Cadaver dissections

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bioteach

bioteach

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It was mentioned in the thread below that at least one D.O. school (AT Still-Mesa) doesn't have gross anatomy dissections, but uses prosections instead. Are there any other schools that do this as well?

I really want my med school education to include dissections. I know I'll find this info out when I go for interviews, but I'd like to know earlier as it might affect my decision to interview. I've looked on school websites, but some don't mention it one way or the other.

Anyone know for sure if any other schools don't do hands-on cadaver dissections?
 
Personally I think dissection is better than prosection...but having prosected specimens to view can help you learn.

I dont think you will necessarily learn less by not dissecting.

Its when the schools get rid of anatomy lab altogether...thats when the dumbing down of medicine will begin.
 
I think MSUCOM works this way. anyone agree or disagree?
 
In my most humble opinion (having dissected for only about 9 hours so far,) I think dissection is far better than prossection. Sure you have to cut through a lot of fat and the prossection is so much easier to look at, but you learn so well when you have to figure out what the hell you are cutting through.
 
JPHazelton said:
...I dont think you will necessarily learn less by not dissecting....
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Did the kinder, gentler JP return again? I think I remember arguing about this one for weeks in the past...LOL. 😀

For the OP: Lecom-Bradenton uses prosections. If you want to dissect, you can do it in your second year. A few of my friends chose to do that. But I loved prosections because we were finished with Anatomy in 10 weeks. There's just no way you can do that and dissect too. I still had plenty of time to get elbow deep into all the gook and gore all I wanted.

The thing that a lot of people don't realize is that prosections aren't all done altready. Little by little, it's done for you so that when you get into lab for the day the fat and fascia have been peeled back and you can poke around all you want. Some of ours were done by second years and some by the anatomy professors. Believe me, you can tell which ones had been cut on by students (a lot of the parts you were looking for went into the trash by mistake 🙂)

Some people like it one way and some like it the other. It really doesn't matter that much in my opinion... but after 10 weeks of anatomy i was READY to make my exit. One note, though, anatom,y isn't really ever over for you. As a potential osteopathic student you will NEVER stop studying anatomy. It is much more important for you to know it than for allopathic students. That's why you'll find a lot of second years spending some time in the lab too. :luck::luck::luck:
 
scpod said:
Did the kinder, gentler JP return again? I think I remember arguing about this one for weeks in the past...LOL. 😀
Click to expand...

Its easier to agree with some people than try to educate them. 👍
 
we prosect at DCOM...i do appreciate the idea that i can spend more time hunting for structures and understanding what they do. i dont appreciate the lack of spatial relativity (if that makes sense) of the parts to other parts, fascia, fat, etc. If I had to choose, prosect > dissect, but I have VERY little dissection experience, so take that opinion with a lot of salt. im hoping that I can help prepare the prosected cadavers next year, which would complete my experience and probably complete my opinion too. thats my 2 cents. i will say the early (like 1st week...) complex structures like brachial plexus and some of the forearm stuff has to be easier prosected. thats my opinion/2 cents from a second WEEK medical student - dont look too far into that, i dont know a thing yet. I wont know jack for a while either. Hope this helps.
 
I'm also at LECOM Bradenton and agree with scpod. On the one hand it would be interesting to get involved in a full dissection, but, especially in our initial 10 week anatomy section, there just isn't time.

Even so, I feel like I'm doing just fine and am actually learning the anatomy. I'll come in during the evenings when there aren't many students in the lab and can pretty much sit there with a cadaver to myself poking around with my atlas next to me.
 
Yes, MSUCOM is one of the schools that use prosection.
 
We dissected in our first two semesters of the physical therapy program at UTMB. I sort of wish we would have more access to the bodies in the latter vs earlier stages of training. You get a better perspective when you see a torn rotator cuff or nasty case of RA after you've learned about them. My 2 pesos.
 
PT2MD said:
...I sort of wish we would have more access to the bodies in the latter vs earlier stages of training. You get a better perspective when you see a torn rotator cuff or nasty case of RA after you've learned about them. My 2 pesos.
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That's exactly what I like about the second year of med school when you have the chance to go back into the cadaver lab and look in some more detail (obviously, without the added pressure of being tested on it). You get to explore a few thiungs that you didn't have the time to do earlier. By that time, you've learned an amazing amount about the body that you never knew during anatomy, and you have the added bonus of having studied some pathology.
 
How many schools with prosections give the opportunity for dissection at a later date? I know quite a few schools that offer this (MD/DO) but I don't know how widespread it is. From talking to students, prosection gets it done. Those interested in surgery or want to refine their skills, they can do it the 2nd time around and seeing it once apparently helps out rather than plunging into it blindly. One person stated to me that the residents who were training the students in dissection try to keep sharp objects out of their hands until 3rd year 😉 Just meaning you don't have any experience and its alot of time to do dissections. I'd like to go to a school that offers dissection if interested so maybe other students would be interested in similar schools.
 
At Nova we have a cadaver lab lab with 20+ bodies for dissection and another lab with a couple less bodies that are already prosected. So you can do your dissection (which I mentioned earlier as a great way to learn the structures, but probably not for everyone.) and then walk across the hall and see the prosection. So if you didn't like to cut, you could spend more time in the prosection lab. However, everyone is expected to do some dissecting.
 
bioteach said:
It was mentioned in the thread below that at least one D.O. school (AT Still-Mesa) doesn't have gross anatomy dissections, but uses prosections instead. Are there any other schools that do this as well?

I really want my med school education to include dissections. I know I'll find this info out when I go for interviews, but I'd like to know earlier as it might affect my decision to interview. I've looked on school websites, but some don't mention it one way or the other.

Anyone know for sure if any other schools don't do hands-on cadaver dissections?
Click to expand...

Dissections suck; having to wade through all that fascia and fat just to find some nerve that you most likely hacked in half is worthless. Plus, you have idiots that come along after you and put their probe in the wrong places, ruining your hard work. Trust me, having done dissections and then having seen what a professional with 20 some years of doing it can do, my vote is for prosections.
 
Kuba said:
At Nova we have a cadaver lab lab with 20+ bodies for dissection and another lab with a couple less bodies that are already prosected. So you can do your dissection (which I mentioned earlier as a great way to learn the structures, but probably not for everyone.) and then walk across the hall and see the prosection. So if you didn't like to cut, you could spend more time in the prosection lab. However, everyone is expected to do some dissecting.
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It's so crazy to hear all you guys talking about your first few weeks in medical school, it makes me jealous!!! I hope you are loving the start of something that you guys all worked so hard for!!!
 
LECOM-Erie uses both a dissection and prosection approach. There are three groups. Groups A and B get to dissect and then 2 people from group A or B teach group C on a prosected cadaver. Then the next lab you rotate slots so you are dissecting or teaching. Also, the bodies are already slightly prosected when you get there. They have already removed the skin and subcutaneous layers.
 
PCOM has a bit more than 50 cadavers, a few of which are prosected. We also have scores of plastinated specimens. 👍
 
JaggerPlate said:
It's so crazy to hear all you guys talking about your first few weeks in medical school, it makes me jealous!!! I hope you are loving the start of something that you guys all worked so hard for!!!
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I know I am loving it. Its fun to come back on here once in a while (when I can find the time) to see whats happening on this board. I have only been an M1 for the past few weeks, but I have completely comitted myself to the job of "medical student". Its A LOT of work, but its also A LOT of fun!

Good Luck to all of you as you start your journey!
 
scpod said:
Back from your self-imposed exile, Jamers?
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You know better than anyone else that it is all the same old crap on SDN year after year. I think I lost my will to write on here after I saw the 50th rendition of " DO NOT GO TO LECOM, THEY HAVE SNAKES IN THE CLASSROOMS!!!!" thread...
 
CuttinEmUp said:
oh geesh....that little comment speaks VOLUMES...now im a little freaked out. :scared:😱
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I think it is one of those "famous last words" situations. Just like saying the Q word in the ER.
 
I liked dissection the first and second day but already by today I was a li'l bit bored and tired of cutting away chunks of god-knows-what to get to a structure that I could see better on someone else's cadaver anyway.

I am exaggerating for a little comedic effect.

I really like my gross lab so far... Plus I get to wear scrubs, which is way-cool!
 
gross anatomy w/ cadaveric dissections is by far the best.
It all comes together quicker when what you see in person what you learned in lectures. Although Rohen's Atlas does a pretty good job.
 
i personally really like that the cadavers are prosected, it gives me a lot more time to focus on learning what i need to know. but i guess it's just a personal preference, it's hard to say what you'll like better until you've actually experienced both approaches.
 
At NYCOM, we do dissection. I just had my second anatomy lab and enjoying it so far.
Since you need to know how things are in relationship to one another rather than knowing and just identifying parts, discovering yourself and making mistakes help you learn better. Needless to say, there are variations from body to body. So, I personally prefer dissection.

I don't know how prosection works, but if schools are using it, it must be adequate.
 
MCATTT said:
At NYCOM, we do dissection. I just had my second anatomy lab and enjoying it so far.
Since you need to know how things are in relationship to another rather than knowing and just identifying parts, discovering yourself and making mistakes help you learn better. So, I personally prefer dissection.

I don't know how prosection works, but if schools are using it, it must be adequate.
Click to expand...

I like the palpation skills you can learn when doing a dissection. I know it's early for us MS-1'ers, but it was kind of neat feeling the striations in the muscle and the differences between the different layers of the skin/fascia.
 
arsenewenger said:
No people skills i.e. anti social
Click to expand...

I have great people skills.

People around here mistake me for being an dingus because Im a realist.

When you dont want to believe the truth you see the messenger as an enemy.
 
Dr JPH said:
I have great people skills.

People around here mistake me for being an dingus because Im a realist.

When you dont want to believe the truth you see the messenger as an enemy.
Click to expand...

I was passively watching some crappy cheech movie the other day and one of the lines was.

1: "Oh my god...."
2: "What? Terorrist!?"
1: "Worse.....Idealist"

I found it humorous
 
Dr JPH said:
I have great people skills.

People around here mistake me for being an dingus because Im a realist.

When you dont want to believe the truth you see the messenger as an enemy.
Click to expand...

I think the difference between the two is the amount of tact used.
 
Onstarr said:
gross anatomy w/ cadaveric dissections is by far the best.
It all comes together quicker when what you see in person what you learned in lectures. Although Rohen's Atlas does a pretty good job.
Click to expand...

Is Rohen's a photographic atlas? We use Grants and (of course) Netters predominantly at PCOM.
 
MaximusD said:
Is Rohen's a photographic atlas? We use Grants and (of course) Netters predominantly at PCOM.
Click to expand...

Yes

But it can be difficult to learn structures from that book.

To the people here who complain that cadaveric tissue is a useless tool to learn from, imagine PICTURES of cadaveric tissue.

Stick with Gross lab and Netter. 👍
 
Dr JPH said:
Yes

But it can be difficult to learn structures from that book.

To the people here who complain that cadaveric tissue is a useless tool to learn from, imagine PICTURES of cadaveric tissue.

Stick with Gross lab and Netter. 👍
Click to expand...

hey JP, you need to check out table 42 in the cadaver lab when you get the chance... there is a pacemaker and... some other gender-based anamalies... PM for details. It stumped three professors/doctors.
 
MaximusD said:
hey JP, you need to check out table 42 in the cadaver lab when you get the chance... there is a pacemaker and... some other gender-based anamalies... PM for details. It stumped three professors/doctors.
Click to expand...

I will. Im on campus on Tuesday. Maybe I will stop by.
 
I could go either way on dissection vs prosection. There were definately a few fun/beneficial times dissecting, but there were many long boring days when we would try to just get everything opened so we get out of lab and study for some other test. I probably would have preferred to do prosection a little more.
 
Daddydoc said:
I could go either way on dissection vs prosection. There were definately a few fun/beneficial times dissecting, but there were many long boring days when we would try to just get everything opened so we get out of lab and study for some other test. I probably would have preferred to do prosection a little more.
Click to expand...

Personally I liked having both...as well as plastinated specimens for study as well.
 
Dr JPH said:
Personally I liked having both...as well as plastinated specimens for study as well.
Click to expand...

The plastinated specimens are great. 👍👍 Much better and casual than unwrapping the cadaver and digging out the parts of choice if you only want to review for a few minutes without changing into scrubs and throwing on a lab coat...
 
MaximusD said:
Is Rohen's a photographic atlas? We use Grants and (of course) Netters predominantly at PCOM.
Click to expand...

at UNECOM, we also use the Netters & Grants like the bible but i just feel netter's is insufficient because the images they use in Netters is "TOO" perfect. when you dissect the body, it almost never looks like the images from Netters. So using Rohen (photographic cadaveuric atlas)as a supplement was a wise move IMO - esp. for the lab practical exams.. (but then i donno how they run things at pcom) Thieme's Musculoskeletal atlas is also excellent. heh i own all 4.. (a bit overboard but.. shrugs..u can never have too many atlases)

cliff notes: you cant go wrong w/ netters & grants in general. however rohen can be used for clarification since they contain real images
 
Onstarr said:
at UNECOM, we also use the Netters & Grants like the bible but i just feel netter's is insufficient because the images they use in Netters is "TOO" perfect. when you dissect the body, it almost never looks like the images from Netters. So using Rohen (photographic cadaveuric atlas)as a supplement was a wise move IMO - esp. for the lab practical exams.. (but then i donno how they run things at pcom) Thieme's Musculoskeletal atlas is also excellent. heh i own all 4.. (a bit overboard but.. shrugs..u can never have too many atlases)

cliff notes: you cant go wrong w/ netters & grants in general. however rohen can be used for clarification since they contain real images
Click to expand...

I agree. I like Rohen better than Netters. Also, so far Grant's Dissector has been almost useless to me for the back upper limbs.
 
Kuba said:
I agree. I like Rohen better than Netters. Also, so far Grant's Dissector has been almost useless to me for the back upper limbs.
Click to expand...

Rohen may be beneficial for passing anatomy lab but Netter will be better for understanding vascular and nervous supply. I dont think you can use Rohen for much more than anatomy lab exam prep.
 
bioteach said:
It was mentioned in the thread below that at least one D.O. school (AT Still-Mesa) doesn't have gross anatomy dissections, but uses prosections instead. Are there any other schools that do this as well?

I really want my med school education to include dissections. I know I'll find this info out when I go for interviews, but I'd like to know earlier as it might affect my decision to interview. I've looked on school websites, but some don't mention it one way or the other.

Anyone know for sure if any other schools don't do hands-on cadaver dissections?
Click to expand...

I am glad that we use cadavers over prosections. In my cadaver we were actually able to find an interesting abnormality in the circulatory system.
 
Kappy1 said:
I am glad that we use cadavers over prosections. In my cadaver we were actually able to find an interesting abnormality in the circulatory system.
Click to expand...

Wait, when a school has prosections they're still using cadavers right? Or am I confused?
 
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