Buzzword: Pediatric Dentistry

[Dr. Pedo]

It's seems like everywhere I turn someone is talking about PEDO. In the last 7 years, this field has grown into a monster. The residency spots for the most part are super competitive (incr. boards scores, gpa, etc...), the incomes of pedo DDS's are ridiculous , and it appears more and more are interested.

My question is WHY? ---Is it just simply trendy, the income, the lifestyle, the kids?????? I know many of my friends can't stand peds and many don't want to deal with the impossible kids/parents-----so what's the deal. I have my own reasons but I'm just interested in hearing from other people. Please no flame wars.

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[DcS]

For me personally, I love kids, and more importantly...I love working with children. I like the fact that I can have a direct positive impact on a person's view of their oral health for the rest of their life. I like the fact that parents are usually motivated to keep their children healthy and take an active interest in their dental care. I like working with physically and handicapped people and have always had compassion for that. I find development, both dentally and maturation-wise, interesting. Final piece and most important I think, I've worked in a Pedo office for several years before school so I know what a daily regimen is like to a pedodontist.

 

[ItsGavinC]

When we had our didactic pedo course, I really loved the material and can see myself being drawn to the field.

Having said that, I haven't had a pedo patient (or any patients!) yet, so I obviously really have no idea what I'm in store for.

I'm certainly not ruling out pedo, though.

 

[tx oms]

Pedo may actually be more useless than gum farming. The pedo guys around here don't do anything a general dentist can't do. Specifically, I'm looking at all you who refuse to see mentally handicapped kids and/or kids with an acute infection who don't have any chips.

 

[Energon]

One of the main reasons pediatric dentistry has become so popular is due to its high reembursement rates. The increase in income is directly proportional to the demand supply issue with pediatric dentists. There is a gross demand of pedos throughout the nation due to the high number of retiring pediatric dentists and the reduction in PG pedo spots over time.

 

[DcS]

Specifically, I'm looking at all you who refuse to see mentally handicapped kids and/or kids with an acute infection who don't have any chips.

Considering there is not 1 licensed pedodontist on this forum I'm not quite sure who "you" is referring to, but as my post indicated i look forward to working with handicapped children.

 

[Jediwendell]

One of the main reasons pediatric dentistry has become so popular is due to its high reembursement rates. The increase in income is directly proportional to the demand supply issue with pediatric dentists. There is a gross demand of pedos throughout the nation due to the high number of retiring pediatric dentists and the reduction in PG pedo spots over time.

You're kidding, right? Medicaid reimburses 60% of my fees. And a lot of the insurance companies pay me the same for my "specialist fee schedule" as they do for GPs. Now I will agree with the fact that there is a huge demand for pedos but the main reason why we make an increased salary is because we can see more volume than most GPs and has little to do with reimbursement rates.

TX OMS I really hope you were joking. I have a hard time imagining a GP with no OR or sedation experience doing what I do everyday. Look it up. Most of the deaths of children in dental offices are by GPs sedating kids when they have no right to be. I guess the next time I have a kid with a cyst around an impacted tooth or a fractured mandible come walking in my office I'll treat them since anybody can do your job too. I'm glad GPs know when to refer and you should be too. Dental students get a limited training in all aspects of dentistry and thats why specialties exist, to give those of us who want extensive training in one area that option. We shouldn't want GPs doing a bunch of stuff they read about in a book or saw a video on while they were in school.
Emily

 

[GQ1]

You're kidding, right? Medicaid reimburses 60% of my fees. And a lot of the insurance companies pay me the same for my "specialist fee schedule" as they do for GPs. Now I will agree with the fact that there is a huge demand for pedos but the main reason why we make an increased salary is because we can see more volume than most GPs and has little to do with reimbursement rates.

TX OMS I really hope you were joking. I have a hard time imagining a GP with no OR or sedation experience doing what I do everyday. Look it up. Most of the deaths of children in dental offices are by GPs sedating kids when they have no right to be. I guess the next time I have a kid with a cyst around an impacted tooth or a fractured mandible come walking in my office I'll treat them since anybody can do your job too. I'm glad GPs know when to refer and you should be too. Dental students get a limited training in all aspects of dentistry and thats why specialties exist, to give those of us who want extensive training in one area that option. We shouldn't want GPs doing a bunch of stuff they read about in a book or saw a video on while they were in school.
Emily

i agree with you, same goes for prostho and endo. the best one is when they (gps) tell you we do the same as a prostho they just charge more so they can use a better lab, or that endodontists just have higher powered microscopes.

 

[dWiz]

To people who say they love working with kids? I shadowed 2 different dentists, and I have to say the kids were the WORST, and their parents!! Your in a small room and trying to finish a procedure, while this kid is crying/screaming at the top of their lungs non-stop, I nearly went deaf. The dentist didn't seem fazed by it. I guess he was used to it. The money must be good, otherwise I can't imagine how someone would find this fun. And some parents, jeesh, they're more scared than the kids. Anyone who wants to know what being a ped is like, turn your stereo to max and shove your face in the speaker , oh yeah in a small room.

 

[Jediwendell]

To people who say they love working with kids? I shadowed 2 different dentists, and I have to say the kids were the WORST, and their parents!! Your in a small room and trying to finish a procedure, while this kid is crying/screaming at the top of their lungs non-stop, I nearly went deaf. The dentist didn't seem fazed by it. I guess he was used to it. The money must be good, otherwise I can't imagine how someone would find this fun. And some parents, jeesh, they're more scared than the kids. Anyone who wants to know what being a ped is like, turn your stereo to max and shove your face in the speaker , oh yeah in a small room.

Again, that's why people specialize to learn how to work with kids so that doesn't happen!

 

[Energon]

You're kidding, right? Medicaid reimburses 60% of my fees. And a lot of the insurance companies pay me the same for my "specialist fee schedule" as they do for GPs. Now I will agree with the fact that there is a huge demand for pedos but the main reason why we make an increased salary is because we can see more volume than most GPs and has little to do with reimbursement rates.
Emily

Oh i meant the fees that pediatric dentists charge today have increased. Most of the attendings I have dont really accept medicaid in their private practice. They have however increased their fees for procedures they do (again based on demand/supply).... also true, you guys can see a lot more patients.

Lastly, do pedos also do interceptive orthodontics?

 

[Dr. Pedo]

Pedo may actually be more useless than gum farming. The pedo guys around here don't do anything a general dentist can't do. Specifically, I'm looking at all you who refuse to see mentally handicapped kids and/or kids with an acute infection who don't have any chips.

I couldn't resist----If Pedo is useless, you best talk to an ENT, they find you omfs' useful for scut work like mandible fractures and an occassional le forte. Any higher than the zygomatic (not inclusive of the nose either) and lower than the mandible and you best call in the real surgeons . As for wizzies-----who can't pull em'. The question is who wants to and more importantly who wants to manage the dry socket. Implants---rather have a periodontist do it and any gp for that matter. You are to ENT's what podiatrists are to orthopaedic surgeons. Now get of the thread ol' glorified podiatrist of the face. This of course is in good humor-----I have respect for anyone who has gone through dental school---- what you do with you degree afterwards is another story Enough flaming but I must say

 

[aphistis]

Oh i meant the fees that pediatric dentists charge today have increased. Most of the attendings I have dont really accept medicaid in their private practice. They have however increased their fees for procedures they do (again based on demand/supply).... also true, you guys can see a lot more patients.

Lastly, do pedos also do interceptive orthodontics?

Interceptive?

Now that you've got me thinking about it, "interventional orthodontics" sounds like a hella cool name for a dental specialty.

 

[groundhog]

Pedo may actually be more useless than gum farming. The pedo guys around here don't do anything a general dentist can't do. Specifically, I'm looking at all you who refuse to see mentally handicapped kids and/or kids with an acute infection who don't have any chips.

Pedo is here to stay and rising mainly because of the prestige factor. A mom on Rodeo Dr "princess just loves her pedodontist...show Paige your smile sweety."

 

[Jediwendell]

Oh i meant the fees that pediatric dentists charge today have increased. Most of the attendings I have dont really accept medicaid in their private practice. They have however increased their fees for procedures they do (again based on demand/supply).... also true, you guys can see a lot more patients.

Lastly, do pedos also do interceptive orthodontics?

It reallly depends on the individual. I don't like ortho so I do very little but I know a lot of pediatric dentists who do. I mainly do ant x-bites and refer post ones. You will get training in it during residency though. Plus it helps to be married to a future orthodontist!

 

[tx oms]

Considering there is not 1 licensed pedodontist on this forum I'm not quite sure who "you" is referring to, but as my post indicated i look forward to working with handicapped children.

"you" refers to the pedodontists in my area of the country. I said "around here", not around "this site".

TX OMS I really hope you were joking.

I'm not joking about the pedodontists around here. They use their office as a cash cow and refuse to see those most in need. Sure, they sedate and have more experience sedating. I suppose, but don't know, that they have OR privelages. Still, they don't use those abilities to help with mentally handicapped and/or poor kids to any meaningful level. No one likes poor people in their office, but they're a fact of life.

 

[tx oms]

I couldn't resist----If Pedo is useless, you best talk to an ENT, they find you omfs' useful for scut work like mandible fractures and an occassional le forte.

ENT's here are useful for my scut work: dizziness, earaches, and runny noses. Where I work those are the only differences. I pick up their slack all the time.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

I think there are two main reasons for the pedo craze:

1. Money. People see the income statistics from the ADA and the dollar signs in their eyes pop up.

2. Pedo has the reputation of being the "easy" speciality to get in. So those people whose ortho dreams of a high income slowly die as reality kicks in, they look at pedo as a feasible backup to satisfy their money desires.

However, the above two dont apply to all (I'd say 90% of newbie pedo wannabes)....as for the others, I think its great that more people are getting interested in pedo....there definitely is a need for pedodontists in the country. However, for people starting to get interested in pedo, simply saying "I love kids" is a step forward, but you really should do anything you can to shadow in a full fledged pediatric office (and IM not talking about the pedo dept at your school, cause that is far from the reality of the life of a pedodontist)....cause really at times its total chaos and really takes the right person to be able to handle it.

Im lucky in the sense that I love children and that when children scream at the top of their lungs (and trust me, it gets bad at times), it just goes through one ear and out the other....doesnt bother me. Im gonna have to wait until I get into clinics to see if I can handle the actual operative part of peds.

However, the main problem I have right now is that sometimes Im too soft with the kids....for instance, I still have a hard time seeing children strapped into papoose boards....however, over time and trying to get as much exposure as I can, its getting better and Im hoping that in 3 years when Im ready to apply, Ill be totally immune to it. Its a learning process and its never too early to start!

Ive been told that pedo residencies can tell from the interview if the person is a true pedodontist, or one that is just out for the benjamins.....but can they always be right? I hope so, cause it was not until recently that I found out that peds make a higher income than GPs and Ive always wanted to be a pedodontist for most of my life.

Also as JediWendell said, the higher income is partly due to the fact that peds see many more patients. For some, that means more work, more headaches, more screaming brats.....for me, its just more fun!!!

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

"I'm not joking about the pedodontists around here. They use their office as a cash cow and refuse to see those most in need. Sure, they sedate and have more experience sedating. I suppose, but don't know, that they have OR privelages. Still, they don't use those abilities to help with mentally handicapped and/or poor kids to any meaningful level. No one likes poor people in their office, but they're a fact of life.

Ive heard the same about pedodontists....and thats a shame. I plan on working primarily with poor and mentally handicapped children. My MPH is gonna focus on international pediatric dental public health, and Im getting very involved in the AADMD (American Academy of Developmental Medicine and Dentistry).

The peds Ive talked to have said that the lack of treatment towards these sorts of population has been becoming quite the concern these days, so hopefully when I apply, pedo residencies will see that Im damn serious about treating that specific population.

 

[toofache32]

ENT's here are useful for my scut work: dizziness, earaches, and runny noses. Where I work those are the only differences. I pick up their slack all the time.

Ditto where I work. Especially with trauma. The ENT guys stop by our Program Director's office routinely for "advice" on the best way to treat their panfacial fractures. Sometimes they just give the whole case to us since we have to come in and do the mandible anyway.

Not to mention the Ophthalmologist's family member who was brought in after an MVC who requested OMFS even though ENT was on-call that night.

 

[ItsGavinC]

1. Money. People see the income statistics from the ADA and the dollar signs in their eyes pop up.


Also as JediWendell said, the higher income is partly due to the fact that peds see many more patients. For some, that means more work, more headaches, more screaming brats.....for me, its just more fun!!!

2 comments from me:

1. MANY people enter specialties for money. Pedo isn't any different in this regard than OMS, endo, ortho, or even deciding on dentistry as a profession.

2. Don't paint yourself a completely miserable picture. Not every pedo patient is a headache or a screaming brat. I'm shadowing a pediatric dentist right now and he has very little trouble with his patients. We've had an entire DAY go by without a kid screaming (a little crying here and there). My son sees this same dentist and he's hasn't let out so much as a wimper.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

2 comments from me:

1. MANY people enter specialties for money. Pedo isn't any different in this regard than OMS, endo, ortho, or even deciding on dentistry as a profession.

2. Don't paint yourself a completely miserable picture. Not every pedo patient is a headache or a screaming brat. I'm shadowing a pediatric dentist right now and he has very little trouble with his patients. We've had an entire DAY go by without a kid screaming (a little crying here and there). My son sees this same dentist and he's hasn't let out so much as a wimper.

I was awaiting Gavin's reply...came faster than I thought.

First of all, I agree with you on the money, but the reason I mentioned it is that I think its bad reasoning for choosing pedo moreso than the other residencies. Pedo takes a special type of person and if one goes into pedo for money, they will surely hate their job. ALthough pedo pays well, its not a cushy job like ortho where going into for it for money is more understandable. If you go into pedo, you have to have a love for pedo and not the all mighty buck, but thats just my opinion.

And secondly...when did I paint the picture that all the children were screaming brats? I just said that its a big part of the job and that for many people, a crying kid can be considered a brat or headache....so if you are willing to devote your entire career to it, you better be well prepared that every patient has the POSSIBILITY of being a "screaming brat"....or they have the POSSIBILITY of being a sweet angel. Gotta be able to deal with both.

 

[gryffindor]

ALthough pedo pays well, its not a cushy job like ortho where going into for it for money is more understandable. If you go into pedo, you have to have a love for pedo and not the all mighty buck, but thats just my opinion.

So when I get asked "Why ortho?" at my next interview, I'll tell them "I just want to make a lot of $$$ and drive a Benz."

If the interviewer looks at me in shock, I'll continue with "Hey, if I actually cared about kids & dentistry, I would've applied to Pedo instead."

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

So when I get asked "Why ortho?" at my next interview, I'll tell them "I just want to make a lot of $$$ and drive a Benz."

If the interviewer looks at me in shock, I'll continue with "Hey, if I actually cared about kids & dentistry, I would've applied to Pedo instead."

All I was saying was that ortho is a cushy job that pays very well and that is the reasoning of 99% of people who go into ortho ....you really dont need to love working with children as much as pedo to do ortho.

However, pedo is not a cushy job that pays well, and you are forced to love working with children to do pedo....if you do pedo for the money, its not the same as ortho in the sense that you'll hate your job more.

well, thats what my argument is anyways.