But did you get pimped while shadowing?

[dpmd]

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It usually isn't malicious when questions are being asked. It may feel humiliating if you don't know the answer, but understand that often times the questions aren't necessarily meant to be something you will have the answer to right off (especially for someone just shadowing) but may be meant to bring up discussion. Or it could be meant to make a point for someone else (in the case the op brought up the OP was clearly not meant to know the answer to the first question, but if he/she had offered some kind of idea that didn't involve just sitting there while you wait for someone else to show up it would have demonstrated the kind of thinking the attending was probably looking for-sometimes you actually don't know the answer but the patient needs you to do something so you might have to use logic and improvise-which would be embarrassing for the resident and he would remember to think more creatively next time).

 

[7331poas]

Surprisingly, I got asked a question by the attending when sitting in on morning report for cardiothoracic surgery about the name of some random rare disease. Of course I didn't know so I just stared straight at him and quizzically asked "Am I...getting pimped?" Everyone laughed and someone in the room spilled their coffee. I'd chalk that up to be the best outcome possible.

Why would you say that?

I don't know why I'm irrationally angry and this but why do med students call it "pimping" and the rest of the intelligent population of people call it "being asked a question as a reminder to learn new things".

Also using the term pimping in that context is really embarrassing.

Like I said, irrational I guess.

 

[mehc012]

Not as big a deal for residents as I imagine someone in M3 doing a rotation for one of their top specialties and the site is picky about how they distribute evals.

Again, that's not so much the question-asking itself that's the issue...and this is also a thread about facing it as a premed, where the consequences are zero.

 

[JustaDO]

At first, I was surprised at the mild if not outright support of pimping, and then I realized most of the people supporting it are still premeds.

Like the person who ask why is there hate for pimping? In the subjective world that is clinicals, sometimes, someone special gets to be the "chosen one" for whatever arbitrary reason, and will be relentlessly quizzed until they don't know the answer beginning with 1st and ending at 5th order type questions or looking for obscure facts that only specialists would know. Don't know the answer? No worries, your "Body of Knowledge" score will reflect that in your evaluation to come.

I think the misconception here is that asking questions is the same as pimping. If so, I ask, then what's with the hate with bullying if its just joking? Its about intent.

To me, this sounds more malicious then conducive, and no, it is not always the "arrogant" medical student that gets this.

 

[mehc012]

At first, I was surprised at the mild if not outright support of pimping, and then I realized most of the people supporting it are still premeds.

Like the person who ask why is there hate for pimping? In the subjective world that is clinicals, sometimes, someone special gets to be the "chosen one" for whatever arbitrary reason, and will be relentlessly quizzed until they don't know the answer beginning with 1st and ending at 5th order type questions or looking for obscure facts that only specialists would know. Don't know the answer? No worries, your "Body of Knowledge" score will reflect that in your evaluation to come.

I think the misconception here is that asking questions is the same as pimping. If so, I ask, then what's with the hate with bullying if its just joking? Its about intent.

To me, this sounds more malicious then conducive, and no, it is not always the "arrogant" medical student that gets this.

Unfortunately, at least on SDN, 'pimping' now often refers to simple question-asking, just as 'gunners' are now 'people who study'.

Were we still/consistently using "questions + bullying/consequence" as the definition for pimping, then sure, I see what's wrong with that. As I said IN that original post. But it's not...some stories seem to hold the questions themselves up as an example of unfairness. That, I don't get.

 

[Sardinia]

Unfortunately, at least on SDN, 'pimping' now often refers to simple question-asking, just as 'gunners' are now 'people who study'.

Were we still/consistently using "questions + bullying/consequence" as the definition for pimping, then sure, I see what's wrong with that. As I said IN that original post. But it's not...some stories seem to hold the questions themselves up as an example of unfairness. That, I don't get.

There is no such thing as an unfair question in medical school. Also some rotation spots may use pimping to distinguish between giving high honors v. honors to a student. Residency spots are competitive and knowing which students are interested in your specialty based on pre-knowledge may help them factor in who they think should be set apart from the others. Of course with all things YMMV.

 

[mehc012]

There is no such thing as an unfair question in medical school. Also some rotation spots may use pimping to distinguish between giving high honors v. honors to a student. Residency spots are competitive and knowing which students are interested in your specialty based on pre-knowledge may help them factor in who they think should be set apart from the others. Of course with all things YMMV.

Hey, I agree with you that asking questions, in of itself, is in no way unfair.

I do think that one person getting quizzed up to the point of failure and then dinged for it, while others aren't, is not only jerkish, but also a poor education/evaluation tactic. And I only bring that up because this is the scenario that has been presented multiple times in here.

 

[Ismet]

Why would you say that?

I don't know why I'm irrationally angry and this but why do med students call it "pimping" and the rest of the intelligent population of people call it "being asked a question as a reminder to learn new things".

Also using the term pimping in that context is really embarrassing.

Like I said, irrational I guess.

Pimping != the Socratic method. What you described in your paragraph are two different things.

 

[JustaDO]

Why would you say that?

I don't know why I'm irrationally angry and this but why do med students call it "pimping" and the rest of the intelligent population of people call it "being asked a question as a reminder to learn new things".

Also using the term pimping in that context is really embarrassing.

Like I said, irrational I guess.

Is the "rest of the intelligent population" like you by having not attended medical school, not done rotations or even know what pimping means? Or just the premeds who have no idea what they are talking about, as it seems only they think question = pimping as evidenced by all those with "Pre-Medical" as their status? I find that when a individual tries to speak for the rest of society as a means to criticize a smaller group, the one wrong is usually the speaker.

The only thing embarrassing is not knowing the actual context.

 

[7331poas]

Is the "rest of the intelligent population" like you by having not attended medical school, not done rotations or even know what pimping means? Or just the premeds who have no idea what they are talking about, as it seems only they think question = pimping as evidenced by all those with "Pre-Medical" as their status? I find that when a individual tries to speak for the rest of society as a means to criticize a smaller group, the one wrong is usually the speaker.

The only thing embarrassing is not knowing the actual context.

Describe a context where being asked, point-blank, a question about medicine being a negative

 

[mehc012]

Is the "rest of the intelligent population" like you by having not attended medical school, not done rotations or even know what pimping means? Or just the premeds who have no idea what they are talking about, as it seems only they think question = pimping as evidenced by all those with "Pre-Medical" as their status? I find that when a individual tries to speak for the rest of society as a means to criticize a smaller group, the one wrong is usually the speaker.

The only thing embarrassing is not knowing the actual context.

It's like the 'gunner' thing, the term is evolving into something useless. And it's not just premeds, I spent a fair bit of time on-shift with residents and both they and the med students would refer to benign question sessions as pimping from time to time.

 

[mehc012]

Describe a context where being asked, point-blank, a question about medicine being a negative

Their point being that in order to qualify as 'pimping', there has to be more than just the question.

The situations described in this very thread, with med students being asked advanced, specialist-level questions about the field and receiving lower evaluations for failing it, or being mocked to the point of tears for it...those are contexts which turn the questioning into a negative thing.

 

[Lawpy]

You guys had great shadowing experiences. I'm envious 🙁

I can't comment on the pimping vs Socratic method debate going on right now, but for someone who is just shadowing and not being involved in clinical duties (so this would include MS1s and maybe MS2s), i think being quizzed by attendings on questions with increasing levels of difficulty is a great way to gain new clinical knowledge that can be very helpful for clinical years.

Of course, being penalized for not knowing is just cruel and counterproductive.

 

[Sardinia]

@JustaDO How have you coped with the pressure of M3? Not meant as an accusation, I couldn't do it for the life of me.

 

[JustaDO]

Describe a context where being asked, point-blank, a question about medicine being a negative

The context missed was that what you, as speaker for the intelligent population, think pimping is simply asking questions, which it is not.

That is like saying bullying is joking since in both cases, after all, someone does laugh and gets joy. Its the intent that is different, thus why bullying is not the same as simply joking around.

 

[username456789]

Hydroxyquinoline still indicated might want to hang onto that one

Hydroxychloroquine.

 

[username456789]

At first, I was surprised at the mild if not outright support of pimping, and then I realized most of the people supporting it are still premeds.

Like the person who ask why is there hate for pimping? In the subjective world that is clinicals, sometimes, someone special gets to be the "chosen one" for whatever arbitrary reason, and will be relentlessly quizzed until they don't know the answer beginning with 1st and ending at 5th order type questions or looking for obscure facts that only specialists would know. Don't know the answer? No worries, your "Body of Knowledge" score will reflect that in your evaluation to come.

I think the misconception here is that asking questions is the same as pimping. If so, I ask, then what's with the hate with bullying if its just joking? Its about intent.

To me, this sounds more malicious then conducive, and no, it is not always the "arrogant" medical student that gets this.

Only nursing students refer to their clinical training as "clinicals."

 

[Skydive Fox]

A girl I was shadowing with in the urology ward asked the attending why they don't screen for prostate cancer in females...
Let's just say the barrage of laughter and jokes that ensued for the next 3 days were PIMPing enough for her

 

[TheZaLord]

A girl I was shadowing with in the urology ward asked the attending why they don't screen for prostate cancer in females...
Let's just say the barrage of laughter and jokes that ensued for the next 3 days were PIMPing enough for her

Oh man...that...is unfortunate.

 

[JustaDO]

Only nursing students refer to their clinical training as "clinicals."

Strong work, except no one said anything about clinical training, good "contribution" though.

 

[username456789]

Strong work, except no one said anything about clinical training, good "contribution" though.

Did you not read your own post?

How odd.

 

[JustaDO]

Clinical evaluation = clinical training?

How odd.

 

[7331poas]

Clinical evaluation = clinical training?

How odd.

What? He said you called it "clinicals", you did call it "clinicals" in this sentence:

"In the subjective world that is clinicals, sometimes, someone..."

I dont know what you are going on about.

 

[getdown]

P I M P = Please Improve My Performance.

You don't know what you don't know until someone asks you about it. You might have read it at some point but putting it all together in the right situation is the most important aspect of medicine. Getting asked a question to demonstrate your knowledge does not mean you're being humiliated. It's a learning opportunity. I'm sure there are people who do it maliciously but in general this is a good thing.

Also, for those who think this sucks. For you to become board certified in any specialty you're going to be subjected to an oral board examination where they will ask you difficult scenarios and how you're going to manage them. So be prepared. How you handle this type of stuff matters.

 

[JustaDO]

What? He said you called it "clinicals", you did call it "clinicals" in this sentence:

"In the subjective world that is clinicals, sometimes, someone..."

I dont know what you are going on about.

" In the subjective world that is clinicals, sometimes, someone special gets to be the "chosen one" for whatever arbitrary reason, and will be relentlessly quizzed until they don't know the answer beginning with 1st and ending at 5th order type questions or looking for obscure facts that only specialists would know. Don't know the answer? No worries, your "Body of Knowledge" score will reflect that in your evaluation to come."

His post referred me to the usage of training, so where did I refer to training? I never denied using the term clinicals, but once again, you miss the context. You don't know what you are going on about at all.

 

[Ismet]

P I M P = Please Improve My Performance.

You don't know what you don't know until someone asks you about it. You might have read it at some point but putting it all together in the right situation is the most important aspect of medicine. Getting asked a question to demonstrate your knowledge does not mean you're being humiliated. It's a learning opportunity. I'm sure there are people who do it maliciously but in general this is a good thing.

Also, for those who think this sucks. For you to become board certified in any specialty you're going to be subjected to an oral board examination where they will ask you difficult scenarios and how you're going to manage them. So be prepared. How you handle this type of stuff matters.

I don't think all boards include oral boards. I won't have to take oral boards for my specialty.

Though I agree with everything else. I appreciate being asked questions to test my knowledge, it's hard but I learned a lot. That's how >98% of it has been for me, and I wouldn't call it pimping unless I was joking about it. The remaining times, mainly just a couple people I've worked with, have been somewhat intentional humiliation/bullying.

 

[AnnaSunH]

One of my first days interning/shadowing at a neuroscience center, I accompanied a doctor and an intern of 2+ years into the patient's room. The doc pimped the other intern, who had no answer, and then I shocked us all with the correct answer: anosognosia. I only knew this because another intern suggested I watch this 45 min video said doc was in on the center's website.
TL;DR do your homework and you might get lucky.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[sliceofbread136]

Getting pimped=getting asked questions on rounds

No one cares if you don't like the term, that is simply what it means

 

[timetraveling]

when sitting in on morning report for cardiothoracic surgery

*cardflip

fixed that for you

 

[MediCane2006]

I got pimped while interviewing for an attending position last week. ("What is the gene and inheritance pattern for van Der Woude syndrome?"). It never goes away....

 

[sliceofbread136]

The context missed was that what you, as speaker for the intelligent population, think pimping is simply asking questions, which it is not.

That is like saying bullying is joking since in both cases, after all, someone does laugh and gets joy. Its the intent that is different, thus why bullying is not the same as simply joking around.

The majority of the time people use the word pimping it simply means that they are asked questions. It doesn't have to be negative

 

[Ismet]

The majority of the time people use the word pimping it simply means that they are asked questions. It doesn't have to be negative

The majority of the time people use the word "gunner" they're talking about someone who does really well, not someone who is sabotaging other students in order to get ahead.

 

[sliceofbread136]

The majority of the time people use the word "gunner" they're talking about someone who does really well, not someone who is sabotaging other students in order to get ahead.

Also true, but gunner actually has more of a negative connotation usually, where as pimping usually doesn't

 

[caffeinemia]

I got pimped while interviewing for an attending position last week. ("What is the gene and inheritance pattern for van Der Woude syndrome?"). It never goes away....

IRF6 and Lip pits -- duhhh. If you've taken the PRS in-service exam 6 to 7 times, you'd know.

 

[MediCane2006]

IRF6 and Lip pits -- duhhh. If you've taken the PRS in-service exam 6 to 7 times, you'd know.

LOL. I have. And I did. (The inheritance pattern isn't "lip pits" btw, that's just the classic physical finding). I was just more startled that someone would pimp a board-eligible surgeon during a job interview....

 

[caffeinemia]

LOL. I have. And I did. (The inheritance pattern isn't "lip pits" btw, that's just the classic physical finding). I was just more startled that someone would pimp a board-eligible surgeon during a job interview....

OMG Yo momma so ugly her lip pits were autosomal dominant!

Man if that were to happen on the interview I would straight tell them to STFU, I'm out and drop the mic. I know i know, big words from someone still in training, but IDGAF attitude has actually worked pretty well in life and residency so far... surprised my contract got renewed this year.

 

[MediCane2006]

OMG Yo momma so ugly her lip pits were autosomal dominant!

Man if that were to happen on the interview I would straight tell them to STFU, I'm out and drop the mic. I know i know, big words from someone still in training, but IDGAF attitude has actually worked pretty well in life and residency so far... surprised my contract got renewed this year.

Haha.... I don't know how well I handled it to be honest, I kind of gave the guy a "are you serious" look, and then he followed it up with "that will be on your exam for sure" and I was like umm just so we are clear I've already passed the plastics boards, so thanks.

Gotta love old-school surgeons...

 

[SouthernGent]

One of the doctors where I work as a volunteer/shadow loves to do it, but he does it in a progressive manner. i.e. First question: What is this? 2nd Question: What does it do? Final Question: What is the most common cancer, defect, etc.

 

[caffeinemia]

One of the surg onc attendings and I have a great relationship now that I've told him to stop asking ridiculous questions and get on with the mastectomies.

 

[caffeinemia]

Haha.... I don't know how well I handled it to be honest, I kind of gave the guy a "are you serious" look, and then he followed it up with "that will be on your exam for sure" and I was like umm just so we are clear I've already passed the plastics boards, so thanks.

Gotta love old-school surgeons...

Funny part is now you can do annual In- service exams for a bajllion cme credits and only need to get 30%. Clearly, after you are board certified, you pretty much don't use 70% of that stuff anyhow. Never heard a patient ask me what gene causes my lip pits, but they're all neurotic about knowing "how many stitches it took."

 

[username456789]

" In the subjective world that is clinicals, sometimes, someone special gets to be the "chosen one" for whatever arbitrary reason, and will be relentlessly quizzed until they don't know the answer beginning with 1st and ending at 5th order type questions or looking for obscure facts that only specialists would know. Don't know the answer? No worries, your "Body of Knowledge" score will reflect that in your evaluation to come."

His post referred me to the usage of training, so where did I refer to training? I never denied using the term clinicals, but once again, you miss the context. You don't know what you are going on about at all.

The amount of ridiculous mental gymnastics you're trying to perform in order to convince yourself that you're not wrong is pretty hilarious.

You are wrong. Get used to it. It's going to happen a lot in medical school.

 

[7331poas]

LOL. I have. And I did. (The inheritance pattern isn't "lip pits" btw, that's just the classic physical finding). I was just more startled that someone would pimp a board-eligible surgeon during a job interview....

Really? This kind of thing happens ver batum in the computer science industry. I had the privilege of interviewing at Microsoft for an internship and they did point blank assessments of problem solving and critical thinking. Employees there said they did similar stuff when they actually went for the job.

 

[JustaDO]

The amount of ridiculous mental gymnastics you're trying to perform in order to convince yourself that you're not wrong is pretty hilarious.

You are wrong. Get used to it. It's going to happen a lot in medical school.

And the amount of effort you are spending to protect your fragile ego, the proper usage of terminology, and telling me what I meant in my own statement is equally hilarious.

 

[username456789]

And the amount of effort you are spending to protect your fragile ego, the proper usage of terminology, and telling me what I meant in my own statement is equally hilarious.

I accept your apology.

 

[JustaDO]

I accept your apology.

Welcome to the ignored list, good luck with that ego, FYI, there is medicine for that now.

 

[familyaerospace]

Hey all,

I was wondering if any of the fellow premeds got pimped while shadowing? I had my first pimping session today while shadowing and it was embarrassing. Not just that, but the resident got pimped too right in front of me, all the nurses, and staff. To be fair, I should have known one of the two questions but I froze (I wasn't expecting to be asked medical questions tbh lol).

I was pimped when a PATIENT in a hospital. I had one other person pimp me when I was shadowing. Most won't pimp you. I've seen pimping sessions where the attending just skipped me.

 

[Wolfpack93]

I work as a ER scribe and we had a trauma where this guy came in pretty normal and then quickly became super altered and started vomiting and got admitted to the OR. Afterwards the doc I was with was asking me what kind of bleed he had and why his symptoms progressed so quickly. I wouldn't say it was "pimping" but I definitely learned a lot that way and that's the whole point of these shadowing/clinical experiences right? I've also been asked things like the difference between hemorrhagic and ischemic stroke and what the treatment would be.