CAlifornia programs

[whournameiz]

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Is anyone here a resident in a path program in California?

If so can you comment on how I can get residency back in California! Is it more competitive that the primary care fields? Thanx

 

[deleted113029]

it's more difficult to get into Stanford, UCSF, and maybe UCLA. other Cali schools aren't nearly as selective.

if you want to get into stanford, i highly suggest you do an away rotation there. this is just what i've heard.

good luck.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

Is it more competitive that the primary care fields? Thanx

Why does it matter? It makes it sound like you aren't all that interested in path and just looking for a way to get back to California.

 

[SLUsagar]

it's more difficult to get into Stanford, UCSF, and maybe UCLA. other Cali schools aren't nearly as selective.

if you want to get into stanford, i highly suggest you do an away rotation there. this is just what i've heard.

good luck.

RE: Stanford, there's no "mandatory" req. to do rotations here in order to be accepted as is often rumored, i certainly didn't. People that rotated here did seem to enjoy their time and learned a thing or two about path. But i'd recommend doing away rotations just about anywhere you can for the experience, albeit USCF, stanford, UCLA, etc.

 

[l&usibari]

I hear people frequently recommend away rotations in order to increase one's chance of getting accepted at a particular program. My opinion, based on the little experience I have with this topic, is that an away rotation almost guarantees an interview but does little to increase your chance of acceptance. In fact, it can DECREASE your chance due to the possibility of you inadvertently offending someone during your rotation, or due to you having a difficult personality. If you look great on paper but are blah in person, I don't think I would recommend rotating.

 

[mlw03]

since this thread is supposed to be about cali programs, anyone have comments about UC-Davis and/or living in Sacramento?

 

[yaah]

I hear people frequently recommend away rotations in order to increase one's chance of getting accepted at a particular program. My opinion, based on the little experience I have with this topic, is that an away rotation almost guarantees an interview but does little to increase your chance of acceptance. In fact, it can DECREASE your chance due to the possibility of you inadvertently offending someone during your rotation, or due to you having a difficult personality. If you look great on paper but are blah in person, I don't think I would recommend rotating.

I disagree with that - if you play your cards right you will have an attending or two in your corner, which may or may not mean much, but is far more likely to help. I highly doubt it would ever hurt your chances, unless you're a total pill like I said. It also demonstrates your interest to them, which means you are likelier to rank them higher.

 

[miko2005]

I hear people frequently recommend away rotations in order to increase one's chance of getting accepted at a particular program. My opinion, based on the little experience I have with this topic, is that an away rotation almost guarantees an interview but does little to increase your chance of acceptance. In fact, it can DECREASE your chance due to the possibility of you inadvertently offending someone during your rotation, or due to you having a difficult personality. If you look great on paper but are blah in person, I don't think I would recommend rotating.

I disagree with this comment. Even if you are "blah" but are hard working and interested in pathology, you can only increase your chances of matching in a program. It also gives you a chance to realistically evaluate the program. I rotated at a few places and realized out of those few programs, I really only loved one above others (and a year later I still feel the same way).

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I agree with Miko and Yaah. I spent a year at the program I matched to and I think that I "wowed" them with my work ethic. Come time for the selection committee to sit down and discuss applicants, I'm sure that it helped that I impressed the hell out of the PD, a couple of the senior faculty, as well as the residents/fellows last year-- evidenced by a couple of strongly worded phone calls that I received while getting my ROL together. It didn't hurt that I look good on paper also. 😉 But yeah, if you're a tool then don't do any aways.

 

[mrp]

I hate to be a band wagon jumper, but I also have to agree that doing a rotation at a program can significantly help your chances of matching there. It's very hard for an interviewer to determine if you are a jerk and/or crazy in a 20 minutes interview.

However, over a month long rotation it's a lot easier to see the underlying pathology of someone's personality.

Of course, if you ARE a jerk and/or crazy, don't do an away rotation.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

since this thread is supposed to be about cali programs, anyone have comments about UC-Davis and/or living in Sacramento?

Never lived in Sacramento. Had some friends that lived in Davis, which is nearby, and they enjoyed it there. Then again they liked it because it was 2 hours from North Lake Tahoe and some of the best snowboarding in the country (maybe aside from Colorado). My impression of it as I drove through on the way from Reno to San Francisco a few times (read: like 3 dozen) and stayed there overnight for a concert once, was this:

1. Sprawl (not as bad as LA or Vegas, though).
2. Hot.
3. Traffic (its a given because its California, I remember sitting in traffic on I-80 in Sacramento for extended periods during many, if not most of my trips).


The only problem with someplace like Sacramento is that you never really escape the high cost of living while staying someplace in the middle of farm country (ie a house will still run you $400K+). It seems to me like Davis would be a nice place to live because of all the stuff going on around UC Davis, but then you gotta drive 30 minutes in to Sacramento qday, which would suck, since everyone and their grandmother is commuting to work. Its only an hour or hour and a half from San Francisco, so if you want big city things to do there's always the weekend. Anyway, I don't know much about actually living in Sacramento so I'll defer to a native. Pure speculation, but I didn't hear great things about the program from other candidates when I was interviewing, but then again I didn't visit for myself.

 

[drdvs]

Never lived in Sacramento. Had some friends that lived in Davis, which is nearby, and they enjoyed it there. Then again they liked it because it was 2 hours from North Lake Tahoe and some of the best snowboarding in the country (maybe aside from Colorado). My impression of it as I drove through on the way from Reno to San Francisco a few times (read: like 3 dozen) and stayed there overnight for a concert once, was this:

1. Sprawl (not as bad as LA or Vegas, though).
2. Hot.
3. Traffic (its a given because its California, I remember sitting in traffic on I-80 in Sacramento for extended periods during many, if not most of my trips).

I've lived in Davis and Sacramento, and the above are ALL TRUE and not going to change. Having said that, the program is not at all bad. They get a ton of bread-n-butter stuff; breast, gyn (B9 and onc), GI, etc as well as a good bit of soft tissue. The attendings are very competent and personable. They (used to, at least) have daily didactics of both lecture and scope varieties, lunchtime tumor boards, and are relatively short on administrative/systems BS. The coordinator is VERY flakey, which I think turns a lot of applicants off from the start (understandably). However, the PD is a gem and the working/learning conditions are tough to beat (new buildings, personal cubicles...). Oh, and 24 days of vacation per year!

They are not exactly an academic powerhouse, but they do have a big neuroscience niche, a new genomics complex, and one of the only centers for comparative pathology with their top-rated vet school if one is research-minded.

 

[LADoc00]

Ive spent extensive time at Davis and in Sac as well. Also spent alot of time in LA, SF and SD. I would trade all those places for Davis. There is no other place that encompasses the single life, family life and academics in one location like Davis (In fact I would trade any place Ive lived anywhere). TONS of stuff for little kiddies to do for family types, tons of single women (Davis is 56+% female) with a wide range of interests and pretty much every research area you can imagine(and no one is that great of a researcher so almost anyone can "stand out"). If I could transplant my business to Davis, I would, in a heartbeat.

I have clued a few SF and LA player-types to the Shangra-La dating scene that is Davis and no one has ever come back after a weekend and told me I was wrong.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

Ive spent extensive time at Davis and in Sac as well. Also spent alot of time in LA, SF and SD. I would trade all those places for Davis. There is no other place that encompasses the single life, family life and academics in one location like Davis (In fact I would trade any place Ive lived anywhere). TONS of stuff for little kiddies to do for family types, tons of single women (Davis is 56+% female) with a wide range of interests and pretty much every research area you can imagine(and no one is that great of a researcher so almost anyone can "stand out"). If I could transplant my business to Davis, I would, in a heartbeat.

I have clued a few SF and LA player-types to the Shangra-La dating scene that is Davis and no one has ever come back after a weekend and told me I was wrong.

Yeah, but that's Davis. I think the medical center is in Sacramento, no? Not to say that it isn't possible to commute, but why in God's name would you want to given the unpredictability of California traffic flow?

 

[LADoc00]

Yeah, but that's Davis. I think the medical center is in Sacramento, no? Not to say that it isn't possible to commute, but why in God's name would you want to given the unpredictability of California traffic flow?

20 min commute. The med center is in downtown Sac, near midtown (which is an awesome neighborhood for Sac) and Davis is just beyond West Sac. Maybe traffic pushes it occasionally to 25 min dunno. I did a rotation at UCD loooongg time ago (never trained there) and the commute was easy. At that time the residency program was a cakewalk. Im talking 8-4 or 5pm max. Very lifestyle friendly. I didnt go there because of ego..but I really would consider it if I had to go back in time. If you are into research, it can be very daunting stepping into the super high caliber academic centers where each mega lab has 30 post docs. UCD the labs are small, cozy, maybe with 2-3 post docs and a grad student.

 

[mlw03]

thanks for all the UC-Davis comments. sounds like the overall impression is a positive one. it gives me something else to think about.

 

[AnnaLee]

I thought I would throw in my 2 cents since I did med school at Davis and am now in path at Stanford.

I really liked Sacramento for a few reasons: affordable place to live, so tons of young single people and young families as opposed to the bay area, and proximity to Tahoe, Napa and SF. Davis is a little more small townish, but has all the undergrads keeping up the nightlife, etc.

I think the program has a lot of positives. The faculty are great, very bright and good teachers. The material is outstanding in terms of variety of bread and butter mixed with the exotic, given that UCDMC is both a county hospital and tertiary care center (referral center for a HUGE geographical area that is growing rapidly).

The one thing about the program is that it is VERY flexible. That can be good and bad depending on who you are. If you are self-disciplined, you can be very successful at Davis.

Given those things, I am suprized Davis does not have a very good reputation, and I'm not sure why that is. Several years ago there were several faculty that were very unhappy there and left for other places. I can't comment any more on that, as it was before my time there.

All that being said, I think the best way to decide between programs is to do an away rotation. I think all the previous posters have made excellent points. My take on it is that programs are trying to find residents that are "good fits" for their program. Your personality may fit like a glove one place and not at another, no matter how "cool" you are or charming or boring or whatever. Anyway, just my ramling, take what you will...

 

[SLUsagar]

Fitting in, both from the applicant's and the program's perspective, is key in my opinion, as emphasized above. I've heard a myraid of reasons why you shouldn't do an away rotation...ranging from you shouldn't do an away as your 1st couple of path rotations b/c you're pretty clueless to begin with being, but the program may not realize that and judge you accordingly to you may interact with a ton of faculty, but there's a chance that interactions with key faculty may be limited, and who knows, maybe you look like a ******* just once but it's during those precious moments...

Although I acknowledge this line of thinking (and think you shouldn't go through life with such a fretful attitude), I think it's more important to realize the point: rotating gives you knowledge and experience you'd otherwise not get. Sure you have the opps to "impress the hell out of the PD," and frankly, it might not "hurt that [you] look good on paper." Without sounding too overlying academic though, let's not overlook the main point of learning/experience.

 

[LADoc00]

I thought I would throw in my 2 cents since I did med school at Davis and am now in path at Stanford.

I really liked Sacramento for a few reasons: affordable place to live, so tons of young single people and young families as opposed to the bay area, and proximity to Tahoe, Napa and SF. Davis is a little more small townish, but has all the undergrads keeping up the nightlife, etc.

I think the program has a lot of positives. The faculty are great, very bright and good teachers. The material is outstanding in terms of variety of bread and butter mixed with the exotic, given that UCDMC is both a county hospital and tertiary care center (referral center for a HUGE geographical area that is growing rapidly).

The one thing about the program is that it is VERY flexible. That can be good and bad depending on who you are. If you are self-disciplined, you can be very successful at Davis.

Given those things, I am suprized Davis does not have a very good reputation, and I'm not sure why that is. Several years ago there were several faculty that were very unhappy there and left for other places. I can't comment any more on that, as it was before my time there.

As to why Davis has the rep it has, it is a long story. There was a time when a very slick MDPhD from UCSF was at the helm, he left for research. Davis has always had a real split campus with half the education in Davis itself, the cllinical part in Sac. From my understanding (and I have relatives who are faculty), the entire med school is being moved to Sac. Bad bad idea if you ask me from a research standpoint but if you are research type med student you are probably setting your sites on Stanford, WashU etc.

All that being said, I think the best way to decide between programs is to do an away rotation. I think all the previous posters have made excellent points. My take on it is that programs are trying to find residents that are "good fits" for their program. Your personality may fit like a glove one place and not at another, no matter how "cool" you are or charming or boring or whatever. Anyway, just my ramling, take what you will...

I would disagree. Davis has alot of strengths, but faculty isnt one of them. They are very ho-hum and the chairman is absentee. Im not bagging on them, they are competent pathologists but they arent Wick/Mills/Epstein level and never will be. Speaking merely to lifestyle, I would rank Davis no.1 of all the places Ive visited.

I dont know how it is now, BUT when I was there (and I know the program has had alot of faculty turnover) they spent alot of time building a strong foundation in basic histology. Almost no other program does that to my knowledge and it is invaluable. Stanford, UCSF, UCLA and BWH expect you have totally mastered all histology before day 1, which is a very deluded assumption. From the teaching standpoint, Davis is actually ahead of the curve.

 

[JB101]

I interviewed at Davis this year and I was surprised by how much I liked it.
The residents were really great, the new hospital & med school are very impressive, and as mentioned earlier, the vacation time and cubicle situation is pretty dang nice. That being said, there were a few things that made me a bit nervous/apprehensive....

1) After asking where else I interviewed, two of the faculty members rambled on and on about how great the other programs were. Then and one even talked about how he had recently interviewed at another program for a job and how bummed he was that he didn't get it. Made me think that some of the faculty were looking to leave.

2) Most of the recent residents stayed at Davis for their fellowships or they didn't do them at all. The PD could only tell me of 1 or 2 residents in the past few years that had gone to another program for a fellowship. My current plan (and I know that this may change in the future) is to go somewhere different for a fellowship to make more contacts, etc. Furthermore, if I went to a "smaller" or less well known program like UCD, then I really would want to go to a "bigger name" program for my fellowship. I kept wondering why none of the residents wanted to go to Stanford or UCSF (both within 2 hours of Sac, which would make an easy move); were the residents not competitive enough, or were they just so happy where they were that they didn't want to leave, or is there a pervasive level of complacency in the program???? Unfortunately no one could answer that for me....

3) I didn't get contacted for an interview until super, super late, and it frankly irritated me. By that time I had already interviewed at all the "big name" programs, and it did rub my ego the wrong way. Someone mentioned how the coordinator is a bit flaky, and based on the scheduling of my interview day and then the planning of it (interviewers were super late, etc), I would have to agree with that observation.

4) The work schedule is super light....someone even mentioned no weekends (???), and everyone guaranteed that I'd be working 8-5pm. Quite frankly that initially sounds great, but then I started to worry that such a light schedule might not prepare me for a fellowship at another program, let alone the real world.

5) I was confused about the frozen sectioning business there....I was under the impression that PAs did it all....again nervous that I wouldn't be prepared for the real world.

However, all of that being said, I still ranked Davis in my top four, above UCLA, USC, UCSD and UCI. Why? Because I felt a positive vibe there, and the residents were really nice and very, very happy. Overall I knew that I could have a good life with good training there. The med center is definitely a referral center, and I knew I would see great specimens. I rationalized that it was OK if some faculty members were looking to move on; they were pretty young, and maybe they wanted more experience/diversity on their CVs. I also figured that just because residents weren't going elsewhere for fellowships didn't mean anything, and I promised myself that if I really wanted to go somewhere else for more training, then I absolutely would. And as far as frozens, I would make sure that I got great training from the PAs....

So what happened? I matched at my #1, which wasn't Davis. I'll be going to a pretty intense program and I'm already feeling nervous...regardless, if you are interested in CA programs, I definitely recommend interviewing there. It does have a lot to offer, and based on what I saw, you'd probably be very happy there.

 

[l&usibari]

Thanks for the replies about doing away rotations. I acknowledge that I do have a "fretful attitude" and appreciate people giving me another perspective. One person pointed out that during an away rotation you can get one or two attendings on your side who really pull for you, and I have witnessed this first hand. Someone with what might be called a "difficult personality" rotated at our program, and almost all the residents really disliked her and gave her bad evals, but one attending on the committee who chooses residents really really liked her and pushed hard for her, and she ended up high on our rank list.

I guess my fretful attitude comes from my fear of making a bad impression at my own away rotations, which I anticipate doing prior to fellowship. I wouldn't call my personality "difficult", but I admit that it's difficult to get to know me in the beginning as I can be pretty reserved around people I don't know very well.

Good to hear various viewpoints.

 

[mlw03]

Someone with what might be called a "difficult personality" rotated at our program, and almost all the residents really disliked her and gave her bad evals, but one attending on the committee who chooses residents really really liked her and pushed hard for her, and she ended up high on our rank list.

not sure if this is a good thing. sure, it's good for the applicant, but because she hit it off with one attending, the other residents (who she'll work way more than the attending) who don't like her may now have to work with her. but your comments certainly point out the potential upside and potential downside of an away rotation. certainly things i've thought about - and if i had infinite time, money, and resource i'd do about 10 away rotations to really evaluate those 10 programs i'm most interested in. but in the absence of a clear favorite, in my opinion, an away rotation is too much of a gamble. with a clear favorite and you're not a putz, then yep - great idea, especially at competitive programs that get a lot of applicants.

 

[clancy81]

Can anyone comment on their impressions of the UCI program? I'd like to learn more about the program and did a search that did not come up with much in the way of old threads. Thanks.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I think it's more important to realize the point: rotating gives you knowledge and experience you'd otherwise not get. Sure you have the opps to "impress the hell out of the PD," and frankly, it might not "hurt that [you] look good on paper." Without sounding too overlying academic though, let's not overlook the main point of learning/experience.

Learning and experience during a Path rotation should be stressed, I agree, but how much can you actually learn in 4 weeks? I got a ton of stuff out of my away rotations last year. Know why? I had a foundation in surg path already. I felt completely lost during my first 4 weeks on surgicals. Aside from making it feel like you never really learned histo, I'm not sure how much path knowledge (specifically morphology) you can get out of a 4th year med student rotation if you haven't already had a significant amount of experience. Not to say its meaningless, but I think its value is being overstated. You should see the basics: how to ink a tumor resection, what a lymph node looks like, how to submit a section, how to cut a frozen, etc.

Now, if by knowledge you mean: an overall idea of workflow in the department, a general idea of some limitations in path (ie frozen sections, ipox, etc), and your ability to recognize a good/malignant environment, well then I'd agree with you. I think its too ideallistic to expect much else other than to be interested and curious about what you are seeing. In the end, I think its probably most important to check out the program, show people that you are interested in path, and try to learn something, even if its how to gross a placenta or an appendix.

PS- My College Hoops 2K7 season is moving along wonderfully. 8-0 right now. I signed 3 top recruits during the first signing period and I'm looking to steamroll through conference play. 👍

 

[deleted113029]

I dont know how it is now, BUT when I was there (and I know the program has had alot of faculty turnover) they spent alot of time building a strong foundation in basic histology. Almost no other program does that to my knowledge and it is invaluable. Stanford, UCSF, UCLA and BWH expect you have totally mastered all histology before day 1, which is a very deluded assumption. From the teaching standpoint, Davis is actually ahead of the curve.

How the hell do you know all this stuff? damn...you know too much for your own good.

...time to review histology then!

 

[DarksideAllstar]

How the hell do you know all this stuff? damn...you know too much for your own good.

...time to review histology then!

Based on my experience at UCSF, you don't need to have memorized Wheater's before you come in. 😉

 

[b&ierstiefel]

How the hell do you know all this stuff? damn...you know too much for your own good.

...time to review histology then!

I disagree with LA with respect to BWH. You don't need to have mastered histology before you come here. I certainly didn't.

 

[trent05]

After asking where else I interviewed, two of the faculty members rambled on and on about how great the other programs were. Then and one even talked about how he had recently interviewed at another program for a job and how bummed he was that he didn't get it. Made me think that some of the faculty were looking to leave.

I interviewed there a few years ago. One of the attendings asked me where else I was interviewing at. I listed off the programs. His exact response was "You interviewed at program X? Don't come here, you should go to program X". Funny thing is I ended up ranking program X #1. He also asked me how much the pathologists get paid at the program where I did my path elective. It was kind of different, but he was honest.

 

[deleted113029]

Based on my experience at UCSF, you don't need to have memorized Wheater's before you come in. 😉

I disagree with LA with respect to BWH. You don't need to have mastered histology before you come here. I certainly didn't.

phew! 🙂

i have the new Histo for Paths that i was planning on reading (who am i kidding? skimming is more likely) before residency, but to master that is a completely different story.

 

[djmd]

phew! 🙂

i have the new Histo for Paths that i was planning on reading (who am i kidding? skimming is more likely) before residency, but to master that is a completely different story.

I would never dig Histology for Pathologist, it is a great book. But do not think that pre-PGYI should be trying to read it. Really it is way to in depth, and in general goes into things that you almost never need to know. It a great reference when you need to look up some obscure normal histology. (e.g. ducts of Lushka)

Really a regular histology atlas and reviewing Robins, IF you insist on doing prereading... Which most people will tell you not to waste your time doing...

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Really a regular histology atlas and reviewing Robins, IF you insist on doing prereading... Which most people will tell you not to waste your time doing...

Yes it will be a waste of time. Just enjoy the time off and you'll start learning plenty when you start residency.

Plus Villin, we have a good series of summer teaching conferences where basic anatomy, basic histology, and basic diseases are presented.

 

[deleted113029]

Yes it will be a waste of time. Just enjoy the time off and you'll start learning plenty when you start residency.

Plus Villin, we have a good series of summer teaching conferences where basic anatomy, basic histology, and basic diseases are presented.

Thanks i appreciate the advice. Don't have to tell me twice to enjoy my time. (sorry to the OP for hijacking this thread.)

Bierstiefel...i owe you some drinks/appetizers when i get to boston.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Thanks i appreciate the advice. Don't have to tell me twice to enjoy my time. (sorry to the OP for hijacking this thread.)

Bierstiefel...i owe you some drinks/appetizers when i get to boston.

I'll tell you a third time...enjoy these next few months.

Drinks will be fine. I'm on a liquid diet.

 

[whournameiz]

thanx for the replies.

Do the UCs have score cutoffs for interviews? What are good numbers...or is this not so relevant.

Also, did anyone interview at the ucsd path program? Can you comment on the it.

Thanx

 

[deleted113029]

thanx for the replies.

Do the UCs have score cutoffs for interviews? What are good numbers...or is this not so relevant.

Also, did anyone interview at the ucsd path program? Can you comment on the it.

Thanx

i don't believe there are score cutoffs, but >220 should be safe.

do a search on ucsd, several people have commented on that program.

 

[LADoc00]

I disagree with LA with respect to BWH. You don't need to have mastered histology before you come here. I certainly didn't.

You dont need to know anything, but it is all about expectations. Umberto DiGirolami (think he is retired) and Doug Anthony at BWH definitely expected me to know neuroanatomy and histology. There wasnt a quick quaint discussion of what the difference between an oligo and astrocytoma was or subtley of differentiating edge of an infarct vs. glial neoplasm, it was all getting to know the grading criteria and diagnosing rare consult cases.

Davis is totally the opposite. They assumed you had no idea what leukocytoclastic vasculitis was or had never seen a biopsy of MS and you went through GUIDED STUDY SETS. I have been a "trainee" of sorts in more programs I can remember now, and NO ONE has done anything close to that.

Im not saying Davis>>>all, Im saying there are things every PD/Chairman could learn from the ways they do things there.

 

[JB101]

I interviewed at both schools this past year and researched them both; here are my impressions...

UCSD: Good program with Weidner head of AP. The program went out of their way to make sure you were able to talk to a lot of different residents (this can be rare; see below), and most of them were very happy with their lives. I met with Weidner, but after that I met mostly with CP people (chem and micro), which was a little rough b/c they couldn't answer a lot of my questions and I'm pretty weak on CP talk. Most residents said they were at UCSD either b/c they couple-matched or b/c they loved the weather in SD; no one really said anything about the program itself being good/bad. However, I did hear some serious dirt on the interview day that one of the attendings apparently "ran-off" a resident a year or two ago, not something I wanted to hear, but I don't have a lot of concrete details to share, just rumors. Good points: San Diego is fun, lots of sun, apartment living is not that expensive. Bad points: Buying in San Diego is almost impossible, very few fellowship opportunities (heme and neuro?) in the SD area (for more you have to go north to LA), very hard to get into a private group in the area (which means that you'll be moving again in 4yrs) and there is a 2pm conference everyday that, according to the residents I talked with, is apparently very disruptive to the workday (I agree--I like morning stuff). My overall impression was neutral--good training but hesitant b/c of the rumors I had heard on my interview day.

UCI: Program seems to be in serious transition. Last I heard they were still looking for someone to take over AP--they have tried to fill the spot several times but it keeps falling through (this from faculty at another program who almost took the job but then backed out). I only met 1 resident at lunch who was enthusiastic and nice, but he really was only about selling the program, didn't really give you much more information. It seems that in the past few yrs there have been several residents that have left after PGY1 or PGY2, and aside from one story I heard about someone not passing step 2, I don't know why they left. However, graduates from last year and current residents seem to get decent fellowships. The PD came off bizarrely; harassed me about why I wanted to go into path, didn't I think I was good enough for anything else, etc. Then, after I listed off all my path research, electives, etc, he played "good-cop" and reluctantly accepted I was really interested, but then proceeded to berate me once again when I said I was thinking about a career in academics--something about how applicants always say that b/c they think it will help them get in. Whatever--maybe he hears that a lot, but it was like an interrogation. In fact the whole interview day was odd; no formal sit-down and introduction of the program, and it was promptly over after lunch. You travel all that way and you only get 4 hours? Good: Nice people, I hear there are good specimens at UCI, and you get to do some of your training at a private hospital (in addition to a VA and the university hospital), which is good for getting an idea about private practice lifestyle. Bad: Program in transition, apartments and houses are outrageous in Orange County, they only have one fellowship (cyto) otherwise have to head up to LA/down to SD. My overall impression was neutral; not super interested in the program, but I could probably get decent training.

As for Step 1 cut-offs, I have heard that if you are >200 you will most likely get an interview if you have letters that describe you as "enthusiastic" about path. I know several residents in SoCal programs who scored <220 and matched at their first or second choices (and no one seems to care about step 2)

 

[mrp]

I was a resident, am currently a fellow, and will be an attending here at UCSD this July doing surg path. I don't want to engage in meaningless cheerleading-esque boosterism about the program. Obviously, I am biased (I like it here), and would like to see the program get good residents and prosper.

However, there is one thing I'd like to clarify that JB101 mentioned. Regarding the resident that left, I can't say much on a public forum like this, but characterizing it as "an attending ran off a resident" isn't really accurate. There were valid reasons for what happened. It was not just one attending who had issues with this resident. The resident in question chose to leave abruptly, without discussing it with our program director, and kind of left the program in the lurch. No one was forced to leave.

If anyone has any other questions about UCSD, I'd be happy to respond.

 

[Pork Chops]

Yo.

 

[LADoc00]

I was a resident, am currently a fellow, and will be an attending here at UCSD this July doing surg path. I don't want to engage in meaningless cheerleading-esque boosterism about the program. Obviously, I am biased (I like it here), and would like to see the program get good residents and prosper.

However, there is one thing I'd like to clarify that JB101 mentioned. Regarding the resident that left, I can't say much on a public forum like this, but characterizing it as "an attending ran off a resident" isn't really accurate. There were valid reasons for what happened. It was not just one attending who had issues with this resident. The resident in question chose to leave abruptly, without discussing it with our program director, and kind of left the program in the lurch. No one was forced to leave.

If anyone has any other questions about UCSD, I'd be happy to respond.

I always wondered: UCSD has an odd arrangement with Kaiser where they send people to, this in my experience is totally unique in California and well anywhere else in the country. Is this essentially to "track" UCSD people into KPorg or a method of offloading residents to a higher volume setting for periods of time? I really understand how this would work givent that KP is your natural competitor. Why would KP attendings spend the time with residents/fellows, whats the catch?

I did some poking around there years ago, talked to Noel etc. couldnt get a good feel for the system.

Where do most of the residents end up?

 

[mrp]

In the last 5-6 years or so, we've put 3 people at Kaiser, one resident/fellow and two fellows. And, the staff at Kaiser is full of prior UCSD residents (although some are very old school, all the way back from when the UCSD residency program was founded).

I don't think the KP people individually see UCSD as a competitor, at least I certainly didn't pick up this impression when I rotated there. They actually send over an occasional consult to NW. The attendings at Kaiser are reasonably enthusiastic about teaching the trainees, with some exceptions.

The UCSD fellow at Kaiser is expected to gross some when one of the two PA's is absent, but it really isn't too onerous. I had to gross probably 2-3 days the last month I was there. There are actually a lot of UCSD residents from various specialties that rotate through Kaiser as a whole. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the Kaiser departments are encouraged to be a least a little academic (or at least LOOK academic by having trainees there).

Whatever their reasons, they do pony up money every year for a fellowship spot.

I always wondered: UCSD has an odd arrangement with Kaiser where they send people to, this in my experience is totally unique in California and well anywhere else in the country. Is this essentially to "track" UCSD people into KPorg or a method of offloading residents to a higher volume setting for periods of time? I really understand how this would work givent that KP is your natural competitor. Why would KP attendings spend the time with residents/fellows, whats the catch?

I did some poking around there years ago, talked to Noel etc. couldnt get a good feel for the system.

Where do most of the residents end up?

 

[LADoc00]

Lots of UCSD people have ended up at KPorg, I ask then: Is that a good thing? Is that a selling point?

Im not being sarcastic, just curious what the opinions are.

 

[mrp]

A lot of people that do residency at UCSD end up wanting to stay in SD. So, they'll take whatever is available.

I know your opinions of KP, LA. But, you know, from what I've seen it looks like a pretty sweet gig. Maybe they don't get paid like the multimillionaire entrepreneur that you are, but they make a very comfortable living for not a ton of work and very little stress. One of the attendings over there once told me "I can't believe I get paid to do this" one day when we only had 2 or 3 trays of cases to sign out.

Personally, I did the fellowship to work with Weidner and do the hot seat rotation, not work at Kaiser. I was pretty bored over there. I actually managed to trade another fellow for an extra month of hot seat in exchange for my remaining month of KP.

 

[LADoc00]

A lot of people that do residency at UCSD end up wanting to stay in SD. So, they'll take whatever is available.

I know your opinions of KP, LA. But, you know, from what I've seen it looks like a pretty sweet gig. Maybe they don't get paid like the multimillionaire entrepreneur that you are, but they make a very comfortable living for not a ton of work and very little stress. One of the attendings over there once told me "I can't believe I get paid to do this" one day when we only had 2 or 3 trays of cases to sign out.

Personally, I did the fellowship to work with Weidner and do the hot seat rotation, not work at Kaiser. I was pretty bored over there. I actually managed to trade another fellow for an extra month of hot seat in exchange for my remaining month of KP.

Working at KP is a job. I see alot of pathologists sulk around at conferences with a sense of shame because others perceive they "sold out to the man" but hell we all sell out to the man in one form or another. If family is your no1 concern, maybe KPorg is way to go.

~Peace