California professional schools

[psycholytic]

Of the following programs, please give some input what you chose, or would choose if you know them.

Alliant (CSPP), PhD-clinical
Azusa , PsyD-clinical
Argosy , PsyD-counseling


Thanks

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[Therapist4Chnge]

One thing I'd definitely check is the APPIC Internship Placement % (for APA-Acreditted programs). There are ton of other factors, but i'd pretty much cross off any program that isn't at least at the national average of placement or close to it. If you end up at a place that places 50% of their ppl....who knows how long it will take you to place (it is just getting more and more competitive each year)

Best of luck.

-t

 

[ClinPsyD917]

I'm applying to CA prof schools...

Alliant, I applied for the Clin PsyD, not PhD. I think with Alliant it depends a lot on the campus you want to go to... for example, I happen to think their San Diego campus for the Clin PsyD is the best... and if you look on their website, you will see that for my program, SD has SO many more choices for emphases, etc. I like the small class sizes and such... I know a couple people who graduated from there years ago, when it was still CSPP, and I think they got PhDs... they are very successful now, have nothing but good things to say about the school, and love their work. They attended the SD campus.

Azusa, I looked into, but it follows quite a religious perspective, which is not me nor is it something I want to specifically integrate into my practice... sorry, not much help there.

For Argosy, I applied to their Clinical PsyD program at San Francisco and Orange County... a couple things about this school... one is that everyone I have come into contact with has been extremely nice and helpful. The admissions recruiters or coordinaters have called and emailed me several times to make sure I am doing ok with the application and have no questions. I really love the small class sizes here, and they only have class 2x per week (at least for the SF Clinical PsyD program), which is great if you hope to work and go to school. The only negative thing is that I have been on their email list for over a year, and I received countless emails encouraging me to apply immediately. Let me clarify. In December, they emailed me saying there was still time to apply for the Spring semester... which starts in January. Why do they still have spots open at this point?!?! I don't know much about their Counseling Psych program.

It's all what you want and what is best for you, and what you plan to do with the degree. Beware, a lot of people on this forum will tell you that you're wasting your time and money even thinking about degrees from these schools. Professional schools are not the right choice for everyone, but as long as you understand the pros (for me, PsyD programs in CA) and the cons (debt, debt, debt), you will be able to make the choice that's right for you. Once you do, don't let others talk you out of it! Hope this helped...

Did you apply this year? If so, have you heard anything from these schools??

 

[psycholytic]

I'm applying to CA prof schools...

Alliant, I applied for the Clin PsyD, not PhD. I think with Alliant it depends a lot on the campus you want to go to... for example, I happen to think their San Diego campus for the Clin PsyD is the best... and if you look on their website, you will see that for my program, SD has SO many more choices for emphases, etc. I like the small class sizes and such... I know a couple people who graduated from there years ago, when it was still CSPP, and I think they got PhDs... they are very successful now, have nothing but good things to say about the school, and love their work. They attended the SD campus.

Azusa, I looked into, but it follows quite a religious perspective, which is not me nor is it something I want to specifically integrate into my practice... sorry, not much help there.

For Argosy, I applied to their Clinical PsyD program at San Francisco and Orange County... a couple things about this school... one is that everyone I have come into contact with has been extremely nice and helpful. The admissions recruiters or coordinaters have called and emailed me several times to make sure I am doing ok with the application and have no questions. I really love the small class sizes here, and they only have class 2x per week (at least for the SF Clinical PsyD program), which is great if you hope to work and go to school. The only negative thing is that I have been on their email list for over a year, and I received countless emails encouraging me to apply immediately. Let me clarify. In December, they emailed me saying there was still time to apply for the Spring semester... which starts in January. Why do they still have spots open at this point?!?! I don't know much about their Counseling Psych program.

It's all what you want and what is best for you, and what you plan to do with the degree. Beware, a lot of people on this forum will tell you that you're wasting your time and money even thinking about degrees from these schools. Professional schools are not the right choice for everyone, but as long as you understand the pros (for me, PsyD programs in CA) and the cons (debt, debt, debt), you will be able to make the choice that's right for you. Once you do, don't let others talk you out of it! Hope this helped...

Did you apply this year? If so, have you heard anything from these schools??

Thanks for all the info

Yes, I have applied this year and have an interview coming up. Read it yesterday online. They will let me probably know Monday.

I had applied last year too , went to an interview but chickened out due to the tuiton cost.

I looked at their EPPP's passing rates and can tell you that L.A. and san Diego are okay in meeting preparation for the exam.

Good luck to you, let me know if you hear anything

 

[psycholytic]

One thing I'd definitely check is the APPIC Internship Placement % (for APA-Acreditted programs). There are ton of other factors, but i'd pretty much cross off any program that isn't at least at the national average of placement or close to it. If you end up at a place that places 50% of their ppl....who knows how long it will take you to place (it is just getting more and more competitive each year)

Best of luck.

-t

Good advise!

I will look it up.

Thanks

 

[psycholytic]

Good advise!

I will look it up.

On the other hand I am not overly concerned with that since I know how to work this one, due to prior experience.

Thanks for the info though. I had to do similar stuff many times

 

[ClinPsyD917]

Hey, good to know about the EPPPs.

I have an interview at Argosy SF so far... eeeeek. They are letting me kind of pick the date b/c I am from Santa Barbara, so it's quite a trek up to SF. I really like this, although I know it's unusual... but it is soooo helpful! Everywhere else I am waiting to hear from... I posted some info about the status of apps and interview times on the official interview thread if you want to check it out. Sorry, I don't want to type it all out again!

By the way, congrats on the interview!!! It's so exciting!!

 

[positivepsych]

I'm applying to CA prof schools...

I know a couple people who graduated from there years ago, when it was still CSPP, and I think they got PhDs... they are very successful now, have nothing but good things to say about the school, and love their work.

Some of those who graduated a while ago in the 80s/early 90s (when private practice was still lucrative), are still doing okay because they got to establish a practice when competition was low and reimbursements were still rolling in. Some can still do okay/well now since they're on insurance panels already (which is difficult to do nowadays since you need several years experience and most are already full), and have already built up a clientele/reputation.

I talked to a half-dozen grads from Alliant in San Diego and LA, who graduated RECENTLY and they are NOT doing so well. Most of them just cannot get more than 10 clients a week in private practice, and its difficult to get a salaried job since they're either filled with low-paid MSWs or psychologists that are better trained than them (one PsyD I talked to is doing a job that was originally just looking for an MSW, and had to convince them to hire her)

For Argosy ...The only negative thing is that I have been on their email list for over a year, and I received countless emails encouraging me to apply immediately. Let me clarify. In December, they emailed me saying there was still time to apply for the Spring semester... which starts in January. Why do they still have spots open at this point?!?!

Because its a BUSINESS, and not a university. They want to get AS MANY students as possible to pay thousands in tuition, they don't care what your job prospects are after you graduate (they already have your money), or about flooding the market with too much supply.

It's all what you want and what is best for you, and what you plan to do with the degree. Beware, a lot of people on this forum will tell you that you're wasting your time and money even thinking about degrees from these schools. Professional schools are not the right choice for everyone, but as long as you understand the pros (for me, PsyD programs in CA) and the cons (debt, debt, debt), you will be able to make the choice that's right for you. Once you do, don't let others talk you out of it!

Other people on the forum (including psychologists who have graduated) are critical of the programs for good reason, and probably because they have experience and know what they're talking about. I have no problem with the philosophy of a PsyD. I understand if you don't want to do research in a PhD and focus on clinical work instead.

The issue is that these programs are businesses that do not have your interest or the field's interest in mind, and most people are going to be in for a rude awakening when they realize what their debt-to-income ratio is like when they get out in the real world, in an already-flooded CA marketplace. You can try to ignore realities all you want, but people are taking their time to warn you for a reason.

Caveat Emptor.

 

[psycholytic]

I talked to a half-dozen grads from Alliant in San Diego and LA, who graduated RECENTLY and they are NOT doing so well. Most of them just cannot get more than 10 clients a week in private practice, and its difficult to get a salaried job since they're either filled with low-paid MSWs or psychologists that are better trained than them (one PsyD I talked to is doing a job that was originally just looking for an MSW, and had to convince them to hire her)

Response
I am just amazed about the immediate assumption that one is not trained as well as another student, if that person graduated from a professional school. Where do you get this from?
I talked to the director of the psychology division at Napa State Hospital and who graduated from Alliant L.A. with a PhD. He told me that he can not see a difference between students from Alliant and those from traditional programs when it comes to their work during the internships and beyond.

 

[psycholytic]

POSTED by POSITIVEPSYCH

I talked to a half-dozen grads from Alliant in San Diego and LA, who graduated RECENTLY and they are NOT doing so well. Most of them just cannot get more than 10 clients a week in private practice, and its difficult to get a salaried job since they're either filled with low-paid MSWs or psychologists that are better trained than them (one PsyD I talked to is doing a job that was originally just looking for an MSW, and had to convince them to hire her)

RESPONSE

I am just amazed about the immediate assumption that one is not trained as well as another student, if that person graduated from a professional school. Where do you get this from?
I talked to the director of the psychology division at Napa State Hospital and who graduated from Alliant L.A. with a PhD. He told me that he can not see a difference between students from Alliant and those from traditional programs when it comes to their work during the internships and beyond.

 

[positivepsych]

First of all, of course as an Alliant grad, he's not going to say that the training is inferior (since that would say that he himself was poorly trained).

It's not an assumption across the board. The training is probably objectively inferior for certain types of specialized positions just because of the types and quality of resources available. For instance, for those wanting to do behavioral health work, university-based programs are often closely linked with world-class medical schools and hospitals, and give their students opportunities to get this kind of exposure and training throughout their career, which would be harder to do at a PsyD program. It's not impossible (I think PsiChi is a good example of an exception, but it takes a unique and initiative-taking individual to do so).

Also, if you want to do compare quantitatively, good university-based programs have near 100% match rates for internship placement and passing the EPPP, go ask what it is for Alliant/Agrosy, and I guarantee its nowhere close to that. What's worse: go to PsychologyToday.com and look up the therapists in a CA city. You'll see that there are actually clinical psychologists who graduated from CSPP/Alliant/Agrosy or schools that are even more questionable, who are practicing under an MFT license. That's right, they couldn't pass the EPPP to be a psychologist (despite their PsyD/PhD), and so they need to use a loophole to practice as an MFT. If a school is graduating people that can't even pass the profession's licensing exam, that is a BIG RED FLAG.

Again, my problem is not as much with the training, as with the programs' debt load and utter disregard for the interest of their students and field, because they are businesses. If you search the forums, you'll see there are psychologists that graduated from these programs, that have actually quit and gone back to medical school for another 8 years of training because of these reasons.

There's no need for being defensive, there are people who wish they knew this info at the outset and that's why I share.

 

[psycholytic]

First of all, of course as an Alliant grad, he's not going to say that the training is inferior (since that would say that he himself was poorly trained).

It's not an assumption across the board. The training is probably objectively inferior for certain types of specialized positions just because of the types and quality of resources available. For instance, for those wanting to do behavioral health work, university-based programs are often closely linked with world-class medical schools and hospitals, and give their students opportunities to get this kind of exposure and training throughout their career, which would be harder to do at a PsyD program. It's not impossible (I think PsiChi is a good example of an exception, but it takes a unique and initiative-taking individual to do so).

Also, if you want to do compare quantitatively, good university-based programs have near 100% match rates for internship placement and passing the EPPP, go ask what it is for Alliant/Agrosy, and I guarantee its nowhere close to that. What's worse: go to PsychologyToday.com and look up the therapists in a CA city. You'll see that there are actually clinical psychologists who graduated from CSPP/Alliant/Agrosy or schools that are even more questionable, who are practicing under an MFT license. That's right, they couldn't pass the EPPP to be a psychologist (despite their PsyD/PhD), and so they need to use a loophole to practice as an MFT. If a school is graduating people that can't even pass the profession's licensing exam, that is a BIG RED FLAG.

Again, my problem is not as much with the training, as with the programs' debt load and utter disregard for the interest of their students and field, because they are businesses. If you search the forums, you'll see there are psychologists that graduated from these programs, that have actually quit and gone back to medical school for another 8 years of training because of these reasons.

There's no need for being defensive, there are people who wish they knew this info at the outset and that's why I share.

Defensive

why would I be defensive about stuff I already know?

I do think though, that it is more up to the student to work the best out of any program than to numbers or opinions.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I split out a thread talking about online classes, it can be found HERE.

-t

 

[ClinPsyD917]

Positivepsych:
I think it's good that you post the things you did on this thread, simply because I do believe some people are looking for an easy way out with the PsyD degree. I also really like that you were not derogatory, as MANY of those against PsyD professional schools are on this forum.

That being said, I am aware of everything you said and have made this decision nonetheless. Here is the Alliant San Diego Clinical PsyD program internship acceptance rates:
http://www.alliant.edu/wps/wcm/conn...syD Internship Data 2000-2006.pdf?MOD=AJPERES I admit that the % of APA is not like it should be, but if you notice, few students even bother applying. I guarantee you that those students who do apply for or obtain APA accredited internships are those who are the BEST in their class for this program. I plan to be the best in my class, and therefore I really believe that attaining an APA internship will not be a problem for me. If it does turn out to be a problem, then I obviously did not work as hard as I should have... it is clear from these numbers that students from Alliant who choose to apply can most certainly get in. I don't have the % for the board exam, but again, I plan to study my brains out on my own.

I appreciate the advice about these programs because they DO have downfalls, and I think some slackers give them a bad name by choosing them as an easy way to a doctorate. However, I still (and always will) think this is the best choice for me!

 

[psycholytic]

Positivepsych:
I think it's good that you post the things you did on this thread, simply because I do believe some people are looking for an easy way out with the PsyD degree. I also really like that you were not derogatory, as MANY of those against PsyD professional schools are on this forum.

That being said, I am aware of everything you said and have made this decision nonetheless. Here is the Alliant San Diego Clinical PsyD program internship acceptance rates:
http://www.alliant.edu/wps/wcm/conn...syD Internship Data 2000-2006.pdf?MOD=AJPERES I admit that the % of APA is not like it should be, but if you notice, few students even bother applying. I guarantee you that those students who do apply for or obtain APA accredited internships are those who are the BEST in their class for this program. I plan to be the best in my class, and therefore I really believe that attaining an APA internship will not be a problem for me. If it does turn out to be a problem, then I obviously did not work as hard as I should have... it is clear from these numbers that students from Alliant who choose to apply can most certainly get in. I don't have the % for the board exam, but again, I plan to study my brains out on my own.

I appreciate the advice about these programs because they DO have downfalls, and I think some slackers give them a bad name by choosing them as an easy way to a doctorate. However, I still (and always will) think this is the best choice for me!

Okay, great!

Did you get those numbers from Alliant directly or from APA? I would like to look L.A. up

 

[ClinPsyD917]

Directly from Alliant. Go here...
http://www.alliant.edu/wps/wcm/connect/website/Home/Academics+&+Degrees/Graduate+Programs/
And then find the degree and location you want... once you click on that there should be a big orange and yellow box to the right that says something about APA education and outcomes or something... click on interships... and there you go!! I'm pretty sure I've looked at something similar for Argosy, so lurk around their website a bit... I would, but I want to go to bed!

 

[psycholytic]

Directly from Alliant. Go here...
http://www.alliant.edu/wps/wcm/connect/website/Home/Academics+&+Degrees/Graduate+Programs/
And then find the degree and location you want... once you click on that there should be a big orange and yellow box to the right that says something about APA education and outcomes or something... click on interships... and there you go!! I'm pretty sure I've looked at something similar for Argosy, so lurk around their website a bit... I would, but I want to go to bed!

Thanks

 

[psycholytic]

I looked up Alliant's (L.A.-campus) matching rates for the last 2 years and they are a 100%, which is good enough for me

 

[Dr.JT]

I looked up Alliant's (L.A.-campus) matching rates for the last 2 years and they are a 100%, which is good enough for me

What! did you really look at the numbers. 100% for CAPIC internships. There match rate for APA and nonAPA acreddited APPIC internships is abysmal. The people applying for those programs are the ones you will be competing with for the decent jobs and those numbers tell you Alliant students are not competitive.

 

[psycholytic]

What! did you really look at the numbers. 100% for CAPIC internships. There match rate for APA and nonAPA acreddited APPIC internships is abysmal. The people applying for those programs are the ones you will be competing with for the decent jobs and those numbers tell you Alliant students are not competitive.

The exact numbers are : 2006-2007= 47% APA
= 100 CAPIC

 

[Dr.JT]

The exact numbers are : 2006-2007= 47% APA
= 100 CAPIC

Right; like I said abysmal. Only 15 of this large class (n = 68 for the Ph.D program) even bothered to apply through appic and 7 got apa accredited internships and 3 non apa accredited APPIC internships. Of the 53 who got CAPIC internships, only 24 got paid spots. Also, I suggest you look into CAPI internships a little more so you truly understand what they are about.

 

[Psyclops]

could you explain a little about CAPIC internships JT?

 

[Dr.JT]

The exact numbers are : 2006-2007= 47% APA
= 100 CAPIC

For the Psy.D program, the numbers don't even qualify for abysmal; they are horrific. 12 apply through APPIC, noAPA matches, 4 non-APA APPIC matches. 145 CAPIC internships only 32 are paid.

 

[Dr.JT]

could you explain a little about CAPIC internships JT?

The short of it is they exist because there are way too many professional school students in CA who would not be able to graduate since many of them have difficulty obtaining internships. So CAPIC allows them to get their internship requirement fulfilled. Many of the sites are not paid as you can see in the 2006-2007 internship results from Alliant's website.

 

[psycholytic]

The short of it is they exist because there are way too many professional school students in CA who would not be able to graduate since many of them have difficulty obtaining internships. So CAPIC allows them to get their internship requirement fulfilled. Many of the sites are not paid as you can see in the 2006-2007 internship results from Alliant's website.

CAPIC is a matching site for professional schools. What are you implying? Besides, I am not concerned about not getting an APA-matching site, since I know myself and how to work that one.

Please explain.

 

[Dr.JT]

CAPIC is a matching site for professional schools. What are you implying? Besides, I am not concerned about not getting an APA-matching site, since I know myself and how to work that one.

Please explain.

I am not implying anything. The fact is the quality internships around the country, Cali included, go through APPIC. So why does their exist a separate internship entity in Cali? What kind of quality are the training sites likely to have? Why cant they seem to pay the majority of students even a meager internship salary?

 

[psycholytic]

I am not implying anything. The fact is the quality internships around the country, Cali included, go through APPIC. So why does their exist a separate internship entity in Cali? What kind of quality are the training sites likely to have? Why cant they seem to pay the majority of students even a meager internship salary?

I think much of any stuff happening in CA , related to psychology training that could be different, is due to the state' s crappy regulation of the profession as a whole.

 

[50960]

Absolutely!!

 

[psycholytic]

First of all, of course as an Alliant grad, he's not going to say that the training is inferior (since that would say that he himself was poorly trained).


Response
I believe that holding a position like he does, and the way he interacted with me, does not point towards turf-protection. He could have easily and freely advised me (like other teachers did with schools they went to) not to go there, but rather apply to another school. Even if many do, not everybody tries to fool you, you know.

 

[psycholytic]

I appreciate the advice about these programs because they DO have downfalls, and I think some slackers give them a bad name by choosing them as an easy way to a doctorate. However, I still (and always will) think this is the best choice for me! [/QUOTE]




Response
That might be the case, but they are out faster than they can turn their heads around to see the exit door. Attending a professional school does not equal less interest, work, or rigor, even if some people on this forum want you make believe. Alliant in general (with some campus exeptions) established itself as the leading professional school, thus has a good reputation.
I know students from Alliant L.A., and trust me , its no less work than in any other institution.

Remarks from posters who can't let go on the professional school bashing will not be answered period!

 

[Dr.JT]

I appreciate the advice about these programs because they DO have downfalls, and I think some slackers give them a bad name by choosing them as an easy way to a doctorate. However, I still (and always will) think this is the best choice for me!

Response
Remarks from posters who can't let go on the professional school bashing will not be answered period![/QUOTE]

Interesting how a number of valid points were brought up here by people in the field yet you interpret this information as bashing.

 

[psycholytic]

Response
Remarks from posters who can't let go on the professional school bashing will not be answered period!

Interesting how a number of valid points were brought up here by people in the field yet you interpret this information as bashing.[/QUOTE]




Why would you feel called upon??

 

[ClinPsyD917]

Do you know what the class schedule is like at Alliant? Or about how many hours a week they spend in class? I know Argosy SF is only 2x per week, they cram it all together to allow you to work as well... But I don't know anything about Alliant's.

I've heard from 2 different people on the forum that Alliant is one of the better PsyD schools (at least of the professional ones), and I know it to produce successful Psychologists, so I'm really glad about this .

 

[Dr.JT]

Interesting how a number of valid points were brought up here by people in the field yet you interpret this information as bashing.

Why would you feel called upon??[/QUOTE]

Not because I was bashing professional schools, although I have certainly been accused of that here for bringing up valid points. Anyone who brings up legitimate concerns about these programs is accused of bashing them by those that have an investment in disregarding these concerns. It was the tone of your post that gave me the impetus.

 

[psycholytic]

The tone was indendet to be that way, because I am getting pretty tired of many wussies on this board (and I am not talking about you--at least not at this point), who won't let others have a good discussion; so, they should be able to take that tone in return.

It seems that there is a tremendous amount of latent hostility on almost every thread, no matter where you go.

I posted stuff with no other intention than having a quality discussion,--well enough some viper sneaks in (probably only waiting to spit venom) and starts ranting on about stuff that only makes me feel getting tired of continuing posting. I am not even talking about professional schools.By now I don't have a very high impression of people in our profession. Boy, if they all like many people on this forum, we will go nowhere as a whole.

I would really appreciate a discussion free of passive aggression, nastyness, and the intent to solely blather ones own opinion out, rather than trying to learn from this forum.

There are very few people on this board who follow a collegiate form of communication.

Typically, it seems to go such way as: Oh, yeah?, How dare you? Is this what a good clinician does?, etc.

Frankly, its childish, boring and so self-exposing that people who react like that should be embarrassed of themselves, and no; I do not mean you.

 

[ClinPsyD917]

Not because I was bashing professional schools, although I have certainly been accused of that here for bringing up valid points. Anyone who brings up legitimate concerns about these programs is accused of bashing them by those that have an investment in disregarding these concerns. It was the tone of your post that gave me the impetus.

Response
The tone was indendet to be that way, because I am getting pretty tired of many wussies on this board (and I am not talking about you--at least not at this point), who won't let others have a good discussion; so, they should be able to take that tone in return.

It seems that there is a tremendous amount of latent hostility on almost every thread, no matter where you go.

I posted stuff with no other intention than having a quality discussion,--well enough some viper sneaks in (probably only waiting to spit venom) and starts ranting on about stuff that only makes me feel getting tired of continuing posting. I am not even talking about professional schools.

By now I don't have a very high impression of people in our profession. Boy, if they all like many people on this forum, we will go nowhere as a whole.

I would really appreciate a discussion free of passive aggression, nastyness, and the intent to solely blather ones own opinion out, rather than trying to learn from this forum.

There are very view people on this board who follow a collegiate form of communication.

Typically, it seems to go such way as: Oh, yeah?, How dare you? Is this what a good clinician does?, etc.

Frankly, its childish, boring and so self-exposing that people who react like that should be embarrassed of themselves, and no; I do not mean you.[/quote]


Omg. I am so glad you wrote this. And I am soooo glad I am not the only one that thinks this!!! It can get soooo hostile sometimes and it really sucks.

However, this particular thread has not been too bad, compared to others... particularly the one about encouragement for the PsyD... I posted there hoping to encourage someone... ended up being attacked and had seriously EVERY statement I made be picked apart and criticized.

I appreciate the feedback and I know that some of these people really are trying to prevent the ignorant PsyD-chasers from making a mistake, but most of them (as I said, not this thread) seem to just want to hear themselves talk... only on an internet forum. I could say more, but I have no doubt that some of the aforementioned are reading this, and will once again attack me. It's pretty bad when you have to title a thread "civil" to get people not to attack you (see the forum: something about a civil discussion of +/- of online programs) and I haven't even read that to know if it's working.

But I sure am glad I'm not the only one feeling the hostility. And thanks to all who have been supportive or offered constructive, non-derogatory criticism .

Edit: I am SO new at this forum thing... sorry it looks weird.

 

[50960]

Welcome to psychology in the US psycholytic. If you want to have respectful interactions, get your doctorate, license and get to work in integrated care in a primary care clinic. Great work, great patients, no infighting....

 

[psycholytic]

Welcome to psychology in the US psycholytic. If you want to have respectful interactions, get your doctorate, license and get to work in integrated care in a primary care clinic. Great work, great patients, no infighting....

That is what I intent in part, the other part will be hopefully some community college teaching.

 

[psycholytic]

Response
The tone was indendet to be that way, because I am getting pretty tired of many wussies on this board (and I am not talking about you--at least not at this point), who won't let others have a good discussion; so, they should be able to take that tone in return.

It seems that there is a tremendous amount of latent hostility on almost every thread, no matter where you go.

I posted stuff with no other intention than having a quality discussion,--well enough some viper sneaks in (probably only waiting to spit venom) and starts ranting on about stuff that only makes me feel getting tired of continuing posting. I am not even talking about professional schools.

By now I don't have a very high impression of people in our profession. Boy, if they all like many people on this forum, we will go nowhere as a whole.

I would really appreciate a discussion free of passive aggression, nastyness, and the intent to solely blather ones own opinion out, rather than trying to learn from this forum.

There are very view people on this board who follow a collegiate form of communication.

Typically, it seems to go such way as: Oh, yeah?, How dare you? Is this what a good clinician does?, etc.

Frankly, its childish, boring and so self-exposing that people who react like that should be embarrassed of themselves, and no; I do not mean you.

Omg. I am so glad you wrote this. And I am soooo glad I am not the only one that thinks this!!! It can get soooo hostile sometimes and it really sucks.

However, this particular thread has not been too bad, compared to others... particularly the one about encouragement for the PsyD... I posted there hoping to encourage someone... ended up being attacked and had seriously EVERY statement I made be picked apart and criticized.

I appreciate the feedback and I know that some of these people really are trying to prevent the ignorant PsyD-chasers from making a mistake, but most of them (as I said, not this thread) seem to just want to hear themselves talk... only on an internet forum. I could say more, but I have no doubt that some of the aforementioned are reading this, and will once again attack me. It's pretty bad when you have to title a thread "civil" to get people not to attack you (see the forum: something about a civil discussion of +/- of online programs) and I haven't even read that to know if it's working.
But I sure am glad I'm not the only one feeling the hostility. And thanks to all who have been supportive or offered constructive, non-derogatory criticism .

Edit: I am SO new at this forum thing... sorry it looks weird.[/QUOTE]



Response
Absolutely, and absolutely not !

You are absolutely right and its absolutely not working at this point. It took about 2/3 of the responses that are in there right now to swing back.
You are right, this thread wasn't too bad, but at one point I have just had it with all the blabla.
But hey, I support you and some others here; for the rest.....

 

[psycholytic]

Welcome to psychology in the US psycholytic. If you want to have respectful interactions, get your doctorate, license and get to work in integrated care in a primary care clinic. Great work, great patients, no infighting....

Do you know what the perspectives are to obtain a position like this at this time?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I think it depends on the person. I think you'd need strong clinical training, a solid internship, probably a post-doc, and then good recommendations. Start networking now.

 

[Dr.JT]

After spending some time reviewing this thread, I have found no instances of bashing of professional schools and furthermore all posts were at least indirectly related to the original topics discussed. Frankly, psycholotic I don't really know what your issue is. I agree that there have been other threads that have certainly degenerated, but this one did not and was generally peaceful.

 

[Dr.JT]

Welcome to psychology in the US psycholytic. If you want to have respectful interactions, get your doctorate, license and get to work in integrated care in a primary care clinic. Great work, great patients, no infighting....

This has not been my professional experience at all. My experience has been that at any level in this field, if you know your stuff and back up what you say, you will do well. That is the the essence of scientific discussion. If your feathers get ruffled every time the position you hold is exposed for its weaknesses, you will be miserable.

 

[psycholytic]

Do you know what the class schedule is like at Alliant? Or about how many hours a week they spend in class? I know Argosy SF is only 2x per week, they cram it all together to allow you to work as well... But I don't know anything about Alliant's.

I've heard from 2 different people on the forum that Alliant is one of the better PsyD schools (at least of the professional ones), and I know it to produce successful Psychologists, so I'm really glad about this .

I believe it is also 2 days per week.

 

[psycholytic]

After spending some time reviewing this thread, I have found no instances of bashing of professional schools and furthermore all posts were at least indirectly related to the original topics discussed. Frankly, psycholotic I don't really know what your issue is. I agree that there have been other threads that have certainly degenerated, but this one did not and was generally peaceful.

And that is implied in the post too.


Response
The tone was indendet to be that way, because I am getting pretty tired of many wussies on this board (and I am not talking about you--at least not at this point), who won't let others have a good discussion; so, they should be able to take that tone in return.

It seems that there is a tremendous amount of latent hostility on almost every thread, no matter where you go.
I posted stuff with no other intention than having a quality discussion,--well enough some viper sneaks in (probably only waiting to spit venom) and starts ranting on about stuff that only makes me feel getting tired of continuing posting. I am not even talking about professional schools.
By now I don't have a very high impression of people in our profession. Boy, if they all like many people on this forum, we will go nowhere as a whole.

I would really appreciate a discussion free of passive aggression, nastyness, and the intent to solely blather ones own opinion out, rather than trying to learn from this forum.

There are very few people on this board who follow a collegiate form of communication.

Typically, it seems to go such way as: Oh, yeah?, How dare you? Is this what a good clinician does?, etc.

Frankly, its childish, boring and so self-exposing that people who react like that should be embarrassed of themselves, and no; I do not mean you.

 

[psycholytic]

That's because I wasn't in it There, now everyone feels disrupted.

LOL, why weren't you, by the way?

I do not understand why you are making this comment though. Do you believe you are disruptive?

 

[psycholytic]

I think it depends on the person. I think you'd need strong clinical training, a solid internship, probably a post-doc, and then good recommendations. Start networking now.

Okay, thanks

 

[Dr.JT]

That's because I wasn't in it There, now everyone feels disrupted.

I was waiting to see how long it would take you to get involved. I will always argue that you are by far the most misinterpreted person on this board.

 

[ClinPsyD917]

"Therapist4Chnge: I think it depends on the person. I think you'd need strong clinical training, a solid internship, probably a post-doc, and then good recommendations. Start networking now."



Can someone tell me a little bit more about post-docs? I've only known people to be involved with them with research. What opportunities are there for post-docs that are practice-based? Are they harder to obtain than internships? How well do they pay? And how prevalent are they (because I'm looking to stay in CA, and probably at that point to be in San Diego specifically)?

Also, during undergrad it was so important to be involved in volunteering, working, etc. outside of school, in order to look good and have the experience grad schools are looking for. Is it expected you will continue this type of thing during grad school, when you are much MUCH busier?? For example, in going to a professional school, I am seeing that you will already have to be EXTREMELY competitive to get a good internship (and post-doc probably, too). Would volunteer work or having a related job make you more competitive?

Thanks for any help. I want to be able to do what I want to with my degree and I know I'll need to be the best (and then still VERY competitive) to get this done.

 

[psycholytic]

Hi again ClinPsyD917

I just wanted to let you know that I will have my interview tomorrow morning (Wednesday 01-31-07). I wonder how I will make it through traffic at that time

Did you hear anything yet?