California professional schools

[ClinPsyD917]

Wow, good luck on that interview. How exciting!! I haven't heard anything from Alliant, I am getting frustrated. I called again today and they looked for my application (which is STILL not in the computer) and they found it. Then they said I was missing my letters of rec. I told them the letters were sent a long time ago and definitely should be there. They said they are sure I am right and I shouldn't worry. AHHHH. Please can they put it all in the computer so I can hear from my campus already?!?! I did hear from Phillips Graduate Institute (though I am not too interested in going there, its not APA accredited), and I have an interview there a week from Friday.

I am so glad you heard. Let me know how the interview goes! Make sure you leave extra early b/c LA traffic is HORRENDOUS. I'm not sure where you're from, but as someone who grew up in the LA area, leave yourself a TON of time for that morning traffic... the last thing you need to be stressing about before an interview is if you'll be late! Good luck again!

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[psycholytic]

Wow, good luck on that interview. How exciting!! I haven't heard anything from Alliant, I am getting frustrated. I called again today and they looked for my application (which is STILL not in the computer) and they found it. Then they said I was missing my letters of rec. I told them the letters were sent a long time ago and definitely should be there. They said they are sure I am right and I shouldn't worry. AHHHH. Please can they put it all in the computer so I can hear from my campus already?!?! I did hear from Phillips Graduate Institute (though I am not too interested in going there, its not APA accredited), and I have an interview there a week from Friday.

I am so glad you heard. Let me know how the interview goes! Make sure you leave extra early b/c LA traffic is HORRENDOUS. I'm not sure where you're from, but as someone who grew up in the LA area, leave yourself a TON of time for that morning traffic... the last thing you need to be stressing about before an interview is if you'll be late! Good luck again!

I am coming from Long Beach and have to go over "parking lots" 405 and 710 . It's just crazy to leave 2 hours before the interview to drive 24 miles. That's L.A.

I will let you know how it went. Did you actually apply to their PsyD or was it San Diego? I remember somehow you mentioned San Diego.

 

[WaitingKills]

I'm not going to say much here.

While I don't have anything against professional training (psyd), be careful about where you go.

I've also looked at the stats of this school, internship placements and EPPP scores, and they are ****. I would hate for you to get in, waste a hell of a lot of money, and have nothing to show for it after. Before you get defensive, you are going to do what you are going to do, and that is great. But you have a lot of people on this board warning you about this school (not professional programs in general), based on direct and credible information, actually hear it before you make such a commitment.

This link might help http://www.socialpsychology.org/clinrank1997.htm. It is a ranking of Clinical Ph.D programs from 2005 based on EPPP results. Scroll all the way down the page, and Alliant is the 4th from the bottom, from the vast majority of programs in Canada and the States (approx 180), while California school of prof psyc is 13th from the bottom. I would also like to refer to the fact that the programs whose student's did the worst in this liscencing exam were from PsyD programs.

Please don't jump down my throat like you did to Dr. JT, it's seriously not my life or my concern. I'm just giving you further information that you may not have.

Good luck with what you decide.

 

[psycholytic]

I'm not going to say much here.

While I don't have anything against professional training (psyd), be careful about where you go.

I've also looked at the stats of this school, internship placements and EPPP scores, and they are ****. I would hate for you to get in, waste a hell of a lot of money, and have nothing to show for it after.What, a name? Before you get defensive, you are going to do what you are going to do, and that is great. But you have a lot of people on this board warning you about this school (not professional programs in general), based on direct and credible information, actually hear it before you make such a commitment.

This link might help http://www.socialpsychology.org/clinrank1997.htm. It is a ranking of Clinical Ph.D programs from 2005 based on EPPP results. Scroll all the way down the page, and Alliant is the 4th from the bottom, from the vast majority of programs in Canada and the States (approx 180), while California school of prof psyc is 13th from the bottom. Great! Its ON the list! I would also like to refer to the fact that the programs whose student's did the worst in this liscencing exam were from PsyD programs.

Please don't jump down my throat like you did to Dr. JT, it's seriously not my life or my concern. I'm just giving you further information that you may not have.

Good luck with what you decide.

Don't worry, I have all the info I need. Researched programs probably longer and more inetense than anyone on this board due to the fact that I am not from this country originally.

First of all I am NOT going for the PsyD as you can see when you read my post on the invite thread, and second of all you are contageously obsessed with rankings. Means squad in the real world! What "not professional programs in general " do you mean? The one professional program, if you chose one, that you can attend IS Alliant, sometimes Argosy (depending on location) Too many posts of the same kind seem to infect everybody. --sigh........

Also Alliant and Cali School of Prof Psych are one and the same instititution.

And--thanks for the truly traditional link from 1997 that I have seen 2 years ago and decided to ignore due to its up-to-date ranking.

No bad blood though and thanks for the good luck.

 

[Nimadea]

Argosy is a for-profit institution. Just something to think about.

 

[psycholytic]

Argosy is a for-profit institution. Just something to think about.

Argosy?

Who are you addressing?

 

[psycholytic]

Alliant is also for-profit. . .

http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/c...f=782&start=782&first_letter=A&class_start=51

http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/classifications/sub.asp?key=748&subkey=13395&start=782

But , oh well, that wasn't the statement anyway!

 

[50960]

Pls remember tuition reimbursement is a dinosaur of the philosophy of higher education realm; medical school is a professional school......
I do not see psych as a graduate degree anymore, but as a health profession, and as such we need to grow up.

 

[psycholytic]

Pls remember tuition reimbursement is a dinosaur of the philosophy of higher education realm; medical school is a professional school......
I do not see psych as a graduate degree anymore, but as a health profession, and as such we need to grow up.

I agree. If only as many students as slots exist, would go into psychology, it would be a completely dying field. On the other hand , I think that professional schools often admit too many students each year, and yes, sometimes also students with the wrong convictions.

I think , we might hit a point soon (hopefully), where the field (teachers, prof's, students, and APA) have to come up with new strategies to regroup/ reorganize the field and its education. A good idea might be to reduce the dinosaur /ivory tower snobbery and rediculous admissions requirements (all of which is by the way very unique to psych) and improve some of the admissions and educational standards of the professional schools. I can hear the Negativists say; this will lower the standards of the field overall. I don't think so, if anything, I believe it would make the field less bipolar, lol.

 

[psycholytic]

Sorta, MD/Phds get full remissions too. It is a reality of research/based education. While med school can support the expense of training, psychology is not worth it.



Psychology is a ridiculously easy undergraduate major; we need the high admission standards to weed out the . . .academically disinclined and unable. Med school and laws school admissions are competitive; pretty much on par with trad. clinical psych and way more difficult than professional school admissionsl There is no ivory tower snobbery. Now, there is my version of "snobbery" I suppose in that in my opinion most professional school attendees should not be in clinical psychology. They're riding generally inflated GPAs (because of the ease of undergrad psych) and lack the raw ability/educational accomplishment of other doctorate level professional fields (e.g., law and medicine).

Certainly not true for me. I can't speak for others.

 

[50960]

MD/PhD's only get remission for the PhD aspect, which we all know is not a real PhD per se. MD/DO/NP/PA school is all fee-for-service training, and NOT a freebe degree for special people, usually based upon race, SES, and other factors, that the tax payers have to cover. I was tired of paying 9% sales tax and outrageous property taxes for people like you getting a short cut. You say professional schools are a short cut, but which is worse...paid for training or training on another's bill by outdated, union based, can't practice, no license, academics who for the most part have only published on the shoulders of their postdocs................

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Psychology is a ridiculously easy undergraduate major; we need the high admission standards to weed out the . . .academically disinclined and unable. Med school and law school admissions are competitive; pretty much on par with trad. clinical psych and way more difficult than professional school admissionsl There is no ivory tower snobbery. Now, there is my version of "snobbery" I suppose in that in my opinion most professional school attendees should not be in clinical psychology. They're riding generally inflated GPAs (because of the ease of undergrad psych) and lack the raw ability/educational accomplishment of other doctorate level professional fields (e.g., law and medicine).

Your pretty strong bias aside...i don't completely disagree, I'd just like to tighten things up a bit. Professional schools have a place along with traditional programs, both of which can and do produce quality clinicians. My issue is with the bottom 10-15% of graduates (across the board). If there was a way to cut them out, it would solidify things. I know graduates from all over the place, and i'm not worried about the ones I meet at conferences/presentations/seminars....i'm worried about the ones who skim on by and don't keep up with the research, avoid the extra stuff that separates good clinicians from the rest.

If they had something like the STEP scores...i think that would really help. Have internship also rely on scoring. A small group would never make it because of bad scoring, but that would raise the overall quality, no? The licensure exam is too late in the game, I think there needs to be something standardized pre-internship.

-t

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

For what it's worth, I agree that the rate of property taxes, sales taxes and the progressive income tax system are all incredibly out of whack and are essentially war on the middle class. The modern day liberal sucks.

This is something that you and I can fully agree on. Now if we could only gut a bunch of the bloated social programs...we might be able to balance the budget again...without shellacking the middle class.

-t

 

[psycholytic]

Sorta, MD/Phds get full remissions too. It is a reality of research/based education. While med school can support the expense of training, psychology is not worth it.




Response
It's worth almost anything to me. This makes the whole topic even sadder, but maybe it will make me a much better clinician , exactely for that very reason;--I have to "work" for it!



I love the field and don't want to do anything else. If , due to location constraints and test troubles, my ability to become what I know is best for me and that I am good at, would be jeopardized, I don't even let a large loan amount get in my way. I am scared about the loans I will accumulate, and would be a liar to not acknowledge that, yet, I came up with a plan and still pursued my calling. I will be a good clinician, no matter what anyone thinks, and my clients will be thankful. I am a person who loves research and I always investigate anything , even outyside psychology, that I do not understand, in order to grasp the issue. I will be up-to-date on my stuff and really think, I don't want to defend this position any longer. Some people just understand what I am talking about and others don't . I would like to leave it at that ,since I can also sit with ambiguity

 

[Nimadea]

Of the following programs, please give some input what you chose, or would choose if you know them.

Alliant (CSPP), PhD-clinical
Azusa , PsyD-clinical
Argosy , PsyD-counseling


Thanks

I was just replying to your original post, about wanting more info on the schools.

 

[psycholytic]

I was just replying to your original post, about wanting more info on the schools.

Maybe I am slow, but I don't understand, lol

Please explain

 

[psycholytic]

Sorta, MD/Phds get full remissions too. It is a reality of research/based education. While med school can support the expense of training, psychology is not worth it.




Response
It's worth almost anything to me. This makes the whole topic even sadder, but maybe it will make me a much better clinician , exactely for that very reason;--I have to "work" for it!



I love the field and don't want to do anything else. If , due to location constraints and test troubles, my ability to become what I know is best for me and that I am good at, would be jeopardized, I don't even let a large loan amount get in my way. I am scared about the loans I will accumulate, and would be a liar to not acknowledge that, yet, I came up with a plan and still pursued my calling. I will be a good clinician, no matter what anyone thinks, and my clients will be thankful. I am a person who loves research and I always investigate anything , even outyside psychology, that I do not understand, in order to grasp the issue. I will be up-to-date on my stuff and really think, I don't want to defend this position any longer. Some people just understand what I am talking about and others don't . I would like to leave it at that ,since I can also sit with ambiguity

Jon, I start to believe that you discuss issues here, not because you really care, but because you enjoy the argumentation.

How else could you explain the contradiction between your fiery discussion style (sometimes) and seeing psychology of being unworthy the struggle or effort to go the extra mile in order to work in the field.

Man, this is truly depressing to me.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The time 'off' from my career is what cost me the most $. It is scary when you think about loss of potential income (if you already have a career)....but if it is something that you really want to do, you'll find a way to make it work. I figured I was young enough that even though I'd take a hit financially from the time off, I could still have a nice lifestyle (with the understanding i'll be doing a good portion of non-clinical work to subsidize my clinical time)

-t

 

[Lunabin]

This link might help http://www.socialpsychology.org/clinrank1997.htm. It is a ranking of Clinical Ph.D programs from 2005 based on EPPP results. Scroll all the way down the page, and Alliant is the 4th from the bottom, from the vast majority of programs in Canada and the States (approx 180), while California school of prof psyc is 13th from the bottom. I would also like to refer to the fact that the programs whose student's did the worst in this liscencing exam were from PsyD programs.

.

I'm soon graduating from CSPP San Fran, and for any prospective student to look at this site, needs to realize that this school is ranked #139 NOT #167, and is in the mix with fairly prominent universities (ie - Penn State, Boston Univ., etc). But, it is worth noting that different CSPP campuses rank very differently.

The decision to go to a professional school should be yours... in my experience, my school had an easy entry criteria, and let in LOTS of students. But, graduating from this school is not easy, and you might want to look at the retention rates of each class. My Ph.D. program started with nearly 30 students, and now 5 years later, I think we lost half of them!

To address previous comments about where professional students go on internship... Northern California has VERY few APA sites, and most of my colleagues didn't want to relocate, and therefore did not even apply for APPIC. I am currently at an APA site in NY, and felt I was a very competitive applicant during the interviews, especially because I had more clinical experience than most "traditional" universities (though lack research experience).

I agree that some professional schools are like "mills" producing psychologists, but they can (and CSPP does in my opinion) produce high quality psychologists! I also have a lot of skepticism about many professional programs, but if you do your homework, you'll be sure to make the right decision.

 

[psycholytic]

I'm soon graduating from CSPP San Fran, and for any prospective student to look at this site, needs to realize that this school is ranked #139 NOT #167, and is in the mix with fairly prominent universities (ie - Penn State, Boston Univ., etc). But, it is worth noting that different CSPP campuses rank very differently.

The decision to go to a professional school should be yours... in my experience, my school had an easy entry criteria, and let in LOTS of students. But, graduating from this school is not easy, and you might want to look at the retention rates of each class. My Ph.D. program started with nearly 30 students, and now 5 years later, I think we lost half of them!

To address previous comments about where professional students go on internship... Northern California has VERY few APA sites, and most of my colleagues didn't want to relocate, and therefore did not even apply for APPIC. I am currently at an APA site in NY, and felt I was a very competitive applicant during the interviews, especially because I had more clinical experience than most "traditional" universities (though lack research experience).

I agree that some professional schools are like "mills" producing psychologists, but they can (and CSPP does in my opinion) produce high quality psychologists! I also have a lot of skepticism about many professional programs, but if you do your homework, you'll be sure to make the right decision.

Thanks for pointing that out. I agree with everything you mentioned a 100%.

 

[psycholytic]

The time 'off' from my career is what cost me the most $. It is scary when you think about loss of potential income (if you already have a career)....but if it is something that you really want to do, you'll find a way to make it work. I figured I was young enough that even though I'd take a hit financially from the time off, I could still have a nice lifestyle (with the understanding i'll be doing a good portion of non-clinical work to subsidize my clinical time)

-t

Hi

What would you have done in your midlife? Same or not? It was an issue for me, but I decided to still go for it, since it is my desire.

I have much additional work experience , also in hospital settings, thus think that this might enhance later applications. What do you think?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Hi

What would you have done in your midlife? Same or not? It was an issue for me, but I decided to still go for it, since it is my desire.

I have much additional work experience , also in hospital settings, thus think that this might enhance later applications. What do you think?

I'm not at mid-life yet, but I would have gone for my MBA/JD....based mainly on the fact I hit a ceiling, and to move up further required an advanced degree. I did the dot com thing for awhile (*BURST*), and gained enough specialized experience to be in demand. My quality of life was crap (70-90+ hrs/wk), but it was hard to walk away from some really big opportunities. I ended up cashing in on a restructuring, and I jumped ship. I took the better part of a year off to travel and figure out what I really wanted to do....that ended up being clinical.

In retrospect, I wish I did it a little sooner, but then I wouldn't have gained all of the experience that I have now. I'm going to integrate my clinical work with my biz experience to build my new career. I think it will be a pretty rewarding experience. I can always fall back onto one side or the other...but for now, I'd like to do do both.

I think having experience in different areas can really help you. I learned a lot about my self (and the world) from my previous jobs. It really depends what you choose to do with your experiences, but they can be an asset in the right settings.

-t

 

[psycholytic]

I think having experience in different areas can really help you. I learned a lot about my self (and the world) from my previous jobs. It really depends what you choose to do with your experiences, but they can be an asset in the right settings.

-t[/QUOTE]



I hope my hospital experience (skills training to physicians and nursing staff on acute dialysis intensive care and patient psychological issues during the process) will support my applications and enhance my work quality, when I try to get into hospital settings at first.

Thanks for your explanation