California Psych Programs

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Leo Aquarius

Leo Aquarius

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I've been getting lots of private requests to discuss psych programs in California, so I'm starting a thread since the previous threads are from 2006 and 2007.


USC = county program near downtown Los Angeles, psych dept is in the basement of LA+USC Hospital, the faculty are good but not taken care of by the department as much as they should, students seem happy there but in the recent past were not pleased about having no moonlighting opptys but that might be changing this year. Ok didactics. Ok overall support. The culture there is hands-off, so only self-motivated residents learn anything and they made this clear on interview day.
Resident Morale: B
Location: B -
Program Guidance: B -
Therapy Training: B -
Academic Research: B -
Patient Diversity: A
Reputation in the Workforce: B
Overall: B

UCSD = emphasis is on prescribing medications, less on therapy. Very research oriented. Very dedicated and hands on leadership and PD, in a beautiful location of San Diego by the beach, recent hospital closures have diverted lots of patients into their clinics so residents in recent past felt overwhelmed by the work demands. You have to drive to different sites. Not much elective time in 4th year - rigid curriculum. Tiny Consult psych service. They specialize in addictions. Very VA heavy - lots of time spent in the VA. Parking for residents and staff is terrible.
Resident Morale: B+
Location: A -
Program Guidance: A
Therapy Training: C
Academic Research: A
Patient Diversity: B+
Reputation in the Workforce: A
Overall: A -

UCLA-NPI = large beautiful hospital, tons of research opportunitites, but VA heavy since all first year is spent there, upper-income patients, a wide variety of psych clinics in your 4th year, very supportive leadership, located in West LA only 10 min from the beach. Residents are happy overall, but complain they are worked super hard and don't get diverse patients. Faculty control patient management, so there's little autonomy. They interview only the top in the country (I was among them - my not-so-humble plug). You drive to different locations. Reputation is strong.
Resident Morale: A -
Location: A -
Program Guidance: A
Therapy Training: A
Academic Research: A
Patient Diversity: B
Reputation in the Workforce: A+
Overall: A

UCLA-Harbor = employers have said this program offers the best clinical training in Southern Cali. Residents work hard and see lots of patients, they come out ready for most any job (ok maybe not eating disorders). This is a county program with direct UCLA links and affiliation. Lots of C/L, lots of therapy training, lots of ER psych, good child and adolescent exposure. Tons of elective time in 4th year, including the psych clinics at UCLA-NPI. Leadership is very supportive, faculty are excellent teachers. Department sits on the top floor of the hospital with a beautiful view, along with neurology and the hospital director's office. Situated in Torrance, not a beautiful area but not as bad as downtown LA. 15 min from the beach. Therapy is emphasized early, starting 2nd year. Residents start seeing patients early, PGY2. Moonlighting starts PGY2 as well. Overall are happy and tight there. Family feel. Faculty let residents call the shots so autonomy is respected. Very diverse patient population, among the best county experiences you can find.
Resident Morale: A
Location: A -
Program Guidance: A
Therapy Training: A
Academic Research: B -
Patient Diversity: A
Reputation in the Workforce: A+
Overall: A

Stanford = research emphasis, and historically research focused. Trying to move away from that a bit into clinical emphasis. New leadership, difficult to say but seem very dedicated and supportive. Residents seem happy there. Exposure mostly to VA patients and upper-class clients who frequent Stanford Hospital. Lots of research. Beautiful location. Expensive area. Respectable reputation. A program for those wanting academic careers, but surprisingly many residents go off into private practice in and around Silicon Valley.
Resident Morale: A -
Location: A -
Program Guidance: A -
Therapy Training: B +
Academic Research: A
Patient Diversity: B
Reputation in the Workforce: A -
Overall: A -
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Leo Aquarius said:
I've been getting lots of private requests to discuss psych programs in California, so I'm starting a thread since the previous threads are from 2006 and 2007.


USC = county program near downtown Los Angeles, psych dept is in the basement of LA+USC Hospital, the faculty are good but not taken care of by the department as much as they should, students seem happy there but in the recent past were not pleased about having no moonlighting opptys but that might be changing this year. Ok didactics. Ok overall support. The culture there is hands-off, so only self-motivated residents learn anything and they made this clear on interview day.
Resident Morale: B
Location: B -
Program Guidance: B -
Therapy Training: B -
Academic Research: B -
Patient Diversity: A
Reputation in the Workforce: B
Overall: B

UCSD = emphasis is on prescribing medications, less on therapy. Very research oriented. Very dedicated and hands on leadership and PD, in a beautiful location of San Diego by the beach, recent hospital closures have diverted lots of patients into their clinics so residents in recent past felt overwhelmed by the work demands. You have to drive to different sites. Not much elective time in 4th year - rigid curriculum. Tiny Consult psych service. They specialize in addictions. Very VA heavy - lots of time spent in the VA. Parking for residents and staff is terrible.
Resident Morale: B+
Location: A -
Program Guidance: A
Therapy Training: C
Academic Research: A
Patient Diversity: B+
Reputation in the Workforce: A
Overall: A -

UCLA-NPI = large beautiful hospital, tons of research opportunitites, but VA heavy since all first year is spent there, upper-income patients, a wide variety of psych clinics in your 4th year, very supportive leadership, located in West LA only 10 min from the beach. Residents are happy overall, but complain they are worked super hard and don't get diverse patients. Faculty control patient management, so there's little autonomy. They interview only the top in the country (I was among them - my not-so-humble plug). You drive to different locations. Reputation is strong.
Resident Morale: A -
Location: A -
Program Guidance: A
Therapy Training: A
Academic Research: A
Patient Diversity: B
Reputation in the Workforce: A+
Overall: A

UCLA-Harbor = employers have said this program offers the best clinical training in Southern Cali. Residents work hard and see lots of patients, they come out ready for most any job (ok maybe not eating disorders). This is a country program with direct UCLA links and affiliation. Lots of C/L, lots of therapy training, lots of ER psych, good child and adolescent exposure. Tons of elective time in 4th year, including the psych clinics at UCLA-NPI. Leadership is very supportive, faculty are excellent teachers. Department sits on the top floor of the hospital with a beautiful view, along with neurology and the hospital director's office. Situated in Torrance, not a beautiful area but not as bad as downtown LA. 15 min from the beach. Therapy is emphasized early, starting 2nd year. Residents start seeing patients early, PGY2. Moonlighting starts PGY2 as well. Overall are happy and tight there. Family feel. Faculty let residents call the shots so autonomy is respected. Very diverse patient population, true county experience.
Resident Morale: A
Location: A -
Program Guidance: A
Therapy Training: A
Academic Research: B -
Patient Diversity: A
Reputation in the Workforce: A+
Overall: A

Stanford = research emphasis, and historically research focused. Trying to move away from that a bit into clinical emphasis. New leadership, difficult to say but seem very dedicated and supportive. Residents seem happy there. Exposure mostly to VA patients and upper-class clients who frequent Stanford Hospital. Lots of research. Beautiful location. Expensive area. Respectable reputation. A program for those wanting academic careers, but surprisingly many residents go off into private practice in and around Silicon Valley.
Resident Morale: A -
Location: A -
Program Guidance: A -
Therapy Training: B +
Academic Research: A
Patient Diversity: B
Reputation in the Workforce: A -
Overall: A -
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Thanks Leo for the West coast info, I read every detail!

I feel like SDN is always slanted towards East coast locations which makes me sad.
 
It would help if you put up your impressions of San Mateo County and UCSF.

I'd put in mine, but I don't want to muddy the water. I agree with your summaries for the most part but think you are an easier grading than I. Just for counterpoint's sake:

If you're considering a score of A as not having much room for improvement and C as average, I'd call:

USC: B-
(it's just slightly over your average program)

UCSD: B+
(great PD with vision, but their lack of elective time to specialize is a big knock and their fellowship opportunities are not an A-level program)

UCLA-NPI: A or maybe A-
(it's pretty much a model program, with a slight quibble I have about the fact that it's less public service skewed than many without as much county experience with the uninsured sick, who tend to be the sickest)

UCLA-Harbor: B+
(it's essentially an all-county program with elective rotations available at NPI. It's not as well-rounded as you'd want for an A-level program. That said, if you want to go the underserved/county route, it's among the best training in the country)

Stanford: B+
(again, some issues with diversity of training. The positive name-value reputation it bears has more to do with Stanford itself than the psych program. It's gone through a lot of changes lately, particularly focusing on more psychodynamic emphasis and a more well-rounded experience. You'll see it become an A- in the coming years, I reckon)

My issue is only with the grading. I think your summaries were spot on.
 
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UC Irvine = Despite it's name, you will not be working in beautiful affluent Irvine. Situated in Orange County, the UCI psych program keeps their residents driving around between the cities of Long Beach and Orange all 4 years. Residents seem happy but complain about having to finish clinic in Long Beach and then fighting notorious California traffic to reach the UCI Medical Center (located in Orange, not Irvine) for call. Call schedule is lighter than other CA programs, but with less call comes less training. Therapy training starts early, PGY2. Supervision is good, residents get mentors but that's true at most programs. Research is encouraged. PGY4 has lots of room for elective time. Clinics include schizophrenia, PTSD, CAP, mood disorders, not so much addictions, but nothing compared to the plethora or depth of the UCLA clinics NPI and Harbor have access to. Lots of time spent at Long Beach VA, maybe too much. Patient diversity is so-so. Not A-level fellowship here. All the long distance bouncing around gives it a C+ for location (UCSD has bouncing around but within a small more manageable area). UC Irvine is the UC school thats the new kid on the block trying hard to be the best kid.
Resident Morale: A -
Location: C+
Program Guidance: A -
Therapy Training: A -
Academic Research: B +
Patient Diversity: B
Reputation in the Workforce: B +
Overall: B +

UCSF = With a progressive curriculum, UCSF offers many diverse settings in a hospital system that is massive. You will get exposure to just about everything. They offer A-level fellowships as well in many fields of psych. Your training will be excellent. On the other hand, residents are stressed. Call is on the heavier side for a CA program, required in all 4 years. Faculty is excellent. Location is in beautiful San Francisco. Reputation is strong. This is another program tailor-made for academic careers. You can't go wrong here. One funny thing I've heard is about how resident offices are placed in the middle and faculty have offices all around them. Maybe things have changed. Anyhow, it's a superb program, but it's the opposite of a low-key culture. Lot's of pressure there because, after all, it's UCSF and excellence is always expected in a way that makes everyone a tad anxious to work there but everyone pretends they don't feel it.
Resident Morale: B +
Location: A
Program Guidance: A
Therapy Training: A -
Academic Research: A
Patient Diversity: B +
Reputation in the Workforce: A
Overall: A

Loma Linda = Crickets. I wish I could say something about this program, but nobody has heard a peep from them. When I applied, they never responded, no interview offer, no rejection notice, not even confirmation of application material received. The same thing happened to my colleagues. It's crickets over there. Not even sure the program still exists. Thus, I know nothing about this program. Anyone else?
Resident Morale: ?
Location: ?
Program Guidance: ?
Therapy Training: ?
Academic Research: ?
Patient Diversity: ?
Reputation in the Workforce: ?
Overall: ?

*My grading system is relative to only CA programs where A = really strong, B = pretty decent, C = avoid.

Splik may have a more strict grading profile for UCI.
 
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That's all for now... maybe Davis, San Mateo and SFV later.
 
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People are asking me if I could pick any program which one I would choose.

Definitely one of the UCLA programs or UCSF. The programs are excellent, and outside of California these have the biggest names. It's like the Harvard effect, where you can attend any of the Harvard programs but to the rest of the world you went to Harvard. Same thing with UCLA. There's no distinction outside Cali, and I think that's totally justified since NPI and Harbor residents are truly UCLA students. I know residents from these programs and they say employers eagerly seek them out no matter where they go. They even had offers from Japan and New Zealand before they graduated. I hope this helps those who were asking. Thanks!
 
Anyone knows which of these programs sponsor H1 visas for IMGs?
 
TheRiddler said:
Would be helpful if you did one for Davis. I hear it's an up and coming program, any truth to that?
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Davis is a very strong program. I don't think I'd refer to it as "up and coming" as much as "hidden gem."

In California programs, psychotherapy is not typically as big an emphasis as the top Boston/NY programs. UCSF is probably the main exception to this (former analyst who built the department, lots of analyst faculty, very dedicated to psychotherapy hours/didactics/supervision, involved with two psychoanalytic institutes) and UCSF attracts a pretty psychotherapy-interested resident body. If you were to rank strength of psychotheray training it would fall down to UCSF >>> UCLA-NPI and UC Davis > UCLA-Harbor >>>>> the rest.

So psychotherapy is a strength at Davis greater than the size of the program, with lots of good support and outpatient treatment. Their inpatient exposure is not as strong as others (due to budgetary issues much more than faculty strength). If you're interesed in forensics, it has one of the strongest fellowships in the country for it and you have opportunities to get involved as a resident (you have set rotations in the Sac Co Jail with foresnic faculty). Good child program, particularly for autism. Research opportunities are less than larger academic programs in CA, but more individual attention if you are so inclined. It's a fairly flexible program in residents carving out what they would like.

I ranked Davis a lot higher than I expected. If you put this program on the coast, it would have a whole different level of competition (Sacramento can be an acquired taste).
 
notdeadyet said:
In California programs, psychotherapy is not typically as big an emphasis as the top Boston/NY programs.
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IMO, do not expect to do all your psychotherapy training during residency. You should be getting the foundation and maybe competency+ in 1-2 areas, with the goal of preparing yourself for ongoing learning after residency. Most institutions in CA have good therapy resources but you have to prioritize it along the way and make sure you use the resources available.
 
nitemagi said:
IMO, do not expect to do all your psychotherapy training during residency.
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agreed....there is no way I feel like I could do very good therapy(like weekly 1 hr sessions that arent mostly supportive in nature) that patients would want to pay good money for without additional training or a lot more work.
 
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nitemagi said:
IMO, do not expect to do all your psychotherapy training during residency. You should be getting the foundation and maybe competency+ in 1-2 areas, with the goal of preparing yourself for ongoing learning after residency.
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Agreed. The reason that I think good therapy training is important in residency is one things I've noticed is that folks who tend to do the most therapy in residency are those that continue to do therapy after residency. If you have a hankering for it, selecting a program that has good therapy training will give a good, structured, supervised foundation you can build on later.
 
Was just browsing the Frieda site trying to rough draft my application list and saw a brand new program listed in Visalia. Nice website. Good salary, good benefits, cheap rent. Idk does anybody know anything about it?

Edit: following up my own question with more information. Visalia is smaller town ~120K, 45 minutes drive SE of Fresno. Good property/rental rates. Safe, good family raising type of town.

The program is affiliated with irvine and it seems like academic collaboration will be extensive. The program director seems particularly well qualified with good credentials and a passion for education--which would seem requisite for starting a program. Other faculty are surprisingly diverse and impressive.

Interestingly they've rolled out 2 other programs--family and EM last year. And this coming year--our class, 2014--they'll be adding their inaugural psych class of residents, 4 in total.

I'm pretty intrigued by this program. How many of us in history could say they were part of an inaugural class. Able to participate in building the program as it grows with each us sequent class. I mean if you have an interest in being an academic psychiatrist or a program director or something like that it seems like this experience would be amazingly unique.

My instincts watching a video and reading about this director is that he would be an amazing mentor.

I just spent a couple of hours on the site. Definitely intriguing for a variety of reasons.

Would love to here any insights of others.
 
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Abider said:
Was just browsing the Frieda site trying to rough draft my application list and saw a brand new program listed in Visalia. Nice website. Good salary, good benefits, cheap rent. Idk does anybody know anything about it?

Edit: following up my own question with more information. Visalia is smaller town ~120K, 45 minutes drive SE of Fresno. Good property/rental rates. Safe, good family raising type of town.

The program is affiliated with irvine and it seems like academic collaboration will be extensive. The program director seems particularly well qualified with good credentials and a passion for education--which would seem requisite for starting a program. Other faculty are surprisingly diverse and impressive.

Interestingly they've rolled out 2 other programs--family and EM last year. And this coming year--our class, 2014--they'll be adding their inaugural psych class of residents, 4 in total.

I'm pretty intrigued by this program. How many of us in history could say they were part of an inaugural class. Able to participate in building the program as it grows with each us sequent class. I mean if you have an interest in being an academic psychiatrist or a program director or something like that it seems like this experience would be amazingly unique.

My instincts watching a video and reading about this director is that he would be an amazing mentor.

I just spent a couple of hours on the site. Definitely intriguing for a variety of reasons.

Would love to here any insights of others.
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I browsed the website (admittedly, briefly). Solid credentials for the program director. It's very rural, if you're ok with that. I'm underwhelmed by the therapy training. The therapy training director is an FMG only 2 years out of residency, which means probably she is decent at maybe 1 form of therapy, maybe 2, if that.

And though many programs listed above aren't "Heavy" in psychotherapy, many have good supervisors available if you pursue it, in a variety of therapy disciplines. That will probably not be the case here.

While it's fine to want to be there as an inaugural class, you also have to recognize you will be the test subjects as they work out all the bugs of the program, which there will be a lot. Every residency of course has its problems, but in this you'll be going in a little blind, with no established precedent as to how the program functions.
 
nitemagi said:
I browsed the website (admittedly, briefly). Solid credentials for the program director. It's very rural, if you're ok with that. I'm underwhelmed by the therapy training. The therapy training director is an FMG only 2 years out of residency, which means probably she is decent at maybe 1 form of therapy, maybe 2, if that.

And though many programs listed above aren't "Heavy" in psychotherapy, many have good supervisors available if you pursue it, in a variety of therapy disciplines. That will probably not be the case here.

While it's fine to want to be there as an inaugural class, you also have to recognize you will be the test subjects as they work out all the bugs of the program, which there will be a lot. Every residency of course has its problems, but in this you'll be going in a little blind, with no established precedent as to how the program functions.
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Appreciate the therapy insight. That's an interest for me. I think my home program is so weak in therapy that I don't know what it looks like.

I'm also interested in forensics though, and the PD is a forensics guy, so...

But yeah, the flying blind thing would be unsettling to some. But my instincts for that situation is one of opportunity. Because medical students have a docile, unadventurous inclincation you have the potential for creative, energetic people willing to offer a resident a unique deal, that if sensed correctly might include extra support, investment in your success, and good financial recruiting incentives.

2800 per weekend for inhouse moonlighting as a 3rd and 4th year. How common is that?! Because that means house ownership instead of rent for the 1st time in my life.
 
San Mateo BHRS = This is a very unique program, hence the long review. It has very strong clinical training and loads of autonomy with patient care. This program is an experiment in treating residents humanely, good for the active learners, and from my experience produces some truly amazing clinicians. Program basics: No call (used to have call in PGY1 but that has changed). Moonlighting is considered call at SM and starting PGY2 you can start moonlighting in the PES or inpatient unit at the hospital, attending backup is provided by phone (yes attendings are compensated for this, and so are you). PGY1 is like every other program, except you get your weekends off (unless your at Stanford). PGY2-4 you have 1/2 time outpatient clinic and 1/2 time everything else. A day per week dedicated to small group didactics, journal club, case conference ... etc (protected time). Psychotherapy training here is taken very very seriously and quite a bit of time is dedicated towards it. Residency is not resident dependent so if you are out sick your attending covers your patients, not a fellow resident... this way you can all go to the same conferences. You rotate through UCSF, Stanford, Kaiser hospitals and of course San Mateo County System, No VA though. The gift of this residency is the flexibility... if you plan ahead you can pretty much choose your own adventure in terms of the unique experiences you want... which for some is a frightening thought and for others is a breath of fresh air. Compared to a large academic center there is little research going on, however residents are given ample opportunity and encouraged to create practical programs for our patients that will benefit them (i.e. creating step down facilities, QI/QA, groups, educational modules...etc) and there is a required poster presentation each year... Also there is a lot of time to explore research opportunities at Stanford/UCSF... No basic science labs onsite though. This is an amazing program for someone who wants to create social/community based programs, specialize in psychotherapy, psychiatric education, or do patient centered research or projects (QI/QA). It has always sent people to top fellowships (harvard, ucsf, stanford... etc) or helped them to get great jobs depending on your interest. We got a new PD last year and she is wonderful and very supportive of residents playing an active role in their education and shaping their own experience... If you are set on becoming an academic professor and/or NIMH basic scientist then yeah this residency is probably not for you, but for the rest of us... It is important to look into.

Resident Morale: A
Location: A
Program Guidance: A -
Therapy Training: A +
Academic Research: B -
Patient Diversity: A
Reputation in the Workforce: B (if your in academics) A (if your in county)
Overall: A for some and solid B for others depending on career choice
 
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organic32 said:
San Mateo BHRS = This is a very unique program, hence the long review. It has very strong clinical training and loads of autonomy with patient care. This program is an experiment in treating residents humanely, good for the active learners, and from my experience produces some truly amazing clinicians. Program basics: No call (used to have call in PGY1 but that has changed). Moonlighting is considered call at SM and starting PGY2 you can start moonlighting in the PES or inpatient unit at the hospital, attending backup is provided by phone (yes attendings are compensated for this, and so are you). PGY1 is like every other program, except you get your weekends off (unless your at Stanford). PGY2-4 you have 1/2 time outpatient clinic and 1/2 time everything else. A day per week dedicated to small group didactics, journal club, case conference ... etc (protected time). Psychotherapy training here is taken very very seriously and quite a bit of time is dedicated towards it. Residency is not resident dependent so if you are out sick your attending covers your patients, not a fellow resident... this way you can all go to the same conferences. You rotate through UCSF, Stanford, Kaiser hospitals and of course San Mateo County System, No VA though. The gift of this residency is the flexibility... if you plan ahead you can pretty much choose your own adventure in terms of the unique experiences you want... which for some is a frightening thought and for others is a breath of fresh air. Compared to a large academic center there is little research going on, however residents are given ample opportunity and encouraged to create practical programs for our patients that will benefit them (i.e. creating step down facilities, QI/QA, groups, educational modules...etc) and there is a required poster presentation each year... Also there is a lot of time to explore research opportunities at Stanford/UCSF... No basic science labs onsite though. This is an amazing program for someone who wants to create social/community based programs, specialize in psychotherapy, psychiatric education, or do patient centered research or projects (QI/QA). It has always sent people to top fellowships (harvard, ucsf, stanford... etc) or helped them to get great jobs depending on your interest. We got a new PD last year and she is wonderful and very supportive of residents playing an active role in their education and shaping their own experience... If you are set on becoming an academic professor and/or NIMH basic scientist then yeah this residency is probably not for you, but for the rest of us... It is important to look into.

Resident Morale: A
Location: A
Program Guidance: A -
Therapy Training: A +
Academic Research: B -
Patient Diversity: A
Reputation in the Workforce: B (if your in academics) A (if your in county)
Overall: A for some and solid B for others depending on career choice
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Based on the wording, I strongly suspect this post was written by one of my colleagues! I am a current San Mateo resident, and I would agree with essentially everything listed above about my program. As a resident here, I have actually had the time and flexibility to do find a research mentor and work with them, and while it is true that certain types of research would probably be more easily done at a major academic center, I have had more time for clinical research experiences than some of my friends at other programs as a result of our program's flexibility. I actually think this program could still be a wonderful choice for someone who wants to someday be an academic professor, as many major academic institutions are becoming more interested in community psychiatry and public mental health.
 
Leo Aquarius said:
Loma Linda = Crickets. I wish I could say something about this program, but nobody has heard a peep from them. When I applied, they never responded, no interview offer, no rejection notice, not even confirmation of application material received. The same thing happened to my colleagues. It's crickets over there. Not even sure the program still exists. Thus, I know nothing about this program. Anyone else?
Resident Morale: ?
Location: ?
Program Guidance: ?
Therapy Training: ?
Academic Research: ?
Patient Diversity: ?
Reputation in the Workforce: ?
Overall: ?
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I don't know enough about other programs in California at this point to be able to give a relative grade, but I can tell you some general info about the program. For more detailed info, see my post in this thread.

Academic program at an Adventst university about an hour east of Los Angeles. Heavy patient load makes for excellent clinical training but can be draining. Busy call schedule. Faculty are down-to-earth and approachable but few are fellowship trained, most are themselves graduates of Loma Linda so can feel inbred at times. Little to no academic opportunities available for all except the most self-starting. Wide patient diversity. Residents work hard but seem happy, incredibly cohesive with family feel. Unremarkable didactics. Balanced between psychopharm and therapy. Heavy training in Child/Adolescent despite lack of official fellowship. No forensics but working on it. Newly built facilities are nice with easy parking. Graduates have strong clinical reputation in the area. PD recently left so a transition time, but new PD and associate are highly talked of by residents.
 
I want to wish everyone the very best for those ranking California programs. Here's a quick summary to help you guys rank:

Stanford - very academic, friendly residents, expensive area, great reputation, one of the top C&A fellowships
UCLA-Harbor - great training and reputation in the community, you will see the real sick patients, lots of volume, very down-to-earth, fun residents, amazing ER experience, resident autonomy, great call and moonlighting opptys
UCLA-NPI - great academic reputation, great research, less autonomy, you work really hard, ties to West Hollywood, very supportive faculty, a plethora of clinics, great moonlighting, top notch fellowships
UCSD - very biological, good academic reputation, by the beach, different sites, lots of hard work here, less flexible in 4th year, access to top neurobiologic research at Scripps
Davis - great overall program, good reputation, great training, strong forensics
Irvine - good training, not anything special beyond SoCal, nice buildings, nice city, some research opptys
USC - you need initiative to make it a great learning experience, faculty are not completely happy, large class size
UCSF - strong in just about every area of psych, great program, great reputation, tons of research, lots of clinics

* You can achieve a great training experience at any one of these programs. Go where you will thrive the most.
 
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Would anyone care to comment on the new program at UC Riverside?
 
smile33 said:
Any comments on UCLA-SFV/VA program?
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I liked that program. Good moonlighting. Good clinical experience. Liked the residents. Not the biggest fan of LA and driving, so dropped it to the middle of my rank list, but not because of anything else. If you're an LA person it's a great option if you don't match at the big name places.
 
I wish I were at a program with no call, poor life choices…

PistolPete said:
Heard their chair is excellent (came over from UC Irvine) and that they have no call but otherwise can't comment on the quality of the program.
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Update:

USC is in some turmoil among it's leadership, and it's affecting the residents this year who are not happy campers.

UCIrvine is also in some turmoil and several faculty in it's Adult Psych program have bailed (I think the Child & Adolescent Program is more stable). I would avoid these 2 programs for a couple years until the dust settles. In fact, other SoCal programs have inherited strong faculty from these two programs for the past couple years. That should tell ya something.
 
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Leo Aquarius said:
Update:

USC is in some turmoil among it's leadership, and it's affecting the residents this year who are not happy campers.

UCIrvine is also in some turmoil and several faculty in it's Child & Adolescent Psych program have bailed. I would avoid these 2 programs for a couple years until the dust settles. In fact, other SoCal programs have inherited strong faculty from these two programs for the past couple years. That should tell ya something.
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There's truth to this. Don't know much about USC but I know Dr. Maguirre now at UC-Riverside (was former UCI chair).
 
Leo Aquarius said:
Update:

USC is in some turmoil among it's leadership, and it's affecting the residents this year who are not happy campers.

UCIrvine is also in some turmoil and several faculty in it's Adult Psych program have bailed (I think the Child & Adolescent Program is more stable). I would avoid these 2 programs for a couple years until the dust settles. In fact, other SoCal programs have inherited strong faculty from these two programs for the past couple years. That should tell ya something.
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Yes please avoid programs due to random rumors on SDN, makes more room for other candidates.
 
enoughsaid12 said:
Yes please avoid programs due to random rumors on SDN, makes more room for other candidates.
Click to expand...

Rumors? Okay, call my bluff. Long time posters know me and know I share very insightful information. Who the heck are you enoughsaid12? [Nobody. You just joined. 1 post. We should doubt you.] You're not worth my breath.

I'm calling on all applicants to simply ask questions. If you are on the interview trail, all you have to do is ask the people interviewing you "So, how many faculty have left your program over the past 3 or 4 years?"

#1. I don't lie, and my sources are people close to these programs.
#2. You can always call my bluff because I never post something that isn't defensible. Feel free to challenge anything I write because that's how you will see that I'm revealing facts, not rumors.

My advice: ask "So, how many faculty have left your program over the past 3 or 4 years?"
 
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. I thought it was time someone called out bad advice on this forum. These grades people give to programs have no real legitimacy. All these residency programs are generally the same. They all have to meet a set of requirements in order to exist. Whether a program is for you depends more on the individual.

People get way to hung up on arbitrary things like call schedules, faculty issues, and time spent on certain rotations. You aren't in high school anymore, If you want to learn, you'll be able to.

Faculty changes don't say a whole lot about the program, faculty come and go for a multitude of reasons.

Lastly, this is psychiatry, not general surgery. It is a buyers market, go where you will be happy, not becomes some joker on SDN says one program is better than another or because of some name.
 
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Leo Aquarius and enoughsaid appear to be arguing, but they are both more right than wrong. A few junior attendings leaving can be no big deal, but an acting chairman lacks the school’s nod and will never have the negotiating power of a full chair when dealing with deans. Ask why did the last training director leave? Did they move up into administration, or did the last three last an average of 2 years and go into practice? Did the last chairman retire at age 70 and had an impressive faculty, or did it not work out? Sometimes getting rid of dead wood is healthy and can lead to a stronger program, but in general, turmoil is not good for training. It is a lot like the NFL, a new coach seldom wins the super bowl, but a few building years can lead to improvement in teams that have become complacent. There are always a lot of hidden details that even the faculty are not fully aware of. Sometimes the best opportunities for negotiations with the deans come when a new chair is being courted into a program. Resources can be infused into programs that have been undernourished for a long time. This is seldom the case when a chair search fails and the school regroups and announces an “interim” leadership. Often, the interm chair will grow into getting the job and it is just a matter of seniority seasoning. Even the most talented chairs where young at some point in their lives. That being said, it is safe to say that a lot of change is generally a bad thing for training.

On the other hand, these forums have a lot of selection bias. Many people read them and stay silent. Those with axes to grind get typing and vent vitriol that is a highly personalize appraisal of the programs they are talking about (not you Leo). Programs are often more similar than different. That is why geography isn’t such a bad criteria. So what if one program has 10% more call than the other? Is that going to matter that much ten years from now? Look for who you like and where you like and make sure the program isn’t a compete basket case. You will be fine and learn enough if you keep your end of the learning contract and read and absorb the information your mentors have to offer. All teachers have something to offer and some areas that they are not good at. Just make sure that your village is large enough to raise you and that the work offers enough variety of learning.
 
I really liked UCLA-SFV and the area is quite family friendly IMO.

I was wondering if anyone could give some input as to UCLA-Kern? Bakersfield is a reasonable area to buy a home but its not exactly up and coming. However, how is the training? seems quite IMG friendly, is a sweatshop for work?

Also, any thoughts on kaweah delta?
 
Leo Aquarius said:
I'm calling on all applicants to simply ask questions. If you are on the interview trail, all you have to do is ask the people interviewing you "So, how many faculty have left your program over the past 3 or 4 years?"
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I get your point, Leo, but I'd give this advice with a healthy dose of caution.

If an applicant asks this question, she'll get the answer "none" or "three" or "five" or "ten." Your average applicant doesn't know what to do with this. Ten departures over 4 years doesn't mean much in a program that is very large and/or is in an area with an extremely high salary differential. Not everyone makes a career in academics and an amount of turnover is not just expected but healthy. What's that magic number? You can't generalize.

I agree that programs in which people are leaving in droves can be a bad sign, but without more familiarity with the market and program than most appplicants will have, it's not particularly useful information.
 
The valley is definitely not for everyone. The horrible heat and the VA patients are something else. UCLA-SFV is not on my top choices.
 
Super relaxed is the last adjective I'd use for Semel. First, they've had 2 residents commit suicide in the past (not recently though). Their current PGY2 class had a resident quit (and filled since). Second, they have a very demanding work schedule, especially their first 2 years (and very especially as an intern). Third, they bring on board very talented and diverse residents with interesting backgrounds. Don't let that fool you into thinking the place - not the residents - must be super cool and laid back. No. NPI works you hard.
 
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If you want more relaxed than others in CA, then look at San Mateo.
 
Leo Aquarius said:
Super relaxed is the last adjective I'd use for Semel. First, they've had 2 residents commit suicide in the past (not recently though). Their current PGY2 class had a resident quit (and filled since). Second, they have a very demanding work schedule, especially their first 2 years (and very especially as an intern). Third, they bring on board very talented and diverse residents with interesting backgrounds. Don't let that fool you into thinking the place - not the residents - must be super cool and laid back. No. NPI works you hard.
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Would you say that the strong work ethic comparison is true between NPI and Harbor? Do the Harbor track residents support this?
 
Both NPI and Harbor will demand hard work, and there's no secret about that. The rumors are true. You work hard at Harbor and NPI, more so than your average program. I do think there's more scutwork at NPI however in PGY1 and 2.
 
Any general thoughts on UCLA-Kern? I know its location in Bakersfield leaves a bit to be desired for most people but I don't know that much about the program.
 
From what I recall SFV was extremely VA heavy so you may not get a well rounded experience imho.
 
SFV is a good program. They do care about therapy training and strike a decent balance at that, and they offer fellowships in Geri, Addictions, CL, and Community Psych. Decent Psych ER exposure too, but does not rival the Harbor experience. The only caveat is that the VA heavy focus skews your exposure to things you'd typically see at a VA (along with a gender bias as most VA patients are male). Could use some more outpatient exposure beyond the uninsured. NPI is king of outpatient training of all SoCal programs. Harbor gets around the uninsured emphasis by offering rotations at NPI.
 
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Figured I would bump this with all the recent threads asking about the California programs. It helped me a lot when I applied. Obviously the grades themselves are subjective but I think at least the descriptions of the programs are very useful. Maybe people have updates given how some of the programs went through some big changes recently, such as USC and Irvine with new chairs/PDs, and UCLA-NPI's and UCSD's long-standing PD's retiring soon (if they haven't already).
 
Both UCLA-NPI and UCSD's PDs retired and were replaced by fantastic psychiatrists. I know them both personally and they're going to be great to train under.
 
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