Buyout limbo

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
K

Kkapa

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2017
Messages
13
Reaction score
1
Points
2,531
Members do not see this ad.
Anyone here lived through a buyout by an amc...im a non partner, we have been in limbo for months waiting to see if buyout will go through and what, if anything, we will be offered, how long does the process normally take....we were told a month ago we would here something in a few weeks and now nothing....being in limbo is aweful.
 
Kkapa said:
Anyone here lived through a buyout by an amc...im a non partner, we have been in limbo for months waiting to see if buyout will go through and what, if anything, we will be offered, how long does the process normally take....we were told a month ago we would here something in a few weeks and now nothing....being in limbo is aweful.
Click to expand...
Start buffing your CV, kid.
 
Kkapa said:
Anyone here lived through a buyout by an amc...im a non partner, we have been in limbo for months waiting to see if buyout will go through and what, if anything, we will be offered, how long does the process normally take....we were told a month ago we would here something in a few weeks and now nothing....being in limbo is aweful.
Click to expand...
Being bought out by an AMC is even worse. Check back with us in a few months with an update.
 
It's on someone else's timeline. Can take a long time. We negotiated for over a year. If you are a non partner, but on a partnership track, you may get a small taste. If you are a straight employee, well, not so much.
 
I would be actively looking for another job and potentially even have a few alternate options lined up. You don't want to get stuck signing some junk contract with a bad non-compete. Maybe get a few state licenses nearby and look into the locums market for backup
 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Start the process of getting a few different state licenses where you would want to practice. I keep licenses active in 3 states at all times- it's costly, but I like the insurance.
If you own your home, start getting it ready for sale just in case. Clear out clutter and catch up on all deferred maintenance.
Obviously get your CV updated and start networking.
 
I was in a similar situation last year. (Non partner). Parity pay but non partner.

I ended up leaving cause there was too much uncertainty as the deal was closing (call schedule, overtime pay etc)

But the docs who stayed have had it pretty easy for the past 10 months since the AMC takeover. More days off. The AMC basically was trying to go from 11 docs down to 8 docs. But in the end went with 10 doc model (but added 3 more Crna daily).

So the post late docs from the night before have essentially the next day off routinely the next day (in addition to the post call docs off the next day) due to extra Crna's available.

We did our own cases 50% of the time before hand. But now it's more like 20% of the time doing own cases. Still do own cases all the time on call.

Usually a honeymoon period for at least a year with many of these takeovers (assuming working conditions aren't bad before).

So as the year is approaching. Staff is leaving and they are starting to get short staff now.

So take your time. Make sure ur malpractice tail is paid with buyout. My tail was paid for.

Honestly. I would have come back to my old hospital (I still moonlight for extra income). But I had another better job come up (federal job aka VA!).

So now I get the best of both worlds. VA hours and light calls plus moonlighting extra income.
 
thanks for the replies .. to clarify.. partnership track, one year into a 3 year buyin
 
aneftp said:
I was in a similar situation last year. (Non partner). Parity pay but non partner.

I ended up leaving cause there was too much uncertainty as the deal was closing (call schedule, overtime pay etc)

But the docs who stayed have had it pretty easy for the past 10 months since the AMC takeover. More days off. The AMC basically was trying to go from 11 docs down to 8 docs. But in the end went with 10 doc model (but added 3 more Crna daily).

So the post late docs from the night before have essentially the next day off routinely the next day (in addition to the post call docs off the next day) due to extra Crna's available.

We did our own cases 50% of the time before hand. But now it's more like 20% of the time doing own cases. Still do own cases all the time on call.

Usually a honeymoon period for at least a year with many of these takeovers (assuming working conditions aren't bad before).

So as the year is approaching. Staff is leaving and they are starting to get short staff now.

So take your time. Make sure ur malpractice tail is paid with buyout. My tail was paid for.

Honestly. I would have come back to my old hospital (I still moonlight for extra income). But I had another better job come up (federal job aka VA!).

So now I get the best of both worlds. VA hours and light calls plus moonlighting extra income.
Click to expand...

Wow how'd you get a VA job. Amazing!
 
Kkapa said:
thanks for the replies .. to clarify.. partnership track, one year into a 3 year buyin
Click to expand...

Most likely, any percentage of buyout and your contract going forward as compared to the partner's contract going forward is a discretionary decision of the leadership of the group. Good Luck.
 
Kkapa said:
Anyone here lived through a buyout by an amc...im a non partner, we have been in limbo for months waiting to see if buyout will go through and what, if anything, we will be offered, how long does the process normally take....we were told a month ago we would here something in a few weeks and now nothing....being in limbo is aweful.
Click to expand...


When we were approached by multiple AMCs in the past, the process played out like this.
1) AMC says "Hi, want to listen to us talk while we buy you dinner?"
2) Group decides whether or not to sign NDA and open their books to AMC
3) AMC comes back with an offer
4) Group then gets back together and decides whether or not to accept the offer

Are you saying your Group is still at stage 2 and waiting for stage 3 to see if the AMC will even make an offer and what it might be? For us that stage only took about a few weeks, though I'd guess maybe 1-2 months is quite reasonable on their end since they want to verify that actual numbers and decide what's a reasonable guess going forward.

Then they will make some sort of offer and give your group a deadline to get back to them. The degree of nervousness you should have mostly depends on the partners in the group. Did they seek out this offer from an AMC and are looking to cash out? Or did they just happen to get cold called one too many times and finally agree to sit down and just listen to see what they have to say? We were in the latter and listened with an open mind and then told them to get bent after we saw the offer. Other groups might feel like they are on the deck of the Titantic going down and just looking to cash in their chips while they still can.
 
Mman said:
When we were approached by multiple AMCs in the past, the process played out like this.
1) AMC says "Hi, want to listen to us talk while we buy you dinner?"
2) Group decides whether or not to sign NDA and open their books to AMC
3) AMC comes back with an offer
4) Group then gets back together and decides whether or not to accept the offer

Are you saying your Group is still at stage 2 and waiting for stage 3 to see if the AMC will even make an offer and what it might be? For us that stage only took about a few weeks, though I'd guess maybe 1-2 months is quite reasonable on their end since they want to verify that actual numbers and decide what's a reasonable guess going forward.

Then they will make some sort of offer and give your group a deadline to get back to them. The degree of nervousness you should have mostly depends on the partners in the group. Did they seek out this offer from an AMC and are looking to cash out? Or did they just happen to get cold called one too many times and finally agree to sit down and just listen to see what they have to say? We were in the latter and listened with an open mind and then told them to get bent after we saw the offer. Other groups might feel like they are on the deck of the Titantic going down and just looking to cash in their chips while they still can.
Click to expand...

Good post. But there are other more likely pathways. Usually involving deciding on how you are getting ****ed without even being bought dinner.
 
I'm currently a CA-1, after i read around this forum, it seems like the current market has a lot of uncertainties.

AMCs are sub-optimal at best, but PP can just as easily screw you over.

If i'm going into a market where PPs are constantly getting bought out by AMCs, i.e. Dallas.
Would it be fair for me to negotiate a very low non-compete in PPs contract? well i think it would be fair, but i guess a better question would be:
How likely are the PPs in the big AMC markets likely to accept your counters of low non-competes?
 
dchz said:
I'm currently a CA-1, after i read around this forum, it seems like the current market has a lot of uncertainties.

AMCs are sub-optimal at best, but PP can just as easily screw you over.

If i'm going into a market where PPs are constantly getting bought out by AMCs, i.e. Dallas.
Would it be fair for me to negotiate a very low non-compete in PPs contract? well i think it would be fair, but i guess a better question would be:
How likely are the PPs in the big AMC markets likely to accept your counters of low non-competes?
Click to expand...

I have seen USAP (aka Pinnacle's) non compete in Dallas. Too broad of a radius for non compete. Just cross it out. Any mile radius non compete especially in the anesthesia business is absurd. You aren't competing for patients unless you do chronic pain. Probably the only non compete I would accept is not to compete in the same hospital/surgery center practice I was contracted with USAP. But even a 0.1 mile radius is too broad.
 
Appreciate the input, quick (naive) question, how negotiable is the non-compete with AMCs in the DFW area?
 
dchz said:
I'm currently a CA-1, after i read around this forum, it seems like the current market has a lot of uncertainties.

AMCs are sub-optimal at best, but PP can just as easily screw you over.
Click to expand...


Kinda does feel like pick your poison doesn't it?

As much as I hate to admit it, that's on of the reasons why I ended up joining the AMC in my area. Felt like I was signing up for more of a "known". (My decision was very limited/driven by location and wife's preference too)

IMHO non-compete in or near home is an absolute deal breaker, but some random city where you wouldn't feel bad picking up and leaving if you didn't like it might be an option (granted you rent and don't have have kids in school). The AMC typically says this when you ask for a change in the contract "Well, Joe ...this is our standard contract and all of our docs nationally sign it. We feel it's fair and it's just not possible to change such a standard contract." In my experience, one AMC changed their contract and one stuck to their guns.

I feel like an AMC with the highest salary/best hours/non-hostile takeover history/no-noncompete or a pp that does a clause with a guaranteed portion of a buyout if you are in the middle of a partner track is what I'd look for.
 
Mman said:
When we were approached by multiple AMCs in the past, the process played out like this.
1) AMC says "Hi, want to listen to us talk while we buy you dinner?"
2) Group decides whether or not to sign NDA and open their books to AMC
3) AMC comes back with an offer
4) Group then gets back together and decides whether or not to accept the offer

Are you saying your Group is still at stage 2 and waiting for stage 3 to see if the AMC will even make an offer and what it might be? For us that stage only took about a few weeks, though I'd guess maybe 1-2 months is quite reasonable on their end since they want to verify that actual numbers and decide what's a reasonable guess going forward.

Then they will make some sort of offer and give your group a deadline to get back to them. The degree of nervousness you should have mostly depends on the partners in the group. Did they seek out this offer from an AMC and are looking to cash out? Or did they just happen to get cold called one too many times and finally agree to sit down and just listen to see what they have to say? We were in the latter and listened with an open mind and then told them to get bent after we saw the offer. Other groups might feel like they are on the deck of the Titantic going down and just looking to cash in their chips while they still can.
Click to expand...


The group sought out the offer, it is my understanding the offer has been made and the are negotiating details at this point.
 
Kkapa said:
The group sought out the offer, it is my understanding the offer has been made and the are negotiating details at this point.
Click to expand...

it's my understanding there usually aren't a lot of details. Mostly a take it or leave it kind of scenario and the details you can negotiate are so minor as to not hold things up.
 
Kkapa you don't seem concerned?! You are in a group for a year and they are getting bought out. Your partnership is null and you have wasted a yr of your time 🙁 Who cares what the contract will show. Did they seem like good people when you interviewed. Did AMC's ever come up during your initial interview/when you first arrived?
 
Scotty_G said:
Kkapa you don't seem concerned?! You are in a group for a year and they are getting bought out. Your partnership is null and you have wasted a yr of your time 🙁 Who cares what the contract will show. Did they seem like good people when you interviewed. Did AMC's ever come up during your initial interview/when you first arrived?
Click to expand...
yes, I am very concerned. I have several other offers, I am waiting to see if this goes through or not and what is offered so I can make a decision.
 
Good you should already be heading out. You should tell the partners that unfortunately this is not what you signed up for, and will be moving elsewhere.
 
Scotty_G said:
Good you should already be heading out. You should tell the partners that unfortunately this is not what you signed up for, and will be moving elsewhere.
Click to expand...

while that may ultimately be the right answer, it'd be pretty stupid at his present situation. I mean he might actually get cash out of it if they sell out and he stays or they might not make the deal and nothing changed for him. I mean if we had someone on a partnership track and they were 1+ year into it and we made a deal to sell to an AMC, they'd be in line for a lump sum of several hundred thousand dollars headed their way. Now that's us. Not everybody would do that. But I wouldn't bail in the middle of the situation.
 
I agree Mman but how do you know that is the situation? In my group the same thing would happen, but here it seems like the OP is in limbo.
 
Scotty_G said:
I agree Mman but how do you know that is the situation? In my group the same thing would happen, but here it seems like the OP is in limbo.
Click to expand...

Except that his limbo is status quo for his job, and he has other offers he can slow play.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app
 
pjl said:
Except that his limbo is status quo for his job, and he has other offers he can slow play.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app
Click to expand...
Correct, thankfully the other job offers are willing to wait, downside is that if I ultimately leave I am loosing time towards partnership at another group. It's also making for added stress with the uncertainty and lack of communication, we were told we would know more is 2 to 3 weeks about 6 weeks ago
 
should take 1-2 yrs. Each case is different but don't stick around for a couple hundred k that could easily be made up in a yr or 2 at a different local.
 
Stank811 said:
should take 1-2 yrs. Each case is different but don't stick around for a couple hundred k that could easily be made up in a yr or 2 at a different local.
Click to expand...
But if I leave and the sale doesnt go through I'd be kicking myself in the behind
 
Consigliere said:
They're pretty sweet gigs. The pay isn't the best but they have a kick ass retirement plan. My buddy works there and barely does anything.
Click to expand...

Doesn't it depend on the location? The VA in Albany, NY is a frequent gaswork posting.
 
Kkapa said:
But if I leave and the sale doesnt go through I'd be kicking myself in the behind
Click to expand...

I did not intend to suggest you should leave before the sale is final. But I wouldn't sign on with the AMC if the group does end up selling just bc they offer you a 100-200k dollars.
 
Consigliere said:
Probably. It's like real estate: location, location, location.....
Click to expand...

Yes. VA job desirability is primarily based on location.

The ones that always have real job openings are for obvious reasons. Location generally tends to suck.

Real job openings have hiring period more than 2-3 weeks in the job ad (look closely at the hiring ad). Than it's a real job opening. If job application period is for only a 2-3 week window. Assume the job is filled already. They just have to post it So that San Diego VA job u see opened. Forget it. It's been filled internally.

I'm just lucky I got into a "desirable" VA 2 months ago in a very good location. It's a long process. I applied in March 2016 when I found out an AMC was taking over my previous group. They had 200 plus applications for those 3 positions. It's just simply crazy these days. The positions were supposed to be "open" for 6 months but they shut down the application process after 3 weeks being open due to high demand.

2 of the positions went to internal transfers. And I was the lone "new" VA hire. I had a little help getting in though. Knowing people gets ur foot in a lot of places.

I know with my VA there are 3 MDs on the consideration list who will quit their current job immediately once funding opens up for the next position.

And it's just not MDs wanting to get into VA. There are 12 Crna's (from same private practice group (which merged into super AMC a couple of years ago) alone just on the waiting to get into same VA I'm at.

This is what happens when AMCs control 70-80% of the local market. The VA starts to sound very appealing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Changes after AMC Buyout
2
Replies
66
Views
7K
deleted126335
D
K
Negotiating contract for post buyout
Replies
1
Views
1K
BLADEMDA
BLADEMDA
S
Educate me on Anesthesia Buyout
Replies
22
Views
6K
IlDestriero
IlDestriero
D
GHA buyout in Houston
2
Replies
64
Views
11K
Mman
M
Top Bottom