear it.

On a related note, would a sense of humor and ability to understand sarcasm kill you?

 

[tkim]

It was more the first paragraph. But if you know what " target acquisition with a pistol in CQB" means, I'd love to hear it.

On a related note, would a sense of humor and ability to understand sarcasm kill you?

"close quarters battle"

 

[WilcoWorld]

He was one of my attendings during my trauma rotation. WTF.

What was he like then?

 

[Apollyon]

On a related note, would a sense of humor and ability to understand sarcasm kill you?

Comedy is subjective, but there was nothing that hinted of humor or sarcasm in your comment about something being written in a foreign language that you wouldn't understand. You sounded sincerely like you didn't understand, so I tried to clarify.

What WOULD show humor and sarcasm would be if you actually DID know Sanskrit, AND it was reasonable that a good number of people here knew that.

The first paragraph - "Qualifying school is brutal, and it's only the beginning of training for Special Forces before they actually join a functional team." And "target acquisition with a pistol in cqb" is using a pistol up close to aim and shoot someone, which the SF guys spend a lot of time doing.

And if you are not aware that sarcasm, without context and online, is rather difficult to convey, then that belays having years on board SDN in specific, and the internet in general. If your comment ABOUT it was sarcastic, though, then you get top marks.

 

[Old Grunt]

You could have written this in Sanskrit and I would have understood it just as well.

1. Becoming a Green Beret is really hard.
2. Most people who carry a weapon aren't mentally prepared take a life
3. Special Forces are trained in vast excess in the use of weapons relative a normal person.
4. The military school were people learn how to parachute isn't terribly hard.
5. This is a sad deal.

 

[gutonc]

Comedy is subjective, but there was nothing that hinted of humor or sarcasm in your comment about something being written in a foreign language that you wouldn't understand. You sounded sincerely like you didn't understand, so I tried to clarify.

What WOULD show humor and sarcasm would be if you actually DID know Sanskrit, AND it was reasonable that a good number of people here knew that.

The first paragraph - "Qualifying school is brutal, and it's only the beginning of training for Special Forces before they actually join a functional team." And "target acquisition with a pistol in cqb" is using a pistol up close to aim and shoot someone, which the SF guys spend a lot of time doing.

And if you are not aware that sarcasm, without context and online, is rather difficult to convey, then that belays having years on board SDN in specific, and the internet in general. If your comment ABOUT it was sarcastic, though, then you get top marks.

 

[tkim]

What was he like then?

Melllloowwwwww, low stress. I guess I know where he took it out.

 

[Apollyon]

You are taking a page from one of the anesthesiology mods.

I get it. Still not funny.

Or are you being sarcastic? I don't follow your posts too much at all in the IM forum.

Or, to recap: One person posts something. You say you don't understand. I try to explain. <breakdown here> You say something snide about humor and sarcasm. I address that. You post a meme.

You're making something out of nothing. You're trying to stir up something. Put that with the short-tempered thing about which tumors bleed heavily - someone asked "can you explain further?" Your response? "Not sure what you want here." - huh? That makes me think it's on YOU. The first, on the tumors, was something that is common knowledge to you, but not, it looks like, to some or most of us in EM. The second was something that was not common knowledge to you, and you call out the person who wrote it, then get snippy.

Or, maybe to make you happy:

Old Grunt put it in simplistic terms for you and any other lurkers that might not have understood.

 

[jbar]

My issue with armed docs/nurses is the same as my issue with carrying a knife at work, it's one more thing for your patients to take away from you and hurt someone with. I understand this idea of stopping a shooter, but most of the docs I know would be much more likely to have an accidental discharge or lose their gun than take down a shooter.

All that being said, I feel much better when I've worked places with real hospital police rather than just security guards. 'Cuz when it's time to tussle, they are ready to tussle.

 

[tkim]

 

[Apollyon]

Now THAT is irony!

Well played, good sir!