Calculus during post-bacc?

[remzremz]

I was a humanities major and did not take any science or math (besides statistics) courses in college. Next year I will either be doing a structured part-time post-bacc course or making my own by taking the required science classes.

Based on my research, about 25% of medical schools require calculus. For those of you non-traditional students who did not take calculus during college, did you take during your post-bacc years? Did you just decide to skip it and not apply to those 25% of medical schools? Anyone non-traditional students skip it and are currently enrolled in medical school? Thanks!

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[Gurby]

I just took Calc 1 this past semester, and wish I had taken it sooner. I think it would have helped with chemistry and (algrebra-based) physics - not necessary of course, but I feel like there are a lot of things I would have understood better if I had taken calc first.

Also, I remember your post from the HES thread... I'm not a math person, but Calc 1 (Math E-15) at HES (taught by Eric Towne) was one of the best courses I've ever taken. If you end up going to HES, definitely take at least 1 semester of calc with him.

 

[JW2020]

It's worth it just to suck it up and take it. You want to keep as many options open as possible. I actually think Trig was much more difficult than calculus.

 

[Y = bX+a]

I have been thinking about this quite a bit over the last few months and am happy to see someone else ask this question. The last time I took calculus was in high school, about 12 years ago now. The conundrum that I found myself in is that the post-bac program I am strongly considering does not offer calc, which means I would have to find a way to take it outside of the program. I am thinking of trying to enroll in a CC course (and the prereq) over the next few semesters prior to my (hopeful) enrollment in a post-bac program. Anyone done anything similar?

In the meantime I have also begun utilizing coursera.org and khanacademy.org to refresh myself in a “safe” manner so that when I take the course for real I already have some familiarity with the material (as I know math, besides stats, is my weak point as I haven’t used it much in the past decade).

 

[Dares Dareson]

Oh man...

So when I embarked on this journey, the last math class I took was Algebra 2, in high school, in 1998, and I got a D-.

I retaught myself basic algebra, but I had to take College Algebra and Trig at community college before taking Calculus I the next semester. It worked out just fine 16 years after I had had any math. My advice: take it at a community college.

Are you sure that med schools require Calculus? I applied to about 13 of them, some highly ranked, and none required Calculus. Usually it's more complicated--like a school will require math through College Algebra (pre calc) and Statistics, OR Calculus I to cover both classes. Whatever the case, I think you should take Calculus I just to show you have skills. It certainly won't hurt and it's really not that difficult.

 

[edgerock24]

Calculus is 100% useless for a post-bacc. The level of "math" involved in chemistry and algebra-based physics in NO WAY requires the knowledge/practice of Calculus. If you are ready to take a Calculus course, then you are 120% ready to take gen chem and algebra based physics.

Moreover, you can apply and become accepted to one of the few medical schools that require calc without having taken it. You'd just need to take it before matriculation. For now, @remzremz, focusing on science courses would be much more beneficial.

 

[Gurby]

Calculus is 100% useless for a post-bacc. The level of "math" involved in chemistry and algebra-based physics in NO WAY requires the knowledge/practice of Calculus.

I agree that knowledge of calculus is not required for success in chemistry and algebra-based physics. I disagree with the statement that calculus is useless in those classes.

 

[remzremz]

Calculus is 100% useless for a post-bacc. The level of "math" involved in chemistry and algebra-based physics in NO WAY requires the knowledge/practice of Calculus. If you are ready to take a Calculus course, then you are 120% ready to take gen chem and algebra based physics.

Moreover, you can apply and become accepted to one of the few medical schools that require calc without having taken it. You'd just need to take it before matriculation. For now, @remzremz, focusing on science courses would be much more beneficial.

Thanks for the post! How much of a college-level pre-calc knowledge is needed for post-bacc science classes? I haven't taken pre-calc or calc since high school. I did not take any math classes (besides stat) in college. What math knowledge would you recommend brushing up on prior to take post-bacc science classes?

Also, if I am accepted to one of the few medical schools that require calc, is there any time to take it before matriculation? I assume acceptances come out around March and medical school starts in August.

 

[Dares Dareson]

Thanks for the post! How much of a college-level pre-calc knowledge is needed for post-bacc science classes? I haven't taken pre-calc or calc since high school. I did not take any math classes (besides stat) in college. What math knowledge would you recommend brushing up on prior to take post-bacc science classes?

Not much. Basic algebra for chem, and basic trig/geometry for physics.

 

[edgerock24]

Thanks for the post! How much of a college-level pre-calc knowledge is needed for post-bacc science classes? I haven't taken pre-calc or calc since high school. I did not take any math classes (besides stat) in college. What math knowledge would you recommend brushing up on prior to take post-bacc science classes?

Also, if I am accepted to one of the few medical schools that require calc, is there any time to take it before matriculation? I assume acceptances come out around March and medical school starts in August.

You'd have plenty of time to take calc before matriculation. Frankly, you could simply note on your application that you "plan" to take calculus during the Fall/Spring semester of the cycle that you apply, and then enroll in the course during one of those semesters.

 

[ghostman]

Dares is correct. Algebra, trig and geometry is all you need for postbacc. That's not to say it's easy since you have to be good at manipulating several equations at the same time and knowing when X in one equation is equal to Y in another. But absolutely no physics is required (although some physics courses do use calculus, so make sure to find out before enrolling).

In med school, you will hardly touch any of the math used in pre-med. You may use the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation infrequently, Winter's formula, FiO2, FENa, etc., but all of these are plug and chug formulas.

I had already taken AP calc in high school and got college credit for it. I would not want to touch calculus again. If I were in your shoes, I'd avoid the hassle and pain of calculus unless you love math, want to know if for some research or want to get into a med school that requires calculus.

 

[mavric1298]

I would say it's totally worth it for physics and for MCAT, even though it's not directly tested/needed. You will understand things like velocity vs acceleration much better if you understand derivatives, otherwise a bunch of physics is just hand waving and "because I said so"

 

[jl lin]

Agree w/ mavric. Learning to understand is the essence of true education--of being truly educated. That's why grades alone don't cut it IMHO. Plenty do whatever and get the grades, but they can't really teach it back or necessarily apply it well down the road. Can you see and explain it years after you have taken XYZ ? This is an essential part of true learning to me. Of course there is a curve of forgetting; but the point of education is to learn and then apply. The greater the understanding, the more likely you will hold on to that knowledge, add more to it, and apply it.

But to each, whatever.

 

[nontradjd]

On a related note, should I take algebra-based physics or calculus-based physics?

 

[Gurby]

On a related note, should I take algebra-based physics or calculus-based physics?

This is kind of a hotly debated topic... General consensus of SDN seems to be that you should probably just take algebra-based physics.

I would say it depends a lot on you as a student, and what the courses are like at your school. I think calculus can be used to increase understanding and learning, but I get the feeling that it is also sometimes used to just make courses harder artificially.

 

[jl lin]

Hail to Newton and Leibniz and infinitesimal calculus.

 

[nontradjd]

This is kind of a hotly debated topic... General consensus of SDN seems to be that you should probably just take algebra-based physics.

I would say it depends a lot on you as a student, and what the courses are like at your school. I think calculus can be used to increase understanding and learning, but I get the feeling that it is also sometimes used to just make courses harder artificially.

OK, well, my state school requires Calculus, so I'll be taking it as part of my post-bacc. My last algebraic course (College Alg & Trig) was almost a decade ago. So, perhaps, calc-based may be better? I guess I'll see how I do in Calc, haha. Thanks!

 

[mavric1298]

sorry, it doesn't work like that. If you don't know algebra, you can't do calc.

Take algebra based.

 

[nontradjd]

sorry, it doesn't work like that. If you don't know algebra, you can't do calc.

Take algebra based.

Well, obviously. I haven't completely forgotten algebra. However, I think I've decided on alg-based after reading some other sources on the differences between how physics is taught between the two. I'd rather just have the formula rather than be expected to derive it.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Calculus is 100% useless for a post-bacc. The level of "math" involved in chemistry and algebra-based physics in NO WAY requires the knowledge/practice of Calculus. If you are ready to take a Calculus course, then you are 120% ready to take gen chem and algebra based physics.

Moreover, you can apply and become accepted to one of the few medical schools that require calc without having taken it. You'd just need to take it before matriculation. For now, @remzremz, focusing on science courses would be much more beneficial.

I disagree. Calculus was a lot easier than general chemistry for me.

OP, Calculus is like algebra. Scary stories but not difficult for everyone. Just take it and have more doors open.

 

[TrebleBassFace]

Calculus is super easy IMO. Got a 5 in BC Calculus back in high school. I think it's easier than Chemistry.

 

[MD89]

If I were in your position, I would take algebra-based physics. Then, later, if you decide you want to apply/attend a school that requires calculus, you can always take it any semester you want. This way, you won't delay your post-bacc/mcat an extra semester but will still have all your options open.

I took calculus for credit in high school but didn't remember any of it by the time I took physics (algebra-based). The most important math I used in physics was SOHCAHTOA and some trig stuff, which is easy enough to brush up on independent of any course (assuming you learned it properly the first time around).

 

[DocWinter]

Everyone is going to have they own opinion on it, and I would advise you to take it only if you are math-savvy, and avoid it heavily if you are not.

I didn't take it and never had a problem. Nothing in calc is needed for med school, MCAT, and most applications. Some schools do require it. But it really cones down to your ability to pull a decent grade in a notoriously difficult course. It can really kill you if you aren't of that build.

 

[remzremz]

Everyone is going to have they own opinion on it, and I would advise you to take it only if you are math-savvy, and avoid it heavily if you are not.

I didn't take it and never had a problem. Nothing in calc is needed for med school, MCAT, and most applications. Some schools do require it. But it really cones down to your ability to pull a decent grade in a notoriously difficult course. It can really kill you if you aren't of that build.

Thanks! If I end up applying to schools (Harvard, Sinai, etc.) that require it prior to matriculation, then I'll likely only sign up for the class if I get an interview (or acceptance) at one of those schools.