Burnout or does med school just suck?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

DrGoon

Membership Revoked
Removed
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2015
Messages
125
Reaction score
154
Hi guys I dont really know where to start, but Im an M2 and not really enjoying school at all. I dont know if other people feel this way but I seem to have absolutely no interest in anything in med school. Like anything. I feel like I still want to be a physician (interested in psych and anasthesia) but I just cant motivate myself to learn this stuff.

I dont mean to just get on here and complain or whine about the work, but Im curious if anyone else has experienced this and what you did to work through it. I probably have some symptoms of ADHD/depression/anxiety, but its really only exacerbated by having to sit down and force this stuff into my memory.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
Hi guys I dont really know where to start, but Im an M2 and not really enjoying school at all. I dont know if other people feel this way but I seem to have absolutely no interest in anything in med school. Like anything. I feel like I still want to be a physician (interested in psych and anasthesia) but I just cant motivate myself to learn this stuff.

I dont mean to just get on here and complain or whine about the work, but Im curious if anyone else has experienced this and what you did to work through it. I probably have some symptoms of ADHD/depression/anxiety, but its really only exacerbated by having to sit down and force this stuff into my memory.
Sorry to hear it. Med school does suck. It gets better in residency though. I've heard it gets better each year until you're an attending.

I just put my head down and endured it. Not sure that's good advice though.

Maybe talk to a school counselor? I've heard that can be helpful.
 
I think you're still interested in medicine, but it's just like anything else in life - if you have too much of it, constantly everyday, you get sick of it. Third year will change things for the better, hopefully, as you won't be bound to a damn desk all day long.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
You aren't the only one to feel this way. Something about the pressure of it all makes the material seem less interesting after a certain point. I remember I used to think learning all of this stuff was soooo cool no matter what it was, but after awhile learning gets stale and you don't look forward to it so it becomes harder to sit down and study. I've found that making sure I take time to pursue my hobbies outside of school helps me focus on school a little better. I've also found that seeing some real patients with pathology you've learned about can also help to make learning more interesting and memorable. Otherwise you should probably see a guidance counselor as others have suggested. Good luck OP, just know we've all been there no matter what anyone says.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I am concerned for you re: the Adderall/Vyvanase. Seeing a physician/therapist to talk is a good recommendation. It can really lead to worse issues if you lean on meds to get by, not to mention the legal ramifications. Take care.
 
You actually sound like you might be clinically depressed. Did you enjoy learning the material during first year and just feel burned out or have you felt this way since you started med school?
 
Hi guys I dont really know where to start, but Im an M2 and not really enjoying school at all. I dont know if other people feel this way but I seem to have absolutely no interest in anything in med school. Like anything. I feel like I still want to be a physician (interested in psych and anasthesia) but I just cant motivate myself to learn this stuff.

I dont mean to just get on here and complain or whine about the work, but Im curious if anyone else has experienced this and what you did to work through it. I probably have some symptoms of ADHD/depression/anxiety, but its really only exacerbated by having to sit down and force this stuff into my memory.

Awesome thread title, I think it's both. I also have issues with focusing and I've always disliked school. 2nd year was tough, but what I did to make it through was take the first week or two mostly off each block (tests every 4-6 weeks). I would go to mandatory stuff, occasionally watch lectures, but mostly just do me. Then for the rest of the time I would focus pretty diligently and just say ok, only 2ish more weeks of this then we can celebrate and play games and read books and do whatever for a while. Giving yourself strong motivation like that really helped me push through each block, but I definitely took at least a week, usually more in each block to reset. Preclinical does not equal clinical and it does not equal what being a doctor actually is.

Also make sure you exercise, I was very bad about keeping an exercise routing 2nd year and it definitely worsened anxiety/sadness. 3rd year I've made sure to make it a priority and it's done wonders. Everyone who says this says it for a reason, it's true.
 
Thanks for the advice. That strategy sounds about like what Ive been doing. We also have a block schedule that consists of 1 week exams followed by 5 weeks lecture and repeat. I usually take 2 weeks off but once i start studying again it just sucks the life out of me.

Ive also been pretty bad about excerise this year. Well really since I graduated highschool and havent had sports practices everyday.

Ive also really dislike school all my life but was fortunate that everything before med school came pretty easy to me. Coming straight out of undergrad I was more worried about my next beer and next chick than making As, so its been difficult for me to adjust to grinding out powepoints and lectures all day (I know its been a year and half since I started so I should have adjusted by now).

Make the exercise a priority, I also do rec league soccer volleyball and football to stay motivated and have fun. It doesn't get easier, you just get better.
 
I was where you were at during second year at one point. It sucks. Talk to a counselor, try and figure out what's really going on, and push through. Imo, third year is infinitely better than second year. Yea, there's still some bs to put up with, but seeing patients and actually being in clinical settings makes you feel like you're actually doing something other than memorizing seemingly pointless and endless facts. Just keep in mind, even if it still sucks sometimes, it really does get better.
 
Thanks for the advice. That strategy sounds about like what Ive been doing. We also have a block schedule that consists of 1 week exams followed by 5 weeks lecture and repeat. I usually take 2 weeks off but once i start studying again it just sucks the life out of me.

Ive also been pretty bad about excerise this year. Well really since I graduated highschool and havent had sports practices everyday.

Ive also really dislike school all my life but was fortunate that everything before med school came pretty easy to me. Coming straight out of undergrad I was more worried about my next beer and next chick than making As, so its been difficult for me to adjust to grinding out powepoints and lectures all day (I know its been a year and half since I started so I should have adjusted by now).
I came straight out of undergrad too and can relate a bit. I had little to no motivation MS1/2. It all felt like a waste of time to me, and I lost interest.

Part of it was that in college, getting into medical school seemed like this finish line after a long and difficult race. Yet, as soon as you reach this finish line, you find out that the race has only begun and you gotta keep running.
By the time I crossed that finish line and began medical school, I just wanted to spend time with friends and enjoy my life, didn't care about grades (I still don't to be honest, but I'll address this later) and I was tired of sitting in lecture halls/reading all day. Of course it showed in my performance the first two years.

Nonetheless if it's any consolation, I found third year to be a huge improvement. My motivation and level of interest both went up dramatically third year. You still have to study a lot, and third year has it's own set of headaches, but it's so much more relevant. You see what the doctors do day to day and realize that being a medical student =/= being a physician.

Also, the monotony of pre-clinicals is gone third year. You're doing things and learning on your feet much of the time, and read/study in the breaks during the day or at home in the evenings. I studied a lot, but compared to MS1/2 I def spent less time behind a desk with my head in a book, and that alone made MS3 much better.

Most of all, like I said above, seeing patients, working with residents, and basically being in the clinical environment sparked my motivation big time third year.
I started seeing how all the knowledge I gained translated to actually helping people. Basic sciences was way too removed from the patients, so it made it difficult for me to see the practical us of that knowledge. Third year, I was learning for my patients, and the information I learned actually felt useful (vaccine schedules, signs of neonatal sepsis, the differential for a patient with jaundice etc.) I still don't care about grades, I think they're a stupid motivator and only a means to an end. However, seeing the knowledge you gain used to help actual patients and people is an amazing feeling and that's made me into a much more motivated and very hard worker once clinicals started.

IMHO MS3/4 >MS2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MS1

I hope the change of environment next year helps you too.
 
Last edited:
I was where you were at during second year at one point. It sucks. Talk to a counselor, try and figure out what's really going on, and push through. Imo, third year is infinitely better than second year. Yea, there's still some bs to put up with, but seeing patients and actually being in clinical settings makes you feel like you're actually doing something other than memorizing seemingly pointless and endless facts. Just keep in mind, even if it still sucks sometimes, it really does get better.
I really think 3rd year will be a better fit for my personality. I left M1 year feeling about how I do now about learning the material and started a research project that summer. Just going into lab everyday and having something tangible that I needed to do made me feel infinitely better. That was really the only part of school Ive liked so far, and I plan to keep going with it to squeeze out a couple publications (and thankfully I genuinely enjoy the topic). I figured that once I started M2 I would ride that wave of a positive outlook on the whole med school experience, but once i got into the thick of classes I started to become unhappy again

The gym idea is good in that it will give me a sense of accomplishment everyday
 
Last edited:
M2 f'n blows. Terrible. I mean I excelled and did very well, and I will still say it was hellishly bad.

Hang in there, friend. M3 is the promised land, and I am looking forward to M4 eagerly.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Granted I'm just an M1, so I can't speak from my own experience. But all the M2 friends I made at the beginning of the semester look dead inside if you see them around campus, so you're definitely not alone.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
Humans weren't meant to sit in a chair reading for 10 hours a day, so naturally you're going to become depressed if that's all you do no matter what the subject matter is.

The key, as others have stated, is taking care of yourself first. Sleep well, eat well, exercise, and no matter how busy you are make sure to find time for at least one fun (or relaxing) activity every day. This made a huge difference in my mental well being; honestly I don't feel like med school is worth sacrificing my health and I refuse to do that again -- if I fail out because I sleep 8 hours a night and exercise then I'm okay with that.
 
It's the process...medical school is hard and feeling of suck is real....but like others have said, you need to take care of yourself mentally, physically and spiritually(faith,meditation etc). Eat well, sleep well and exercise (even 15 mins is good). Last, if it feels too much, take a step back and think why you are here and try to understand the reason you worked relentlessly to get here.
You are there for a reason not just by chance.
 
Third year has to be the worst.

1) Subjective grading. Am I getting a C or an H? nobody knows.
2) You are actually just in the way all. the. time.
3) Feeling stupid at every second of the day. Yes.
4) Just finished this 14 hour day now time to study!
5) WTF am I going to specialize in?

The list goes on and on. I wish I could go back to M2.
 
I'm sorry you feel this way OP. But I can't help but wonder: are there other med students you hang out with and study with from time to time? It sounds like study groups don't happen often in medical school or just don't happen at all. If that's the case, why? I mean, I understand medical school consists of ambitious and even over ambitious people who compete against each other, but there must be a hand full of students you click with and could probably ask "hey you wanna work together in this class?" Or does that not happen at all?

Sorry if these questions sound ridiculous, but as you can tell, I'm a premed
 
Third year has to be the worst.

1) Subjective grading. Am I getting a C or an H? nobody knows.
2) You are actually just in the way all. the. time.
3) Feeling stupid at every second of the day. Yes.
4) Just finished this 14 hour day now time to study!
5) WTF am I going to specialize in?

The list goes on and on. I wish I could go back to M2.

This.
MS3 is better for the "variety" of life where you study and go to shifts... But that makes it more difficult to study. The last thing you want to do after 12 hour shifts is study material that will be on OSCE/shelf that you will never see on the floors. Unless like you said you're naturally brilliant and rely on knowledge from Step1 studying to get you by all the shelves.

Subjective grading is the worst. Especially when your classmates who got an easy grader actually think they worked harder to get their scores. Seeing classmates that ditched shift and did nothing but hike and relax and get all honors in a clerkship cuz the attending was "chill" can be disheartening.
 
I think you're still interested in medicine, but it's just like anything else in life - if you have too much of it, constantly everyday, you get sick of it. Third year will change things for the better, hopefully, as you won't be bound to a damn desk all day long.
I am exponentially more miserable in MS3. I had never seriously contemplated quitting medicine until MS3. It has been an eye opening experience showing me the future life I unknowingly signed up for.
 
Last edited:
Med school teaches you the foundation of what it is to be a doctor but is not representative of what your life as an attending will be.

So, you have to decide if the material is uninteresting or if it is just the grind of study-test-study-test-and on and on and on. If you don't like the material in pharmacology, anesthesia may not be a good fit. However, if the material is at least tolerably and it is just the drinking from a firehouse way it is presented, you will likely be ok.

I am most concerned about the self-medication. Go get help if you really think there is a mental health issue. Stop buying the drugs from friends. I don't mean to sound all sanctimonious, but it will lead down a long dark road that too many physicians before you have trodden with disastrous personal and family effects. There is also the very practical standpoint that being caught will adversely affect your career in very serious ways.
 
I'm sorry you feel this way OP. But I can't help but wonder: are there other med students you hang out with and study with from time to time? It sounds like study groups don't happen often in medical school or just don't happen at all. If that's the case, why? I mean, I understand medical school consists of ambitious and even over ambitious people who compete against each other, but there must be a hand full of students you click with and could probably ask "hey you wanna work together in this class?" Or does that not happen at all?

Sorry if these questions sound ridiculous, but as you can tell, I'm a premed

There are plenty of study groups in med school, in my experience far more so than undergrad.
 
I guess if I saw a counselor I could probably get amphetamines legally
I don't want to talk you out of it, but you have to know to use any kind of drug ( whether prescribed or not ) wisely - yes, amphetamines are found in some smart-drugs, but you won't have access to them forever and even if you would, the effect wears out after a time. Do you remember your first cup of coffee ? It felt like magic, like the whole universe exploded and you had all the energy in the world. But as the months/years went on, coffee has become something almost as interesting as water, because the effect does wear off, no matter how powerful something is at the beginning, it is going to let you down sooner or later. That is, if you depend on it, which you shouldn't. But because it is harder to explain how to not depend on such substances, I will instead explain to you some techniques that can change your focus and mental attitude forever.

Natural focus booster :
  • PHYSICAL TRAINING - use your body to strengthen your brain !
  • Green tea - it's like coffee, but if you make it with real green tea leaves, it is STRONGER and the effect lasts longer !
  • High quality foods - if you eliminate sugar, flour and alcohol, you will see how your focus spikes ! I know many people don't like to hear this, but the effects are undeniable. Unfortunately, if you start having negative feelings about your life ( like you currently do ), the chances are that you start neglecting this aspect of your life, so you enter a vicious circle. You can read even more on the effects of different foods on your brain, but I can't stress it enough : you are what you eat, period. Inevitably, what you eat is going to catch up with you, just being a Medical student should make you understand this very well, because the biological functions in your body are literally converting food into your hormones, muscles, bones, neural cells, etc. - Underestimating the importance of nutrition is foolishness. Nowadays people rush to the pharmacy to buy "brain-boosting pills", while they destroy their brain cells by poor nutrition.
  • Eliminate distractions - as Cato put it, " Comfort is a road to waste. " : the most stimulating thing is to live a life with minimal distractions. This is something that was best described by Nassim Nicholas Taleb in his "Antifragile" book : many people succeed despite of hard circumstances, because those circumstances are actually stimulating them to succeed. On the other hand, many people who have "all the conditions to be great" don't turn out great, because they aren't stimulated enough to do the work. Your brain's paradox is that it becomes more and more productive when it deals with discomfort - even noticed how watching a TV series for example makes you want to just snack and sleep after it ? That's because comfortable activities are distracting your brain from actually doing any kind of work, and as long as you focus on distractions, you can't focus on work. Not when you have so much work to do as in Med school, anyway - you need a ton of focus for that ! Even one distraction can kick you out of the ring and the game is over - you're in a constant fight with your comfortable side, so you have to be aware of what you do in each second. It might seem counter-intuitive, but having minimal to zero distractions is actually a good way to avoid burnout - this is because distractions are overrated. Sure, people aren't as good as they would like to be at avoiding distractions ( we are almost monkeys, after all ), this is why most of them won't ever admit this, but it's often times not work that gets out burned-out, but distractions - why ? Because distractions are exhausting - they wear you out mentally and physically also, they make you weaker, they make you daydream all the time about a lot of things that don't exist in real life ( such as getting your dream career right now, why bother with all that studying after all ? ) , and they make you hate reality because they offer you a false sense of entitlement to just do whatever you want, listen to your "feelings", stay in your comfort zone, etc. - The road to success is merciless and it is naive to think otherwise, and that "merciless" aspect can take many forms, such as learning boring materials in Med school. However, take Bill Gates' example of mental toughness : " In my 20s, I never took a day off - not even a single day. " - And Bill knows a few things about success.
 
M3 is the promised land

scbu.gif
 
I understand why you think it's funny, because I would agree there is a huge POTENTIAL for suck in m3 year. But part of that depends on the specifics of the rotation, department, attending/residents, etc. Maybe I'm lucky since none of my rotations have been awful so far *knock on wood* Slightly apprehensive about starting Surgery and then OB, though. I heard OB at my school is terrible.
 
This week (before an exam), I have studied like I have never studied in my entire life. I am totally burned out.
 
I understand why you think it's funny, because I would agree there is a huge POTENTIAL for suck in m3 year. But part of that depends on the specifics of the rotation, department, attending/residents, etc. Maybe I'm lucky since none of my rotations have been awful so far *knock on wood* Slightly apprehensive about starting Surgery and then OB, though. I heard OB at my school is terrible.
Yeah, both M2 and M3 have their own unique terrible things. At the end of the day for me the ability to control my own schedule and study on my own time was preferable to long days at the mercy of others, but I'm sure not everyone in my class would agree with me.
 
med school sucks, parts of residency are worse. As an attending I can tell you that it gets pretty awesome on the other side. I mean you guys are at the whim and mercy of whoever you get stuck with. And lets be fair the majority of people in medicine suck. So just keep on keeping on and pick a good specialty!
 
med school sucks, parts of residency are worse. As an attending I can tell you that it gets pretty awesome on the other side. I mean you guys are at the whim and mercy of whoever you get stuck with. And lets be fair the majority of people in medicine suck. So just keep on keeping on and pick a good specialty!

Agreed. medical school sucks. Residency is going to suck even more. And a lot of people in medicine are not fun to work with, especially the self entitled individuals.
 
Agreed. medical school sucks. Residency is going to suck even more. And a lot of people in medicine are not fun to work with, especially the self entitled individuals.

Ive had to take consults from your residents and interns that want you to look up to them. Even attendings sometimes. They are pretty terrible. Like some are really really bad its not even funny. So just keep that in the back of your mind. Often they are just trying to get some control over somebody and you guys happen to be around.
 
I've felt more "blah" as a med student than I even felt as an undergrad, probably because as an undergrad I still worked full-time and didn't feel fully part of that competitive community, since I just didn't have time to worry about how I compared to anyone else. I just managed to juggle everything and pull off As in my classes. And now I'm learning a lot of the same things I excelled in as an undergrad, but since I have a family and life outside of med school, I'm not excelling anymore. I'm average, despite being bright and proficient and capable. It's a really sucky feeling, but not bad enough to make me choose to study 16 hours a day to be the great student I was before this.

I didn't fully get why burnout happens, but now I do: you have a choice between trying to maintain a life and be decent as a med student, versus making everything you can of these years. Unless you're really uniquely brilliant, it's a conscious choice, and choosing to avoid burnout leads to a different version of burnout: the kind you experience when you have a life while busting your ass but you're still only average.

I don't know about you, but what keeps me going (besides the family and life stuff) is the thing that reminds me of what I love about medicine: working in the field. I still take shifts as a per diem, not as a med student who is "shadowing," but outside that realm. When I work, I try to just enjoy the patient interaction I get without trying to demonstrate new competencies or be a "student doctor." I know most med students weren't healthcare professionals before med school, but I'm guessing you did something gratifying that connected you with real patients that you can still do now, if only a few times a month. That's my best recommendation until you hit your clinical years; it's keeping me connected.
 
Student Dr Thompson just came out with a new YouTube video that kind of covers this topic in a way. He makes the point that it is almost impossible to not become isolated from the life you had before medicine and there is a good chance by the end of this whole process the only people you will have anything in common with will be your physician colleagues...I wonder how much correlation there is between burnout and coming to terms with this unfortunate reality.
 
I've noticed that the degree to which the academic portion of medical school sucks is directly related to the amount of extracurricular life you have...For example, I was super focused and dedicated to my med school studies for weeks, which resulted in me getting into a "zone" where I didn't really care about what I was missing out on. It's like a tunnel vision where you learn to derive personal fulfillment solely through academic achievement. Perhaps it is akin to a sort of academic Stockholm syndrome wherein you learn to love the workload...In contrast, I recently took a whole weekend off for the first time (I usually take no full days off, or at most 1 full day), and I am now finding it much harder to stay focused on my studies. It's like that small taste of normal, enjoyable life snapped me out of my academic tunnel vision. Academic motivation/perseverance is sort of like a muscle: if you don't keep it active, it atrophies...of course, if you use it too much, it might get injured (burn-out)...
 
Student Dr Thompson just came out with a new YouTube video that kind of covers this topic in a way. He makes the point that it is almost impossible to not become isolated from the life you had before medicine and there is a good chance by the end of this whole process the only people you will have anything in common with will be your physician colleagues...I wonder how much correlation there is between burnout and coming to terms with this unfortunate reality.
I don't know how I'll fare in residency...and I am honestly a little worried. But, I can say that having gone through 3 years now, most of my closest friends are still my college friends. So I think it's possible to hold on to at least a small part of your old life, for me it was necessary to do that for my own mental health.

It's def harder to maintain relationships in med school, but the ones that are worthwhile, you should try to keep.

Of course, this might mean making sacrifices in other less important areas to keep those relationships. Or just not having other commitments or life factors getting in the way.
Being single and having no other commitments, being geographically close to family and friends, and being happy with average grades all helped there.

My friends and family are my nunber one priority, so I def went out of my way to keep them in my life as best as I could over med school. It takes effort, and sadly isn't always possible. But i think that if you have a true friend worth keeping, you'll be able to pick up right where you left off with that person, even after months apart. The era of skype, social networks and texting also helps. Even when I'm busy and can't hang out, I still call or message my friends on a pretty regular basis.

Still, even for me it was a crappy and isolating experience, especially the first year when all my non-med school friends lived far away, and I hadn't made any close friends in my class yet.
M1 was still the worst year of med school for that reason.
Just my own 2 cents on the topic-it's difficult, but def possible to keep a bit of your old self in med school. Having both close friends outside of medicine, and some likeminded friends in my class kept me sane over the last 3 years.
 
Last edited:
Top